Crowd stunned after valedictorian rips up speech, recites Lord’s prayer

[Derideo_Te]

as long as you are wiling to admit that your pushing back against anti homosexuality is not sincere at all. I mean why do you push back? because someone is trying to crush your rights? your plight is no different then his

There is no government "right" to impose any specific religion. His personal rights were not being infringed. You are conflating two entirely different things here.

so he did , nothing wrong. in that case. so lets get all the whiny anti god crybabies who are so offended at the mention of his name to just move along. the school told him there would be no more prayer at graduation. he was just exercising his right to pray. time to move on. the schools action prompted his action. and that's how it goes.

If you had read the earlier posts by Jake, Avg_Joe and yours truly you would know that was where we all were right from the outset on this issue. Your puerile mischaracterization merely reflects upon your own lack of comprehension as to where Atheists stand when it comes to rights. However you do get credit for being quick on the uptake. Have a nice day.

 

[Derideo_Te]

as long as you are wiling to admit that your pushing back against anti homosexuality is not sincere at all. I mean why do you push back? because someone is trying to crush your rights? your plight is no different then his

There is no government "right" to impose any specific religion. His personal rights were not being infringed. You are conflating two entirely different things here.

How is a public prayer "imposing" religion upon anyone?

Pssst...it's not.

The 1st Amendment specifically prohibits government employees from endorsing any religion. This means that a principal/teacher/coach leading a prayer in a public school facility would be endorsing religion.

 

[JakeStarkey]

koshergrl cannot comprehended the logic of your comment, Derideo_Te.

There are sensible religionists and some who are not. She is in the latter category.

 

[Ravi]

koshergrl cannot comprehended the logic of your comment, Derideo_Te.

There are sensible religionists and some who are not. She is in the latter category.

In her case it has nothing to do with religion. She's just batshit crazy.

 

[Spoonman]

There is no government "right" to impose any specific religion. His personal rights were not being infringed. You are conflating two entirely different things here.

so he did , nothing wrong. in that case. so lets get all the whiny anti god crybabies who are so offended at the mention of his name to just move along. the school told him there would be no more prayer at graduation. he was just exercising his right to pray. time to move on. the schools action prompted his action. and that's how it goes.

If you had read the earlier posts by Jake, Avg_Joe and yours truly you would know that was where we all were right from the outset on this issue. Your puerile mischaracterization merely reflects upon your own lack of comprehension as to where Atheists stand when it comes to rights. However you do get credit for being quick on the uptake. Have a nice day.

oh really? you mean where atheist demand there is no prayer or mention of religion because any mention of it offends them. therefore there is no prayer or mention of religion. you tell me? who got their way? who was forced to change their way? Well guess what pal, its a new day. and ignorant morons like you who think you can trample our rights have another thing coming. our rights will be exercised. don't like it, don't listen. don't want to worship god, don't. don't want to own a gun, don't buy one. but you can bet the days of people not exercising their rights are over. So I guess you are just going to have to learn to deal with it.

 

[bodecea]

what people who try to step on other peoples rights have to realize, that eventually the people pushed are going to start pushing back. and that is what you are seeing here. what you try to suppress will be even more in your face. look what you gun grab attempts did. gun ownership is up. people are buying up every piece of ammunition available, every reloading supply. all you are achieving is the exact opposite of what you want. and what will really add fuel to the fire is a high profile story like this getting major response. it becomes a rallying point.

So...what Spoonman just admitted is that this was about "pushing back".....not sincere prayer at all. Is that the purpose of prayer for christians these days? For some, it appears to be so.

as long as you are wiling to admit that your pushing back against anti homosexuality is not sincere at all. I mean why do you push back? because someone is trying to crush your rights? your plight is no different then his

Wait......what?

 

[Derideo_Te]

koshergrl cannot comprehended the logic of your comment, Derideo_Te.

There are sensible religionists and some who are not. She is in the latter category.

It is a sad state of affairs when people don't even understand the rights that give them the freedom to believe as they do. Thank goodness that there are sensible people like you around to fill in the void.

