Contradiction?

[MJDuncan1982]

Quick question brought up by Bill Maher recently.

Bush claims Kerry is two things:

The most liberal senator in the U.S. Senate and

Inconsistent.

These two statements, it doesn't seem, can both be true. If Kerry is the most liberal senator that means he is INCREDIBLY consistent.

Thoughts? Which one is it?

 

[Gem]

Its one of Bill Maher's favorite tricks...to say something that is easily understood, but sounds snappy so his audience will applaud loudly and he'll feel cool.

John Kerry has the most liberal voting record in Congres...he voted to slash intelligence spending after a terrorist attack on US soil....YET he claims that he will be tough on terrorism and will do everything possible to keep the US safe. THAT is what is inconsistent.

John Kerry said that Iraq posessed WMD and that anyone who felt that Saddam did not need to be removed should NOT vote for him. He said in the last debate that Saddam did not need to be removed and could have been dealt with differently. THAT is what is inconsistent.

John Kerry said that questioning his military record was an attack on his patriotism and honorable service since, despite controversy, the paperwork supported his side. Then he questioned Bush's patriotism and honorable service even though the paperwork was on Bush's side. THAT is what is inconsistent.

John Kerry stated on the floor of the Senate that Clinton's war record (dodged the draft, went to England and led protests against the US, etc) should be "off the record" and criticized people for saying that what he did was wrong. Kerry felt that Clinton's record of not fighting in Vietnam should not have been an issue. When running against Bush he did not follow the same sentiments...feeling that the fact that Bush served in the TX Air National Guard (not even the controversy about it...but that he was in the Guard rather than in Vietnam) was worth discussing since he, "like those who dodged the draft" didn't fight for their nation. THAT is what is inconsistent.

John Kerry did not demand 527's bashing Bush be taken off the air, he simply said he did not like them. He then publically criticized President Bush for not demanding that an ad criticizing Kerry be taken off the air. Kerry also publically demanded that Bush state that the information was false...even though a)he had never done that to the anti-Bush ads and b)Bush could not know if the testimony of the Swift Boats was true or false...and c) getting involved with the Swift Boat Vets in anyway would be collusion with them, and would be illegal. THAT is what is inconsistent.

John Kerry voted against every major military weapons system that we are using to fight in Iraq now, but claims frequently to support the troops and wants to give them what they need to win. THAT is what is inconsistent.

John Kerry stated on tv that a vote against the $87 billion dollars for our troops would be reckless and irresponsible. Then, he voted against the $87 billion dollars. THAT is what is inconsistent.

John Kerry stated on the campaign trail that marriage was between a man and woman, but that he felt that amending the Constitution was a horrible idea, legislating things that should not be legislated and that Bush was a right-wing-nut for suggesting it. He then did not show up to vote against the amendment. THAT is what is inconsistent.



Bill Maher's statement is typical...its like "No Blood for Oil," or "Bush lied, Kids Died." It sounds good...and looks nice on a protest sign. But when you actually THINK about it (which he counts on his audience not to do) you see that YES, Kerry has the most liberal voting record of ANY Senator...but he is trying to deny, hide, ignore, or downplay that record when he talks about keeping America safe...because: his actions in the past show that he talks a good game now, but voted in the opposite direction.

He IS the most liberal senator....and he is TELLING you he isn't going to be like that when he is President....THAT is inconsistent when you look at his record.

 

[krisy]

Bill Maher is a pain in the a$$!!!!

 

[MJDuncan1982]

The contradiction is apparently avoided by correctly qualifying the statements.

What Bush means is that he is liberal (consistent) in his Senate voting record yet inconsistent in a different arena (campaign). Without qualifiers the statement is a contradiction.

And I personally feel that Bill Maher is uniquely neutral. Ever watch his show? He repeatedly defends President Bush against unsubstantiated accusations. When Michael Moore was on Bill kept correcting him when he made wild claims. Tucker Carlson is a fan of his (recently on the show) and one of his best friends in (I'm yet to understand this) Ann Coulter.

