Corporate welfare in action ....

[bripat9643]

You can dispute the exact amount all you like, but the fact is that a huge new business would be imposing a significant additional cost on city and state government. Just the additional traffic would be a significant additional cost.

And you don't think the city or state had that figured out when they made the offer? What are those additional costs? A new stoplight or two, perhaps an additional lane to a main road?

Thousands of additional cars that inflict wear and tear on the roads, plus the additional personnel needed to police them.

No, cars do not do all that much damage to the roads. Up here, it's mostly the snow and ice. The new Amazon will be built on Route 8 which already has trucks on it. Plus when the North Randall Mall was built, they built the roads wide enough to handle heavy traffic. After all, during it's day, North Randall Mall was the largest mall in the country, and people from all over the country to shop there.

Why are they borrowing $123 million if there are no additional services?

I would think if you are going to build a structure that's going to occupy nearly 70 acres of land, a loan might be needed. As long as it's paid back, no harm. It's just one more instance of what cities and states will do to lure businesses to their area.

They can borrow the money from a bank.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And you don't think the city or state had that figured out when they made the offer? What are those additional costs? A new stoplight or two, perhaps an additional lane to a main road?

Thousands of additional cars that inflict wear and tear on the roads, plus the additional personnel needed to police them.

No, cars do not do all that much damage to the roads. Up here, it's mostly the snow and ice. The new Amazon will be built on Route 8 which already has trucks on it. Plus when the North Randall Mall was built, they built the roads wide enough to handle heavy traffic. After all, during it's day, North Randall Mall was the largest mall in the country, and people from all over the country to shop there.

Why are they borrowing $123 million if there are no additional services?

I would think if you are going to build a structure that's going to occupy nearly 70 acres of land, a loan might be needed. As long as it's paid back, no harm. It's just one more instance of what cities and states will do to lure businesses to their area.

So there is $123 million plus interest worth of services. You said there was no additional costs Ray.

Not to the village there isn't. The Port Authority is county--not city. Their job is to advance any economic development they feel would benefit the county. It's a government agency that does things like make loans and help attract business to our area.

Port of Cleveland

 

[eagle1462010]

http://www.goodjobsfirst.org/sites/default/files/docs/pdf/UncleSamsFavoriteCorporations.pdf

The federal data was enhanced with Good Jobs First’s proprietary subsidiary-parent matching system, enabling users to see individual entries linked to more than 1,800 corporate parents, along with each parent’s total subsidies. Other key findings: • Six parent companies have received $1 billion or more in federal grants and allocated tax credits (those awarded to specific companies) since 2000; 21 have received $500 million or more; and 98 have received $100 million or more. A group of 582 large companies account for 67 percent of the $68 billion total.


This is the Feds doing it............and this is getting into Crony Capitalism...............States are offering too much but I still think the States have that right to do so..................Given that........some of these State Officials are GAMBLING............too DANG HIGH..............

 

[eagle1462010]

What is Alabama getting, as it spends millions on its cruise terminal?

alk through the Mobile Alabama Cruise Terminal these days, and you won't have to wonder about where $4.1 million in state and city money is going. It seems to be going into everything.

With the Carnival Fantasy due to set sail out of Alabama's Port City on Nov. 9, carrying more than 2,000 passengers and ending a five-year hiatus in regular cruise service out of Mobile, the terminal is a hive of activity. From the deck where cruisers will park, to the warehouse-like ground floor where their baggage will be collected and loaded, to the hall where they'll check in, to the wharf where the ship will await them, everything is a construction zone. Hammers pound, drills whirr, jackhammers clatter.

"This is going to show a bright new future for this place," said Sheila Gurganus, director of the terminal. "It's going to be better than it was before ... It's going to be more of a first-class facility."

If there's a cause for concern, it's this: The terminal is a twelve-year-old building that has been semi-dormant for five, since Carnival abruptly ended an apparently successful Mobile residency in 2011. The city borrowed $18.6 million in 2008 to buy it from an arm of Retirement Systems of Alabama, which built it. If you had a 12-year-old house, and you had to invest nearly a quarter of the purchase price to bring it up to snuff, surely you'd wonder if this indicated some fundamental flaw in the building itself, or at least that it raised the question of whether the investment was sensible.

