Contrary to wingnut claims, evolutionary theory does NOT...

[Youwerecreated]

Well, based on the fact that we share a 97% genetic commonality with Chimps, I know which way I'm leanin'.

This is where it gets tricky to believe this theory. Humans are made up of four billion cells ,now you figure 3 percent of those is the amount of mutations that would have to happen for a human to evolve from a chip. Humans go through 30 mutations over a lifetime another leap of faith for macro evolution .

How long did it take you to count the number of cells you are made of?

I didn't and I am trusting the scientist figures. It's your side producing these numbers not mine.

 

[pinqy]

Keep reading, the only things that are know to be able to be manipulated into evolving into two or more separate species are so foreign to how Mammals and such work as to be ignorant to claim they prove evolution as is.

Let's be clear...you are claiming that despite close physiology of groups of mammals, and the known ability of cross-breeding otherwise seperate species (especially with different number of chromosones), despite the fact that biologists predicted that the reason humans had a different number of chromosones than other apes was because of a fused pair, which has since been identified, that none of these are evidence for common ancestory?

I have to ask, what would you accept as evidence of common ancestory? Be as specific as possible.

Find a species that has evolved into 2 or more DIFFERENT species. We have had almost 200 years and no one has. Nor have they with the other types I listed.

Actually, it has been observed. While there are several examples of observed speciation the one addressing your particular question is the Faroe Islands mouse. They were common European domestic mice when they arrived on the islands, but are now two seperate species.

 

[sangha]

You are only partially right. Evolution WITHIN a species is pretty much a fact. They have compelling evidence that WITHIN a species evolution occurs.

However there is absolutely no evidence at all that one species of MAMMALS has EVER evolved into 2 or more different species.

Mammals? Sure

But I'm sure you know that evolution is not limited to MAMMALS

We are mammals. There is ABSOLUTELY NO evidence that a mammal species has ever evolved into 2 or more species. There for evolutionary theory is not PROVEN in regards to mammals.

Further I know of no evidence that insects have evolve4d into two or more species. No fish or sea life either. Are birds mammals, as far as I know there is zero evidence they have evolved from one species into 2 or more species.

Plants and virus do not operate like these other species.

I suspected that was what you're implying. And there is EVIDENCE, so you are wrong about that.

Cases of Speciation

 

[RetiredGySgt]

From your link.

Irish monks originally brought the house mouse to the Faeroe Islands, where it has quickly diverged in different species, or possibly sub-species, in less than 250 years. (Stanley,1979) (Image Source 2)

Observed Evolutionary Changes

So much for your claim.

 

[pinqy]

From your link.

Irish monks originally brought the house mouse to the Faeroe Islands, where it has quickly diverged in different species, or possibly sub-species, in less than 250 years. (Stanley,1979) (Image Source 2)

Observed Evolutionary Changes

So much for your claim.

No, that's so much for your claim that "there is zero evidence they have evolved from one species into 2 or more species" Faroe Islands mouse is evidence that a mammal species has evolved from one into two or more species.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

From your link.

Irish monks originally brought the house mouse to the Faeroe Islands, where it has quickly diverged in different species, or possibly sub-species, in less than 250 years. (Stanley,1979) (Image Source 2)

Observed Evolutionary Changes

So much for your claim.

No, that's so much for your claim that "there is zero evidence they have evolved from one species into 2 or more species" Faroe Islands mouse is evidence that a mammal species has evolved from one into two or more species.

No it is not. The statement is at best worthless. The mice on Faroe Island are still the same species.

 

[sangha]

From your link.



Observed Evolutionary Changes

So much for your claim.

No, that's so much for your claim that "there is zero evidence they have evolved from one species into 2 or more species" Faroe Islands mouse is evidence that a mammal species has evolved from one into two or more species.

No it is not. The statement is at best worthless. The mice on Faroe Island are still the same species.

Irish monks originally brought the house mouse to the Faeroe Islands, where it has quickly diverged in different species, or possibly sub-species, in less than 250 years.

In wingnut world, "different species" = "same species"

 

[Bern80]

Always an interesting topic. My curiosity is this.; we've al seen the evoution timeline pictograph that starts at monkey, slowly progresses into being more upright and eventually looks like a man. We'll stay it starts at B (yes I pickng B intentionally for sake for sake of this example) and ends at Z. And what we're being told here by some is that Z did NOT descend from B. Here's whats confusing. Assuming we agree on the end points as in the species that are around now, apes and human. And some common ancestory we theorized they both descent from, where is the evidence for the intermediary species between the common ancestor and homo sapiens that is NOT an ape? Wouldn't there have to be some other non-ape creature that still lived at the same time along side apes throughout history that man gradually descended from? Where is the evidence for these non-ape creatures?

 

[pinqy]

From your link.



Observed Evolutionary Changes

So much for your claim.

No, that's so much for your claim that "there is zero evidence they have evolved from one species into 2 or more species" Faroe Islands mouse is evidence that a mammal species has evolved from one into two or more species.

No it is not. The statement is at best worthless. The mice on Faroe Island are still the same species.