The only issue Maher is obviously biased on is the environment and I'm with him no that. I'd be surprised to die actually believing the Republicans cared more than the Democrats.

 

[Flying Duck]

Quick question brought up by Bill Maher recently.

Bush claims Kerry is two things:

The most liberal senator in the U.S. Senate and

Inconsistent.

These two statements, it doesn't seem, can both be true. If Kerry is the most liberal senator that means he is INCREDIBLY consistent.

Thoughts? Which one is it?

FYI: Bill Maher is a comedian. You're taking a joke seriously. (This is probably the same reason you'll be voting for Kerry.)

 

[MJDuncan1982]

FYI: Bill Maher is a comedian. You're taking a joke seriously. (This is probably the same reason you'll be voting for Kerry.)

Yea a political comedian. Are you saying nothing he says is serious? He tries to make points on his show. Did you see the episode where he said that line?

It was not meant as a joke.

And what in the world does it mean to take a joke seriously and vote for Kerry?

 

[Mr. P]

And what in the world does it mean to take a joke seriously and vote for Kerry?

That is exactly what it means.

 

[MJDuncan1982]

Well since we're going to make statements without backing them up, I'll take a shot at it.

Voting for Bush is like taking a joke seriously.
:alco:

 

[Mr. P]

You can't play both sides..Pick One.

 

[Flying Duck]

Your inablility to recognize this as a glib one-liner is very sad.

You have now joined the ranks of the idiots who wanted Maher pulled off of the air for his comments calling our armed forces cowards for bombing the Taliban instead of fighting them one to one on the ground. This statement was a similar glib one-liner. (To me, the real issue was not whether Maher was actually calling our soldiers cowards but his overstepping the bounds of good taste given what was occuring at the time.)

Bill Maher is smart enough to know that neither of these one-liners is true when you get down to a serious discussion of the issue. Unfortunately, you are not. I suggest you stop watching Maher until your intellect matures a bit.

As has already been shown to you in this thread, Kerry is inconsistent AND liberal.

 

[Flying Duck]

And what in the world does it mean to take a joke seriously and vote for Kerry?

It implies that Kerry is a joke. Get it?

Man, you are PATHETIC. No wonder you think Bill Maher is serious.

 

[insein]

Quick question brought up by Bill Maher recently.

Bush claims Kerry is two things:

The most liberal senator in the U.S. Senate and

Inconsistent.

These two statements, it doesn't seem, can both be true. If Kerry is the most liberal senator that means he is INCREDIBLY consistent.

Thoughts? Which one is it?

So then why does he claim to be a moderate when his record shows him as being consistently liberal? I think this is where Bush claims he is inconsistent with his beliefs. He votes liberal then claims to be a moderate or conservative.

Not a contradiction at all.

 

[Gem]

Why does Kerry call Bush a member of the fringe "far right" but balk when someone called him a liberal and insists, as he did during the last debate, that he "doesn't like lablels?"

 

[MJDuncan1982]

Your inablility to recognize this as a glib one-liner is very sad.

You have now joined the ranks of the idiots who wanted Maher pulled off of the air for his comments calling our armed forces cowards for bombing the Taliban instead of fighting them one to one on the ground. This statement was a similar glib one-liner. (To me, the real issue was not whether Maher was actually calling our soldiers cowards but his overstepping the bounds of good taste given what was occuring at the time.)

Bill Maher is smart enough to know that neither of these one-liners is true when you get down to a serious discussion of the issue. Unfortunately, you are not. I suggest you stop watching Maher until your intellect matures a bit.

As has already been shown to you in this thread, Kerry is inconsistent AND liberal.

I thought Bill Maher being pulled off of ABC was ridiculous. It is obvious that he is a MIX of politics and comedy. Not everything he says is comedy - not everything he says is politics, oftentimes it is a combination.

Did you see the episode when he made that statement? I have it on tape and I've watched that episode two or three times. He was asking a serious question. It was not during his standup routine at the beginning of every show where what is said is usually comedy. He was using it to start a conversation with his panel.

And how do you know what I'm smart enough to do and not do. If you would read the posts before your personal attacks you would see that I offered an explanation for what was wrong with Maher's statement.