 

[Spoonman]

There is no government "right" to impose any specific religion. His personal rights were not being infringed. You are conflating two entirely different things here.

How is a public prayer "imposing" religion upon anyone?

Pssst...it's not.

The 1st Amendment specifically prohibits government employees from endorsing any religion. This means that a principal/teacher/coach leading a prayer in a public school facility would be endorsing religion.

so what government employee endorsed prayer here? and what specifically in the 1st amendment prohibits a government official from leading a prayer? all it say is government shall make no laws against. you libs sure do love to twist words don't you

 

[Spoonman]

So...what Spoonman just admitted is that this was about "pushing back".....not sincere prayer at all. Is that the purpose of prayer for christians these days? For some, it appears to be so.

as long as you are wiling to admit that your pushing back against anti homosexuality is not sincere at all. I mean why do you push back? because someone is trying to crush your rights? your plight is no different then his

Wait......what?

its the same thing babe. a right is a right. defending that right, what ever it is is all based on the same principle

 

[JakeStarkey]

Spoonman, that is what Derideo_Te is pointing out. Nothing against the law occurred. The kid has every right to do as he did. I am a believer, others are not, and yet we agree the kid did fine. And anyone who wants to complain has that right as well.

 

[hoosier88]

...

...

For the life of me, I can't figure out whether or not you think prayer is appropriate in this context. I think you're saying it's the job of the school board to strong-arm people who dare to openly pray when they are on public property.

In which case, you're full of shit. No, the school board is not an enforcement committee charged with racing up on the stage and hustling off radical prayers to the back.

And it's perfectly appropriate for a child graduating from a public school to lead those who wish to join in, in a solemn prayer. It's a shame they aren't allowed to just close with a prayer, and it's a shame that the mere mention of "God" brings the roof crashing down and signals the end of that person's moment on stage...if we were true to the Constitution, the valedictorian would be able to say their speech and lead in prayer and there would be no uproar at all.

(My bold)

Prayer may be appropriate, I didn't see in the coverage if there was an invocation, by a member of the clergy. I would expect there would have been, it being fairly common practice.

The school board needed to act, because it wasn't merely public property. It was during graduation, in the valedictorian's speech. The admin had cleared the valedictorian's speech - which he made a nice display of trashing & then proceeded to testify & pray (I missed if he led the prayer - did the public act as a congregation, then?) & of course the school board is an enforcement agency - school districts are cases of special government, their oath of office is to the state government, not to the local populace, however constituted. The school board is required to balance the budget, ensure that licensed teachers are hired, the curriculum is taught, attendance is accurate & a host of responsibilities. One of which is to make sure the corporation does not needlessly embroil itself in no-win litigation.

The prayer did not mark the end of the valedictorian's moment, his entire speech marked that he'd broken his word, departed his script, & was flouting the framework of law that a school district operates under. The US Constitution, as I recall, doesn't even mention God by name - the rubric is something like Nature's Creator.

If the valedictorian wanted prayer, he could have arranged something with his minister or pastor, a nice observance @ church, invite all his classmates & parents & family, where of course, he could testify & pray until the cows came home - & everyone would have understood. What he did was take the podium under false pretenses & hijack the proceedings.

There are consequences for that, if any of the students/parents care to pursue them. & the school corporation is on the hook, for failling to exercise their mandated control of proceedings under their nominal auspices.

 

[JakeStarkey]

hoosier88, I suspect your "speech" above is more unethical than that of the valedictorian.

Step off, for heaven's sake.

 

[Ravi]

...

For the life of me, I can't figure out whether or not you think prayer is appropriate in this context. I think you're saying it's the job of the school board to strong-arm people who dare to openly pray when they are on public property.

In which case, you're full of shit. No, the school board is not an enforcement committee charged with racing up on the stage and hustling off radical prayers to the back.

