Cut Corporate Tax Rates--Remove Loopholes

[mcmick]

Excluding Japan, most industrial nations have cut their corporate tax rates to be more competitive.

The big story though is Ireland.

Into the 1990's, Ireland was known as "the sick man of Europe" mostly because its workers had to leave Ireland to find work commensurate with workers' work skills.

In the early 90's, it drastically reduced its corporate tax rate, till reaching a low rate of 12 1/2% compared to our present 35%.

Major corporations poured into Ireland--jobs have soared ever since. Ireland is now more prosperous than all the major industrial nations of Europe.

A rate of 25%, in the U.S. would be a good start to be matched by removal of any loophole (no matter what you call it--credit, allowance, subsidy etc.) so that normal business expenses, are the only deductions.

Although Ireland has had this dramatic turnaround in increased jobs, increased revenues and a huge increase in living standards, most class warfare merchants on the Left--which is just about the entire left--ignore these highly desirable results.

The Left makes petty arguments about unrelated matters.

Attacking anything in any way relating to profit, seems to make them proud and certain that they just shared their wisdom with us--though hatred would often be a more accurate description.

As long as the nanny-state crowd, shows disdain for the single biggest entity of heroes in the country---those who create jobs, those who give us a choice of employment, so we don't have to be farmers or engage in some other unrewarding form of drudgery, as was the case before the Industrial Revolution started spreading wealth among the general population---that crowd feels certain that its reckless, unrelated comments are jewels of widsom.

Most of the Mainstream Media is in this group.

Hardly any members of the Mainstream Media, have ever risked a penny in their lives, yet they believe the government--which has no money of its own--is the basic solution to everything no matter how huge the cost.

 

[Lycurgus]

Excellent article and excellent example.

 

[editec]

That's not the whole story.

You forgot the part where years before, Ireland started investing heavily in educating their children via FREE PUBLIC EDUCATION.

And I don't mean they went at this in some halfhearted way, either.

Here's an example of what I mean

If you are an undergraduate student at a publicly funded third-level educational institution, you do not, in general, have to pay fees.

So before you start thinking that all it took was tax breaks to billionaires to change Ireland's economy, you ought to know that it took a major rethink of their entire social systems and a huge investment into the PEOPLE to make Ireland anyplace that corporations wanted to move.

Free fees




In order to qualify for free fees:

• You must be an EU national or have official refugee status and
• You must have been living in the EU (this includes any of the accession states) for at least 3 of the 5 years before starting your course and
• You must be undertaking a full-time undergraduate course of at least 2 years duration and
• You must not have a previous qualification to the same level (Students who hold a National Certificate or Diploma and are progressing to degree courses may be eligible) and
• You must not be repeating the year (although this exclusion may be waived where a student has to repeat a year due to certified serious illness)

The undergraduate courses for which the free fees arrangements apply are courses in

• Universities
• Institutes of technology
• Colleges of education
• National College of Ireland
• A number of religious education institutions

</H3>

 

[Lycurgus]

That's not the whole story.

You forgot the part where years before, Ireland started investing heavily in educating their children via FREE PUBLIC EDUCATION.

And I don't mean they went at this in some halfhearted way, either.

Here's an example of what I mean

If you are an undergraduate student at a publicly funded third-level educational institution, you do not, in general, have to pay fees.

So before you start thinking that all it took was tax breaks to billionaires to change Ireland's economy, you ought to know that it took a major rethink of their entire social systems and a huge investment into the PEOPLE to make Ireland anyplace that corporations wanted to move.
</H3>

And Ireland is not the only one in Europe rethinking things. As the article shared only pointed to one segment, I don't think the message intended was that the entire turn around was hinged on that.

As we all know Europe is much older then we. For us, I think they present a good case study and they hold valuable lessons and insight. In turn, they find some of the same in our achievements and short comings.

By and large throughout the EU the K-12 educational system far surpasses ours. In fact from my experience which has been somewhat hands on, even our more elite private schools only match their public system.

On a different note. Their national healthcare systems are going to face change as well. IMO based on conversations I have had, there is more than just rumblings of a complete restructure. However, they have no desire to shift into what we currently have, though they are learning, pro and con from it.

Clearly all of these issues are much more complex than what my basic opinion can demonstrate, but, the basic common principal applies, too much of any one thing is not healthy. Be it socialism, capitalism, nationalism and so on. The goal is moderation and wise adaptation of the assets, blended into working in harmony with each other to gain positives, rejecting the negatives and creating a system which can by and large best serve the public sector, the government sector and the private business sector.

