De-Valuing a College Degree...Good Policy?

[ReinyDays]

No

Gravity is why we bother with engineers ... carpenters are too stupid ... the most we can master is trig, though few do ...

 

[rightwinger]

Gravity is why we bother with engineers ... carpenters are too stupid ... the most we can master is trig, though few do ...

Never needed to calculate gravity outside of F= ma

 

[DGS49]

Yes, sounds like a great idea who know nothing about education. I think some personal bias is evident ere. Let us guess you education level, I would say it was a high school diploma but a few college courses at best. You don't show the motivation to get a college degree, hence your bias to wards those who you think are less smart than you, but hold a paper saying they are.

What do do about people who do not test well? My daughter had to take remedial math in college, despite crushing it in high school, simply because she did poorly on the college assessment test. . She aced the course and the proceeded to make good grades the next two years in her math classes. On the other hand, my SAT and ACT scores were so high, I started without the intro course and then onward to engineering and computer science classes.

I have a J.D. from Duquesne University, thank you very much.

I do not accept the proposition that there are "smart" people who do not do well on tests. Most standardized tests have been developed over DECADES to reflect exactly what they purport to reflect. In my own experience, people who claim that they "don't do well on written tests," are not as "smart"as they think they are. Unless you are dyslexic, your test results will be valid.

As for Math, I only have anecdotal information, but I suspect there has been a movement over the past thirty years or so to shift grading in Math from a quantitative measure to a "feel good" measure, so that girls will get better grades than boys, which always drives female teachers crazy. So HS Math grades reflect things like "effort," neatness, and other irrelevancies. Standardized tests do not reflect that foolishness. As for college "Math," we all know that courses are available that actually require little facility with mathematical concepts.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I have a J.D. from Duquesne University, thank you very much.

I do not accept the proposition that there are "smart" people who do not do well on tests. Most standardized tests have been developed over DECADES to reflect exactly what they purport to reflect. In my own experience, people who claim that they "don't do well on written tests," are not as "smart"as they think they are. Unless you are dyslexic, your test results will be valid.

As for Math, I only have anecdotal information, but I suspect there has been a movement over the past thirty years or so to shift grading in Math from a quantitative measure to a "feel good" measure, so that girls will get better grades than boys, which always drives female teachers crazy. So HS Math grades reflect things like "effort," neatness, and other irrelevancies. Standardized tests do not reflect that foolishness. As for college "Math," we all know that courses are available that actually require little facility with mathematical concepts.

I have a J.D. from Duquesne University, thank you very much.

I do not accept the proposition that there are "smart" people who do not do well on tests. Most standardized tests have been developed over DECADES to reflect exactly what they purport to reflect. In my own experience, people who claim that they "don't do well on written tests," are not as "smart"as they think they are. Unless you are dyslexic, your test results will be valid.

As for Math, I only have anecdotal information, but I suspect there has been a movement over the past thirty years or so to shift grading in Math from a quantitative measure to a "feel good" measure, so that girls will get better grades than boys, which always drives female teachers crazy. So HS Math grades reflect things like "effort," neatness, and other irrelevancies. Standardized tests do not reflect that foolishness. As for college "Math," we all know that courses are available that actually require little facility with mathematical concepts.

A JD? In other words you know nothing about education.

I have 21 years experience that says you are wrong. Smart people often do not test well.

Your entire post is probably anecdotal information cease it is no where near the norm.

I appreciate your trying but you have no grip on reality.

 

[DGS49]

Let's see...where's the logic here...I went to school, full time, for about 20 years, and yet...you say I know nothing about education. Hmmm.

You say that there are a significant number of people who are "smart," but don't do well on tests, and there's no data to prove it. I wonder why. The only way to prove it would be to GIVE THEM A TEST!

I still say, the Dept of Education should create a comprehensive general knowledge and intelligence test, the score of which would indicate the test-taker's education equivalency. Loads of Leftist college grads would get a very unwelcome surprise.

 

[rightwinger]

I still say, the Dept of Education should create a comprehensive general knowledge and intelligence test, the score of which would indicate the test-taker's education equivalency.

