Deep down, we all know that peace is best

[Lipush]

It's an opinion thread. People have the right to express their opinion. Much more ridiculous threats were created here, anyway.

His opinion was disingenuous.

People who want peace will do what it takes to get it. People who don't, will keep playing these bullshit little word games designed to cleanse any blame on the Israeli's.

That's absurd.

Peace means compromise. Peace means that you have to take painful actions and sometimes give up in order to get it.

What I see is that Israel released dozens of prisoners. It overlooked the bombing in central Israel and didn't give up on the negotiation. Netanyahu refused to brush off the plea to release prisoners and he lets the Americans to continue and pressure him.

Now answer me honestly, what were the things that the Palestinians gave us in this negotiation? what were their "painful give-ups?" enlighten me, I can't see any

 

[Lipush]

You were also been blamed here for hypocrisy. You asked why. I didn't know if you were given an answer to that, but IMHO, since you non-stop praise the Israeli radical leftist-movement, which is the most hypocrite one of all, It's just a conclusion that you're also 'touched' by the later.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I apologize for being so 'dense'.

I do not understand that answer.

Can you elaborate upon that?

Never mind the 'duh' emoticons, Tinny.

What the heck does 'because illegal is the only way they can fly' mean in this context?

Why did the US, the UK, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, et al, decide to back Fatah rather than Hamas?

Plain speech would be best here, Tinny.

Not metaphors from left field.

Plain speech.

You really do not follow this conflict, do you?

Otherwise I would not have to go back to square one on things you should know.

 

[P F Tinmore]

It's an opinion thread. People have the right to express their opinion. Much more ridiculous threats were created here, anyway.

His opinion was disingenuous.

People who want peace will do what it takes to get it. People who don't, will keep playing these bullshit little word games designed to cleanse any blame on the Israeli's.

That's absurd.

Peace means compromise. Peace means that you have to take painful actions and sometimes give up in order to get it.

What I see is that Israel released dozens of prisoners. It overlooked the bombing in central Israel and didn't give up on the negotiation. Netanyahu refused to brush off the plea to release prisoners and he lets the Americans to continue and pressure him.

Now answer me honestly, what were the things that the Palestinians gave us in this negotiation? what were their "painful give-ups?" enlighten me, I can't see any

Starting with the 1967 borders already cedes 78% of Palestine to Israel. And the Palestinians are expected to compromise on the little they have left.

 

[Lipush]

His opinion was disingenuous.

People who want peace will do what it takes to get it. People who don't, will keep playing these bullshit little word games designed to cleanse any blame on the Israeli's.

That's absurd.

Peace means compromise. Peace means that you have to take painful actions and sometimes give up in order to get it.

What I see is that Israel released dozens of prisoners. It overlooked the bombing in central Israel and didn't give up on the negotiation. Netanyahu refused to brush off the plea to release prisoners and he lets the Americans to continue and pressure him.

Now answer me honestly, what were the things that the Palestinians gave us in this negotiation? what were their "painful give-ups?" enlighten me, I can't see any

Starting with the 1967 borders already cedes 78% of Palestine to Israel. And the Palestinians are expected to compromise on the little they have left.

101 negotiation class.

It's not a negotiation when one side only gives and the other side only gets.

Why would Israel do anything more for the Palestinians when we receive nothing in return.

 

[Lipush]

And 78%? I wonder how you calculated this incredibly amusing number.

It's correct but the other way around.

Starting 1967, the Jews lose about 80% of the original ancient Israel.

You yet expect us to give up more?

 

[Kondor3]

Never mind the 'duh' emoticons, Tinny.

What the heck does 'because illegal is the only way they can fly' mean in this context?

Why did the US, the UK, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, et al, decide to back Fatah rather than Hamas?

Plain speech would be best here, Tinny.

Not metaphors from left field.

Plain speech.

You really do not follow this conflict, do you?

Otherwise I would not have to go back to square one on things you should know.

Stop evading the question, Tinny.

Why would the US, UK, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, et al, back Fatah rather than Hamas?

The two most obvious answers are simple one-liners.

Do you know what these are?