Carnival to leave Mobile; officials shocked, saddled with cruise terminal debt

then they leave..........after money is spent on them.

Mobile: Welcome back, Carnival

then they come back 5 years later

 

[Brain357]

Thousands of additional cars that inflict wear and tear on the roads, plus the additional personnel needed to police them.

No, cars do not do all that much damage to the roads. Up here, it's mostly the snow and ice. The new Amazon will be built on Route 8 which already has trucks on it. Plus when the North Randall Mall was built, they built the roads wide enough to handle heavy traffic. After all, during it's day, North Randall Mall was the largest mall in the country, and people from all over the country to shop there.

Why are they borrowing $123 million if there are no additional services?

I would think if you are going to build a structure that's going to occupy nearly 70 acres of land, a loan might be needed. As long as it's paid back, no harm. It's just one more instance of what cities and states will do to lure businesses to their area.

So there is $123 million plus interest worth of services. You said there was no additional costs Ray.

Not to the village there isn't. The Port Authority is county--not city. Their job is to advance any economic development they feel would benefit the county. It's a government agency that does things like make loans and help attract business to our area.

Port of Cleveland

Sounds to me like they provide the financing to the town. The town is taking on the debt. Think the taxes go up to cover?

-Helps municipalities and developers finance public infrastructure improvement projects. Attractive for mixed-use developments.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Existing businesses pay no more new taxes if a new business with an abatement moves in. Nobody's taxes are going to increase. If anything, their taxes will not increase because of the new taxes created by the new business.

Yes, it's a bid to the bottom. Cities and states compete for companies to move to their area by lower taxes. We've lost companies to other cities because they gave them a better offer than we could. On the other hand, we also gained companies because we put out the better offer.

Amazon.com fulfillment center planned in North Randall, on former mall site, bringing 1,200 jobs

The project popped up on the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority board's agenda on Thursday morning. The board approved a request to provide up to $123 million worth of bond financing for the project, which could open during the second half of 2018.

So they are borrowing to fund this...

Thanks for the link.

David Smith, North Randall's longtime mayor, expressed cautious optimism during an interview after Thursday's port board meeting. He stressed that the fulfillment-center deal is far from done.......


Smith said the village doesn't have cash to put into the Amazon deal. But the village could grant partial property-tax abatement for the new building.

Sounds okay to me.

Seefried Industrial Properties, Inc., an Atlanta-based developer that has worked on other projects for Amazon, has a contract to buy the North Randall site, David Riefe, the company's senior vice president for the Midwest, said during Thursday's port board meeting. The properties belong to multiple owners today.

A site plan shows the location and orientation of a proposed Amazon.com fulfillment center in North Randall, on 69 acres of the former Randall Park Mall site.Port of Cleveland


The developer plans to raze the existing buildings - a shuttered Burlington Coat Factory store, a closed automotive-maintenance facility and a former department store occupied by Ohio Technical College's PowerSport Institute, which would relocate.

Seefried expects to construct a $177 million facility and lease it to Amazon, which has more than 70 such fulfillment centers across the country

Still good.

The project popped up on the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority board's agenda on Thursday morning. The board approved a request to provide up to $123 million worth of bond financing for the project, which could open during the second half of 2018.

Unclear what the Port Authority is using the money for. Maybe lending to Seefried Industrial Properties?
Sounds a bit like buying a stadium for a sports team.

Thumbs down.

Seems like a really big thumbs down to me.

Thumbs up for the town.
Thumbs down for the Port Authority.

I assume they are providing the bonds to the town. I don't see how taking on debt is a thumbs up.

Port Authority selling bonds to loan to the town? Doesn't make sense.

 

[Brain357]

Amazon.com fulfillment center planned in North Randall, on former mall site, bringing 1,200 jobs

The project popped up on the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority board's agenda on Thursday morning. The board approved a request to provide up to $123 million worth of bond financing for the project, which could open during the second half of 2018.

So they are borrowing to fund this...

