Death Panels..Canadian Style

[Neotrotsky]

The man has the 'right' to live if he can choose to live - he can't. He's a vegetable.

Maybe the state should tell people when to have abortions?

If its a child involved, the State should certainly be able to force an abortion, but only if the life of the child is at risk, or if the child wants the abortion.

Why stop with children.

Why not adult women?
Choose for them, when to have one?
Even when they don't want one.

Maybe keeping some fetuses "alive drains the healthcare system - the taxpayers"



Like they do in China

 

[Lumpy 1]

The man has the 'right' to live if he can choose to live - he can't. He's a vegetable.

I don't know why but your callousness still surprises me..

 

[Neotrotsky]

I have a feeling, you have not seen anything yet

 

[Dragonlady]

I'm reminded of my Aunt Gladys who needed treatments for ovarian cancer. The Canadian health care system refused those treatments and she died. She would have lived several more years according to her and her doctors but it wasn't prudent, financially.

You don't have to call it "Death Panels" but the results are still the same..

btw.. I was born in London, Ontario and my beloved Aunt Gladys is buried there.

I am sorry for your loss but I find it difficult to believe that your Aunt was refused treatment. Perhaps her cancer was very advanced and unlikely to respond to treatment. There are some forms of ovarian cancer which are virtual death sentences. Perhaps, given her odds, she opted for quality of life for the time remaining.

My 91 year old grandmother was diagnosed with liver cancer. She received aggressive treatment, including surgery and radiation. At the time she was bedridden, suffering from advanced Alzheimer's and living in a nursing home. They were talking about chemo for her.

Given her age and overall health at the time, I couldn't believe the money and effort expanded on her treatment.

I know of some cancer patients with low survival rate cancers who aggressively use every option to extend their lives and they are never refused treatment. Others will opt for quality of life without chemo for whatever time remains, but it's always the patient's choice.

 

[Peterf]

The man has the 'right' to live if he can choose to live - he can't. He's a vegetable.

Then it is up to his wife to decide as they have agreed.

Not the people, doctors, or the government

-Geaux

Yes it is up to the wife if she is paying. But it is not up to the wife to demand other people's money to satisfy her religious or other principles.

 

[Dragonlady]

Yes it is up to the wife if she is paying. But it is not up to the wife to demand other people's money to satisfy her religious or other principles.

The wife has every right to require the Canadian health care system to pay for her husband's treatment IF he expressed the wish that extraordinary measures be used to keep him alive. But if she doesn't have a power of attorney for personal care and there is no evidence that HE wanted this done, she's on shaky ground.

Hospitals are now asking patients what they want done in the event of "unexpected consequences" before any procedures now, and patients sign forms outlining their wishes before the procedures, just because of cases like this one.

The Ontario Care and Capacity Tribunal - the so-called "death panel" does exist, but its role is to determine whether or not the patient is capable of making their own decisions, and who has the right to speak for the patient if the patient is incapacitated, not to decide who lives and who dies. They mediate between family members if one family members wants to pull the plug and others do not.

My ex-mother-in-law's children were involved in a dispute at the end of her life. She had made her wishes known to her oldest daughter (a registered nurse) and given her a power of attorney for personal care, but her sons objected to pulling the plug and accused their sister of wanting to "kill their mother". In such a case, the Care and Capacity Tribunal would have clearly decided that the daughter (a) had the right to make such a decision; and (b) such decision was in keeping with the stated wishes of the patient when she was fully capable of making such decisions.

In cases where there is no power of attorney and there is clear evidence that the patient did not want extraordinary measures taken to save their life, the adjudicators (panel of 3, minimum), can decide to pull the plug, but only in cases where there is compelling evidence that this was the patient's wish. That's why hospitals are now asking these questions before any procedure.

That's not the same thing as the government deciding who can live or who dies, as suggested by posters in this thread.

 

[Katzndogz]

What happens when someone chooses not to be put to death and the panel decides they are not capable of making that decision? What happens when the panel decides the family and appointed decision maker is too emotionally involved to make that decision?

 

[ClosedCaption]

OP's a dumbass for linking to an article that blow himself out the water.

 

[Lumpy 1]

OP's a dumbass for linking to an article that blow himself out the water.

I can't be blamed for your comprehensive problems...maybe you were reading something you didn't want to hear and simply blocking it out, a popular Democrat character flaw indeed.

 

[ClosedCaption]

OP's a dumbass for linking to an article that blow himself out the water.

I can't be blamed for your comprehensive problems...maybe you were reading something you didn't want to hear and simply blocking it out, a popular Democrat character flaw indeed.

"Comprehension" dodge check

Next: "Cant explain it" dodge

 

[Lumpy 1]

OP's a dumbass for linking to an article that blow himself out the water.

