Corporate welfare in action ....

[Brain357]

There are several articles on this subject that refutes what you claim.

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? Of course it is. Or do you think it's better for business to leave that mall in a pile of rubble?

They need a tax deal to keep their prices lower and provide good paying jobs with the best of benefits as the article outlines.

Lots of construction, lots of good paying jobs afterwards, the school system makes out, the taxpayers make out, even the state makes out. The domino effect of companies that provide Amazon with packing materials, trucking, and technology a plus.

Everybody wins, and tax abatements are responsible for it.

Good paying jobs? You're kidding, right?

It's already been posted on this board.

A supervisor at Amazon makes $15.65/hr which is crap pay. You have to stand for 8 hours in heat up to 90 degrees because Amazon doesn't believe in air conditioning. To qualify you need a bachelor's degree. Would anyone in their right mind pay $50K for an education for that job?

The American worker is woefully underpaid.

Amazon doesn't need subsidies. Period.

Really? I didn't see anybody post an article on the exact wages Amazon plans on paying. Did you? In spite of the many written articles on this new outlet of theirs, they all seem to contradict what you're claiming here. But they are wrong and you are right. So typically liberal of you.

If the village offered Amazon this deal, it's because the village and city are making out. Amazon is getting a 75% abatement on land taxes which means they are going to be paying 25% tax on nearly 70 acres of city land. And as my one article pointed out, that's on top of the employee city taxes they will be paying.

We'll be glad to take this new center to help our economy any day of the week. And if you bothered to read the article (which I'm sure you didn't) they are also looking at another closed down mall (about 15 miles from North Randall) for another new project. We'll take all the new jobs we can get.

fks on the left know fking everything don't you know? even if it isn't advertised, they know it. ask them.

So do you claim to be a conservative? But you want the government picking winners and losers? Like solyndra?

I'm against handing money to corporations like Solydra and GM. I'm all for tax incentives to grow business and jobs. I'm fking way in for that.

So you think government intervention is good for an economy? So you don't believe in free market capitalism?

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Still waiting for an example, you know so I can destroy you.

I call it corporate welfare. You haven't came up with a suitable term. Obviously, it's not "fantasy" when they're being given millions. So, try again.

they haven't been given anything. that's your entire problem. it's what makes you look stupid.

Govt. gives businesses money all the time, dude.

And for this particular case, you've shown no documentation to support your claim. You come off as a a total f*cking hack.

huh? Solydra got a fking boat load of money and failed. I agree they do, but for the OP that isn't what is happening, so learn the difference between subsidizing and tax incentives.

Tax incentives is free money too, basically.

 

[OnePercenter]

You can dispute the exact amount all you like, but the fact is that a huge new business would be imposing a significant additional cost on city and state government. Just the additional traffic would be a significant additional cost.

And you don't think the city or state had that figured out when they made the offer? What are those additional costs? A new stoplight or two, perhaps an additional lane to a main road?

Thousands of additional cars that inflict wear and tear on the roads, plus the additional personnel needed to police them.

No, cars do not do all that much damage to the roads. Up here, it's mostly the snow and ice. The new Amazon will be built on Route 8 which already has trucks on it. Plus when the North Randall Mall was built, they built the roads wide enough to handle heavy traffic. After all, during it's day, North Randall Mall was the largest mall in the country, and people from all over the country to shop there.

Isn't it ironic that what closed the mall is taking it's place?

Is the village ready for double or triple the truck traffic which will increase maintenance?

How long before the citizens of the village realize they need that 75% discount on property taxes?

Amazon is a Delaware corporation, so the village doesn't share in tax revenue.

What closed the mall was crime and more malls that were built since the time it opened. It had very little to do with online shopping.

Where do you get this double or triple truck traffic from anyway? Randall Mall sat between two state routes: Route 8 and route 43. Both were widened before Randall Park Mall opened back in the 70s to accommodate more traffic. Because they are state routes, the state kicks in money for maintenance and repair.

You say crime closed the mall and more malls were built in the area? Whats wrong with that statement?

Bad management closed the mall.

Amazon is building an 855,000sq/ft distribution center. Easily 100+ trucks every day on roads built in the late 90's.

The State 'shares' costs.

btw, how much did Amazon pay for the property?

 

[OnePercenter]

Still waiting for an example, you know so I can destroy you.

Government spends more on corporate welfare than social welfare.

