Corporate welfare in action ....

[Markle]

And the answer is;


-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2017 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with unlimited employees; employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2017 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 10 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

States and local governments need to compete to attract business.
Without competition, idiot politicians could create a "sweetened beverage tax", like the assholes in Cook County, and never suffer the consequences of their stupidity and greed.

No, they don't need to compete. If companies want to grow they need to expand and build. Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals. Do you pretend to be conservative?

So my city collects three million dollars in taxes every year to support our city. A new business moves in and the city (with abatements) now collects 3.4 million in taxes every year. How did the taxpayer lose?

The new business is using .6 million in services.

Utter bull. Nobody would give tax abatements if that were true.

You can dispute the exact amount all you like, but the fact is that a huge new business would be imposing a significant additional cost on city and state government. Just the additional traffic would be a significant additional cost.

And you don't think the city or state had that figured out when they made the offer? What are those additional costs? A new stoplight or two, perhaps an additional lane to a main road?

 

[Markle]

Good paying jobs? You're kidding, right?

It's already been posted on this board.

A supervisor at Amazon makes $15.65/hr which is crap pay. You have to stand for 8 hours in heat up to 90 degrees because Amazon doesn't believe in air conditioning. To qualify you need a bachelor's degree. Would anyone in their right mind pay $50K for an education for that job?

The American worker is woefully underpaid.

Amazon doesn't need subsidies. Period.

Who gave you the authority to decide what a company pays or what it NEEDS?

Operations Team Leader Salary
Operations Team Leaders in the United States take home an average $60K per year. Total cash earnings of Operations Team Leaders range from $29K on the low end to $93K on the high end; the final amount can include bonuses and profit sharing proceeds that occasionally exceed $15K and $10K, respectively. Earnings for this group are mostly affected by the particular firm, followed by the particular city and tenure. Most Operations Team Leaders report high levels of job satisfaction. Medical and dental benefits are awarded to a large number, and a fair number earn vision coverage. The information for this snapshot was generated by responses to the PayScale salary survey.

Amazon Salary | PayScale

The American worker is paid exactly what they are worth.

 

[Wyatt earp]

You like that government is making these decisions, rather than the market?

States and local governments need to compete to attract business.
Without competition, idiot politicians could create a "sweetened beverage tax", like the assholes in Cook County, and never suffer the consequences of their stupidity and greed.

No, they don't need to compete. If companies want to grow they need to expand and build. Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals. Do you pretend to be conservative?

No, they don't need to compete.

They do.
That's why, when Moonbeam adds more taxes and stupid regulations, corporations and people move to other states. If we forced uniform tax rates nationwide, like the EU wants to do across their federation, it would be harder to escape governmental stupidity.

Again, that's not what this thread is about. State's competing with lower taxes is fine. States are giving "most favored corporation status" to a company, along with a care-package of abatements and exemptions. Corporate Welfare, or whatever you call this game of dueling tax abatements, is government-corporate collusion, plain and simple.

Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals.

Believe me, I understand that idiots in government can make stupid deals. When it comes to government, stupidity is a feature, not a bug. I still don't think we should prohibit these abatements.

Should they be allowed to run the entire tax code that way? Everyone gets a different deal depending on what their lobbyists can haggle for? Why even have laws?

Why does the right wing Only complain about welfare for Individuals?

They don't provide jobs, taxes, revenue


.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So my city collects three million dollars in taxes every year to support our city. A new business moves in and the city (with abatements) now collects 3.4 million in taxes every year. How did the taxpayer lose?

The new business is using .6 million in services.

Utter bull. Nobody would give tax abatements if that were true.

I've given plenty of examples where the city/state and tax payers get hosed. Are you not paying attention? Politicians hand these things out. They say look at all these jobs we created. The corp gets tons of money, and the tax payer gets hosed.

Then why didn't the people vote those politicians out of office? I'm sure most of the abatements happen in Democrat cities anyway.

Gee why do many bad politicians get reelected? Are you really claiming all bad politicians get voted out?

The will if the local news shows people that an abatement was a net loss. Politicians have no reason to give a company a break unless it benefited the city or town in some way--usually financial.

 

[Brain357]

No, they don't need to compete. If companies want to grow they need to expand and build. Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals. Do you pretend to be conservative?

So my city collects three million dollars in taxes every year to support our city. A new business moves in and the city (with abatements) now collects 3.4 million in taxes every year. How did the taxpayer lose?

The new business is using .6 million in services.

Utter bull. Nobody would give tax abatements if that were true.

