Creationists

[daws101]

Really ? I hold a degree in molecular biology thanks for educatiing me in the science method. You think because someone does not agree with you they are not educated in science.

My job for eleven years was to study the effects of mutations and that is exactly why I know the theory of Neo Darwinism to be nonsense.

still telling that lie and expecting someone to believe it
it's alot like the definition of insanity.....

Schooled you fool,you had better hope I have a superior education.

if by schooled, you mean providing hours of amusement by showcasing swaggering ignorance then yes, you schooled me.
any other definition of that you might have had in mind is false.
BTW hope has nothing to do with it ,since it's laughingly obvious you have no education past high school (I have a sneaking suspicion that you didn't graduate)makes any body's education, including mine (masters degree)far superior to yours, almost to the point of excess .

 

[daws101]

Some cases ignorance of the truth,some choose not to believe.

Reason this, something does not come from nothing.

prove it!

Ok little fish, do you believe muslim children are taught Christianity ?

Are you really this stupid,everything is made up of matter.



------------------------------EDITED FOR MEANINGLESS CONTENT----------------------------
FAILED PROOF OF CONCEPT

 

[daws101]

Take it up with God.

In other words, you don't have an answer. And that explains why people like me don't believe in your God -- because neither you, nor any other Christian can explain why your God says one thing, but does completely opposite.

Your God wants people to become Christians, but then he makes sure that Christianity look like a fairy tale. Why?

The only ones that try to make it look like a fairytale is some who can't bring themselves to believe in a higher power and miracles are a problem for them as well.

Besides it is by faith and belief that we are saved.

Romans 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."

Rom. 3:22, "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction."

Rom. 3:26, "for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."

Rom. 10:9-10, "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; 10for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."



Mat 14:28 And Peter answered Him and said, LORD, if it is You, tell me to come to You on the water.
Mat 14:29 And He said, Come. And when Peter had come down out of the boat, he walked on the water to go to Jesus.
Mat 14:30 But seeing that the wind was strong, he was afraid. And beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me!
Mat 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and caught him; and said to him, Little-faith! Why did you doubt?

Mat 17:14 And when they came to the crowd, a man came to Him, kneeling down to Him and saying,
Mat 17:15 Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is a lunatic and grievously vexed; for oftentimes he falls into the fire, and often into the water.
Mat 17:16 And I brought him to Your disciples, and they could not cure him.
Mat 17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I suffer you? Bring him here to Me.
Mat 17:18 And Jesus rebuked the demon, and he departed out of him. And the child was cured from that very hour.
Mat 17:19 Then the disciples came to Jesus apart, and said, Why could we not cast him out?
Mat 17:20 And Jesus said to them, Because of your unbelief. For truly I say to you, If you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you shall say to this mountain, Move from here to there. And it shall move. And nothing shall be impossible to you.

In other words, you don't have an answer. SO STFU!

 

[ilia25]

Well if you are gonna close your eyes to the design that surrounds you ,so be it

OK, I will make it simple for you. Most people live with the eyes wide open -- otherwise they will be stumbling over every rock and bumping into every light post. They look into the Universe, but they don't see God in it because he either do not exists, or because He is hiding!

Why can't he just come to Manhattan, part the waters in the Upper Bay to garb the people attention and tell them what is going on? He had no problems doing that thousands years ago, so why not now?

Rerally,not according to God.

2Co 4:4 in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving ones, so that the light of the glorious gospel of Christ (who is the image of God) should not dawn on them.

The god of this world is satan.

Again, if my mind is blinded by satan, then how can it be MY sin? I am the victim here, not the perpetrator!

And the question remains -- how come the real God, omnipotent no less, allows satan to blind me? Having free will would have no difference if I can't make the right choice because I was blinded by satan! CICO, as any good designer would say. And God is supposed to be a good designer, isn't it?

 

[UltimateReality]

Is it hard for you to grasp that there was no free oxygen on Earth when the first RNA molecule had formed? And why it could not form in water?

Prove there was no free oxygen when life began. You are relying on speculation not fact.

There is one thing you need to understand about science -- it does not provide absolute proof of anything. It is all "speculations", although the right word is "theory".