Motives are very important.

Your tone concerning US backing of Fatah over Hamas is condemnatory.

In order to condemn, one must understand motives, and then discount those motives as sufficiently unimportant so as to justify the action.

In order to lend credibility to your condemnation of the US for siding with Fatah over Hamas...

It is appropriate to outline the motives behind such taking-of-sides...

So, the question stands...

Why does the US, UK, Israel, Egypt and Jordan side with Fatah rather than Hamas?

I know the answers.

Chance are, you do too.

But you're the one condemning the US for such a stance.

In order to condemn, one must understand WHY the US et all took that position.

You're not educating me.

You're demonstrating your mastery of knowledge of the situation for the benefit of those in the audience who might not yet understand, and to lend credibility to your condemnation of the US for taking such a stance...

Why, Tinny?

In your own words, using your own thoughts, and not somebody else's cut-and-paste.

Why does the US, UK, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, et al, side with Fatah, rather than Hamas?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Never mind the 'duh' emoticons, Tinny.

What the heck does 'because illegal is the only way they can fly' mean in this context?

Why did the US, the UK, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, et al, decide to back Fatah rather than Hamas?

Plain speech would be best here, Tinny.

Not metaphors from left field.

Plain speech.

You really do not follow this conflict, do you?

Otherwise I would not have to go back to square one on things you should know.

Gaza – Two decades ago, Yasser Arafat and Yitzhak Rabin grabbed each other’s hands on the White House lawn in Washington DC. They celebrated the birth of the Oslo Declaration of Principles. However, Oslo was not the latest step in the national liberation project launched by Yasser Arafat in 1960, aiming for "revolution until victory." It was to put an end to that revolution and remove the term “victory” from the Palestine Liberation Organization's (PLO) dictionary, replacing it with "permanent defeat."

The defeat was called a "transitional self-authority" over the territories of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Occupied Jerusalem and the interior of Palestine were not covered. At that time, the PLO’s thoughts did not go beyond peaceful coexistence and a just and comprehensive solution. It was no longer the time or place for arms. All efforts were dedicated to building the state before achieving liberation.

Institutions were built and a Palestinian police force was formed to protect security and internal order in the lands occupied in 1967. Oslo provided the Israeli enemy the full right to self-defense. This was without any objection from the Palestinian side, which supported and entrenched these measures, transforming itself into a tool in the hands of the enemy to disarm the resistance in areas under its control.

Two Decades After Oslo: The Agreement That Uprooted Palestine | Al Akhbar English

 

[Kondor3]

My own contribution...

Obvious answers...

1. Hamas is identified by many countries (the US included) as a 'Terrorist Organization'.

2. Hamas' hard-line stance against Israel and related intransigence precludes negotiating any meaningful and lasting Peace with them.

When you have an uncompromising enemy that is unwilling to consider concluding a lasting peace on any terms but their own, and when that enemy has a demonstrable history in perpetrating acts of terrorism on an international scale, folks tend to shy-away from backing such miscreants, and, instead, back a more reasonable alternative, if that exists.

----------

Using my own words and my own thoughts, and not a lick of cut-and-paste.

 

[proudveteran06]

Never mind the 'duh' emoticons, Tinny.

What the heck does 'because illegal is the only way they can fly' mean in this context?

Why did the US, the UK, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, et al, decide to back Fatah rather than Hamas?

Plain speech would be best here, Tinny.

Not metaphors from left field.

Plain speech.

You really do not follow this conflict, do you?

Otherwise I would not have to go back to square one on things you should know.

Gaza – Two decades ago, Yasser Arafat and Yitzhak Rabin grabbed each other’s hands on the White House lawn in Washington DC. They celebrated the birth of the Oslo Declaration of Principles. However, Oslo was not the latest step in the national liberation project launched by Yasser Arafat in 1960, aiming for "revolution until victory." It was to put an end to that revolution and remove the term “victory” from the Palestine Liberation Organization's (PLO) dictionary, replacing it with "permanent defeat."