Social welfare adds $1.70 to the economy for every $1.00 spent. Corporate welfare adds zero, and in some cases causes a negative.

That's pure bullshit. Welfare doesn't add a dime to "the economy," whatever that is supposed to mean.

Perhaps not in Canada, but in the United States of America;

Those who believe in cutting SNAP funding as a cost-saving measure should know that food stamps boost the economy -- not put a strain on it. Supporters of federal food benefits programs including President George W. Bush understood this, and proved the economic value of SNAP by sanctioning a USDA study that found that $1 in SNAP benefits generates $1.84 in gross domestic product (GDP). Mark Zandi, of Moody's Economy.com, confirmed the economic boost in an independent study that found that every SNAP dollar spent generates $1.73 in real GDP increase. "Expanding food stamps," the study read, "is the most effective way to prime the economy's pump."

The Economic Case for Food Stamps

This is false.

The value in the economy is determine by production. Food is consumed, but absolutely nothing is produced. The entire economy is worse off from snap.

If that claim was true, then we should encourage everyone in the entire country to live off the government, and not work. Now tell me, even in your socialist warped mind, how our country would fair if everyone lived off food stamps?

We already know. It's called the former Soviet Union, where people were starving to death, and engaging in cannibalism to survive.

It's the modern state of Venezuela today, where they are now having food riots.

But according to you, the endless subsidies in Venezuela for food, should have spurred a massive economic boom. Instead, they are on the verge of collapse.

Monetary spending creates the need for production.

 

[OnePercenter]

Ok so then if there are no services to be paid for give the same deal to all corporations in the city. Wait you already said they can't afford to do that. So then there are obviously services to be paid for.

Ok so you are calling it a big win for the town without any details? You sound like a politician. I suspect by the time the details are released and not so good, things will be too far along...

Do you think this is new or something? CEO's and city leaders have been dealing with this issue for decades.

I never said there are no city services to be paid for, I said that the new company won't be generating a need for them.

I just showed you I would.

I'm on the same side as you on most issues, but you're wrong on this one. These tax abatement schemes are corporate welfare. Even if one state or city benefits from an individual case, when they all do it they are just playing beggar thy neighbor and they all get screwed. The taxpayers end up subsidizing certain favored corporations and screwing all the other businesses in the city.

Not really because the other businesses will not be affected. They will have the same business, pay the same taxes they've always paid, nothing will change for them.

What happens is the city gets a new tax revenue stream. That's good for everybody involved.

Amazon receives a 75% subsidy on property taxes and other businesses get NOTHING?

How is that good?

Every business that offers to spend millions developing new land, can get the tax abatement. Everyone that offers to invest that kind of money, can get the tax abatement.

They didn't pick Amazon because they like Amazon, and Bob knows Dan, who knows Tim, who knows Fred at Amazon.

They picked Amazon because the company offered to spend multi-millions investing and developing the land.

ANY company that offers that, can get a tax break.

Amazon is getting FREE land AND a tax abatement.

Why does a company with $136B in revenue (2016) need a tax abatement?

 

[OnePercenter]

Still waiting for an example, you know so I can destroy you.

I call it corporate welfare. You haven't came up with a suitable term. Obviously, it's not "fantasy" when they're being given millions. So, try again.

they haven't been given anything. that's your entire problem. it's what makes you look stupid.

Govt. gives businesses money all the time, dude.

And for this particular case, you've shown no documentation to support your claim. You come off as a a total f*cking hack.

huh? Solydra got a fking boat load of money and failed. I agree they do, but for the OP that isn't what is happening, so learn the difference between subsidizing and tax incentives.

Why did Solyndra fail?

 

[OnePercenter]

There are several articles on this subject that refutes what you claim.

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? Of course it is. Or do you think it's better for business to leave that mall in a pile of rubble?

They need a tax deal to keep their prices lower and provide good paying jobs with the best of benefits as the article outlines.

Lots of construction, lots of good paying jobs afterwards, the school system makes out, the taxpayers make out, even the state makes out. The domino effect of companies that provide Amazon with packing materials, trucking, and technology a plus.

Everybody wins, and tax abatements are responsible for it.

Good paying jobs? You're kidding, right?

It's already been posted on this board.

A supervisor at Amazon makes $15.65/hr which is crap pay. You have to stand for 8 hours in heat up to 90 degrees because Amazon doesn't believe in air conditioning. To qualify you need a bachelor's degree. Would anyone in their right mind pay $50K for an education for that job?

