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Cop Killers in Kansas City. This is the secret to getting away.

SavannahMann

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It’s important to put stories in context. So we should begin with the Trial and Conviction of Detective Eric DeValkenaere.

The man decided he didn’t want to be tried by a Jury of his Peers. He wanted the dispassionate consideration of the Law by a trained professional. A Judge. So former Detective DeValkenaere asked for a Bench Trial. The Prosecutor was undeterred, and agreed. The trial was held, the Judge found DeValkenaere guilty. There have been a couple threads on the boards. Go look them up. Now, with a Jury you can appeal to their emotions, but with a Judge, it’s all down to the facts, and the law.

The Judge ruled that there was no exigent circumstances, and the shooting was not justified. Right or wrong, I honestly don’t know.

What I do know is the reported response of the Kansas City Police to the Verdict. They are now refusing to enter private property without a warrant.


So according to the statement by the Police themselves, they just aren’t entering any private property without a warrant until the Verdict is overturned. I immediately suspected this policy only affects you the citizenry if you are committing a crime. But sooner or later, someone is going to test this. They’ll kill a cop, and flee through a private property. Anyone want to bet the Cops don’t break off pursuit when one of them is the victim of the baddie? Anyone want to bet they don’t just give up and go on back to the Station?

We’ll see, probably not in the distant future either.

Look. I’ve spoken many times about cops being sacrificed to the public opinion. It isn’t BLM that is the cause of the sacrifice, or ANTIFA, or any of those Left Wing Groups. It’s average Jack and Jill Citizen. The average person doesn’t want to believe that cops break the rules. The average citizen wants to believe that the cops are law abiding as well as law enforcing. But when a story comes out about a guy getting shot by the cops in questionable circumstances, the cops sacrifice the one “bad apple” to placate the public. Not the left, but you on the Right, and in the Center.

As for me, I continue to believe that reform is needed at all levels of policing. From the lowliest two or three man departments to the largest and most powerful. City, County, State, and Federal. And I’ve thought so for more than two decades. One of those first reforms is true accountability.
 

Godboy

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It’s important to put stories in context. So we should begin with the Trial and Conviction of Detective Eric DeValkenaere.

The man decided he didn’t want to be tried by a Jury of his Peers. He wanted the dispassionate consideration of the Law by a trained professional. A Judge. So former Detective DeValkenaere asked for a Bench Trial. The Prosecutor was undeterred, and agreed. The trial was held, the Judge found DeValkenaere guilty. There have been a couple threads on the boards. Go look them up. Now, with a Jury you can appeal to their emotions, but with a Judge, it’s all down to the facts, and the law.

The Judge ruled that there was no exigent circumstances, and the shooting was not justified. Right or wrong, I honestly don’t know.

What I do know is the reported response of the Kansas City Police to the Verdict. They are now refusing to enter private property without a warrant.


So according to the statement by the Police themselves, they just aren’t entering any private property without a warrant until the Verdict is overturned. I immediately suspected this policy only affects you the citizenry if you are committing a crime. But sooner or later, someone is going to test this. They’ll kill a cop, and flee through a private property. Anyone want to bet the Cops don’t break off pursuit when one of them is the victim of the baddie? Anyone want to bet they don’t just give up and go on back to the Station?

We’ll see, probably not in the distant future either.

Look. I’ve spoken many times about cops being sacrificed to the public opinion. It isn’t BLM that is the cause of the sacrifice, or ANTIFA, or any of those Left Wing Groups. It’s average Jack and Jill Citizen. The average person doesn’t want to believe that cops break the rules. The average citizen wants to believe that the cops are law abiding as well as law enforcing. But when a story comes out about a guy getting shot by the cops in questionable circumstances, the cops sacrifice the one “bad apple” to placate the public. Not the left, but you on the Right, and in the Center.

As for me, I continue to believe that reform is needed at all levels of policing. From the lowliest two or three man departments to the largest and most powerful. City, County, State, and Federal. And I’ve thought so for more than two decades. One of those first reforms is true accountability.
If they are putting cops in jail for entering property without a warrant, then of course you wont see cops doing that anymore. KC is now less safe as a result. If your community wants to demonize cops, dont start complaining when that community devolves into a crime ridden shithole.
 