So please, stop faulting TOE for being a theory.

Then please stop presenting it as the FACT of evolution. I think we could "all just get along" if this happened. Instead, materialists regularly state speculation as fact.

 

[UltimateReality]

Many will find out the hard way that it is not a fairy-tale.

That's the God's plan, in His infinite mercy?

His mercy is to allow you to continue sinning and choose the road before you.

It's called freewill but he is a just God and no sin goes unpunished.

Under the TOE, there is no such thing as free will. This is a really great way not to accept any personal responsibility for your actions. No choice. No God. No accountability. So we went from "the devil made me do it" to "my genes made me to it". Here we see how we can get so far off track ethically with materialistic religion. Should we be appalled at the man who abducts other men, sodomizes them, and then hacks them into little pieces and puts them in his freezer? Heck no under the TOE. HE did not have free will. He was just a "product of his environment" (NS).

You see I just can't help it.... but hey... "I'm on the right track baby, I was born this way."

 

[Montrovant]

That's the God's plan, in His infinite mercy?

His mercy is to allow you to continue sinning and choose the road before you.

It's called freewill but he is a just God and no sin goes unpunished.

Under the TOE, there is no such thing as free will. This is a really great way not to accept any personal responsibility for your actions. No choice. No God. No accountability. So we went from "the devil made me do it" to "my genes made me to it". Here we see how we can get so far off track ethically with materialistic religion. Should we be appalled at the man who abducts other men, sodomizes them, and then hacks them into little pieces and puts them in his freezer? Heck no under the TOE. HE did not have free will. He was just a "product of his environment" (NS).

You see I just can't help it.... but hey... "I'm on the right track baby, I was born this way."

Wow, you really are .

Any chance you could detail how the theory of evolution makes the claim there is no such thing as free will?

We don't even need to get into the question of whether a god who created everything and knows everything that ever has or ever will happen makes free will an impossibility.

EDIT : Just to be clear, before you say that natural selection is your answer, natural selection does not make any claims about free will that I know of.

 

[UltimateReality]

So what prevents most people from becoming "The true person of God"? Wrong upbringing? Or are the born that way? Or maybe they just have the ability to reason?

Some cases ignorance of the truth

Impossible -- most people who are not Christians have access to the Bible and its preachers. So they know the message, they just aren't interested.

some choose not to believe.

How can you choose not to believe that the sky is blue? How can you choose not to believe that if you drop a pencil, it will fall on the floor?

You can lie about your beliefs, but you can't choose what you sincerely believe is truth. So when most people conclude that Christianity is a myth, it is not because they choose to be that way. It is merely the way they experience the world around them -- they just don't see any evidence that the God is out there!

Maybe you just choose not to see it...

Psalm 19

1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge.
3 They have no speech, they use no words;
no sound is heard from them.
4 Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.

 

[ilia25]

Prove there was no free oxygen when life began. You are relying on speculation not fact.

There is one thing you need to understand about science -- it does not provide absolute proof of anything. It is all "speculations", although the right word is "theory".

So please, stop faulting TOE for being a theory.

Then please stop presenting it as the FACT of evolution. I think we could "all just get along" if this happened. Instead, materialists regularly state speculation as fact.

We are not presenting it as a fact. We just say there is 0.00000.....000001 chance of it not being true, end even less chance of Christianity being something more than a myth.

A proposition that the display, which you are reading this words from actually exists is a theory. And a proposition that the Earth is flat is also a theory. But the former is infinitely more useful than the latter. Same is true about TOE and science vs any religion.

 

[UltimateReality]

His mercy is to allow you to continue sinning and choose the road before you.

It's called freewill but he is a just God and no sin goes unpunished.

Under the TOE, there is no such thing as free will. This is a really great way not to accept any personal responsibility for your actions. No choice. No God. No accountability. So we went from "the devil made me do it" to "my genes made me to it". Here we see how we can get so far off track ethically with materialistic religion. Should we be appalled at the man who abducts other men, sodomizes them, and then hacks them into little pieces and puts them in his freezer? Heck no under the TOE. HE did not have free will. He was just a "product of his environment" (NS).

You see I just can't help it.... but hey... "I'm on the right track baby, I was born this way."