There are dozens of such tests

They demonstrate your ability to take tests and retain often irrelevant information.

While they may be helpful, they are not absolute in their assessment of your abilities

 

[Anathema]

I work with degrees engineers every day. I also work with (mostly) high school graduate operations supervisors and personnel. More often than not I find the information, evaluations and suggestions from the operations guys to be far better than the degrees engineers.

In so many instances I see degree holders who have no common sense, no interpersonal skills and nothing more than book learning. Everything they know comes from a book or a website. They have little to no real world understanding or experience.

As long as the prospective employees have the skills and experience necessary to do the job, I honestly dont see any problem doing away with the degree requirement for many jobs.

Of course I might be biased… my college degree wouldn’t meet the current requirements for my job, even though I’m at the top of the list of workers in my department. I’ve been grandfathered to my job and the Senior position due to my experience in the department. Also, my mother’s uncle was the last man in Minnesota to get an architects license without an architecture degree. He came up the old way, starting as an apprentice draftsman.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Let's see...where's the logic here...I went to school, full time, for about 20 years, and yet...you say I know nothing about education. Hmmm.

You say that there are a significant number of people who are "smart," but don't do well on tests, and there's no data to prove it. I wonder why. The only way to prove it would be to GIVE THEM A TEST!

I still say, the Dept of Education should create a comprehensive general knowledge and intelligence test, the score of which would indicate the test-taker's education equivalency. Loads of Leftist college grads would get a very unwelcome surprise.

That's idiotic.

 

[80zephyr]

Grade inflation doesn't help either.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Most jobs simply don't require a college degree. This is an archaic belief by the Boomer generation who keep pushing this idea that without a college degree you're a loser. They did my generation and others a great disservice by making us believe this. Now you've got thousands of young adults with $100k in debt and little to show for it. Unless you are going into a specialty field, a high school diploma or a basic two-year Associate Degree is plenty adequate to perform most jobs in corporate America. I have an MBA, but I would estimate 90% of what I do today I learned doing on the job.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Yes, sounds like a great idea who know nothing about education. I think some personal bias is evident ere. Let us guess you education level, I would say it was a high school diploma but a few college courses at best. You don't show the motivation to get a college degree, hence your bias to wards those who you think are less smart than you, but hold a paper saying they are.

What do do about people who do not test well? My daughter had to take remedial math in college, despite crushing it in high school, simply because she did poorly on the college assessment test. . She aced the course and the proceeded to make good grades the next two years in her math classes. On the other hand, my SAT and ACT scores were so high, I started without the intro course and then onward to engineering and computer science classes.

So...you did not read the post you quoted.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Let's see...where's the logic here...I went to school, full time, for about 20 years, and yet...you say I know nothing about education. Hmmm.

You say that there are a significant number of people who are "smart," but don't do well on tests, and there's no data to prove it. I wonder why. The only way to prove it would be to GIVE THEM A TEST!

I still say, the Dept of Education should create a comprehensive general knowledge and intelligence test, the score of which would indicate the test-taker's education equivalency. Loads of Leftist college grads would get a very unwelcome surprise.

Never contradict the midshipman. He KNOWS ALL!

 

[rightwinger]

Most jobs simply don't require a college degree. This is an archaic belief by the Boomer generation who keep pushing this idea that without a college degree you're a loser. They did my generation and others a great disservice by making us believe this. Now you've got thousands of young adults with $100k in debt and little to show for it. Unless you are going into a specialty field, a high school diploma or a basic two-year Associate Degree is plenty adequate to perform most jobs in corporate America. I have an MBA, but I would estimate 90% of what I do today I learned doing on the job.

Agree

Once I graduated, most of my job skills were picked up on the job.

If corporate America demands College degrees, they should do more to pay for them

 

[Unkotare]

Let's see...where's the logic here...I went to school, full time, for about 20 years, and yet...you say I know nothing about education. Hmmm.

....

I've ridden buses for more than twice that time. Does that make me a bus driver? Or a mechanic?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So...you did not read the post you quoted.

Yes, why? I addressed the incredible lack of intelligence illustrated in that post. Did you miss that?