JoeB131

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The problem here is these cops committed clear dereliction of duty by NOT entering the house and making sure it was okay. So if these officers are not being disciplined, then this is a clear problem with command.

I'm not sure what your point is here, exactly?

ARe you upset some cops are getting a raw deal in these cases? Yes, some are. It doesn't sound like this was the case with the Lamb shooting, Eric DeValkanaere was clearly in the wrong.
 

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Is there any body cam footage of Eric Devalkenaere shooting Cameron Lamb or the chase leading up to it?
 
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SavannahMann

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Is there any body cam footage of Eric Devalkenaere shooting Cameron Lamb or the chase leading up to it?

Not that I am aware of. The “chase” consisted of a Red Pick Up Truck evading police. Later an Air Unit spotted a “Red Pick Up Truck” pulling into the property. That is why the Judge said that the police were not in pursuit. They didn’t ask permission of the people they spotted outside. They just ran to the truck being backed into the garage.

The partner of DeValkenaere said that the victim’s left hand was on the steering wheel, not holding a gun. That sunk the shooter.
 
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SavannahMann

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The problem here is these cops committed clear dereliction of duty by NOT entering the house and making sure it was okay. So if these officers are not being disciplined, then this is a clear problem with command.

I'm not sure what your point is here, exactly?

ARe you upset some cops are getting a raw deal in these cases? Yes, some are. It doesn't sound like this was the case with the Lamb shooting, Eric DeValkanaere was clearly in the wrong.

I didn’t follow the case. I don’t know enough to say he got a raw deal, or not. From my limited understanding, it doesn’t sound as if he did. My objection is to the police throwing those who are caught under the bus, when they all do it, or could have.

The better known case is of course Derek Chauvin. I know more about that case, so I’ll use it as an example of my objections. Chauvin had nearly twenty complaints, a dozen or so upheld by investigation. In other words, he was a repeat offender of policy and the law. Yet he was never disciplined.

He got a slap on the wrist while being patted on the back. So the message he got, the lesson he learned was that breaking the rules was fine, the other cops wanted him to, if only unofficially, and that a good cop was going to get complaints and be slapped on the wrist.

Imagine how the Floyd case would have turned out if he had been disciplined early on. If his employment or even freedom had been threatened, or if they had terminated his employment years earlier. Perhaps Floyd would still be dead, perhaps from an overdose, perhaps from someone else’s actions. But Chauvin would not be in prison.

This is the pattern you see all too often. Cops congratulating those who break the rules, because they are “good cops” and the rules are bullshit. Then something tragic happens, and the lies are exposed. Then the “good cop” is thrown to the wolves to protect the others. I’ve said before, we could write the script about what is going to happen the next time something comes up. The next time a tragic situation develops. The cop in question was in the wrong, and does not reflect the rest of the officers who are shocked and humiliated by the criminal actions of the bad cop.

Take any of the recent stories and you’ll see the same pattern, but nothing changes. The cops don’t get more training, the supervisors don’t demand that the cops follow the rules anywhere but Hollywood for the cop TV shows, sometimes.

I like and hate NCIS as a show. I like the production and acting, and the people. But I hate it as a Cop show. Because every week Gibbs broke the law to get the baddie. And every week he was tolerated, and even encouraged to do so. By rights, Gibbs should be doing more time than everyone he’s arrested, combined.

If I object to anything, it’s the hypocrisy.
 
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SavannahMann

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If they are putting cops in jail for entering property without a warrant, then of course you wont see cops doing that anymore. KC is now less safe as a result. If your community wants to demonize cops, dont start complaining when that community devolves into a crime ridden shithole.

What is the job of Police?
 

Vastator

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It’s important to put stories in context. So we should begin with the Trial and Conviction of Detective Eric DeValkenaere.

The man decided he didn’t want to be tried by a Jury of his Peers. He wanted the dispassionate consideration of the Law by a trained professional. A Judge. So former Detective DeValkenaere asked for a Bench Trial. The Prosecutor was undeterred, and agreed. The trial was held, the Judge found DeValkenaere guilty. There have been a couple threads on the boards. Go look them up. Now, with a Jury you can appeal to their emotions, but with a Judge, it’s all down to the facts, and the law.

The Judge ruled that there was no exigent circumstances, and the shooting was not justified. Right or wrong, I honestly don’t know.