Wow, you really are .

Any chance you could detail how the theory of evolution makes the claim there is no such thing as free will?

We don't even need to get into the question of whether a god who created everything and knows everything that ever has or ever will happen makes free will an impossibility.

EDIT : Just to be clear, before you say that natural selection is your answer, natural selection does not make any claims about free will that I know of.

That's understandable. You should know what you believe...

William B. Provine

Will Provine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Watch for 3 minutes...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9W1Y_PmhSI]Darwinism: Science or Naturalistic Philosophy (5 of 11) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[UltimateReality]

There is one thing you need to understand about science -- it does not provide absolute proof of anything. It is all "speculations", although the right word is "theory".

So please, stop faulting TOE for being a theory.

Then please stop presenting it as the FACT of evolution. I think we could "all just get along" if this happened. Instead, materialists regularly state speculation as fact.

We are not presenting it as a fact. We just say there is 0.00000.....000001 chance of it not being true, end even less chance of Christianity being something more than a myth.

Well, hallelujah!!! I'll take those odds. They are way better than the one in 1 x 10(n=80) chance that amino acids self-assembled.

 

[ilia25]

Some cases ignorance of the truth

Impossible -- most people who are not Christians have access to the Bible and its preachers. So they know the message, they just aren't interested.

some choose not to believe.

How can you choose not to believe that the sky is blue? How can you choose not to believe that if you drop a pencil, it will fall on the floor?

You can lie about your beliefs, but you can't choose what you sincerely believe is truth. So when most people conclude that Christianity is a myth, it is not because they choose to be that way. It is merely the way they experience the world around them -- they just don't see any evidence that the God is out there!

Maybe you just choose not to see it...

Again, I cannot make that choice. A healthy person is not capable of choosing what his eyes see, what laws of logic to use, what facts to ignore or imagine. You can only lie about it.

And even if I was capable of making that choice, why would I make it? Religion is a great thing, it can give you inner peace, sense of belonging and what not. That is why it remains popular.

The problem is not that my eyes are closed -- it is the opposite. I know too much, enough to see any religion for what it really is.

 

[ilia25]

Then please stop presenting it as the FACT of evolution. I think we could "all just get along" if this happened. Instead, materialists regularly state speculation as fact.

We are not presenting it as a fact. We just say there is 0.00000.....000001 chance of it not being true, end even less chance of Christianity being something more than a myth.

Well, hallelujah!!! I'll take those odds. They are way better than the one in 1 x 10(n=80) chance that amino acids self-assembled.

How did you come up with that number?

 

[Inquisitor]

Is it hard for you to grasp that there was no free oxygen on Earth when the first RNA molecule had formed? And why it could not form in water?

Prove there was no free oxygen when life began. You are relying on speculation not fact.

There is one thing you need to understand about science -- it does not provide absolute proof of anything. It is all "speculations", although the right word is "theory".

So please, stop faulting TOE for being a theory.

There are many theories in Science, but also many facts.

Science, for the most part relies on empirical evidence. Gravity for example. If you think gravity is speculation try dropping a heavy object on your foot.

There are many "theories" about exactly what Gravity is and these involve speculation.

That gravity exists is fact.

 

[ilia25]

Prove there was no free oxygen when life began. You are relying on speculation not fact.

There is one thing you need to understand about science -- it does not provide absolute proof of anything. It is all "speculations", although the right word is "theory".

So please, stop faulting TOE for being a theory.

There are many theories in Science, but also many facts.

Science, for the most part relies on empirical evidence. Gravity for example. If you think gravity is speculation try dropping a heavy object on your foot.

I know that dropping something heavy on your foot probably is not a good idea. What science says is that you can't be 100% sure about that. Or about anything. If anything, it can all be in your head.

 

[ilia25]

Here we see how we can get so far off track ethically with materialistic religion.

1. Stop calling materialistic view a religion -- that is a bull. Having no faith means you are not following any religion.
2. You can get off track ethically with Christianity as well, and much easier than with atheistic view (how many people commit atrocities believing they are serving God?)

And recognizing that an environment or a mental illness can lead people to making bad choices in not unethical. Even most Christians now get it.