Not that utopia can ever be achieved, but, I think Europe and their current changes, coupled with it's long past hold great lessons for us.

As does our past and as does our many young inspiring minds. Hopefully, Europe, as well as us can use these valuable tools to create better societies for all.

 

[Zoom-boing]

And Ireland is not the only one in Europe rethinking things. As the article shared only pointed to one segment, I don't think the message intended was that the entire turn around was hinged on that.

As we all know Europe is much older then we. For us, I think they present a good case study and they hold valuable lessons and insight. In turn, they find some of the same in our achievements and short comings.

By and large throughout the EU the K-12 educational system far surpasses ours. In fact from my experience which has been somewhat hands on, even our more elite private schools only match their public system.

On a different note. Their national healthcare systems are going to face change as well. IMO based on conversations I have had, there is more than just rumblings of a complete restructure. However, they have no desire to shift into what we currently have, though they are learning, pro and con from it.

Clearly all of these issues are much more complex than what my basic opinion can demonstrate, but, the basic common principal applies, too much of any one thing is not healthy. Be it socialism, capitalism, nationalism and so on. The goal is moderation and wise adaptation of the assets, blended into working in harmony with each other to gain positives, rejecting the negatives and creating a system which can by and large best serve the public sector, the government sector and the private business sector.

Not that utopia can ever be achieved, but, I think Europe and their current changes, coupled with it's long past hold great lessons for us.

As does our past and as does our many young inspiring minds. Hopefully, Europe, as well as us can use these valuable tools to create better societies for all.

Completely agree, nicely worded.

 

[DiamondDave]

That's not the whole story.

You forgot the part where years before, Ireland started investing heavily in educating their children via FREE PUBLIC EDUCATION.

And I don't mean they went at this in some halfhearted way, either.

Here's an example of what I mean

If you are an undergraduate student at a publicly funded third-level educational institution, you do not, in general, have to pay fees.

So before you start thinking that all it took was tax breaks to billionaires to change Ireland's economy, you ought to know that it took a major rethink of their entire social systems and a huge investment into the PEOPLE to make Ireland anyplace that corporations wanted to move.
</H3>

1) We do provide free education for CHILDREN
2) When you are an adult, you are responsible for yourself. Society, nor the government, is responsible for your well being or your education.

And I am still in support for equal % burden taxation across the board. Every company, every individual. So it, for me, is not about "tax breaks" but a return to equality and the elimination of loopholes, government entitlements, government spending in areas it has no business spending, and wasteful spending.

 

[Zoom-boing]

1) We do provide free education for CHILDREN

Free? Oooo, can I stop paying my property taxes now?

2) When you are an adult, you are responsible for yourself. Society, nor the government, is responsible for your well being or your education.

Absolutely agree.

 

[DiamondDave]

Free? Oooo, can I stop paying my property taxes now?



Absolutely agree.

By that meaning of "free"... i mean not receiving a direct bill... no refusal of education because of the inability to pay a school fee bill... no charges 'per student" that you have in the schools.. etc

 

[Tech_Esq]

That's not the whole story.

You forgot the part where years before, Ireland started investing heavily in educating their children via FREE PUBLIC EDUCATION.

And I don't mean they went at this in some halfhearted way, either.

Here's an example of what I mean

If you are an undergraduate student at a publicly funded third-level educational institution, you do not, in general, have to pay fees.

So before you start thinking that all it took was tax breaks to billionaires to change Ireland's economy, you ought to know that it took a major rethink of their entire social systems and a huge investment into the PEOPLE to make Ireland anyplace that corporations wanted to move.
</H3>

This is a damned smart idea. I'm not sure if it would scale to the size of the US though. But we have to rethink how we deal with post secondary education in this country. At the present rate, in 25 years we're going to start graduating kids from college with $500,000 worth of indebtedness. Clearly the system is well past broken.

 

[editec]

1) We do provide free education for CHILDREN
2) When you are an adult, you are responsible for yourself. Society, nor the government, is responsible for your well being or your education.

And THAT is our mistake. Adults need retraining no less than kids need training.

And we do NOT have free college education, either.

And I am still in support for equal % burden taxation across the board. Every company, every individual. So it, for me, is not about "tax breaks" but a return to equality and the elimination of loopholes, government entitlements, government spending in areas it has no business spending, and wasteful spending.

You mean a flat tax?

If so, terrible idea.

It won't work.