The American worker is woefully underpaid.

Amazon doesn't need subsidies. Period.

Really? I didn't see anybody post an article on the exact wages Amazon plans on paying. Did you? In spite of the many written articles on this new outlet of theirs, they all seem to contradict what you're claiming here. But they are wrong and you are right. So typically liberal of you.

If the village offered Amazon this deal, it's because the village and city are making out. Amazon is getting a 75% abatement on land taxes which means they are going to be paying 25% tax on nearly 70 acres of city land. And as my one article pointed out, that's on top of the employee city taxes they will be paying.

We'll be glad to take this new center to help our economy any day of the week. And if you bothered to read the article (which I'm sure you didn't) they are also looking at another closed down mall (about 15 miles from North Randall) for another new project. We'll take all the new jobs we can get.

fks on the left know fking everything don't you know? even if it isn't advertised, they know it. ask them.

So do you claim to be a conservative? But you want the government picking winners and losers? Like solyndra?

I'm against handing money to corporations like Solydra and GM. I'm all for tax incentives to grow business and jobs. I'm fking way in for that.

What about American companies failing due to foreign subsidized competition?

 

[Markle]

Who pays for private schools if not taxpayers?

Please elaborate.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And you don't think the city or state had that figured out when they made the offer? What are those additional costs? A new stoplight or two, perhaps an additional lane to a main road?

Thousands of additional cars that inflict wear and tear on the roads, plus the additional personnel needed to police them.

No, cars do not do all that much damage to the roads. Up here, it's mostly the snow and ice. The new Amazon will be built on Route 8 which already has trucks on it. Plus when the North Randall Mall was built, they built the roads wide enough to handle heavy traffic. After all, during it's day, North Randall Mall was the largest mall in the country, and people from all over the country to shop there.

Isn't it ironic that what closed the mall is taking it's place?

Is the village ready for double or triple the truck traffic which will increase maintenance?

How long before the citizens of the village realize they need that 75% discount on property taxes?

Amazon is a Delaware corporation, so the village doesn't share in tax revenue.

What closed the mall was crime and more malls that were built since the time it opened. It had very little to do with online shopping.

Where do you get this double or triple truck traffic from anyway? Randall Mall sat between two state routes: Route 8 and route 43. Both were widened before Randall Park Mall opened back in the 70s to accommodate more traffic. Because they are state routes, the state kicks in money for maintenance and repair.

You say crime closed the mall and more malls were built in the area? Whats wrong with that statement?

Bad management closed the mall.

Amazon is building an 855,000sq/ft distribution center. Easily 100+ trucks every day on roads built in the late 90's.

The State 'shares' costs.

btw, how much did Amazon pay for the property?

Do you know what 100 additional trucks on roads already heavily used by trucks means? Absolutely nothing. The Industrial complex up the road from the mall probably gets more than that; I should know, I deliver to that area all the time.

Yes, bad management did not help, but it was more the environment that they created. They used to allow people to hang outside by the doors......especially by the cinemas. If a white person walked to those doors, they were made fun of and at times spit upon. Dead bodies were found in the parking lots. Cars were either broken into or stolen all the time. A friend of my sister told me her brother was attacked by blacks in the restroom. He got the best of them because he was a high school wrestling champ, but still ended up wounded.

When better and safer malls were built, people flocked to those instead. Randall Park Mall became the ghetto of malls, and nothing could be done about it.

 

[Markle]

They're being levied to manipulate behavior.

The entire tax code, income taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, on and on and on are for the purpose of raising capital and manipulating behavior.

June 1st, 2018 New York City will be raising the cost of a PACK of cigarettes from $10.50 to $13,00. Most likely they will get fewer dollars, so what is the purpose? Other strongly encouraging a cigarette black market,

 

[Markle]

so why haven't any bridges been updated ? why is our infrastructure on the verge of collapse?

Our infrastructure is not on the verge of collapse. MOST infrastructure is a local or state expense.

Bridges have and are being updated.

 

[OnePercenter]

Thousands of additional cars that inflict wear and tear on the roads, plus the additional personnel needed to police them.

No, cars do not do all that much damage to the roads. Up here, it's mostly the snow and ice. The new Amazon will be built on Route 8 which already has trucks on it. Plus when the North Randall Mall was built, they built the roads wide enough to handle heavy traffic. After all, during it's day, North Randall Mall was the largest mall in the country, and people from all over the country to shop there.

