Could environmentalists agree on scientists and science

[Blues Man]

Would you be okay if they stick to what's allowed by the Constitution and the rule of law?

There is no governmental power that allows them to force me to buy any product or that gives government the right to control any manufacturing businesses.

Why is it you think the government has to be involved at all?

When cars became the dominant mode of transportation the government didn't tell the public they had to fund the building of gas stations. The private sector did it all.

If the people want electric cars then let the consumer drive the change to electric.

 

[Crick]

There is no governmental power that allows them to force me to buy any product or that gives government the right to control any manufacturing businesses.

The government can control what products are available to you and that is all they have ever sought to do here.

Why is it you think the government has to be involved at all?

Because the free market isn't smart enough to care about greenhouse warming.

When cars became the dominant mode of transportation the government didn't tell the public they had to fund the building of gas stations. The private sector did it all.

When cars were killing tens of thousands of people every year, the government began dictating to car makers a number of features their cars had to possess if they wanted to sell them in the US. That continues to this day.

If the people want electric cars then let the consumer drive the change to electric.

The government has the right to ban internal combustion engines and within the next decade or so they and all the other governments on the planet, will be doing so.

 

[Blues Man]

The government can control what products are available to you and that is all they have ever sought to do here.

Because the free market isn't smart enough to care about greenhouse warming.

When cars were killing tens of thousands of people every year, the government began dictating to car makers a number of features their cars had to possess if they wanted to sell them in the US. That continues to this day.

The government has the right to ban internal combustion engines and within the next decade or so they and all the other governments on the planet, will be doing so.

It's not the government's concern and not the government's role to force people to buy electric cars.

And they might try but it ain't gonna happen.

There is no way we will have the infrastructure to support that in 10 years, no way we will have the additional grid capacity in 10 years and if you don't think that all those rare earth minerals you need for your beloved batteries aren't in more limited supply that fossil fuels you have some research to do. Not to mention the horrific human toll that mining takes but you say you care about people dying. How about kids working in mines ? What about the ecological disaster these mines are? Doesn;t matter as long as you don't see it right?

And we'll just be more dependent on China for all these minerals since we won't allow any mining in this country for them

There has to be a better way that electric cars.

But you're all so fixated on it you can't think of anything else.

 

[Crick]

It's not the government's concern and not the government's role to force people to buy electric cars.

It IS the government's concern and the fullfillment of their role to stop people from driving ICE vehicles.

And they might try but it ain't gonna happen.

Petroleum fueled ICE vehicles will eventually be banned worldwide. Hydrogen ICE vehicles could continue.

There is no way we will have the infrastructure to support that in 10 years, no way we will have the additional grid capacity in 10 years and if you don't think that all those rare earth minerals you need for your beloved batteries aren't in more limited supply that fossil fuels you have some research to do. Not to mention the horrific human toll that mining takes but you say you care about people dying. How about kids working in mines ? What about the ecological disaster these mines are? Doesn;t matter as long as you don't see it right?

The number one priority is to stop burning fossil fuels, however it gets accomplished.

And we'll just be more dependent on China for all these minerals since we won't allow any mining in this country for them

The US has significant rare earth deposits and the need for them is significantly lesssened in new battery designs.

There has to be a better way that electric cars.

Fuel cells running on green hydrogen

But you're all so fixated on it you can't think of anything else.

You seem to be the fixated one. I see lots of options and I'm not even trying.

 

[ding]

Petroleum fueled ICE vehicles will eventually be banned worldwide.

By who? The climate Nazis?

 

[ding]

Petroleum fueled ICE vehicles will eventually be banned worldwide. Hydrogen ICE vehicles could continue.

Have you even looked at the oil production data?

World Annual Oil Production and Peak Oil | The Geography of Transport Systems

transportgeography.org

 

[Blues Man]

It IS the government's concern and the fullfillment of their role to stop people from driving ICE vehicles.

Petroleum fueled ICE vehicles will eventually be banned worldwide. Hydrogen ICE vehicles could continue.

The number one priority is to stop burning fossil fuels, however it gets accomplished.

The US has significant rare earth deposits and the need for them is significantly lesssened in new battery designs.

Fuel cells running on green hydrogen

You seem to be the fixated one. I see lots of options and I'm not even trying.

Where does it say anywhere the the government's role is to stop people from using ICE engines?

FYI it takes more energy to make pure hydrogen than it does to drive the car and guess where that power is going to come from.

And no the number one priority is not to stop burning fuels. All we need is a significant reduction not some pie in the sky zero tolerance policy.

And there will not be one state that will allow mining. All you people are strict adherents to NIMBY and the only reason those rare earth minerals are cheap is because they are mined by slave labor in poor countries and they don;t give a shit about the environmental cost.