I've been watching Bill Maher for years and I think I'm plenty mature enough to both enjoy and understand his innuendo and intent.

And again, why is it so hard for people on this board to see the difference between asking about a generality and a specificity?

I never commented on whether or not he was a liberal (not a liberal) or was consistent (inconsistent). Read the first post and see that I was looking for deliberate, well thought out comments on the question which Maher raised. I received a few and personally commented on where I thought the error was.

"The mark of an educated man is his ability to entertain an idea without having to accept it"
-Aristotle

You say it has been shown that Kerry is liberal AND inconsistent. Wonderful! That was not the point of the post. I was merely desiring to discuss the implications of the comment made by Maher a.k.a. is it a plausible statement.

AND ONCE AGAIN...can we please refrain from the personal attacks. Discuss the merits of an argument or position, not the merits of the person espousing it.

 

[musicman]

MJ:

My problem is that you seem to imply that the terms, "liberal" and "inconsistent", cannot exist mutually and exclusively. The two do not cancel each other out. The fact that John Kerry is inconsistent does not make him any less liberal, any more than his liberalism negates his inconsistency.

 

[fubar]

Heres the short version: Kerry's wildly varying posistions on anything prove that You Still haven't Heard What he Believes. But you seem to be planning on voting for him?

Then there is reality : Kerry is the Most Liberal Senate in Office. But as you saw the other day, he wants to avoid "labels".

 

[Flying Duck]

MJ:

You did, in fact, state an opinion on this so please don't pretend otherwise.

From your initial post:

"If Kerry is the most liberal senator that means he is INCREDIBLY consistent."

These are YOUR words, not Bill Maher's, so please don't try to back away from them.

Later you indicated that you were sure Maher was serious.

Historically, Maher was a comedian who has moved to a role as "host" and not so much a comedian as a political satirist - thus focusing on coming up with little ironies such as the one you've posted to start this thread.

Personally, if pressed, I don't think Maher actually beleives what he said per se as much as he was engaging in politcal satire. I think you've blown the whole thing way out of proportion by even starting this thread. (Much like the broohaha about Maher's "cowards" comment.)

You're taking this WAY too seriously.

I'm sorry if my "personal attacks" offend you. It's hard for me to show much restraint when you apparently have put so much stock in a one-liner from Maher. But I've got to admit that I feel as though you're "begging" for such treatment by even starting such a thread. And when you didn't understand my little joke about voting for Kerry being the same as taking a joke seriously, that confirmed my doubts about intellectual depth. (That's my polite way of insulting you for even starting this thread.)

Don't put out a doormat if you don't want people to walk on it.

CONCLUSION: This thread is much ado about nothing.

 

[Freedom Lover]

Hope you read my post on There He Goes Again!! He could not even be consistent in one debate stating that Saddam was a threat and later saying Iraq was not a threat. I have posted the quotes so you can see what he said. If you don't believe me go to the transcripts that are posted on the web.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

The contradiction is apparently avoided by correctly qualifying the statements.

What Bush means is that he is liberal (consistent) in his Senate voting record yet inconsistent in a different arena (campaign). Without qualifiers the statement is a contradiction.

And I personally feel that Bill Maher is uniquely neutral. Ever watch his show? He repeatedly defends President Bush against unsubstantiated accusations. When Michael Moore was on Bill kept correcting him when he made wild claims. Tucker Carlson is a fan of his (recently on the show) and one of his best friends in (I'm yet to understand this) Ann Coulter.

The only issue Maher is obviously biased on is the environment and I'm with him no that. I'd be surprised to die actually believing the Republicans cared more than the Democrats.

Being fair is not being neutral. When interviewed by others, Maher has been very critical of President Bush and has shown a favoritism for Kerry. I can say the same things about Bill O'Reilly on the opposite side. He's fair on his show, but it's obvious who he favors.

There are some odd friendships out there. Al Franken is friends with not only Ben Stein but also G. Gordon Liddy (explain that one to me). I will admit, Maher and Coulter is probably the oddest I've heard yet.