Income inequity makes such a plan impossible.

Fix income inequity and it's got legs, though.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And THAT is our mistake. Adults need retraining no less than kids need training.

And we do NOT have free college education, either.



You mean a flat tax?

If so, terrible idea.

It won't work.

Income inequity makes such a plan impossible.

Fix income inequity and it's got legs, though.

It won't work because those who pay nothing now want to keep riding for free.

 

[DiamondDave]

And THAT is our mistake. Adults need retraining no less than kids need training.

And we do NOT have free college education, either.



You mean a flat tax?

If so, terrible idea.

It won't work.

Income inequity makes such a plan impossible.

Fix income inequity and it's got legs, though.

1) And an adult is responsible of taking care of their own needs. Society nor the government is responsible... sack up and have some personal responsibility, and demand it in others... nothing is owed to you as an adult, by anyone or anything. What you want or need, you earn for. If you have to work while you attend school, so be it. If you take 6 or more years instead of 4 to get your degree, so be it. If you choose to go another route, so be it. If you never get it, so be it.

2) Yes... a flat tax... much like justice being blind, taxation should be as well... every person and every company taxed the same exact rate on every dollar earned.... the only reason people say it cannot work is because they are inherently against equal treatment.. the rich will still pay more and the poor will still pay less... but equal treatment, which we call for and strive for in other areas, will reign instead of a punishment system

 

[Ravi]

A rate of 25%, in the U.S. would be a good start to be matched by removal of any loophole (no matter what you call it--credit, allowance, subsidy etc.) so that normal business expenses, are the only deductions.

You realize of course that this would actually RAISE the tax rate paid by corporations. Wasn't it last year that the GAO came out with a report that 2/3 of American corporations don't pay any corporate tax? The tax rate in the US for corporations is extremely low, comparatively speaking.

The Gap Between Statutory and Real Corporate Tax Rates

 

[editec]

You realize of course that this would actually RAISE the tax rate paid by corporations. Wasn't it last year that the GAO came out with a report that 2/3 of American corporations don't pay any corporate tax? The tax rate in the US for corporations is extremely low, comparatively speaking.

The Gap Between Statutory and Real Corporate Tax Rates

Stop confusing these ideolgues with reality, Ravi.

All this flat tax blather is just their vehicle so they to whine about people who are losers, so they can stand up and beat their chests about what great self made men they all are.

We all know that, don't we?

 

[DiamondDave]

Stop confusing these ideolgues with reality, Ravi.

All this flat tax blather is just their vehicle so they to whine about people who are losers, so they can stand up and beat their chests about what great self made men they all are.

We all know that, don't we?

Just like you say you are for equality.. until the unequal treatment of others sends a benefit to you?

 

[Ravi]

Just like you say you are for equality.. until the unequal treatment of others sends a benefit to you?

Dave, corporations and those that make their money off of investments actually pay a lower tax rate than you do in all likelihood.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Dave, corporations and those that make their money off of investments actually pay a lower tax rate than you do in all likelihood.

You may want to change the way you said that. I believe the corporate tax rate is 35%. Most people don't pay a tax rate that high. Unless you know something about Dave I don't.

Money off investments would be taxed at the Capital Gains rate which is currently at 15%. So, two different things.

That said, we could have a discussion about the effective tax rate of corporations.

 

[Ravi]

You may want to change the way you said that. I believe the corporate tax rate is 35%. Most people don't pay a tax rate that high. Unless you know something about Dave I don't.

Money off investments would be taxed at the Capital Gains rate which is currently at 15%. So, two different things.

That said, we could have a discussion about the effective tax rate of corporations.

Read my other link discussing the effective tax rate.

 

[editec]

Just like you say you are for equality.. until the unequal treatment of others sends a benefit to you?

I don't mean to confuse you DD.

It's just that it's so hard NOT to confuse somebody like you.

 

[DiamondDave]

Dave, corporations and those that make their money off of investments actually pay a lower tax rate than you do in all likelihood.

Because of loopholes, unequal tax laws etc.... yes... some probably do...

But that is not what I am advocating... nor am I advocating a punishment system involving redistribution.... I continually throw my support behind equality in treatment, including on taxation...

As long as all corps are taxed the same and loopholes disappear, good... same with individuals... even if it is determined that individuals and corporations have different tax rates for each other (e.g. 19% for individuals and 22% for corps.. or whatever)... the effective tax rate would have to be determined, just as the wasteful government spending and idiotic government entitlements would have to be reviewed and eliminated