Isn't it ironic that what closed the mall is taking it's place?

Is the village ready for double or triple the truck traffic which will increase maintenance?

How long before the citizens of the village realize they need that 75% discount on property taxes?

Amazon is a Delaware corporation, so the village doesn't share in tax revenue.

What closed the mall was crime and more malls that were built since the time it opened. It had very little to do with online shopping.

Where do you get this double or triple truck traffic from anyway? Randall Mall sat between two state routes: Route 8 and route 43. Both were widened before Randall Park Mall opened back in the 70s to accommodate more traffic. Because they are state routes, the state kicks in money for maintenance and repair.

You say crime closed the mall and more malls were built in the area? Whats wrong with that statement?

Bad management closed the mall.

Amazon is building an 855,000sq/ft distribution center. Easily 100+ trucks every day on roads built in the late 90's.

The State 'shares' costs.

btw, how much did Amazon pay for the property?

Do you know what 100 additional trucks on roads already heavily used by trucks means? Absolutely nothing. The Industrial complex up the road from the mall probably gets more than that; I should know, I deliver to that area all the time.

Yes, bad management did not help, but it was more the environment that they created. They used to allow people to hang outside by the doors......especially by the cinemas. If a white person walked to those doors, they were made fun of and at times spit upon. Dead bodies were found in the parking lots. Cars were either broken into or stolen all the time. A friend of my sister told me her brother was attacked by blacks in the restroom. He got the best of them because he was a high school wrestling champ, but still ended up wounded.

When better and safer malls were built, people flocked to those instead. Randall Park Mall became the ghetto of malls, and nothing could be done about it.

Another 100+ trucks per day means absolutely nothing on a road that was engineered in the 70's? Please.....

Bad management was the cause of everything you wrote.

btw, how much did Amazon pay for the property?

 

[Andylusion]

Do you think this is new or something? CEO's and city leaders have been dealing with this issue for decades.

I never said there are no city services to be paid for, I said that the new company won't be generating a need for them.

I just showed you I would.

I'm on the same side as you on most issues, but you're wrong on this one. These tax abatement schemes are corporate welfare. Even if one state or city benefits from an individual case, when they all do it they are just playing beggar thy neighbor and they all get screwed. The taxpayers end up subsidizing certain favored corporations and screwing all the other businesses in the city.

Not really because the other businesses will not be affected. They will have the same business, pay the same taxes they've always paid, nothing will change for them.

What happens is the city gets a new tax revenue stream. That's good for everybody involved.

Amazon receives a 75% subsidy on property taxes and other businesses get NOTHING?

How is that good?

Every business that offers to spend millions developing new land, can get the tax abatement. Everyone that offers to invest that kind of money, can get the tax abatement.

They didn't pick Amazon because they like Amazon, and Bob knows Dan, who knows Tim, who knows Fred at Amazon.

They picked Amazon because the company offered to spend multi-millions investing and developing the land.

ANY company that offers that, can get a tax break.

Amazon is getting FREE land AND a tax abatement.

Why does a company with $136B in revenue (2016) need a tax abatement?

It doesn't "need" anything.

How many mechanics shops offer special deals and discounts to get you to buy from their shop? How many $10 off your next oil change? Or buy 3 tiers, get the 4th one free?

Tons of them do. Do you "need" to get $10 off your next oil change? No you don't. Are you opposed to all those deals too, since you don't "need" it?

Now, I still found it interesting when you mentioned 'free' land. Most of the deals I've looked at, do not involve free land. So I was interested to see what was going on here.

So I started to do some digging, which is what I normally do whenever I hear something interesting.
Let me say from the start, that I am against these "planned neighborhood" type approaches. I don't see that they work. I see that they often fail. I see they routinely start off really big, and quickly turn to crap.
MAYBE... Dublin will have better results... who knows. But if it was my city, I would oppose the plan.

So here is what I found.

Apparently the City of Dublin owns the land right now. Moreover, they have owned this land since before 2007. So 10 years at least, if not longer.

I for all my digging, could not find a single reference to HOW the City of Dublin came to own the land.

However, what I do know, is that giving the land away, was part of the plan from the beginning.
http://dublinohiousa.gov/dev/dev/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/OBAs-presentation.pdf

They have given the land away to various companies already, and universities and colleges, and hospitals. OSU already had land there. Dublin Methodist Hospital has land. Columbus State Community College has land there.