You can dispute the exact amount all you like, but the fact is that a huge new business would be imposing a significant additional cost on city and state government. Just the additional traffic would be a significant additional cost.

And you don't think the city or state had that figured out when they made the offer? What are those additional costs? A new stoplight or two, perhaps an additional lane to a main road?

Do you not see how government works? States go into debt for these stupid deals sometimes. You can't be serious. Have you noticed how deeply in debt our country is? Have you seen how deeply in debt many states are? Most politicians are not fiscally responsible. What more proof do you need?

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

 

[Brain357]

The new business is using .6 million in services.

Utter bull. Nobody would give tax abatements if that were true.

I've given plenty of examples where the city/state and tax payers get hosed. Are you not paying attention? Politicians hand these things out. They say look at all these jobs we created. The corp gets tons of money, and the tax payer gets hosed.

Then why didn't the people vote those politicians out of office? I'm sure most of the abatements happen in Democrat cities anyway.

Gee why do many bad politicians get reelected? Are you really claiming all bad politicians get voted out?

The will if the local news shows people that an abatement was a net loss. Politicians have no reason to give a company a break unless it benefited the city or town in some way--usually financial.

These deals are never so obvious to pick out. Look at Foxconn. It is 3 billion and they guess it won't break even for 25 years. When does the media start calling them out on that one? After 25 years? Gosh you have a lot of faith in government. Again look at the US debt. Politicians are not fiscally responsible.

 

[Brain357]

The new business is using .6 million in services.

Utter bull. Nobody would give tax abatements if that were true.

I've given plenty of examples where the city/state and tax payers get hosed. Are you not paying attention? Politicians hand these things out. They say look at all these jobs we created. The corp gets tons of money, and the tax payer gets hosed.

Then why didn't the people vote those politicians out of office? I'm sure most of the abatements happen in Democrat cities anyway.

Gee why do many bad politicians get reelected? Are you really claiming all bad politicians get voted out?

The will if the local news shows people that an abatement was a net loss. Politicians have no reason to give a company a break unless it benefited the city or town in some way--usually financial.

Conservative and liberal groups have criticized the explosion in tax breaks under Christie, calling it textbook “corporate welfare” and noting that the state has garnered a record 10 credit-rating downgrades because of a lack of revenue to cover the cost of hospitals, pensions, schools, property tax rebates and other services. State revenue is not keeping pace with New Jersey’s ballooning, legally mandated costs, analysts at Fitch Ratings, Moody’s Investors Service and S&P Global Ratings say.

Lawmakers ignoring $7.4B boom in 'corporate welfare,' experts say

 

[Brain357]

Utter bull. Nobody would give tax abatements if that were true.

I've given plenty of examples where the city/state and tax payers get hosed. Are you not paying attention? Politicians hand these things out. They say look at all these jobs we created. The corp gets tons of money, and the tax payer gets hosed.

Then why didn't the people vote those politicians out of office? I'm sure most of the abatements happen in Democrat cities anyway.

Gee why do many bad politicians get reelected? Are you really claiming all bad politicians get voted out?

The will if the local news shows people that an abatement was a net loss. Politicians have no reason to give a company a break unless it benefited the city or town in some way--usually financial.

Conservative and liberal groups have criticized the explosion in tax breaks under Christie, calling it textbook “corporate welfare” and noting that the state has garnered a record 10 credit-rating downgrades because of a lack of revenue to cover the cost of hospitals, pensions, schools, property tax rebates and other services. State revenue is not keeping pace with New Jersey’s ballooning, legally mandated costs, analysts at Fitch Ratings, Moody’s Investors Service and S&P Global Ratings say.

Lawmakers ignoring $7.4B boom in 'corporate welfare,' experts say

And how is NJ doing with all this corporate welfare?

N.J. economic recovery still lagging, despite recent jobs numbers

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I've given plenty of examples where the city/state and tax payers get hosed. Are you not paying attention? Politicians hand these things out. They say look at all these jobs we created. The corp gets tons of money, and the tax payer gets hosed.

Then why didn't the people vote those politicians out of office? I'm sure most of the abatements happen in Democrat cities anyway.

Gee why do many bad politicians get reelected? Are you really claiming all bad politicians get voted out?

The will if the local news shows people that an abatement was a net loss. Politicians have no reason to give a company a break unless it benefited the city or town in some way--usually financial.

Conservative and liberal groups have criticized the explosion in tax breaks under Christie, calling it textbook “corporate welfare” and noting that the state has garnered a record 10 credit-rating downgrades because of a lack of revenue to cover the cost of hospitals, pensions, schools, property tax rebates and other services. State revenue is not keeping pace with New Jersey’s ballooning, legally mandated costs, analysts at Fitch Ratings, Moody’s Investors Service and S&P Global Ratings say.