Thanks for the link.

David Smith, North Randall's longtime mayor, expressed cautious optimism during an interview after Thursday's port board meeting. He stressed that the fulfillment-center deal is far from done.......


Smith said the village doesn't have cash to put into the Amazon deal. But the village could grant partial property-tax abatement for the new building.

Sounds okay to me.

Seefried Industrial Properties, Inc., an Atlanta-based developer that has worked on other projects for Amazon, has a contract to buy the North Randall site, David Riefe, the company's senior vice president for the Midwest, said during Thursday's port board meeting. The properties belong to multiple owners today.

A site plan shows the location and orientation of a proposed Amazon.com fulfillment center in North Randall, on 69 acres of the former Randall Park Mall site.Port of Cleveland


The developer plans to raze the existing buildings - a shuttered Burlington Coat Factory store, a closed automotive-maintenance facility and a former department store occupied by Ohio Technical College's PowerSport Institute, which would relocate.

Seefried expects to construct a $177 million facility and lease it to Amazon, which has more than 70 such fulfillment centers across the country

Still good.

The project popped up on the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority board's agenda on Thursday morning. The board approved a request to provide up to $123 million worth of bond financing for the project, which could open during the second half of 2018.

Unclear what the Port Authority is using the money for. Maybe lending to Seefried Industrial Properties?
Sounds a bit like buying a stadium for a sports team.

Thumbs down.

Seems like a really big thumbs down to me.

Thumbs up for the town.
Thumbs down for the Port Authority.

I assume they are providing the bonds to the town. I don't see how taking on debt is a thumbs up.

Port Authority selling bonds to loan to the town? Doesn't make sense.

From another port authority:
INFRASTRUCTURE FINANCING
Infrastructure Financing helps developers, governmental entities and other organizations finance improvements such as streets, curbs, and parking facilities. The Toledo-Lucas County Port Authority has provided over $100 million in Tax Increment Financing (TIF) and special assessment-backed bonds in tax-exempt, long-term, fixed-rate bond financing. Other benefits include:

• Possibility of 100% financing
• Lower cost of construction
• Fixed interest rate, tax exempt financing
• Terms of up to 32 years

Bond Programs

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Thanks for the link.

David Smith, North Randall's longtime mayor, expressed cautious optimism during an interview after Thursday's port board meeting. He stressed that the fulfillment-center deal is far from done.......


Smith said the village doesn't have cash to put into the Amazon deal. But the village could grant partial property-tax abatement for the new building.

Sounds okay to me.

Seefried Industrial Properties, Inc., an Atlanta-based developer that has worked on other projects for Amazon, has a contract to buy the North Randall site, David Riefe, the company's senior vice president for the Midwest, said during Thursday's port board meeting. The properties belong to multiple owners today.

A site plan shows the location and orientation of a proposed Amazon.com fulfillment center in North Randall, on 69 acres of the former Randall Park Mall site.Port of Cleveland


The developer plans to raze the existing buildings - a shuttered Burlington Coat Factory store, a closed automotive-maintenance facility and a former department store occupied by Ohio Technical College's PowerSport Institute, which would relocate.

Seefried expects to construct a $177 million facility and lease it to Amazon, which has more than 70 such fulfillment centers across the country

Still good.

The project popped up on the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority board's agenda on Thursday morning. The board approved a request to provide up to $123 million worth of bond financing for the project, which could open during the second half of 2018.

Unclear what the Port Authority is using the money for. Maybe lending to Seefried Industrial Properties?
Sounds a bit like buying a stadium for a sports team.

Thumbs down.

Seems like a really big thumbs down to me.

Thumbs up for the town.
Thumbs down for the Port Authority.

I assume they are providing the bonds to the town. I don't see how taking on debt is a thumbs up.

Port Authority selling bonds to loan to the town? Doesn't make sense.