What I do know is the reported response of the Kansas City Police to the Verdict. They are now refusing to enter private property without a warrant.


So according to the statement by the Police themselves, they just aren’t entering any private property without a warrant until the Verdict is overturned. I immediately suspected this policy only affects you the citizenry if you are committing a crime. But sooner or later, someone is going to test this. They’ll kill a cop, and flee through a private property. Anyone want to bet the Cops don’t break off pursuit when one of them is the victim of the baddie? Anyone want to bet they don’t just give up and go on back to the Station?

We’ll see, probably not in the distant future either.

Look. I’ve spoken many times about cops being sacrificed to the public opinion. It isn’t BLM that is the cause of the sacrifice, or ANTIFA, or any of those Left Wing Groups. It’s average Jack and Jill Citizen. The average person doesn’t want to believe that cops break the rules. The average citizen wants to believe that the cops are law abiding as well as law enforcing. But when a story comes out about a guy getting shot by the cops in questionable circumstances, the cops sacrifice the one “bad apple” to placate the public. Not the left, but you on the Right, and in the Center.

As for me, I continue to believe that reform is needed at all levels of policing. From the lowliest two or three man departments to the largest and most powerful. City, County, State, and Federal. And I’ve thought so for more than two decades. One of those first reforms is true accountability.
Of course they will continue pursuit. Look at how much man power and effort gets thrown at any situation where an officer is shot or killed. It's an extraordinarily rare event that said suspect is not captured, or killed. Compare that to the legions of unsolved homicides across the country.
 

Godboy

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Of course they will continue pursuit. Look at how much man power and effort gets thrown at any situation where an officer is shot or killed. It's an extraordinarily rare event that said suspect is not captured, or killed. Compare that to the legions of unsolved homicides across the country.
Cops dont have a "no snitch" policy that makes it impossible to investigate murders. They also carry body cams, so its never a mystery about who they were killed by.
 
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SavannahMann

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These days their job is to avoid getting thrown in prison for doing their job.

So why are we paying them? Isn’t that a liberal answer? Pay people to not commit crimes?
 

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Sargent Troy Schwalm testified that Cameron Lamb's hand was empty when detective Eric Devalkenaere shot him.
In court Eric Devalkenaere didn't even have probable cause, or a warrant to enter property & go after Cameron Lamb.
That's totally different than the OP story of citizen calling police giving them probable cause. The police need to do their job & stop protesting by allowing crime to skyrocket & more citizens to die. Officers need to be fined or fired for refusing to do their job.
 

JoeB131

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I didn’t follow the case. I don’t know enough to say he got a raw deal, or not. From my limited understanding, it doesn’t sound as if he did. My objection is to the police throwing those who are caught under the bus, when they all do it, or could have.

The better known case is of course Derek Chauvin. I know more about that case, so I’ll use it as an example of my objections. Chauvin had nearly twenty complaints, a dozen or so upheld by investigation. In other words, he was a repeat offender of policy and the law. Yet he was never disciplined.

He got a slap on the wrist while being patted on the back. So the message he got, the lesson he learned was that breaking the rules was fine, the other cops wanted him to, if only unofficially, and that a good cop was going to get complaints and be slapped on the wrist.

Imagine how the Floyd case would have turned out if he had been disciplined early on. If his employment or even freedom had been threatened, or if they had terminated his employment years earlier. Perhaps Floyd would still be dead, perhaps from an overdose, perhaps from someone else’s actions. But Chauvin would not be in prison.

This is the pattern you see all too often. Cops congratulating those who break the rules, because they are “good cops” and the rules are bullshit. Then something tragic happens, and the lies are exposed. Then the “good cop” is thrown to the wolves to protect the others. I’ve said before, we could write the script about what is going to happen the next time something comes up. The next time a tragic situation develops. The cop in question was in the wrong, and does not reflect the rest of the officers who are shocked and humiliated by the criminal actions of the bad cop.

Take any of the recent stories and you’ll see the same pattern, but nothing changes. The cops don’t get more training, the supervisors don’t demand that the cops follow the rules anywhere but Hollywood for the cop TV shows, sometimes.

I like and hate NCIS as a show. I like the production and acting, and the people. But I hate it as a Cop show. Because every week Gibbs broke the law to get the baddie. And every week he was tolerated, and even encouraged to do so. By rights, Gibbs should be doing more time than everyone he’s arrested, combined.