Lawmakers ignoring $7.4B boom in 'corporate welfare,' experts say

And how is NJ doing with all this corporate welfare?

N.J. economic recovery still lagging, despite recent jobs numbers

So they are growing slower than other states. That has nothing to do with any corporate welfare.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Utter bull. Nobody would give tax abatements if that were true.

I've given plenty of examples where the city/state and tax payers get hosed. Are you not paying attention? Politicians hand these things out. They say look at all these jobs we created. The corp gets tons of money, and the tax payer gets hosed.

Then why didn't the people vote those politicians out of office? I'm sure most of the abatements happen in Democrat cities anyway.

Gee why do many bad politicians get reelected? Are you really claiming all bad politicians get voted out?

The will if the local news shows people that an abatement was a net loss. Politicians have no reason to give a company a break unless it benefited the city or town in some way--usually financial.

Conservative and liberal groups have criticized the explosion in tax breaks under Christie, calling it textbook “corporate welfare” and noting that the state has garnered a record 10 credit-rating downgrades because of a lack of revenue to cover the cost of hospitals, pensions, schools, property tax rebates and other services. State revenue is not keeping pace with New Jersey’s ballooning, legally mandated costs, analysts at Fitch Ratings, Moody’s Investors Service and S&P Global Ratings say.

Lawmakers ignoring $7.4B boom in 'corporate welfare,' experts say

Look.......I can't take any of your articles that mention "corporate welfare" seriously. Corporate welfare is a liberal term that means (in mosts cases) tax cuts. Tax cuts are taking less in taxes--not giving anybody anything.

All money does not belong to government in spite of your wishes. What the government doesn't take is not a gift from them to you.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So my city collects three million dollars in taxes every year to support our city. A new business moves in and the city (with abatements) now collects 3.4 million in taxes every year. How did the taxpayer lose?

The new business is using .6 million in services.

Utter bull. Nobody would give tax abatements if that were true.

You can dispute the exact amount all you like, but the fact is that a huge new business would be imposing a significant additional cost on city and state government. Just the additional traffic would be a significant additional cost.

And you don't think the city or state had that figured out when they made the offer? What are those additional costs? A new stoplight or two, perhaps an additional lane to a main road?

Do you not see how government works? States go into debt for these stupid deals sometimes. You can't be serious. Have you noticed how deeply in debt our country is? Have you seen how deeply in debt many states are? Most politicians are not fiscally responsible. What more proof do you need?

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Name me one state that went into debt because they offered tax abatements. I guarantee you that any state with such financial troubles are far beyond tax abatements which usually bring in more money--not cost more money.

 

[Markle]

Why is that not happening in Seattle?

Because Seattle already had one of the highest costs of living in the country.

Seattle is also home Boeing, Microsoft, Amazon and several other huge companies. They could not find anyone willing to work for $7.50 an hour and most are paid in excess of $15.00 without a minimum.

Take that same minimum wage to Ocala, Florida or Bellington, Washington, and the place would be devastated.

You do make an exceptional case though for NOT making any minimum wage a Federal Law. Without question, it should be left to the local municipality.

 

[Aldo Raine]

Then why didn't the people vote those politicians out of office? I'm sure most of the abatements happen in Democrat cities anyway.

Gee why do many bad politicians get reelected? Are you really claiming all bad politicians get voted out?

The will if the local news shows people that an abatement was a net loss. Politicians have no reason to give a company a break unless it benefited the city or town in some way--usually financial.

Conservative and liberal groups have criticized the explosion in tax breaks under Christie, calling it textbook “corporate welfare” and noting that the state has garnered a record 10 credit-rating downgrades because of a lack of revenue to cover the cost of hospitals, pensions, schools, property tax rebates and other services. State revenue is not keeping pace with New Jersey’s ballooning, legally mandated costs, analysts at Fitch Ratings, Moody’s Investors Service and S&P Global Ratings say.

Lawmakers ignoring $7.4B boom in 'corporate welfare,' experts say

And how is NJ doing with all this corporate welfare?

N.J. economic recovery still lagging, despite recent jobs numbers

So they are growing slower than other states. That has nothing to do with any corporate welfare.

You are going to sit there and say it has no effect whatsoever? If you really believe that you sir can not be talked to or reasoned with

 

[Brain357]

Then why didn't the people vote those politicians out of office? I'm sure most of the abatements happen in Democrat cities anyway.