From another port authority:
INFRASTRUCTURE FINANCING
Infrastructure Financing helps developers, governmental entities and other organizations finance improvements such as streets, curbs, and parking facilities. The Toledo-Lucas County Port Authority has provided over $100 million in Tax Increment Financing (TIF) and special assessment-backed bonds in tax-exempt, long-term, fixed-rate bond financing. Other benefits include:

• Possibility of 100% financing
• Lower cost of construction
• Fixed interest rate, tax exempt financing
• Terms of up to 32 years

Bond Programs

Thanks.

Smith said the village doesn't have cash to put into the Amazon deal. But the village could grant partial property-tax abatement for the new building.

If the city doesn't have cash, they'd be stupid to borrow for this.

 

[Andylusion]

http://www.goodjobsfirst.org/sites/default/files/docs/pdf/UncleSamsFavoriteCorporations.pdf

The federal data was enhanced with Good Jobs First’s proprietary subsidiary-parent matching system, enabling users to see individual entries linked to more than 1,800 corporate parents, along with each parent’s total subsidies. Other key findings: • Six parent companies have received $1 billion or more in federal grants and allocated tax credits (those awarded to specific companies) since 2000; 21 have received $500 million or more; and 98 have received $100 million or more. A group of 582 large companies account for 67 percent of the $68 billion total.


This is the Feds doing it............and this is getting into Crony Capitalism...............States are offering too much but I still think the States have that right to do so..................Given that........some of these State Officials are GAMBLING............too DANG HIGH..............

I am against grants made by the Federal Government. I oppose all grants. There should be zero grants anywhere, for anything.

 

[Andylusion]

Thanks for the link.

David Smith, North Randall's longtime mayor, expressed cautious optimism during an interview after Thursday's port board meeting. He stressed that the fulfillment-center deal is far from done.......


Smith said the village doesn't have cash to put into the Amazon deal. But the village could grant partial property-tax abatement for the new building.

Sounds okay to me.

Seefried Industrial Properties, Inc., an Atlanta-based developer that has worked on other projects for Amazon, has a contract to buy the North Randall site, David Riefe, the company's senior vice president for the Midwest, said during Thursday's port board meeting. The properties belong to multiple owners today.

A site plan shows the location and orientation of a proposed Amazon.com fulfillment center in North Randall, on 69 acres of the former Randall Park Mall site.Port of Cleveland


The developer plans to raze the existing buildings - a shuttered Burlington Coat Factory store, a closed automotive-maintenance facility and a former department store occupied by Ohio Technical College's PowerSport Institute, which would relocate.

Seefried expects to construct a $177 million facility and lease it to Amazon, which has more than 70 such fulfillment centers across the country

Still good.

The project popped up on the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority board's agenda on Thursday morning. The board approved a request to provide up to $123 million worth of bond financing for the project, which could open during the second half of 2018.

Unclear what the Port Authority is using the money for. Maybe lending to Seefried Industrial Properties?
Sounds a bit like buying a stadium for a sports team.

Thumbs down.

Seems like a really big thumbs down to me.

Thumbs up for the town.
Thumbs down for the Port Authority.

I assume they are providing the bonds to the town. I don't see how taking on debt is a thumbs up.

Port Authority selling bonds to loan to the town? Doesn't make sense.

From another port authority:
INFRASTRUCTURE FINANCING
Infrastructure Financing helps developers, governmental entities and other organizations finance improvements such as streets, curbs, and parking facilities. The Toledo-Lucas County Port Authority has provided over $100 million in Tax Increment Financing (TIF) and special assessment-backed bonds in tax-exempt, long-term, fixed-rate bond financing. Other benefits include:

• Possibility of 100% financing
• Lower cost of construction
• Fixed interest rate, tax exempt financing
• Terms of up to 32 years

Bond Programs

NO no nonononono

NO. Period.

When I talk about not having a big problem with tax abatement, that literally means "You don't pay tax on this for 5 years" or something to that effect.

This, is an abomination. The state, or county, is going to take out a bunch of bonds, tied to property tax revenue for.... meaning borrow money based on future tax revenue, for DECADES into the future?

NO. That is not what I support, and it should not be done. This is gambling. You don't know what the future tax revenue will be. You don't know if the companies that move into the developing area, will move out. You don't know if tax revenue will go up, or down. This is absolutely a terrible idea.

