CDZ Cop shootings....It may be a race problem, but it is a cop problem and we need to resolve it

[PredFan]

The two are not connected even a little bit.

You say

It isn't a problem at all.

so that obviously means black lives don't matter when the OP is about excessive force used on blacks.

Then explain how they are connected. Quoting the OP doesn't cut it when the OP cannot even explain how they are connected.

 

[cnm]

If blacks being shot by police at an excessive rate isn't a problem then black lives don't matter.

It isn't rocket science.

 

[PredFan]

If blacks being shot by police at an excessive rate isn't a problem then black lives don't matter.

It isn't rocket science.

Where your reasoning fails is that they aren't being shot at an excessive rate and in 99% of the cases, they were in the wrong. It isn't about black lives at all despite the fact that you, the media, the left, and the race greivance industry try to pretend that it is.

 

[320 Years of History]

It isn't a cop problem. It isn't a problem at all. It's a political football exaggerated by the Race Grievance Industry, and the left wing MSM.

WTF?

The Race Grievance Industry. Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, et.al, who make their living off of the division between the races. There are others, those who make their living off of the division between Hispanics and whites, Native Americans and everyone else, etc., etc. the last thing these people want is for the races to get along. It would mean the end of the gravy train for those people.

Off Topic:
I think those individuals will be flattered were they to learn you think the things they do rise to the level of being an industry.

 

[PredFan]

It isn't a cop problem. It isn't a problem at all. It's a political football exaggerated by the Race Grievance Industry, and the left wing MSM.

WTF?

The Race Grievance Industry. Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, et.al, who make their living off of the division between the races. There are others, those who make their living off of the division between Hispanics and whites, Native Americans and everyone else, etc., etc. the last thing these people want is for the races to get along. It would mean the end of the gravy train for those people.

Off Topic:
I think those individuals will be flattered were they to learn you think the things they do rise to the level of being an industry.

Perhaps they will, but they won't deny it.

 

[320 Years of History]

It isn't a cop problem. It isn't a problem at all. It's a political football exaggerated by the Race Grievance Industry, and the left wing MSM.

WTF?

The Race Grievance Industry. Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, et.al, who make their living off of the division between the races. There are others, those who make their living off of the division between Hispanics and whites, Native Americans and everyone else, etc., etc. the last thing these people want is for the races to get along. It would mean the end of the gravy train for those people.

Off Topic:
I think those individuals will be flattered were they to learn you think the things they do rise to the level of being an industry.

Perhaps they will, but they won't deny it.

I can't tell you what they'd do. I don't know them well enough to make that kind of claim about them.

 

[Meathead]

Cop shootings is neither a race nor cop problem. It's a crime problem. Better yet, it's the problem of criminals, and that is at it should be.

 

[GaryDog]

I figured it wouldn't take long for certain people to turn this thread into a Klan rally. Always seems to happen here.

 

[Toronado3800]

but just because I correctly point out that it isn't a cop problem,

You also pointed out it isn't a problem at all, which aligns with my point that black lives don't matter.

Black lives matter less to blacks than they do anyone else. If they really want anyone to buy what thier selling they need to clean thier own house before they even consider anyone else's. It's past time for the negroes to put up, or shut up. Across the board, no one cares more about a group than the members of that group themselves. So don't expect every one else to be overly concerned when the majority of negroes themselves couldn't possibly care less. That's just the way the world works, no matter who you are.

I have read this several times on here.

While I think racism is a bigger problem than police violence there is a logic flaw with this statement.

Consider:
Two wrongs do not make a right. If you beat your wife, it does not make it ok for me to.

People know there is a violence problem in the ghetto. This is not news to whites, blacks or anyone.

If your tires need rotated it is not an excuse to skip changing your oil.

 

[GLASNOST]

The problem is the American culture of Hero Worshiping - Ridiculing - and the Hollywood Mentality.

You are forever telling your countrymen that every soldier is a 'hero'. False.
You believe that ridiculing your children and your team members will bring out the best in them. False.
You somehow believe that Joan Wayne (who never severed in the military), is the person every man should be. False.

All 3 of these have an underlying theme: RESPECT. In itself the idea of respect is good. But America has baked it in the oven and churned it through Hollywood so that Americans think that every time they walk into a room the whole place should give out a cheer and look at you with dreamy eyes. Tweeking the problem up a notch is this American idea of "With us or against us". This means that a 'lack'of respect' is considered 'disrespect'. And there is the problem with your police. They want respect. Lots of it. And if you don't give it to them you are fair game for a beating, a tasing, or a perforating bullet hole.