Gee why do many bad politicians get reelected? Are you really claiming all bad politicians get voted out?

The will if the local news shows people that an abatement was a net loss. Politicians have no reason to give a company a break unless it benefited the city or town in some way--usually financial.

Conservative and liberal groups have criticized the explosion in tax breaks under Christie, calling it textbook “corporate welfare” and noting that the state has garnered a record 10 credit-rating downgrades because of a lack of revenue to cover the cost of hospitals, pensions, schools, property tax rebates and other services. State revenue is not keeping pace with New Jersey’s ballooning, legally mandated costs, analysts at Fitch Ratings, Moody’s Investors Service and S&P Global Ratings say.

Lawmakers ignoring $7.4B boom in 'corporate welfare,' experts say

And how is NJ doing with all this corporate welfare?

N.J. economic recovery still lagging, despite recent jobs numbers

So they are growing slower than other states. That has nothing to do with any corporate welfare.

It shows it doesn't lead to greatness. 10 credit rating downgrades and a slow economy.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Gee why do many bad politicians get reelected? Are you really claiming all bad politicians get voted out?

The will if the local news shows people that an abatement was a net loss. Politicians have no reason to give a company a break unless it benefited the city or town in some way--usually financial.

Conservative and liberal groups have criticized the explosion in tax breaks under Christie, calling it textbook “corporate welfare” and noting that the state has garnered a record 10 credit-rating downgrades because of a lack of revenue to cover the cost of hospitals, pensions, schools, property tax rebates and other services. State revenue is not keeping pace with New Jersey’s ballooning, legally mandated costs, analysts at Fitch Ratings, Moody’s Investors Service and S&P Global Ratings say.

Lawmakers ignoring $7.4B boom in 'corporate welfare,' experts say

And how is NJ doing with all this corporate welfare?

N.J. economic recovery still lagging, despite recent jobs numbers

So they are growing slower than other states. That has nothing to do with any corporate welfare.

It shows it doesn't lead to greatness. 10 credit rating downgrades and a slow economy.

Because it doesn't show it leads to greatness, it must be responsible? Where in the world do you get that logic from?

Nobody ever said that tax abatements were an all out problem solver. It would be like me making the claim that if not for tax abatement, the state would be growing even slower. There's no way to possibly prove that claim.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Gee why do many bad politicians get reelected? Are you really claiming all bad politicians get voted out?

The will if the local news shows people that an abatement was a net loss. Politicians have no reason to give a company a break unless it benefited the city or town in some way--usually financial.

Conservative and liberal groups have criticized the explosion in tax breaks under Christie, calling it textbook “corporate welfare” and noting that the state has garnered a record 10 credit-rating downgrades because of a lack of revenue to cover the cost of hospitals, pensions, schools, property tax rebates and other services. State revenue is not keeping pace with New Jersey’s ballooning, legally mandated costs, analysts at Fitch Ratings, Moody’s Investors Service and S&P Global Ratings say.

Lawmakers ignoring $7.4B boom in 'corporate welfare,' experts say

And how is NJ doing with all this corporate welfare?

N.J. economic recovery still lagging, despite recent jobs numbers

So they are growing slower than other states. That has nothing to do with any corporate welfare.

You are going to sit there and say it has no effect whatsoever? If you really believe that you sir can not be talked to or reasoned with

Then don't talk or try to reason with me. Problem solved.

 

[OnePercenter]

How much in benefits does a community receive when say a Walmart locates in their area? Or, a distribution hub for Walmart, Amazon or other large corporation?

"
NORTH RANDALL, Ohio - Amazon will bring more than 2,000 jobs to the tiny Cuyahoga County village of North Randall, where a massive fulfillment center is slated to rise from the demolition dust of Randall Park Mall.

The e-commerce giant finalized a lease deal Thursday on a planned 855,000-square-foot building, which could open during the second half of next year on a 69-acre site at Warrensville Center and Emery roads. News of the potential deal broke in July, after the project cropped up on a public meeting agenda. But North Randall was vying against other, unidentified sites.

The North Randall Village Council and the Warrensville Heights Board of Education have approved 15 years of 75 percent property-tax abatement for the Amazon facility. School board records show the village will pass along 33 percent of its income-tax collections from workers at the fulfillment center to the district."