It's not surprising to me, that California that came up with this idiocy, is also the first to ban it.

Now again, if California wants to bankrupt themselves, fine. But we don't bail them out, or anyone else that engages in stupidity. I'm against this in Ohio. Bad plan.

 

[Wyatt earp]

No, they don't need to compete.

They do.
That's why, when Moonbeam adds more taxes and stupid regulations, corporations and people move to other states. If we forced uniform tax rates nationwide, like the EU wants to do across their federation, it would be harder to escape governmental stupidity.

Again, that's not what this thread is about. State's competing with lower taxes is fine. States are giving "most favored corporation status" to a company, along with a care-package of abatements and exemptions. Corporate Welfare, or whatever you call this game of dueling tax abatements, is government-corporate collusion, plain and simple.

Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals.

Believe me, I understand that idiots in government can make stupid deals. When it comes to government, stupidity is a feature, not a bug. I still don't think we should prohibit these abatements.

Should they be allowed to run the entire tax code that way? Everyone gets a different deal depending on what their lobbyists can haggle for? Why even have laws?

Why does the right wing Only complain about welfare for Individuals?

They don't provide jobs, taxes, revenue


.

Did you know, nobody takes the right wing seriously about economics?

We have the largest economy in the world, Mexico is our third largest trading partner, and tourism is one of the largest employers in twenty-nine States.

Derp!

Finish second grade, and some might take you a bit more seriously, doper.

Agree, I can never figure out if he is 82 years old or 13 years old

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, cars do not do all that much damage to the roads. Up here, it's mostly the snow and ice. The new Amazon will be built on Route 8 which already has trucks on it. Plus when the North Randall Mall was built, they built the roads wide enough to handle heavy traffic. After all, during it's day, North Randall Mall was the largest mall in the country, and people from all over the country to shop there.

Why are they borrowing $123 million if there are no additional services?

I would think if you are going to build a structure that's going to occupy nearly 70 acres of land, a loan might be needed. As long as it's paid back, no harm. It's just one more instance of what cities and states will do to lure businesses to their area.

So there is $123 million plus interest worth of services. You said there was no additional costs Ray.

Not to the village there isn't. The Port Authority is county--not city. Their job is to advance any economic development they feel would benefit the county. It's a government agency that does things like make loans and help attract business to our area.

Port of Cleveland

Sounds to me like they provide the financing to the town. The town is taking on the debt. Think the taxes go up to cover?

-Helps municipalities and developers finance public infrastructure improvement projects. Attractive for mixed-use developments.

I'm sure they are weighing all options, and as the article states, nothing is in fine print just yet.

I think the big question would be what would all this mean in dollars and cents for the village when everything is said and done? Without those figures, it's very difficult for us to opine on how good or bad of a deal this would be. Those figures are with the village and whoever runs their numbers. I doubt if they have a city council given their size, or how they interact with the suburb that provides their city services which is Warrnsville Heights. But I'm sure Warrnsville has a city council and maybe their people are going to figure this out for them.

 

[danielpalos]

Fantasy, unless you have an example.

It's not fantasy, idiot. It happened.

Still waiting for an example, you know so I can destroy you.

Government spends more on corporate welfare than social welfare.

Social welfare adds $1.70 to the economy for every $1.00 spent. Corporate welfare adds zero, and in some cases causes a negative.

Social welfare adds $1.70 to the economy for every $1.00 spent.

How many trillions in social welfare spending do we need to add until it balances the budget?

It won't happen if you cut taxes.

 

[danielpalos]

Increasing minimum wage only sets off a domino effect. You may make more money up front, but within a few years, everything else costs more money and you find yourself right back where you started from.

My father and I were discussing this the other day. He's a retired construction worker. We both watch those shows on HGTV where they buy and sell houses all the time. What you get in some of these states for a million dollars you could find here for less than 300K. A million dollar home here is nearly a mansion.

Increased wages creates a huge cost of living increase. Several years ago I rented an apartment to a kid from New York because he was going to school here. I was charging him $450.00 at the time. He told me that the apartment I rented him would cost over $1,000 in New York state. He said my larger apartments (which I was generally charging $500.00 a month for) would go easily for $1,200 a month, and probably over 2 grand a month if they were close to NYC.