The defeat was called a "transitional self-authority" over the territories of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Occupied Jerusalem and the interior of Palestine were not covered. At that time, the PLO’s thoughts did not go beyond peaceful coexistence and a just and comprehensive solution. It was no longer the time or place for arms. All efforts were dedicated to building the state before achieving liberation.

Institutions were built and a Palestinian police force was formed to protect security and internal order in the lands occupied in 1967. Oslo provided the Israeli enemy the full right to self-defense. This was without any objection from the Palestinian side, which supported and entrenched these measures, transforming itself into a tool in the hands of the enemy to disarm the resistance in areas under its control.

Two Decades After Oslo: The Agreement That Uprooted Palestine | Al Akhbar English

I love those words ; " Just and comphrensive Solution" lol That means the Palestinians can go anywhere they want inside and outside of the " borders" but the Israelis can't? That will never happen.


Is the Arab Peace Plan Really About Peace? « Commentary Magazine


I propose that the Arab summit put forward a clear and unanimous initiative addressed to the United Nations security council based on two basic issues: normal relations and security for Israel in exchange for full withdrawal from all occupied Arab territories, recognition of an independent Palestinian state with al-Quds al-Sharif as its capital, and the return of refugees.

It should be conceded that this is better than the famous “three no’s” enforced throughout the Arab world in the aftermath of the 1967 Six-Day War, when Muslim countries said they would not make peace, recognize or negotiate with Israel. But the effect is not all that different. The Arab League proposal envisions normal relations with an Israel that has been forced to retreat from all territories it won in a defensive war in 1967. But the Israel they want to make peace with is one that would be forced to accept millions of Arabs who would change it from a Jewish nation into yet another Arab one.

Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state | Reuters


Let them keep insisting; The " palestinian state" is DOA !

 

[Phoenall]

What does Jordan have to do with Palestine?

Nice attempt at deflection though.

How about the fact that the maps you have provided show that Jordan is actually inside Palestine, and was once part of the Britush mandate for Palestine before WE gave them the land.

Where have I posted a map showing Jordan inside Palestine?

That's right Jordan was created in the same manner as Israel was out of part of the mandate of palestine

No it wasn't.

Trans Jordan was created by the British out of part of their Palestinian mandate as a homeland for the Palestinian arab muslims

 

[Phoenall]

He said that he wishes American troops come here and fight with us.

In other words, he wishes other Americans send over their sons to die for his own selfish ideology.

I think it's kind of sickening, personally.

It's not my "selfish ideology", it's the position of the entire fucking world!

That's not your land! It never will be your land! And the sooner you get the fuck off that land, the sooner there will be peace. And if you don't go voluntarily, eventually you will be forced to.

Wrong herman as it is just the ideology of the NAZI ANTI SEMITIC RACIST JEW HATERS LIKE YOURSELF.


We had an aussie just like you who demanded that the UN gave the muslims nuclear weapons to use on the jews to teach them a lesson. After finding that he was seen as a RACIST NAZI he denied ever saying it until his posts were brought back and shown to all his friends.

 

[P F Tinmore]

My own contribution...

Obvious answers...

1. Hamas is identified by many countries (the US included) as a 'Terrorist Organization'.

Pfffft, third grade name calling.

2. Hamas' hard-line stance against Israel and related intransigence precludes negotiating any meaningful and lasting Peace with them.

Fatah works for Israel. Hamas works for the people.

Why do you think Fatah lost the elections?

When you have an uncompromising enemy that is unwilling to consider concluding a lasting peace on any terms but their own, and when that enemy has a demonstrable history in perpetrating acts of terrorism on an international scale, folks tend to shy-away from backing such miscreants, and, instead, choose a more reasonable alternative, if that exists.

Hamas does not operate outside of Palestine's borders.

Hamas wants peace but they do not want Israel's version of peace.

----------

Using my own words and my own thoughts, and not a lick of cut-and-paste.

 

[Hollie]

How about the fact that the maps you have provided show that Jordan is actually inside Palestine, and was once part of the Britush mandate for Palestine before WE gave them the land.

Where have I posted a map showing Jordan inside Palestine?

That's right Jordan was created in the same manner as Israel was out of part of the mandate of palestine

No it wasn't.