And it's perfectly appropriate for a child graduating from a public school to lead those who wish to join in, in a solemn prayer. It's a shame they aren't allowed to just close with a prayer, and it's a shame that the mere mention of "God" brings the roof crashing down and signals the end of that person's moment on stage...if we were true to the Constitution, the valedictorian would be able to say their speech and lead in prayer and there would be no uproar at all.

(My bold)

Prayer may be appropriate, I didn't see in the coverage if there was an invocation, by a member of the clergy. I would expect there would have been, it being fairly common practice.

The school board needed to act, because it wasn't merely public property. It was during graduation, in the valedictorian's speech. The admin had cleared the valedictorian's speech - which he made a nice display of trashing & then proceeded to testify & pray (I missed if he led the prayer - did the public act as a congregation, then?) & of course the school board is an enforcement agency - school districts are cases of special government, their oath of office is to the state government, not to the local populace, however constituted. The school board is required to balance the budget, ensure that licensed teachers are hired, the curriculum is taught, attendance is accurate & a host of responsibilities. One of which is to make sure the corporation does not needlessly embroil itself in no-win litigation.

The prayer did not mark the end of the valedictorian's moment, his entire speech marked that he'd broken his word, departed his script, & was flouting the framework of law that a school district operates under. The US Constitution, as I recall, doesn't even mention God by name - the rubric is something like Nature's Creator.

If the valedictorian wanted prayer, he could have arranged something with his minister or pastor, a nice observance @ church, invite all his classmates & parents & family, where of course, he could testify & pray until the cows came home - & everyone would have understood. What he did was take the podium under false pretenses & hijack the proceedings.

There are consequences for that, if any of the students/parents care to pursue them. & the school corporation is on the hook, for failling to exercise their mandated control of proceedings under their nominal auspices.

Not a bad point, he did prove himself to be untrustworthy.

 

[Spoonman]

Spoonman, that is what Derideo_Te is pointing out. Nothing against the law occurred. The kid has every right to do as he did. I am a believer, others are not, and yet we agree the kid did fine. And anyone who wants to complain has that right as well.

ea, they have a right to complain about it, but they aren't going to change it. and the point i'm making is the anti group has been successful in twisting interpretation to stop prayer in school being led by a school employee. but what they are going to have to realize is that all they have successfully achieved is creating a situation where people who disagree are going to take matters into their own hands. like this. and the other point I/m making is if you believe in rights, then you have to believe and support all rights, not pick and choose what suits your personal agenda and then try to suppress another you don't agree with. like they love to argue - don't want to be, don't be. but get out of others business

 

[koshergrl]

You would applaude, ravtard, since he didn't make a point at all, except that he views the school board as some sort of policing group, which is ludicrous at best.

I would like to see a link that shows that it is the duty of the school board to police school ceremonies, and halt any un-approved speech or behavior.

 

[koshergrl]

For the life of me, I can't figure out whether or not you think prayer is appropriate in this context. I think you're saying it's the job of the school board to strong-arm people who dare to openly pray when they are on public property.

In which case, you're full of shit. No, the school board is not an enforcement committee charged with racing up on the stage and hustling off radical prayers to the back.

And it's perfectly appropriate for a child graduating from a public school to lead those who wish to join in, in a solemn prayer. It's a shame they aren't allowed to just close with a prayer, and it's a shame that the mere mention of "God" brings the roof crashing down and signals the end of that person's moment on stage...if we were true to the Constitution, the valedictorian would be able to say their speech and lead in prayer and there would be no uproar at all.

(My bold)

Prayer may be appropriate, I didn't see in the coverage if there was an invocation, by a member of the clergy. I would expect there would have been, it being fairly common practice.

The school board needed to act, because it wasn't merely public property. It was during graduation, in the valedictorian's speech. The admin had cleared the valedictorian's speech - which he made a nice display of trashing & then proceeded to testify & pray (I missed if he led the prayer - did the public act as a congregation, then?) & of course the school board is an enforcement agency - school districts are cases of special government, their oath of office is to the state government, not to the local populace, however constituted. The school board is required to balance the budget, ensure that licensed teachers are hired, the curriculum is taught, attendance is accurate & a host of responsibilities. One of which is to make sure the corporation does not needlessly embroil itself in no-win litigation.

