- Banned
- #181
I don't see 'the Enlightenment' in the vast majority of the writings and arguments of the Founders. I know Atheists and Agnostics are fond of characterizing most of the Founders as Deists; i.e. children of the Enlightenment, but that simply doesn't hold up under honest scrutiny. The Enlightenment, like all Humanist trends/thought, puts the power in the hands of humans to be directed by human logic and reason.
The Founders, while assigning unalienable rights to the individual, and while placing responsibility to act and consequences for acting wrongly on the individual, were also almost uniformly agreed that those rights were from the Creator and only by the power of that Creator will a religiously faithful and moral people be able to act rightly. In other words, the Constitution would work for no other.
That was quite different from humanist doctrines/the Enlightenment.
What the Enlightenment did accomplish was to break the prescribed molds and promoted freedom of thought and conviction free of consequences of threats of hell, excommunication, the Inquisition, etc.
And the Founders did incorporate that into their conviction to no longer allow the Church of England or any other religious entity have power to restrict the people's freedom of thought or any other freedoms against their will.
I agree with some of what you are saying but the while the founders did have a general consensus on morality, that consensus lay with competing authorities. Some believed it lay with religion, others considered the possibility of a secular moral authority.Their positions were complex and hardly unified. Because they did not agree on the foundations of morality they defined it in both religious and secular terms. I think that the fact that they entertained such thought indicates the influence of the Enlightenment.
I don't know if "most" of the Founders were Deists, but a significant number were, with more showing signs they may have been at least thinking in that direction.
I always found it interesting that they referred to "their Creator"...not God.
No, they seldom referred to God as 'the Creator'. They sometimes did so in official documents to reflect that we would not be a theocracy in America, but rather a place where people would be free to follow their own beliefs and convictions and where people would be allowed liberty by whatever name they called or referred to their God. The 'Enlightenment' ushered in a new interest in the classics and resurgence of the original 'enlightenment' in ancient Greek thought, and provided the trigger for the Reformation and a concept of humanism, and while it affected their overall culture, it was not where the Founders were at the time they created this great nation.
However much they included the necessity and importance of religious tolerance in the law of the land, you will find very few, if any, Deists in the group, They were pretty much of one accord that if America should ever abandon its Christian values and roots, the great experiment would then fail.
The First Charter of Virginia (granted by King James I, on April 10, 1606)
We, greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory of his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God
Not there for the writing of the Constitution.
William Bradford wrote that they [the Pilgrims] were seeking:
2) The great hope, and for the propagating and advancing the gospel of the kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of the world
Not there for the writing of the Constitution.
John Adams and John Hancock:
"We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!" [April 18, 1775]
Neither there for the writing of the Constitution.
John Adams: The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.
[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.
Not there for the writing of the Constitution.
Samuel Adams: He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all Our forefathers opened the Bible to all. [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]
Not there for the writing of the Constitution.
John Quincy Adams: Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?"
Not there for the writing of the Constitution....and are you sure you want to add this one? Sounds like he is comparing the Fourth of July with a religion...on equal footing. Besides, didn't he also state in the Treaty of Tripoli that the U.S. was not founded on Christianity?
Elias Boudinot: Be religiously careful in our choice of all public officers . . . and judge of the tree by its fruits.
Isn't his statement against the Constitution, Article VI which states "but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification of any Office or public Trust under the United States."
Benjamin Franklin: God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?
An avowed Deist.
Alexander Hamilton: "For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]
One...and a bit of a Monarchist too.
Patrick Henry: It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here. [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
Refused to attend the Constitutional Convention. Said he "smelt a rat" and fought against the Constitution as a prominent Anti-Federalist.
John Jay: Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. Source: October 12, 1816.
Wasn't at Constitutional Convention and I guess he didn't read that pesky Article Vi either.
Thomas Jefferson: The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.
Wasn't at Constitutional Convention and what about his Danbury letter about the wall between church and state?
God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."
James Madison: We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. Weve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God. [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]
OK, let's go with this quote tho there is some question as to whether Madison really said that or not. IS our government based on the 10 Commandments? Well, how many are incorporated into our law system? Can you answer that one for us? Is it all 10? 9? 8? 7? 6? only 50%? How many? (And which of the 3 versions of the 10 commandments was Madison referring to?)
And we could go on and on and on with the quotations that almost all wrote into their speeches, letters, written treatises, etc. etc. etc.
Speeches, quotes, etc. by people mean nothing when it comes to LAW. It is what the Constitution says. Surely you can see that? OR are you just into far religious right talking points?