Trans Jordan was created by the British out of part of their Palestinian mandate as a homeland for the Palestinian arab muslims

Uh oh. Tin'less is about to drench the thread in any number of YouTube videos, probably of "press tv" authorship.

 

[P F Tinmore]

How about the fact that the maps you have provided show that Jordan is actually inside Palestine, and was once part of the Britush mandate for Palestine before WE gave them the land.

Where have I posted a map showing Jordan inside Palestine?

That's right Jordan was created in the same manner as Israel was out of part of the mandate of palestine

No it wasn't.

Trans Jordan was created by the British out of part of their Palestinian mandate as a homeland for the Palestinian arab muslims

Where does it say that?

Link?

 

[Phoenall]

Egypt and Jordan never had to give up land in their peace agreements.

That's not true.

The West Bank was part of Jordan, but Jordan didn't want this field of trouble anymore, so it gave up on it (It illegally occupied it, but that's a different issue). Since they didn't want the land, technically Israel's ruling upon it isn't really an "occupation" since it didn't belong to any country.

People say it is because of the "Palestinian" community, not because it was taken by force.

The West Bank was never part of Jordan. It was occupied Palestinian land.


First you say that Jordan occupied the West Bank. Then you say that Israel isn't really an "occupation" since it didn't belong to any country.

You probably did not notice that you are contradicting yourself.

Try opening your eyes and looking at the facts for once. trans Jordan was created by the British on the mandate for Palestine. In 1948 Jordan joined the other arab league nations and invaded Israeli sovereign territory. This resulted in Jordan acquiring the west bank and Jerusalem which it annexed and claimed as part of Jordan. In 1967 when they attacked Israel again they were beaten back and lost the land they had annexed illegally to Israeli control. This land was used by Israel as a defensive buffer under the terms of the Geneva conventions, and they have offered to vacate such land in return for peace since 1967.

 

[Phoenall]

A foreign backed coup is an illegal external interference.

It is illegal for the US to support a government that came to power in a coup.

And at the same breath, it's insanly stupid to support someone just because he was democratically elected, like in Egypt.

Hitler was voted for democratically, too.

That doesn't mean anything.

That does not give foreigners the right to overthrow an elected government.

Bad analogy though.

Tell that to the muslims who did just that in Egypt, Syria, Libya and Lebanon.

 

[proudveteran06]

My own contribution...

Obvious answers...

1. Hamas is identified by many countries (the US included) as a 'Terrorist Organization'.

Pfffft, third grade name calling.

2. Hamas' hard-line stance against Israel and related intransigence precludes negotiating any meaningful and lasting Peace with them.

Fatah works for Israel. Hamas works for the people.

Why do you think Fatah lost the elections?

When you have an uncompromising enemy that is unwilling to consider concluding a lasting peace on any terms but their own, and when that enemy has a demonstrable history in perpetrating acts of terrorism on an international scale, folks tend to shy-away from backing such miscreants, and, instead, choose a more reasonable alternative, if that exists.

Hamas does not operate outside of Palestine's borders.

Hamas wants peace but they do not want Israel's version of peace.

----------

Using my own words and my own thoughts, and not a lick of cut-and-paste.

Hamas version of " peace" are the 67 Borders and " Right of Return" which will never happen. Israel wants Peace but will not accept their Version of " peace" which will eventually turn them into an annex of the already existing " palestinian state"

 

[Phoenall]

That does not give foreigners the right to overthrow an elected government.

Bad analogy though.

The analogy isn't bad.

And it wasn't America who forced Morsi down, it was Egypt itself.

I was thinking that Hitler was a bad analogy.

I was thinking about the US coup in Palestine.

I feel sorry for Egypt. They are torn between the Muslim Brotherhood and a US stooge military.

What US coup in Palestine, as Palestine is a non entity

 

[Phoenall]

"...I was thinking about the US coup in Palestine..."

Why did the US (and the UK, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, etc.) decide to back Fatah rather than Hamas, despite the vote in 2006 going in favor of Hamas?

Could it be because of the fact that hamas is a proven terrorist organisation, and fatah is the lesser of two evils.