You trust the government to dish out corporate welfare. You should trust them to manipulate wages. See your beliefs make no sense.

You can keep using that term Corporate Welfare all you want, but when you do, I think tax breaks--not welfare at all. And I'm all for tax breaks. The lower the taxes, the better.

Maybe this will start to help you understand Ray. A single woman with 2 kids can get a lot better deal on welfare and taxes if she has a 3rd child. But is that really the best life decision? That's what is happening with corporate welfare. Corps take the gov deals, but aren't necessarily doing what is best for business. This corporate welfare distorts the economy.

So you know more than corporate CEO's now?

Well I certainly know that capitalism and the free market are better than corporate welfare. CEOs certainly fail rather regularly. Sears? Circuit City? Blockbuster? Borders? Again they may be doing what they think is right, but the government is distorting the economy.

Our "wars on crime, drugs, poverty, and terror", distort the economy. The right only wants to end the war on poverty, because the poor may benefit.

 

[Brain357]

Why are they borrowing $123 million if there are no additional services?

I would think if you are going to build a structure that's going to occupy nearly 70 acres of land, a loan might be needed. As long as it's paid back, no harm. It's just one more instance of what cities and states will do to lure businesses to their area.

So there is $123 million plus interest worth of services. You said there was no additional costs Ray.

Not to the village there isn't. The Port Authority is county--not city. Their job is to advance any economic development they feel would benefit the county. It's a government agency that does things like make loans and help attract business to our area.

Port of Cleveland

Sounds to me like they provide the financing to the town. The town is taking on the debt. Think the taxes go up to cover?

-Helps municipalities and developers finance public infrastructure improvement projects. Attractive for mixed-use developments.

I'm sure they are weighing all options, and as the article states, nothing is in fine print just yet.

I think the big question would be what would all this mean in dollars and cents for the village when everything is said and done? Without those figures, it's very difficult for us to opine on how good or bad of a deal this would be. Those figures are with the village and whoever runs their numbers. I doubt if they have a city council given their size, or how they interact with the suburb that provides their city services which is Warrnsville Heights. But I'm sure Warrnsville has a city council and maybe their people are going to figure this out for them.

They didn't get approval to borrow 123 million for nothing. And they are giving away any revenue from taxes for quite some time no doubt. Since they are a town of only 1000 people realistically it's less than 50 jobs for the town. I don't see any other details that could emerge to make this deal look good. They are leasing so when it comes time for them to pay taxes they will get a new deal not to leave. See these deals are bad for the tax payer!

You mentioned all workers would pay some tax to the town, but with 2000 workers I bet it is a REALLY long time for that amount to ever equal 123 million.

I strongly suspect the deal only gets worse as more details emerge.

 

[Brain357]

Seems like a really big thumbs down to me.

Thumbs up for the town.
Thumbs down for the Port Authority.

I assume they are providing the bonds to the town. I don't see how taking on debt is a thumbs up.

Port Authority selling bonds to loan to the town? Doesn't make sense.

From another port authority:
INFRASTRUCTURE FINANCING
Infrastructure Financing helps developers, governmental entities and other organizations finance improvements such as streets, curbs, and parking facilities. The Toledo-Lucas County Port Authority has provided over $100 million in Tax Increment Financing (TIF) and special assessment-backed bonds in tax-exempt, long-term, fixed-rate bond financing. Other benefits include:

• Possibility of 100% financing
• Lower cost of construction
• Fixed interest rate, tax exempt financing
• Terms of up to 32 years

Bond Programs

NO no nonononono

NO. Period.

When I talk about not having a big problem with tax abatement, that literally means "You don't pay tax on this for 5 years" or something to that effect.

This, is an abomination. The state, or county, is going to take out a bunch of bonds, tied to property tax revenue for.... meaning borrow money based on future tax revenue, for DECADES into the future?

NO. That is not what I support, and it should not be done. This is gambling. You don't know what the future tax revenue will be. You don't know if the companies that move into the developing area, will move out. You don't know if tax revenue will go up, or down. This is absolutely a terrible idea.