 

[LOki]

Under the TOE, there is no such thing as free will. This is a really great way not to accept any personal responsibility for your actions. No choice. No God. No accountability. So we went from "the devil made me do it" to "my genes made me to it". Here we see how we can get so far off track ethically with materialistic religion. Should we be appalled at the man who abducts other men, sodomizes them, and then hacks them into little pieces and puts them in his freezer? Heck no under the TOE. HE did not have free will. He was just a "product of his environment" (NS).

You see I just can't help it.... but hey... "I'm on the right track baby, I was born this way."

100% made-up-nonsense.

 

[Montrovant]

Under the TOE, there is no such thing as free will. This is a really great way not to accept any personal responsibility for your actions. No choice. No God. No accountability. So we went from "the devil made me do it" to "my genes made me to it". Here we see how we can get so far off track ethically with materialistic religion. Should we be appalled at the man who abducts other men, sodomizes them, and then hacks them into little pieces and puts them in his freezer? Heck no under the TOE. HE did not have free will. He was just a "product of his environment" (NS).

You see I just can't help it.... but hey... "I'm on the right track baby, I was born this way."

Wow, you really are .

Any chance you could detail how the theory of evolution makes the claim there is no such thing as free will?

We don't even need to get into the question of whether a god who created everything and knows everything that ever has or ever will happen makes free will an impossibility.

EDIT : Just to be clear, before you say that natural selection is your answer, natural selection does not make any claims about free will that I know of.

That's understandable. You should know what you believe...

William B. Provine

Will Provine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Watch for 3 minutes...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9W1Y_PmhSI]Darwinism: Science or Naturalistic Philosophy (5 of 11) - YouTube[/ame]

So this particular man thinks that there is no free will, therefor it is a tenet of evolutionary theory? I'm sorry, but that's a stretch. Even in the video, it says that the lack of free will is his personal conclusion. What we have here is someone taking evolutionary theory and concluding, based on it, that certain things not covered by the theory are true. He doesn't even give a good explanation for how it flows from evolutionary theory that free will doesn't exist.

 

[UltimateReality]

Under the TOE, there is no such thing as free will. This is a really great way not to accept any personal responsibility for your actions. No choice. No God. No accountability. So we went from "the devil made me do it" to "my genes made me to it". Here we see how we can get so far off track ethically with materialistic religion. Should we be appalled at the man who abducts other men, sodomizes them, and then hacks them into little pieces and puts them in his freezer? Heck no under the TOE. HE did not have free will. He was just a "product of his environment" (NS).

You see I just can't help it.... but hey... "I'm on the right track baby, I was born this way."

100% made-up-nonsense.

Why don't you post an intellectually honest rebuttal? Or do you only know how to spew words without a point?

Like I said before, your boy Provine said it, not me. So if I am citing an actual materialistic high priest, I supposet that is a strawman too. pffff. Whatever.

 

[UltimateReality]

Wow, you really are .

Any chance you could detail how the theory of evolution makes the claim there is no such thing as free will?

We don't even need to get into the question of whether a god who created everything and knows everything that ever has or ever will happen makes free will an impossibility.

EDIT : Just to be clear, before you say that natural selection is your answer, natural selection does not make any claims about free will that I know of.

That's understandable. You should know what you believe...

William B. Provine

Will Provine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Watch for 3 minutes...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9W1Y_PmhSI]Darwinism: Science or Naturalistic Philosophy (5 of 11) - YouTube[/ame]

So this particular man thinks that there is no free will, therefor it is a tenet of evolutionary theory? I'm sorry, but that's a stretch. Even in the video, it says that the lack of free will is his personal conclusion. What we have here is someone taking evolutionary theory and concluding, based on it, that certain things not covered by the theory are true. He doesn't even give a good explanation for how it flows from evolutionary theory that free will doesn't exist.

This guy is a well respected Materialist High Priest. He is widely known for dissing ID Theorists. He is an evolutionary biology historian professor at Cornell. The credentials don't get much better than these. The real truth is, the same thing you bag on Christians for, i.e., not knowing their doctrine, is rampant in your religion. You Materialists don't know what you believe!!! Please man, learn your doctrines!!