Amazon commits to North Randall fulfillment center, with 2,000-plus jobs on former mall site

"Full-time employees at Amazon receive highly-competitive pay, health insurance, disability insurance, retirement savings plans and company stock starting on day one. The company offers up to 20 weeks of paid leave and innovative benefits such as Leave Share and Ramp Back, which give new parents flexibility with their growing families. Amazon also offers hourly employees its Career Choice program which helps train employees for in-demand jobs at Amazon and other companies so they can prepare for the future and take full advantage of the nation's innovation economy. The program pre-pays 95% of tuition for courses in in-demand, high-wage fields, regardless of whether the skills are relevant to a future career at Amazon. Over 10,000 employees have participated in Career Choice and more are signing up every day."

An Amazon Fulfillment Center Officially Comes to Former Randall Park Mall Site, Needs Workers

Nah, we don't want it. That's the village picking winners......namely the citizens of their village and surrounding areas where those employees will be hired from.

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? If so why do they need a special deal on taxes?

The amazon around here doesn't pay much and has lots of turnover btw.

There are several articles on this subject that refutes what you claim.

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? Of course it is. Or do you think it's better for business to leave that mall in a pile of rubble?

They need a tax deal to keep their prices lower and provide good paying jobs with the best of benefits as the article outlines.

Lots of construction, lots of good paying jobs afterwards, the school system makes out, the taxpayers make out, even the state makes out. The domino effect of companies that provide Amazon with packing materials, trucking, and technology a plus.

Everybody wins, and tax abatements are responsible for it.

Good paying jobs? You're kidding, right?

It's already been posted on this board.

A supervisor at Amazon makes $15.65/hr which is crap pay. You have to stand for 8 hours in heat up to 90 degrees because Amazon doesn't believe in air conditioning. To qualify you need a bachelor's degree. Would anyone in their right mind pay $50K for an education for that job?

The American worker is woefully underpaid.

Amazon doesn't need subsidies. Period.

Here's a solution: stop importing cheap labor from Mexico.

A national minimum wage.

 

[dblack]

I've given plenty of examples where the city/state and tax payers get hosed. Are you not paying attention? Politicians hand these things out. They say look at all these jobs we created. The corp gets tons of money, and the tax payer gets hosed.

Then why didn't the people vote those politicians out of office? I'm sure most of the abatements happen in Democrat cities anyway.

Gee why do many bad politicians get reelected? Are you really claiming all bad politicians get voted out?

The will if the local news shows people that an abatement was a net loss. Politicians have no reason to give a company a break unless it benefited the city or town in some way--usually financial.

Conservative and liberal groups have criticized the explosion in tax breaks under Christie, calling it textbook “corporate welfare” and noting that the state has garnered a record 10 credit-rating downgrades because of a lack of revenue to cover the cost of hospitals, pensions, schools, property tax rebates and other services. State revenue is not keeping pace with New Jersey’s ballooning, legally mandated costs, analysts at Fitch Ratings, Moody’s Investors Service and S&P Global Ratings say.

Lawmakers ignoring $7.4B boom in 'corporate welfare,' experts say

Look.......I can't take any of your articles that mention "corporate welfare" seriously. Corporate welfare is a liberal term that means (in mosts cases) tax cuts. Tax cuts are taking less in taxes--not giving anybody anything.

All money does not belong to government in spite of your wishes. What the government doesn't take is not a gift from them to you.

Who cares? Seriously, why does this seem like a relevant point to you?

 

[Brain357]

The will if the local news shows people that an abatement was a net loss. Politicians have no reason to give a company a break unless it benefited the city or town in some way--usually financial.

Conservative and liberal groups have criticized the explosion in tax breaks under Christie, calling it textbook “corporate welfare” and noting that the state has garnered a record 10 credit-rating downgrades because of a lack of revenue to cover the cost of hospitals, pensions, schools, property tax rebates and other services. State revenue is not keeping pace with New Jersey’s ballooning, legally mandated costs, analysts at Fitch Ratings, Moody’s Investors Service and S&P Global Ratings say.

Lawmakers ignoring $7.4B boom in 'corporate welfare,' experts say

And how is NJ doing with all this corporate welfare?

N.J. economic recovery still lagging, despite recent jobs numbers

So they are growing slower than other states. That has nothing to do with any corporate welfare.

It shows it doesn't lead to greatness. 10 credit rating downgrades and a slow economy.

Because it doesn't show it leads to greatness, it must be responsible? Where in the world do you get that logic from?

Nobody ever said that tax abatements were an all out problem solver. It would be like me making the claim that if not for tax abatement, the state would be growing even slower. There's no way to possibly prove that claim.

It goes against capitalism and the free market. That is bad for an economy. You can't show it does any good. Why do you support this garbage? I've given you example after example of it doing bad things, yet you insist it is a good thing. You make no sense.