You complain about Amazon getting free land.... well one would think that OSU that collects $6 Billion a year, including $500 Million in direct money from the tax payers of Ohio.... could afford to buy their own freakin land.

But about a dozen companies already got free land in this "West Innovation District" that Dublin is running.

Again, it's not just Amazon. It isn't some special deal that only Amazon is getting. Many companies are involved in this, because it was the whole point of the Dublin plan. Again... why the citizens of Dublin City, are paying tax money, and like this... I don't know. But this is their deal. The citizen of Dublin have supported this plan.

That's their right.

Let me back up and look at this from the tax revenue perspective.

Again, as I said before, I'm against these centrally planned development projects, because I see that they rarely work out in the long run.

However, from a purely tax revenue perspective, it now seems more logical than before.

The City of Dublin has owned this land for over 10 years. How much tax revenue has the land generated for those years? ZERO. None. The land hasn't generated anything.... as in... anything at all.

IN FACT.... maintaining this unproductive land, has COST THE CITY. They have to keep the grass cut, and maintain the land. That costs money. So in fact, holding onto this land over ten years, has not only not produced any tax revenue, but has cost tax money.

Now... which makes more sense.... holding onto unproductive land that costs money, and produces zero tax revenue for another 10 years? Or giving it away free to a major corporation that will spend $1.1 Billion dollars in investment, and create thousands of high paying jobs, all of which will produce millions on millions of dollars in tax revenue, even if they have a tax abatement on the property tax?

Which is better.... ZERO taxes, or MORE THAN ZERO taxes?

Now the Free-market capitalist side of me, says what would be even better, is to not have socialism at all, and the city never owning the land to begin with, and always be collecting property tax. But the City already owns the land, and has for over a decade. So that option is passed.

Now given the current situation.... unproductive land costing money, producing nothing, generating zero taxes at all..... yeah giving it away to any company that will actually make use of the land, and do SOMETHING.... ANYTHING with it... is better than the city owning for another 10 years, without any benefit.

 

[OnePercenter]

I just showed you I would.

I'm on the same side as you on most issues, but you're wrong on this one. These tax abatement schemes are corporate welfare. Even if one state or city benefits from an individual case, when they all do it they are just playing beggar thy neighbor and they all get screwed. The taxpayers end up subsidizing certain favored corporations and screwing all the other businesses in the city.

Not really because the other businesses will not be affected. They will have the same business, pay the same taxes they've always paid, nothing will change for them.

What happens is the city gets a new tax revenue stream. That's good for everybody involved.

Amazon receives a 75% subsidy on property taxes and other businesses get NOTHING?

How is that good?

Every business that offers to spend millions developing new land, can get the tax abatement. Everyone that offers to invest that kind of money, can get the tax abatement.

They didn't pick Amazon because they like Amazon, and Bob knows Dan, who knows Tim, who knows Fred at Amazon.

They picked Amazon because the company offered to spend multi-millions investing and developing the land.

ANY company that offers that, can get a tax break.

Amazon is getting FREE land AND a tax abatement.

Why does a company with $136B in revenue (2016) need a tax abatement?

It doesn't "need" anything.

How many mechanics shops offer special deals and discounts to get you to buy from their shop? How many $10 off your next oil change? Or buy 3 tiers, get the 4th one free?

Tons of them do. Do you "need" to get $10 off your next oil change? No you don't. Are you opposed to all those deals too, since you don't "need" it?

Now, I still found it interesting when you mentioned 'free' land. Most of the deals I've looked at, do not involve free land. So I was interested to see what was going on here.

So I started to do some digging, which is what I normally do whenever I hear something interesting.
Let me say from the start, that I am against these "planned neighborhood" type approaches. I don't see that they work. I see that they often fail. I see they routinely start off really big, and quickly turn to crap.
MAYBE... Dublin will have better results... who knows. But if it was my city, I would oppose the plan.

So here is what I found.

Apparently the City of Dublin owns the land right now. Moreover, they have owned this land since before 2007. So 10 years at least, if not longer.

I for all my digging, could not find a single reference to HOW the City of Dublin came to own the land.