It's not surprising to me, that California that came up with this idiocy, is also the first to ban it.

Now again, if California wants to bankrupt themselves, fine. But we don't bail them out, or anyone else that engages in stupidity. I'm against this in Ohio. Bad plan.

The thing is if the company pays no taxes, they still are getting services. That has to be paid for in some way. Either taxes are raised on others or they borrow and go into debt.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I would think if you are going to build a structure that's going to occupy nearly 70 acres of land, a loan might be needed. As long as it's paid back, no harm. It's just one more instance of what cities and states will do to lure businesses to their area.

So there is $123 million plus interest worth of services. You said there was no additional costs Ray.

Not to the village there isn't. The Port Authority is county--not city. Their job is to advance any economic development they feel would benefit the county. It's a government agency that does things like make loans and help attract business to our area.

Port of Cleveland

Sounds to me like they provide the financing to the town. The town is taking on the debt. Think the taxes go up to cover?

-Helps municipalities and developers finance public infrastructure improvement projects. Attractive for mixed-use developments.

I'm sure they are weighing all options, and as the article states, nothing is in fine print just yet.

I think the big question would be what would all this mean in dollars and cents for the village when everything is said and done? Without those figures, it's very difficult for us to opine on how good or bad of a deal this would be. Those figures are with the village and whoever runs their numbers. I doubt if they have a city council given their size, or how they interact with the suburb that provides their city services which is Warrnsville Heights. But I'm sure Warrnsville has a city council and maybe their people are going to figure this out for them.

They didn't get approval to borrow 123 million for nothing. And they are giving away any revenue from taxes for quite some time no doubt. Since they are a town of only 1000 people realistically it's less than 50 jobs for the town. I don't see any other details that could emerge to make this deal look good. They are leasing so when it comes time for them to pay taxes they will get a new deal not to leave. See these deals are bad for the tax payer!

You mentioned all workers would pay some tax to the town, but with 2000 workers I bet it is a REALLY long time for that amount to ever equal 123 million.

I strongly suspect the deal only gets worse as more details emerge.

They are not getting free money they are borrowing it, so it's likely it will be paid back. I don't know what kind of actual cash we are talking about here, but I believe that since Amazon will be paying 25% of property taxes on 70 acres of commercial land, that's going to be a hell of a lot of money.

 

[bripat9643]

So there is $123 million plus interest worth of services. You said there was no additional costs Ray.

Not to the village there isn't. The Port Authority is county--not city. Their job is to advance any economic development they feel would benefit the county. It's a government agency that does things like make loans and help attract business to our area.

Port of Cleveland

Sounds to me like they provide the financing to the town. The town is taking on the debt. Think the taxes go up to cover?

-Helps municipalities and developers finance public infrastructure improvement projects. Attractive for mixed-use developments.

I'm sure they are weighing all options, and as the article states, nothing is in fine print just yet.

I think the big question would be what would all this mean in dollars and cents for the village when everything is said and done? Without those figures, it's very difficult for us to opine on how good or bad of a deal this would be. Those figures are with the village and whoever runs their numbers. I doubt if they have a city council given their size, or how they interact with the suburb that provides their city services which is Warrnsville Heights. But I'm sure Warrnsville has a city council and maybe their people are going to figure this out for them.

They didn't get approval to borrow 123 million for nothing. And they are giving away any revenue from taxes for quite some time no doubt. Since they are a town of only 1000 people realistically it's less than 50 jobs for the town. I don't see any other details that could emerge to make this deal look good. They are leasing so when it comes time for them to pay taxes they will get a new deal not to leave. See these deals are bad for the tax payer!

You mentioned all workers would pay some tax to the town, but with 2000 workers I bet it is a REALLY long time for that amount to ever equal 123 million.

I strongly suspect the deal only gets worse as more details emerge.

They are not getting free money they are borrowing it, so it's likely it will be paid back. I don't know what kind of actual cash we are talking about here, but I believe that since Amazon will be paying 25% of property taxes on 70 acres of commercial land, that's going to be a hell of a lot of money.