If I object to anything, it’s the hypocrisy.

Because of the Jason Van Dyke case here in Chicago, I have not been on speaking terms with my brother for nearly six years because he was friends with van Dyke and I said things about the guy on line that he didn't like. So this kind of hits closer to home with me.

When I pointed out that Van Dyke, like Chauvin, had a 20 complaints for excessive force against him, my brother countered with "Well, that's because they just like to make complaints". You dig into the meat of the complaints, some of them WERE petty. Others, not so much. The case where he dislocated the shoulder of a suspect during a traffic stop SHOULD have been the end of it.

On the other hand, you have cases where the cops were vindicated by the investigations, but STILL didn't get their jobs back, like Eric Stillman in Chicago, who had a good record, but because the media constantly played the video of him shooting Adam Toledo with only the clip where he had his hands up, he was demonized. Even though Kim Foxx couldn't even make a case against him, he still hasn't gotten his job back and never will.

Or the cops who shot Breonna Taylor, who were found as justified by the State AG because her boyfriend shot at the cops first, but now the feds are going after them on civil rights charges because of minor disputes on the warrant.

I agree there should be more intervention on the problem officers early on, and frankly, I would love to get the PBA and FOP out of the disciplinary process. If police departments are unwilling to take action against the Van Dykes and Chauvins of the world, it's because the police unions make that such an undertaking.

Or you might see a case where Cops just decide they aren't going to confront criminals directly, because, hey, the minute you shoot one of them, they suddenly become an angelic choirboy.

Not sure if there are any good answers here.
 

Correll

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It’s important to put stories in context. So we should begin with the Trial and Conviction of Detective Eric DeValkenaere.

The man decided he didn’t want to be tried by a Jury of his Peers. He wanted the dispassionate consideration of the Law by a trained professional. A Judge. So former Detective DeValkenaere asked for a Bench Trial. The Prosecutor was undeterred, and agreed. The trial was held, the Judge found DeValkenaere guilty. There have been a couple threads on the boards. Go look them up. Now, with a Jury you can appeal to their emotions, but with a Judge, it’s all down to the facts, and the law.

The Judge ruled that there was no exigent circumstances, and the shooting was not justified. Right or wrong, I honestly don’t know.

What I do know is the reported response of the Kansas City Police to the Verdict. They are now refusing to enter private property without a warrant.


So according to the statement by the Police themselves, they just aren’t entering any private property without a warrant until the Verdict is overturned. I immediately suspected this policy only affects you the citizenry if you are committing a crime. But sooner or later, someone is going to test this. They’ll kill a cop, and flee through a private property. Anyone want to bet the Cops don’t break off pursuit when one of them is the victim of the baddie? Anyone want to bet they don’t just give up and go on back to the Station?

We’ll see, probably not in the distant future either.

Look. I’ve spoken many times about cops being sacrificed to the public opinion. It isn’t BLM that is the cause of the sacrifice, or ANTIFA, or any of those Left Wing Groups. It’s average Jack and Jill Citizen. The average person doesn’t want to believe that cops break the rules. The average citizen wants to believe that the cops are law abiding as well as law enforcing. But when a story comes out about a guy getting shot by the cops in questionable circumstances, the cops sacrifice the one “bad apple” to placate the public. Not the left, but you on the Right, and in the Center.

As for me, I continue to believe that reform is needed at all levels of policing. From the lowliest two or three man departments to the largest and most powerful. City, County, State, and Federal. And I’ve thought so for more than two decades. One of those first reforms is true accountability.


This guy Fox, he isn't making any a lot of sense. He clearly has an insanely low level opinion of hte police, from his concerns about how they would have treated him if he was "marginalized", and yet he called them when he felt threatened.

And what is with him owing a gun? Doesn't he want to fight "Gun Violence"?

Fox voted for this, when he voted for libs. Now the War on Cops is policy and he gets to enjoy the results.
 
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SavannahMann

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Dont pay them at all. Just defund them. Im sure everything will work out just fine.

Fox got his own gun to protect himself and his family. But your paid not to commit crime heroes showed up to intimidate him.
 

Correll

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Fox got his own gun to protect himself and his family. But your paid not to commit crime heroes showed up to intimidate him.


That is his spin on it. We are not sure that he is correct about their motives.
 

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