However, what I do know, is that giving the land away, was part of the plan from the beginning.
http://dublinohiousa.gov/dev/dev/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/OBAs-presentation.pdf

They have given the land away to various companies already, and universities and colleges, and hospitals. OSU already had land there. Dublin Methodist Hospital has land. Columbus State Community College has land there.

You complain about Amazon getting free land.... well one would think that OSU that collects $6 Billion a year, including $500 Million in direct money from the tax payers of Ohio.... could afford to buy their own freakin land.

But about a dozen companies already got free land in this "West Innovation District" that Dublin is running.

Again, it's not just Amazon. It isn't some special deal that only Amazon is getting. Many companies are involved in this, because it was the whole point of the Dublin plan. Again... why the citizens of Dublin City, are paying tax money, and like this... I don't know. But this is their deal. The citizen of Dublin have supported this plan.

That's their right.

Let me back up and look at this from the tax revenue perspective.

Again, as I said before, I'm against these centrally planned development projects, because I see that they rarely work out in the long run.

However, from a purely tax revenue perspective, it now seems more logical than before.

The City of Dublin has owned this land for over 10 years. How much tax revenue has the land generated for those years? ZERO. None. The land hasn't generated anything.... as in... anything at all.

IN FACT.... maintaining this unproductive land, has COST THE CITY. They have to keep the grass cut, and maintain the land. That costs money. So in fact, holding onto this land over ten years, has not only not produced any tax revenue, but has cost tax money.

Now... which makes more sense.... holding onto unproductive land that costs money, and produces zero tax revenue for another 10 years? Or giving it away free to a major corporation that will spend $1.1 Billion dollars in investment, and create thousands of high paying jobs, all of which will produce millions on millions of dollars in tax revenue, even if they have a tax abatement on the property tax?

Which is better.... ZERO taxes, or MORE THAN ZERO taxes?

Now the Free-market capitalist side of me, says what would be even better, is to not have socialism at all, and the city never owning the land to begin with, and always be collecting property tax. But the City already owns the land, and has for over a decade. So that option is passed.

Now given the current situation.... unproductive land costing money, producing nothing, generating zero taxes at all..... yeah giving it away to any company that will actually make use of the land, and do SOMETHING.... ANYTHING with it... is better than the city owning for another 10 years, without any benefit.

Are you writing that the City of Dublin, OH owns land in Randall Park, OH?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, cars do not do all that much damage to the roads. Up here, it's mostly the snow and ice. The new Amazon will be built on Route 8 which already has trucks on it. Plus when the North Randall Mall was built, they built the roads wide enough to handle heavy traffic. After all, during it's day, North Randall Mall was the largest mall in the country, and people from all over the country to shop there.

Isn't it ironic that what closed the mall is taking it's place?

Is the village ready for double or triple the truck traffic which will increase maintenance?

How long before the citizens of the village realize they need that 75% discount on property taxes?

Amazon is a Delaware corporation, so the village doesn't share in tax revenue.

What closed the mall was crime and more malls that were built since the time it opened. It had very little to do with online shopping.

Where do you get this double or triple truck traffic from anyway? Randall Mall sat between two state routes: Route 8 and route 43. Both were widened before Randall Park Mall opened back in the 70s to accommodate more traffic. Because they are state routes, the state kicks in money for maintenance and repair.

You say crime closed the mall and more malls were built in the area? Whats wrong with that statement?

Bad management closed the mall.

Amazon is building an 855,000sq/ft distribution center. Easily 100+ trucks every day on roads built in the late 90's.

The State 'shares' costs.

btw, how much did Amazon pay for the property?

Do you know what 100 additional trucks on roads already heavily used by trucks means? Absolutely nothing. The Industrial complex up the road from the mall probably gets more than that; I should know, I deliver to that area all the time.

Yes, bad management did not help, but it was more the environment that they created. They used to allow people to hang outside by the doors......especially by the cinemas. If a white person walked to those doors, they were made fun of and at times spit upon. Dead bodies were found in the parking lots. Cars were either broken into or stolen all the time. A friend of my sister told me her brother was attacked by blacks in the restroom. He got the best of them because he was a high school wrestling champ, but still ended up wounded.

When better and safer malls were built, people flocked to those instead. Randall Park Mall became the ghetto of malls, and nothing could be done about it.

Another 100+ trucks per day means absolutely nothing on a road that was engineered in the 70's? Please.....

Bad management was the cause of everything you wrote.

btw, how much did Amazon pay for the property?