They are borrowing at below market rates. Otherwise, why do it?

 

[Brain357]

So there is $123 million plus interest worth of services. You said there was no additional costs Ray.

Not to the village there isn't. The Port Authority is county--not city. Their job is to advance any economic development they feel would benefit the county. It's a government agency that does things like make loans and help attract business to our area.

Port of Cleveland

Sounds to me like they provide the financing to the town. The town is taking on the debt. Think the taxes go up to cover?

-Helps municipalities and developers finance public infrastructure improvement projects. Attractive for mixed-use developments.

I'm sure they are weighing all options, and as the article states, nothing is in fine print just yet.

I think the big question would be what would all this mean in dollars and cents for the village when everything is said and done? Without those figures, it's very difficult for us to opine on how good or bad of a deal this would be. Those figures are with the village and whoever runs their numbers. I doubt if they have a city council given their size, or how they interact with the suburb that provides their city services which is Warrnsville Heights. But I'm sure Warrnsville has a city council and maybe their people are going to figure this out for them.

They didn't get approval to borrow 123 million for nothing. And they are giving away any revenue from taxes for quite some time no doubt. Since they are a town of only 1000 people realistically it's less than 50 jobs for the town. I don't see any other details that could emerge to make this deal look good. They are leasing so when it comes time for them to pay taxes they will get a new deal not to leave. See these deals are bad for the tax payer!

You mentioned all workers would pay some tax to the town, but with 2000 workers I bet it is a REALLY long time for that amount to ever equal 123 million.

I strongly suspect the deal only gets worse as more details emerge.

They are not getting free money they are borrowing it, so it's likely it will be paid back. I don't know what kind of actual cash we are talking about here, but I believe that since Amazon will be paying 25% of property taxes on 70 acres of commercial land, that's going to be a hell of a lot of money.

Fact after fact goes against you and you just won't give up.

Yes they are borrowing and borrowing is not free. So how much do they actually pay for the 123 million in borrowing? Quite a lot more than 123 million.

I don't think 25% of property taxes on 70 acres is very much. Certainly not compared to borrowing 123 million. It appears they are paying 25% of only 3.57%.

http://treasurer.cuyahogacounty.us/pdf_treasurer/en-US/TaxRates.pdf

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Not to the village there isn't. The Port Authority is county--not city. Their job is to advance any economic development they feel would benefit the county. It's a government agency that does things like make loans and help attract business to our area.

Port of Cleveland

Sounds to me like they provide the financing to the town. The town is taking on the debt. Think the taxes go up to cover?

-Helps municipalities and developers finance public infrastructure improvement projects. Attractive for mixed-use developments.

I'm sure they are weighing all options, and as the article states, nothing is in fine print just yet.

I think the big question would be what would all this mean in dollars and cents for the village when everything is said and done? Without those figures, it's very difficult for us to opine on how good or bad of a deal this would be. Those figures are with the village and whoever runs their numbers. I doubt if they have a city council given their size, or how they interact with the suburb that provides their city services which is Warrnsville Heights. But I'm sure Warrnsville has a city council and maybe their people are going to figure this out for them.

They didn't get approval to borrow 123 million for nothing. And they are giving away any revenue from taxes for quite some time no doubt. Since they are a town of only 1000 people realistically it's less than 50 jobs for the town. I don't see any other details that could emerge to make this deal look good. They are leasing so when it comes time for them to pay taxes they will get a new deal not to leave. See these deals are bad for the tax payer!

You mentioned all workers would pay some tax to the town, but with 2000 workers I bet it is a REALLY long time for that amount to ever equal 123 million.

I strongly suspect the deal only gets worse as more details emerge.

They are not getting free money they are borrowing it, so it's likely it will be paid back. I don't know what kind of actual cash we are talking about here, but I believe that since Amazon will be paying 25% of property taxes on 70 acres of commercial land, that's going to be a hell of a lot of money.

They are borrowing at below market rates. Otherwise, why do it?

Oh, I'm sure they are. But I don't believe the Port Authority is out to make profits, they are out to promote economic activity.