 

[OldLady]

I agree with the OP that police need better training in coping with de-escalation techniques, mental health problems, drug frenzies and social issues. Better pay has to go along with that. We give police the ultimate choice in our society--the right to kill in order to protect their lives and the lives of others. They had BEST be professionals who know what to do when deciding to take a life.

I am a strong proponent for cops. They have a truly tough, dangerous job and deal with a bunch of shit on the job and off for their career choice. We require teachers of kindergarteners to attend college for five years, get state licensing and to engage in ongoing professional development throughout their careers. Why aren't the people shouldering the burden of life and death given anywhere near that amount of careful training?

I don't think cops should have to attend college for five years, but more training is absolutely called for. A high school education, clean record and a few months in police academy is all it takes to be a cop, and the deputies around here make $12-something an hour to start. Their job carries the ultimate responsibility. It should be treated more seriously than a school bus driver.

The Town of ***** Police Department is accepting resumes/applications for the following positions:
Part-Time Police Officers
Requirements: Candidates must hold a valid **** driver's license, be at least 21 years of age, and hold a high school diploma or GED equivalent. Candidates who have made the final selection must pass a thorough background check and may be required to successfully complete a polygraph examination.
MCJA Alert Test and Pre-Service certificate required for candidates who are not BLETP or Basic School graduates.
Please send resume to the address below. Position will remain open until filled.

Job Type: Part-time

Required education:

• High school or equivalent

Required license or certification:

• Valid *** Driver's License

 

[Picaro]

I am supportive of the Black Lives Matter movement, but I have also maintained that while the issue of police using undue force seems more dire to, for and with blacks, a material part of the problem is the type of people who are sworn onto police forces.

Video of police shooting that killed 6-year-old autistic La. boy released​

As a nation, we need to raise bar for what kinds of characters would be police officers need to have. Additionally, I think that in addition to law enforcement training, cops need to have psychology/sociology training so that they are better able to make equitable, accurate and well informed decisions about the people whom they encounter.

I think too cops need to be trained on how to control/ignore their understandably negative bias toward potential offenders. I think that because it's all but certain that cops, given the nature of their job, are inclined to think "the worst" more so than giving folks the benefit of the doubt. Cops are, however, hired to enforce laws, not pass judgement on folks suspected of breaking them, which is the role of judges and juries. Cops need to learn how to maintain objectively and neutrality in carrying out their duties and in interacting with citizens.

• Building Trust Between the Police and the Citizens They Serve
  
• Life as a Cop The Impacts of Policing on Police Officers: Is Policing a Lifestyle Choice?
  
• POLICE CYNICISM: POLICE SURVIVAL TOOL?
  
• SHEDDING LIGHT ON POLICE CULTURE: AN EXAMINATION OF OFFICERS’ OCCUPATIONAL ATTITUDES
  
• POLICE ATTITUDES: THE IMPACT OF EXPERIENCE AFTER TRAINING
  
• Police Attitudes Toward Abuse of Authority: Findings From a National Study
  
• Police Officers' Decision Making and Discretion: Forming Suspicion and Making a Stop
  
• Police Culture and the Learning Organisation: A Relationship?

It's a made up, fake problem, and statistically insignificant. With over 42,000 violent assaults on police officers every year, and of course being greatly increased under this fake BLM scam, some 800 shootings a year don't amount to anything in real life, and of those only about 130 or so are blacks, and only 30 of the entire total are unarmed, and of those 30 almost none are a result of police mistakes. Time to admit this is a media hoax and only dishonest hacks keep trying to perpetuate the myth.

 

[Picaro]

but just because I correctly point out that it isn't a cop problem,

You also pointed out it isn't a problem at all, which aligns with my point that black lives don't matter.

No, your logic is faulty. The two are not connected even a little bit. All lives, including black lives and cop lives matter, but there still isn't enough of a problem to change the whole system. The BLM movement is based on lies.

Yes, it is, and since it's now common knowledge it is just another media hoax with a dishonest agenda behind it, there is no need to take anybody still peddling the garbage seriously. This is just another troll thread by and for sociopaths.

 

[PredFan]

but just because I correctly point out that it isn't a cop problem,

You also pointed out it isn't a problem at all, which aligns with my point that black lives don't matter.

No, your logic is faulty. The two are not connected even a little bit. All lives, including black lives and cop lives matter, but there still isn't enough of a problem to change the whole system. The BLM movement is based on lies.