Correct, another 100 trucks doesn't mean anything on roads that see thousands of trucks per day. Route 43 (miles road) which the mall sits on is all industry anyway. In fact, it's industry for several miles. That's besides the fact most trucks will be exiting on Route 8 from I-480 which is less than a half-mile from the site, so trucks going there won't be on the road very long anyway. Both Miles and Route 8 are five lane roads: two lanes going each way plus a center lane for making turns.

 

[Brain357]

No government intervention in the economy. Gov picking winners and losers never works. Just like too much social welfare leads people to bad decisions, corp welfare does the same to companies.

 

[Aries]

They are able spare a living wage. They don't want to and they don't care. The owners of Wal-Mart are making a killing and a high number of their employees don't make enough to make ends meet. They can pay people more, they don't. And it's not right.

If you understood anything about how business works, you would understand why they don't.

One of the key elements in business is investors. You attract investors by providing them with growth. The greater the growth, the more investors you get.

So you overpay all your workers, and then the growth of your company goes down. Your investors start dumping your stock and you have less money to invest in your business. Your former investors will buy the stock of your competitors, and then you are screwed.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I have ran a business before and that explanation was trash. Paying a living wage isn't "overpaying" .... "underpaying" people brings us to people working 40 hours a week and still needing government assistance. Totally unacceptable to me.

I believe all civilized societies need some sort of safety net for our disabled, sick, mentally ill etc. But when people are working 40 hours a week, in the richest country in the world, and can't make rent THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG!

Paying a living wage isn't "overpaying" ....

What's a "living wage"?
How do you know?
Show your math.

I believe all civilized societies need some sort of safety net for our disabled, sick, mentally ill etc.

Federal Government transfer payments in the US are currently over $2 trillion a year.

How do I know? It's my job to know... here's the math.

Minimum wage worker brings in around 1200 per month. Standard rental price for 2 bedroom is 800 a month (in my area) that leaves them 400 dollars. Plus utilities, 150 (at least) now they have 200. They pay 150 for a car payment/insurance (cheap) now theyre left with 50 for 4 weeks.. what about food what about phone bills what about the KIDS what about paying for an education what about health insurance???


If republicans weren't funneling all our money to the top 1% for the last 5 decades we would not need nearly the amount of social welfare that we use today. If the republicans didn't fight tooth and nail every time a bill came up to raise minimum wage we wouldn't need nearly the amount of social welfare we use today.
Gop is so "against" handouts. But they just can't help wanting the rich richer and the poor poorer.

That's when he decides to move back in with mom. Problem solved.

I don't believe any American working 40 hours a week should be without a home. Why do you?

 

[Aries]

Let's try raising minimum wage...

I think if we raised minimum wage you would be shocked at the decrease of welfare..

Ya think? Where would they work?

In our booming economy

When you raise the minimum to more than the work is worth, businesses cut hours and the number of employees, or leave the city/state altogether.

Why is that not happening in Seattle?

I understand that it is.

Seattle $15 Minimum Wage Forcing Some Restaurants Out Of Business

If you can't afford to pay your workers a living wage you shouldn't be in business. Period.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Ya think? Where would they work?

In our booming economy

When you raise the minimum to more than the work is worth, businesses cut hours and the number of employees, or leave the city/state altogether.

Why is that not happening in Seattle?

I understand that it is.

Seattle $15 Minimum Wage Forcing Some Restaurants Out Of Business

If you can't afford to pay your workers a living wage you shouldn't be in business. Period.

Why are employees due a "living wage" regardless of the work they do? When did it become the responsibility of the business owner to defy Darwin?

Simply being alive does not entitle you to be taken care of by others by statute.

 

[Aries]

In our booming economy

When you raise the minimum to more than the work is worth, businesses cut hours and the number of employees, or leave the city/state altogether.

Why is that not happening in Seattle?

I understand that it is.

Seattle $15 Minimum Wage Forcing Some Restaurants Out Of Business

If you can't afford to pay your workers a living wage you shouldn't be in business. Period.

Why are employees due a "living wage" regardless of the work they do? When did it become the responsibility of the business owner to defy Darwin?

Simply being alive does not entitle you to be taken care of by others by statute.

Working 40 hours a week directly means no one else is taking care of them. Unless the arent making a living wage, then they are on public assistance and we are all taking care of them. When did it become the tax payers jobs to subsidize wages because owners want more to line their pockets?