Wrong. The original mice were mus musculus domesticus, the current mice are mus musculus faroeensis and mus musculus muralis . They are clearly different from the house mouse, and from each other. Sub-species are not the same as the original species, or each other..Example: domestic dogs and dingoes (and 37 other varieties) are subspecies of canis lupus.

It's also possible the mice are fully seperate species...no studies have been done as far as I know. And it's only been a very very short time.

 

[pinqy]

Always an interesting topic. My curiosity is this.; we've al seen the evoution timeline pictograph that starts at monkey, slowly progresses into being more upright and eventually looks like a man. We'll stay it starts at B (yes I pickng B intentionally for sake for sake of this example) and ends at Z. And what we're being told here by some is that Z did NOT descend from B. Here's whats confusing. Assuming we agree on the end points as in the species that are around now, apes and human. And some common ancestory we theorized they both descent from, where is the evidence for the intermediary species between the common ancestor and homo sapiens that is NOT an ape? Wouldn't there have to be some other non-ape creature that still lived at the same time along side apes throughout history that man gradually descended from? Where is the evidence for these non-ape creatures?

Since humans ARE apes, I don't understand your question. How could there be non-ape creatures between humans and the ancestoral ape?

 

[sangha]

Wouldn't there have to be some other non-ape creature that still lived at the same time along side apes throughout history that man gradually descended from? Where is the evidence for these non-ape creatures?[/QUOTE]

Human evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Youwerecreated]

No, that's so much for your claim that "there is zero evidence they have evolved from one species into 2 or more species" Faroe Islands mouse is evidence that a mammal species has evolved from one into two or more species.

No it is not. The statement is at best worthless. The mice on Faroe Island are still the same species.

Irish monks originally brought the house mouse to the Faeroe Islands, where it has quickly diverged in different species, or possibly sub-species, in less than 250 years.

In wingnut world, "different species" = "same species"

Define a species ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

No, that's so much for your claim that "there is zero evidence they have evolved from one species into 2 or more species" Faroe Islands mouse is evidence that a mammal species has evolved from one into two or more species.

No it is not. The statement is at best worthless. The mice on Faroe Island are still the same species.

Wrong. The original mice were mus musculus domesticus, the current mice are mus musculus faroeensis and mus musculus muralis . They are clearly different from the house mouse, and from each other. Sub-species are not the same as the original species, or each other..Example: domestic dogs and dingoes (and 37 other varieties) are subspecies of canis lupus.

It's also possible the mice are fully seperate species...no studies have been done as far as I know. And it's only been a very very short time.

They are a product of cross breeding and they are still mice.

 

[sangha]

No it is not. The statement is at best worthless. The mice on Faroe Island are still the same species.

Irish monks originally brought the house mouse to the Faeroe Islands, where it has quickly diverged in different species, or possibly sub-species, in less than 250 years.

In wingnut world, "different species" = "same species"

Define a species ?

WIngnut doesn't know what the word species means!!!

 

[sangha]

No it is not. The statement is at best worthless. The mice on Faroe Island are still the same species.

Wrong. The original mice were mus musculus domesticus, the current mice are mus musculus faroeensis and mus musculus muralis . They are clearly different from the house mouse, and from each other. Sub-species are not the same as the original species, or each other..Example: domestic dogs and dingoes (and 37 other varieties) are subspecies of canis lupus.

It's also possible the mice are fully seperate species...no studies have been done as far as I know. And it's only been a very very short time.

They are a product of cross breeding and they are still mice.

Even the mice say so

 

[westwall]

Let's be clear...you are claiming that despite close physiology of groups of mammals, and the known ability of cross-breeding otherwise seperate species (especially with different number of chromosones), despite the fact that biologists predicted that the reason humans had a different number of chromosones than other apes was because of a fused pair, which has since been identified, that none of these are evidence for common ancestory?

I have to ask, what would you accept as evidence of common ancestory? Be as specific as possible.

Find a species that has evolved into 2 or more DIFFERENT species. We have had almost 200 years and no one has. Nor have they with the other types I listed.

Actually, it has been observed. While there are several examples of observed speciation the one addressing your particular question is the Faroe Islands mouse. They were common European domestic mice when they arrived on the islands, but are now two seperate species.

Thanks for that. I was aware of the speciation of the Larsus Seagull but the mouse I had not heard about. Good website too!

Thanks!

 

[Youwerecreated]

In wingnut world, "different species" = "same species"

Define a species ?

WIngnut doesn't know what the word species means!!!

Teach this wingnut . First sign of weakness of mind when one does not answer the question except with an insult

 

[manifold]

You can't teach a cat how to fly...


...no matter how many times you chuck it out a second story window.

 

[westwall]

Define a species ?

WIngnut doesn't know what the word species means!!!

Teach this wingnut . First sign of weakness of mind when one does not answer the question except with an insult

This is the basic biological definition of Species.

"The major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species."

 

[Youwerecreated]

WIngnut doesn't know what the word species means!!!

Teach this wingnut . First sign of weakness of mind when one does not answer the question except with an insult

This is the basic biological definition of Species.

"The major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species."

Thank you, a mule deer and whitetail deer can produce offspring. A horse and donkey can produce offspring. A lion and tiger can produce offspring. What do these groups of animals have in common ? Now how come there is so many different breeds of horses and dogs,is it because of evolution or cross breeding ?