Yes, it is, and since it's now common knowledge it is just another media hoax with a dishonest agenda behind it, there is no need to take anybody still peddling the garbage seriously.

Saying that " there isn't a problem with the police" means that "black lives don't matter" is beyond ridiculous. There is no logical or rational connection between the two.

 

[Mac1958]

I am supportive of the Black Lives Matter movement, but I have also maintained that while the issue of police using undue force seems more dire to, for and with blacks, a material part of the problem is the type of people who are sworn onto police forces.

Video of police shooting that killed 6-year-old autistic La. boy released​

As a nation, we need to raise bar for what kinds of characters would be police officers need to have. Additionally, I think that in addition to law enforcement training, cops need to have psychology/sociology training so that they are better able to make equitable, accurate and well informed decisions about the people whom they encounter.

I think too cops need to be trained on how to control/ignore their understandably negative bias toward potential offenders. I think that because it's all but certain that cops, given the nature of their job, are inclined to think "the worst" more so than giving folks the benefit of the doubt. Cops are, however, hired to enforce laws, not pass judgement on folks suspected of breaking them, which is the role of judges and juries. Cops need to learn how to maintain objectively and neutrality in carrying out their duties and in interacting with citizens.

• Building Trust Between the Police and the Citizens They Serve
  
• Life as a Cop The Impacts of Policing on Police Officers: Is Policing a Lifestyle Choice?
  
• POLICE CYNICISM: POLICE SURVIVAL TOOL?
  
• SHEDDING LIGHT ON POLICE CULTURE: AN EXAMINATION OF OFFICERS’ OCCUPATIONAL ATTITUDES
  
• POLICE ATTITUDES: THE IMPACT OF EXPERIENCE AFTER TRAINING
  
• Police Attitudes Toward Abuse of Authority: Findings From a National Study
  
• Police Officers' Decision Making and Discretion: Forming Suspicion and Making a Stop
  
• Police Culture and the Learning Organisation: A Relationship?

As with most issues, both "sides" of this debate should be cleaning their own house before pointing the finger at each other.

Your ideas (and others I've seen) to improve law enforcement's perceptions and approach are perfectly reasonable. At the same time, we also know that in many of these cases the suspect had been resisting arrest to some degree, and that problem must be addressed from within the "black community".

What we are lacking right now are "leaders" who are willing to motivate their "side" to look in the mirror and hold itself accountable, and what we have far too much of are people who don't appear to want this problem to be fixed - they're happy deflecting blame and pointing the finger.
.

 

[320 Years of History]

You are forever telling your countrymen that every soldier is a 'hero'. False.
You believe that ridiculing your children and your team members will bring out the best in them. False.
You somehow believe that Joan Wayne (who never severed in the military), is the person every man should be. False.

"You" who? Do you mean me? Do you mean someone other than me? I'm not sure of whom you're referring.

Tweeking the problem up a notch is this American idea of "With us or against us". This means that a 'lack'of respect' is considered 'disrespect'. And there is the problem with your police. They want respect. Lots of it. And if you don't give it to them you are fair game for a beating, a tasing, or a perforating bullet hole.

Red:
I agree that binary modes of thought are pervasive in the U.S. and ineptly applied to all sorts of things, including the example situation you described. Reading around on this forum, one sees daily illustrations of folks interpreting remarks as though they are "either or" expressions of thought, yet quite often a simple duality is unsupported by the remark.

Furthermore, on USMB, I've observed countless instances of folks focusing on what someone does not say more so than on what the writer did say. I'm sure folks think they are making logical inferences and extrapolations of the ideas expressed, but that's not how one rationally develops inferences. To do that one must take what is said and carry it forward, not take what is said and "flip" it to what was not said or to what is one of its contrary ideas.

I wish I knew why folks do that, but I don't. Were I to speculate on why, I'd say they see themselves as following George W. Bush's example from his 9/11 speech when he said one is with the U.S. or against it and that there's no in-between. I suspect that basic theme is what drives the mentality of most "average" Americans and certainly police officers, who unfortunately are not, IMO and generally, "above average" logicians.

 

[GLASNOST]

"You" who? Do you mean me? Do you mean someone other than me? I'm not sure of whom you're referring.

I didn't really give it too much thought. I suppose that I ought have said "one".

Furthermore, on USMB, I've observed countless instances of folks focusing on what someone does not say more so than on what the writer did say.

I often try to explain by asking what it means to say, "I don't believe in God" and too often people don't understand the difference between "not believing" and "disbelieving" ..... even after a lengthy discussion on the subject they still don't get it.