 

[Crick]

Where does it say anywhere the the government's role is to stop people from using ICE engines?

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of ...

FYI it takes more energy to make pure hydrogen than it does to drive the car and guess where that power is going to come from.

The sun, the wind, the tides, the waves and whatever processes produced it and buried it deep in the earth in millennia past.

And no the number one priority is not to stop burning fuels. All we need is a significant reduction not some pie in the sky zero tolerance policy.

COP28 just disagreed with you.

And there will not be one state that will allow mining.

Several states already do.

All you people are strict adherents to NIMBY

And you people do not?

and the only reason those rare earth minerals are cheap is because they are mined by slave labor in poor countries and they don;t give a shit about the environmental cost.

Which is a good reason for the developments of the last few years dramatically reducing the need for them.

 

[Libby von H]

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of ...

The sun, the wind, the tides, the waves and whatever processes produced it and buried it deep in the earth in millennia past.

COP28 just disagreed with you.

Several states already do.

And you people do not?

Which is a good reason for the developments of the last few years dramatically reducing the need for them.

Millions of children died when this first started with Silent Spring

I have heard this in many differing contexts
"
“In her groundbreaking book, Silent Spring, Carson … made one critical mistake,” Offit writes, “and it cost millions of people their lives.”

In his essay, Offit says Carson exaggerated the possible side effects of DDT in her landmark work. That caused the once-popular insecticide to be pulled from the market — and led to a rise in malaria in many countries."

 

[Crick]

Millions of children died when this first started with Silent Spring

I have heard this in many differing contexts
"
“In her groundbreaking book, Silent Spring, Carson … made one critical mistake,” Offit writes, “and it cost millions of people their lives.”

In his essay, Offit says Carson exaggerated the possible side effects of DDT in her landmark work. That caused the once-popular insecticide to be pulled from the market — and led to a rise in malaria in many countries."

Link please

Your author has exaggerated the toll or malaria after the DDT ban.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Malaria-mortality-in-the-20th-century-The-graph-shows-the-total-number-of-deaths-due-to_fig2_11094305

DDT was banned by the US in 1972.

 

[Blues Man]

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of ...

The sun, the wind, the tides, the waves and whatever processes produced it and buried it deep in the earth in millennia past.

COP28 just disagreed with you.

Several states already do.

And you people do not?

Which is a good reason for the developments of the last few years dramatically reducing the need for them.

How many rare earth mines are there in the US today?

How many more will be needed so we are not dependent on a foreign country for our supply?

The prices of nickel copper and cobalt are all going up nit down therefore batteries are getting more expensive to make not less.

Not to mention the fact that a EV manufacture is heavily front loaded as far as emissions are concerned and that all the big heavy full size electric sedans and SUVs might not ever actually hit the tipping point where the lower emission operation will overcome the front loaded emission footprint.

And lets not forget what cars that are substantially heavier will do to our already shitty roads.

So tell you what when you have your pie in the sky 100% wind and solar grid get back to me

 

[Crick]

How many rare earth mines are there in the US today?

How many more will be needed so we are not dependent on a foreign country for our supply?

The prices of nickel copper and cobalt are all going up nit down therefore batteries are getting more expensive to make not less.

Not to mention the fact that a EV manufacture is heavily front loaded as far as emissions are concerned and that all the big heavy full size electric sedans and SUVs might not ever actually hit the tipping point where the lower emission operation will overcome the front loaded emission footprint.

And lets not forget what cars that are substantially heavier will do to our already shitty roads.

So tell you what when you have your pie in the sky 100% wind and solar grid get back to me

This idea that more CO2 will be produced building an EV than it will save is an argument for two groups: those too stupid to add 2 and 2 and those who don't care that the claim is a blatantly demonstrable lie.

 

[Blues Man]

This idea that more CO2 will be produced building an EV than it will save is an argument for two groups: those too stupid to add 2 and 2 and those who don't care that the claim is a blatantly demonstrable lie.

Really?

Electric cars may be the future, but they're still critically flawed in a key area

Lithium-ion batteries require a lot of energy to produce. So, too, does the extraction and refinement of metals like lithium, nickel, and cobalt.

www.businessinsider.com

Studies have shown that in the US, Europe, and in China, producing an electric vehicle creates more greenhouse-gas emissions than producing an equivalent gas-powered vehicle.

Here's how long EVs have to be driven before they save emissions versus gas cars

Electric vehicles must spend a while on the road before they reduce carbon emissions relative to gas-powered cars, an environmental consideration looming over President Joe Biden's push to electrify the vehicle fleet.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

A 2021 study from Volvo Motors found that the production and manufacturing of its C40 Recharge electric model generates 70% more emissions than its gas vehicle counterpart, the XC40.