The prayer did not mark the end of the valedictorian's moment, his entire speech marked that he'd broken his word, departed his script, & was flouting the framework of law that a school district operates under. The US Constitution, as I recall, doesn't even mention God by name - the rubric is something like Nature's Creator.

If the valedictorian wanted prayer, he could have arranged something with his minister or pastor, a nice observance @ church, invite all his classmates & parents & family, where of course, he could testify & pray until the cows came home - & everyone would have understood. What he did was take the podium under false pretenses & hijack the proceedings.

There are consequences for that, if any of the students/parents care to pursue them. & the school corporation is on the hook, for failling to exercise their mandated control of proceedings under their nominal auspices.

Not a bad point, he did prove himself to be untrustworthy.

The sneaky, untrustworthy, and worst of all...CHRISTIAN valedictorian!

Someone should horsewhip him! Tar and feather!

Hey..that's the job of the school board! They are derelict in their duties!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Spoonman, you wrote that "you have to believe and support all rights, not pick and choose what suits your personal agenda and then try to suppress another you don't agree with."

Yes, you are right, and the extremes of far Left and far Right do exactly that. Look at JoeB and koshergrl when it comes to doing just that.

 

[Spoonman]

For the life of me, I can't figure out whether or not you think prayer is appropriate in this context. I think you're saying it's the job of the school board to strong-arm people who dare to openly pray when they are on public property.

In which case, you're full of shit. No, the school board is not an enforcement committee charged with racing up on the stage and hustling off radical prayers to the back.

And it's perfectly appropriate for a child graduating from a public school to lead those who wish to join in, in a solemn prayer. It's a shame they aren't allowed to just close with a prayer, and it's a shame that the mere mention of "God" brings the roof crashing down and signals the end of that person's moment on stage...if we were true to the Constitution, the valedictorian would be able to say their speech and lead in prayer and there would be no uproar at all.

(My bold)

Prayer may be appropriate, I didn't see in the coverage if there was an invocation, by a member of the clergy. I would expect there would have been, it being fairly common practice.

The school board needed to act, because it wasn't merely public property. It was during graduation, in the valedictorian's speech. The admin had cleared the valedictorian's speech - which he made a nice display of trashing & then proceeded to testify & pray (I missed if he led the prayer - did the public act as a congregation, then?) & of course the school board is an enforcement agency - school districts are cases of special government, their oath of office is to the state government, not to the local populace, however constituted. The school board is required to balance the budget, ensure that licensed teachers are hired, the curriculum is taught, attendance is accurate & a host of responsibilities. One of which is to make sure the corporation does not needlessly embroil itself in no-win litigation.

The prayer did not mark the end of the valedictorian's moment, his entire speech marked that he'd broken his word, departed his script, & was flouting the framework of law that a school district operates under. The US Constitution, as I recall, doesn't even mention God by name - the rubric is something like Nature's Creator.

If the valedictorian wanted prayer, he could have arranged something with his minister or pastor, a nice observance @ church, invite all his classmates & parents & family, where of course, he could testify & pray until the cows came home - & everyone would have understood. What he did was take the podium under false pretenses & hijack the proceedings.

There are consequences for that, if any of the students/parents care to pursue them. & the school corporation is on the hook, for failling to exercise their mandated control of proceedings under their nominal auspices.

Not a bad point, he did prove himself to be untrustworthy.

let me ask you this question. would you consider promising to repeal the patriot act if elected and then not only reapproving it but adding more teeth to it untrustworthy?

 

[Ravi]

You would applaude, ravtard, since he didn't make a point at all, except that he views the school board as some sort of policing group, which is ludicrous at best.

I would like to see a link that shows that it is the duty of the school board to police school ceremonies, and halt any un-approved speech or behavior.

There isn't such a link. As I said before, it is my opinion that he was free to do as he did. That doesn't change the fact that he proved himself untrustworthy.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Nothing valedictorian indicated an untrustworthy character.