I agree that binary modes of thought are pervasive in the U.S. and ineptly applied to all sorts of things, including the example situation you described. Reading around on this forum, one sees daily illustrations of folks interpreting remarks as though they are "either or" expressions of thought, yet quite often a simple duality is unsupported by the remark.

I'm sure folks think they are making logical inferences and extrapolations of the ideas expressed, but that's not how one rationally develops inferences. To do that one must take what is said and carry it forward, not take what is said and "flip" it to what was not said or to what is one of its contrary ideas.

I wish I knew why folks do that, but I don't. Were I to speculate on why, I'd say they see themselves as following George W. Bush's example from his 9/11 speech when he said one is with the U.S. or against it and that there's no in-between. I suspect that basic theme is what drives the mentality of most "average" Americans and certainly police officers, who unfortunately are not, IMO and generally, "above average" logicians.

It's a great pleasure to read someone with a deeper understanding than simply "with you" or "against you". I'm getting tired of reading 'Leftist!' 'Liberal!' 'Conservative!' 'Typical Democrat!' 'Typical Republican!' "Hater!'

So, it is my fundamental belief that the problem with American police is this fixation with RESPECT. They think their uniform demands respect ... and it is a VERY PERSONAL thing with them .... it has nothing to do with their duties. It is taught early on that a child should respect his parents, but the idea that parents ought to deserve respect by example (rather than by fear of a spanking) seems to have gone amiss. The police are taking that misconception with them to work.

 

[320 Years of History]

I am supportive of the Black Lives Matter movement, but I have also maintained that while the issue of police using undue force seems more dire to, for and with blacks, a material part of the problem is the type of people who are sworn onto police forces.

Video of police shooting that killed 6-year-old autistic La. boy released​

As a nation, we need to raise bar for what kinds of characters would be police officers need to have. Additionally, I think that in addition to law enforcement training, cops need to have psychology/sociology training so that they are better able to make equitable, accurate and well informed decisions about the people whom they encounter.

I think too cops need to be trained on how to control/ignore their understandably negative bias toward potential offenders. I think that because it's all but certain that cops, given the nature of their job, are inclined to think "the worst" more so than giving folks the benefit of the doubt. Cops are, however, hired to enforce laws, not pass judgement on folks suspected of breaking them, which is the role of judges and juries. Cops need to learn how to maintain objectively and neutrality in carrying out their duties and in interacting with citizens.

• Building Trust Between the Police and the Citizens They Serve
  
• Life as a Cop The Impacts of Policing on Police Officers: Is Policing a Lifestyle Choice?
  
• POLICE CYNICISM: POLICE SURVIVAL TOOL?
  
• SHEDDING LIGHT ON POLICE CULTURE: AN EXAMINATION OF OFFICERS’ OCCUPATIONAL ATTITUDES
  
• POLICE ATTITUDES: THE IMPACT OF EXPERIENCE AFTER TRAINING
  
• Police Attitudes Toward Abuse of Authority: Findings From a National Study
  
• Police Officers' Decision Making and Discretion: Forming Suspicion and Making a Stop
  
• Police Culture and the Learning Organisation: A Relationship?

As with most issues, both "sides" of this debate should be cleaning their own house before pointing the finger at each other.

Your ideas (and others I've seen) to improve law enforcement's perceptions and approach are perfectly reasonable. At the same time, we also know that in many of these cases the suspect had been resisting arrest to some degree, and that problem must be addressed from within the "black community".

What we are lacking right now are "leaders" who are willing to motivate their "side" to look in the mirror and hold itself accountable, and what we have far too much of are people who don't appear to want this problem to be fixed - they're happy deflecting blame and pointing the finger.
.

I agree with the basic theme of your remarks.

I don't know that resisting arrest is a cultural thing as is implied by "problem must be addressed from within the "black community." I think resisting arrest is someting individuals choose to do all on their own. I'm not aware of any "black community-wide" movement that advocates individuals to resist arrest. Resisting arrest is not the same thing as, say, a boycott, such as the Montgomery, AL bus boycott which was a black community-wide thing.

 

[Mac1958]

I am supportive of the Black Lives Matter movement, but I have also maintained that while the issue of police using undue force seems more dire to, for and with blacks, a material part of the problem is the type of people who are sworn onto police forces.

Video of police shooting that killed 6-year-old autistic La. boy released​

As a nation, we need to raise bar for what kinds of characters would be police officers need to have. Additionally, I think that in addition to law enforcement training, cops need to have psychology/sociology training so that they are better able to make equitable, accurate and well informed decisions about the people whom they encounter.