I can't be blamed for your comprehensive problems...maybe you were reading something you didn't want to hear and simply blocking it out, a popular Democrat character flaw indeed.

"Comprehension" dodge check

Next: "Cant explain it" dodge

You get that a lot is my guess...

 

[tinydancer]

They lived in a machine, I would want someone to pull the plug on me.

But see you could choose.

OK let me do this for you.

A man. A giant of a man reduced to 65 pounds. That was my father. 215 pounds of a truck driver Danny Boone wanting to live.

Never wanting to die. At what point do you say he has no right to live any more? Does anyone have the right to choose if he lives?

But I'll tell you honestly if my father had asked me to take him out I would have. These are horrible questions we face.

Blessedly God took him before I was faced with this question and this answer.

I'm sorry for your loss Tinydancer...I'm certain he loved you deeply as well.

I was his princess before before Disney Inc. made it a staple for your daughter. Not bad for a truck driving hockey playing old man.

He showed me all four corners of the net. He horrified my mother when he he said it was me singing "three blind mice" at a Toronto vs Chicago game.

Don't ask about the eggs in Buffalo cheering for the Leafs.

Dads make a difference.

When I put up those lyrics that daddy me put me on his knees and that he told me I could be anything I wanted to be.............

It's the damn truth.

Oh and he was not happy with Alice Cooper driving me home. Or hitchhiking to Boston. Or walking out that door one night saying I'll call you from California with a teddy, a small suitcase and five dollars in my hand.

But he loved me thru thick and thin. I was a handful.

I was desperate at his end of days. I was carrying him to the washroom before we figured it out that it would be easier if I made a bed pan out of a laundry detergent container.

I learned a lot of lessons with my dad's death in the new world where this sweetest young lady apparently till I came back up from Tennessee was trying to keep down his cholesterol level.

She was just in shock when I had to inform her my dad's toast. It's party time.

I'm bringing in he Timmy's and the Molson's. Girl really couldn't get it that the last thing my dad needed was to watch his weight. Good girl though. Just didn't understand.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Big one in Britain with the Liverpool pathway........................

They got bonus money for offiing people. Its the classic.

What could go wrong?

Only the little people, though.

 

[Uncensored2008]

If you are only being kept alive by a machine, are you really alive?

Dunno, let me go down to the dialysis center and ask.....

 

[Neotrotsky]

If you are only being kept alive by a machine, are you really alive?

Dunno, let me go down to the dialysis center and ask.....

think of it like this

if you are being kept alive by an umbilical cord
are you really alive ?

 

[Vox]

The man has the 'right' to live if he can choose to live - he can't. He's a vegetable.

I don't know why but your callousness still surprises me..

it should not. vegetables should not surprise you

 

[Vox]

So according to you government has the right to trample on a citizens (religious freedoms) Constitutional Rights and decide on life or death ie.. "Life & Death Panels"..

According to me relatives have no right, constitutional or other, to have taxpayers subsidise their religious beliefs by paying to keep someone who is brain dead 'alive' indefinitely.

soooo.. only pull the plug if their brain dead, seems humanitarian enough to me.

well, some might still have certain perfusion in their brain but be dead nevertheless.

It is a VERY difficult issue to discuss - both ways.

 

[Vox]

Big one in Britain with the Liverpool pathway........................

They got bonus money for offiing people. Its the classic.

What could go wrong?

Only the little people, though.

yessssss, here we get to the very core of the problem which is rarely discussed - rationed care means CORRUPTION

 

[Vox]

If you are only being kept alive by a machine, are you really alive?

Dunno, let me go down to the dialysis center and ask.....

BTW, British patients are being dumped off dialysis after 75 - enough by their standard.
Some end up on OUR tax support - first through EMTALA then getting green cards as refugees who will suffer unusual punishment if they are deported. And obviously on all our social network support.
talking about stupid

 

[Dragonlady]

What happens when someone chooses not to be put to death and the panel decides they are not capable of making that decision? What happens when the panel decides the family and appointed decision maker is too emotionally involved to make that decision?

Capacity hearings are to decide if a patient has the capacity to refuse treatment or voluntary commitment to a mental institution. No one is being "put to death". If a patient is conscious and talking, no one is ever going to pull the plug on their treatment.

The Tribunal is usually called upon to decide who has the right to make decisions on behalf of a patient in the absence of a power of attorney and where family members are fighting over the decision. At that time, they review evidence of what the patient's wishes were.

It is not the role of the Tribunal to decide who lives or dies, but rather to decide which family member has the right to decide whether or not to pull the plug. In such cases, the patient is unable to speak for his or her self.