I think too cops need to be trained on how to control/ignore their understandably negative bias toward potential offenders. I think that because it's all but certain that cops, given the nature of their job, are inclined to think "the worst" more so than giving folks the benefit of the doubt. Cops are, however, hired to enforce laws, not pass judgement on folks suspected of breaking them, which is the role of judges and juries. Cops need to learn how to maintain objectively and neutrality in carrying out their duties and in interacting with citizens.

• Building Trust Between the Police and the Citizens They Serve
  
• Life as a Cop The Impacts of Policing on Police Officers: Is Policing a Lifestyle Choice?
  
• POLICE CYNICISM: POLICE SURVIVAL TOOL?
  
• SHEDDING LIGHT ON POLICE CULTURE: AN EXAMINATION OF OFFICERS’ OCCUPATIONAL ATTITUDES
  
• POLICE ATTITUDES: THE IMPACT OF EXPERIENCE AFTER TRAINING
  
• Police Attitudes Toward Abuse of Authority: Findings From a National Study
  
• Police Officers' Decision Making and Discretion: Forming Suspicion and Making a Stop
  
• Police Culture and the Learning Organisation: A Relationship?

As with most issues, both "sides" of this debate should be cleaning their own house before pointing the finger at each other.

Your ideas (and others I've seen) to improve law enforcement's perceptions and approach are perfectly reasonable. At the same time, we also know that in many of these cases the suspect had been resisting arrest to some degree, and that problem must be addressed from within the "black community".

What we are lacking right now are "leaders" who are willing to motivate their "side" to look in the mirror and hold itself accountable, and what we have far too much of are people who don't appear to want this problem to be fixed - they're happy deflecting blame and pointing the finger.
.

I agree with the basic theme of your remarks.

I don't know that resisting arrest is a cultural thing as is implied by "problem must be addressed from within the "black community." I think resisting arrest is someting individuals choose to do all on their own. I'm not aware of any "black community-wide" movement that advocates individuals to resist arrest. Resisting arrest is not the same thing as, say, a boycott, such as the Montgomery, AL bus boycott which was a black community-wide thing.

Honestly, I'm not sure either.

I just see a pretty clear trend - young black men being killed by cops after they resisted arrest - and it happens in such a high percentage of these events that I do wonder.
.

 

[320 Years of History]

"You" who? Do you mean me? Do you mean someone other than me? I'm not sure of whom you're referring.

I didn't really give it too much thought. I suppose that I ought have said "one".

Furthermore, on USMB, I've observed countless instances of folks focusing on what someone does not say more so than on what the writer did say.

I often try to explain by asking what it means to say, "I don't believe in God" and too often people don't understand the difference between "not believing" and "disbelieving" ..... even after a lengthy discussion on the subject they still don't get it.

I agree that binary modes of thought are pervasive in the U.S. and ineptly applied to all sorts of things, including the example situation you described. Reading around on this forum, one sees daily illustrations of folks interpreting remarks as though they are "either or" expressions of thought, yet quite often a simple duality is unsupported by the remark.

I'm sure folks think they are making logical inferences and extrapolations of the ideas expressed, but that's not how one rationally develops inferences. To do that one must take what is said and carry it forward, not take what is said and "flip" it to what was not said or to what is one of its contrary ideas.

I wish I knew why folks do that, but I don't. Were I to speculate on why, I'd say they see themselves as following George W. Bush's example from his 9/11 speech when he said one is with the U.S. or against it and that there's no in-between. I suspect that basic theme is what drives the mentality of most "average" Americans and certainly police officers, who unfortunately are not, IMO and generally, "above average" logicians.

It's a great pleasure to read someone with a deeper understanding than simply "with you" or "against you". I'm getting tired of reading 'Leftist!' 'Liberal!' 'Conservative!' 'Typical Democrat!' 'Typical Republican!' "Hater!'

So, it is my fundamental belief that the problem with American police is this fixation with RESPECT. They think their uniform demands respect ... and it is a VERY PERSONAL thing with them .... it has nothing to do with their duties. It is taught early on that a child should respect his parents, but the idea that parents ought to deserve respect by example (rather than by fear of a spanking) seems to have gone amiss. The police are taking that misconception with them to work.

Red:
TY for the clarification. I understand.

Blue:
TY. To the extent you refer to me, don't get used to seeing it. I won't be participating here after November 9th, perhaps the 10th if it takes that long to get the election results.