Consider The Facts

[Phoenall]

Just as you do by refusing to recognise that the original palestinians were the Jews as neither the Christians or muslims had yet been invented. So you are no better than those you accuse of disenfranchising the new arrivals when you disenfranchise those who can show a 4,500 year occupancy of Palestine unbroken till the present day.

The "original" Palestinians were Greeks when you come right down to it. Who exactly am I "disenfranchising"? I'm not the one calling folks "colonists" or "squatters" or demanding mass expulsions. Try to keep your facts striaight.

So what are you doing when you harp on about the Palestinians saying they will expel all the Israeli's from Palestine.

Where am I harping on that? Israeli's can stay, presumably, but as Palestinian citizens not Israeli citizens.

Who gave the name to the greeks then as the Palestine of today is what the Romans called Judea and Samaria. The Greeks did not inhabit Palestine but Syria palestina and a coastal strip of land.

You are disenfranchising the Jews who have more legal rights to inhabit Jewish Palestine than the illegal Islamic immigrants that you support. The Jews have International law on their side, while the muslims have nothing but left wing Nazi support.

I'm not disenfranchising anyone. I totally support Israel's right to exist and the right of Israeli's to be there.

There are no "illegal Islamic immigrants" - check international law on that.

I have and the muslims are deemed to be illegal immigrants

By what law?

Try the mandate of Palestine and its findings over the years. Winston Churchill stood up in the house of commons and stated that the arabs had flooded into Palestine once the word went out that the Jews were to have their own homeland and the muslims would not be in control. Is that good enough for you the future Prime Minister of Britain declaring the arab illegal migration in parliament

 

[Phoenall]

So what are you doing when you harp on about the Palestinians saying they will expel all the Israeli's from Palestine.

Where am I harping on that? Israeli's can stay, presumably, but as Palestinian citizens not Israeli citizens.

Who gave the name to the greeks then as the Palestine of today is what the Romans called Judea and Samaria. The Greeks did not inhabit Palestine but Syria palestina and a coastal strip of land.

You are disenfranchising the Jews who have more legal rights to inhabit Jewish Palestine than the illegal Islamic immigrants that you support. The Jews have International law on their side, while the muslims have nothing but left wing Nazi support.

I'm not disenfranchising anyone. I totally support Israel's right to exist and the right of Israeli's to be there.

There are no "illegal Islamic immigrants" - check international law on that.

Even today, the PA is not just arresting those who sell land but their families as well. Those that sell land can be executed, without trial.
What do you think will happen to the jews who bought the land when the PA is in total control? How long do you expect them to keep breathing?
Arabs can buy land in Israel, in areas of private land, but jews can't buy land in the WB?

Actually - I've said, multiple times, that there is a difference between words and likely outcome. There is so much entrenched hate on both sides that it would be hard to guarantee safety and security - or for Jews to trust that guarantee. None of that changes what Abbas actually said which you keep distorting.

Arabs can buy some land. But they are prevented from living in Jewish only settlements aren't they?

Because that is the covenant on that land. Just as I cant park a van outside my house if it has a company name or logo on the sides. In other places an external TV antenna is not allowed, and I believe in the US housing projects ban the erection of boundary fences to the from of some properties..


What Abbas said mirrors what is in the Palestinian charter, that the only Jews/Israelis that would be allowed to live in a unified Palestine would be those born before the first Zionist set foot in Palestine. Why do you ignore the facts

People aren't vans.

In the US, It is illegal to discrimminate against religion, race, gender or ethnicity in housing.

So why are so many blacks homeless, and getting shot by your police ?

It is showing what a covenant on housing is, I read a case about a month ago where a Vet was evicted from his home for erecting a small antenna so he could operate his amateur radio transmitter because his housing project did not allow even a retractable antenna as found on many portable radios to be seen in the grounds of the project. He owned the property and paid for it outright and he was still evicted without force of law.



By the way Palestinians drive vans so the same covenant would apply to them because of the van.

 

[MJB12741]

The "original" Palestinians were Greeks when you come right down to it. Who exactly am I "disenfranchising"? I'm not the one calling folks "colonists" or "squatters" or demanding mass expulsions. Try to keep your facts striaight.

So what are you doing when you harp on about the Palestinians saying they will expel all the Israeli's from Palestine.

Where am I harping on that? Israeli's can stay, presumably, but as Palestinian citizens not Israeli citizens.

Who gave the name to the greeks then as the Palestine of today is what the Romans called Judea and Samaria. The Greeks did not inhabit Palestine but Syria palestina and a coastal strip of land.

You are disenfranchising the Jews who have more legal rights to inhabit Jewish Palestine than the illegal Islamic immigrants that you support. The Jews have International law on their side, while the muslims have nothing but left wing Nazi support.

I'm not disenfranchising anyone. I totally support Israel's right to exist and the right of Israeli's to be there.

There are no "illegal Islamic immigrants" - check international law on that.

I have and the muslims are deemed to be illegal immigrants

By what law?

Try the mandate of Palestine and its findings over the years. Winston Churchill stood up in the house of commons and stated that the arabs had flooded into Palestine once the word went out that the Jews were to have their own homeland and the muslims would not be in control. Is that good enough for you the future Prime Minister of Britain declaring the arab illegal migration in parliament

Paili's came pouring in by the thousands claiming it's their land as soon as Israel turned the wasteland into a thriving metropolis.

 

[Coyote]

The "original" Palestinians were Greeks when you come right down to it. Who exactly am I "disenfranchising"? I'm not the one calling folks "colonists" or "squatters" or demanding mass expulsions. Try to keep your facts striaight.

So what are you doing when you harp on about the Palestinians saying they will expel all the Israeli's from Palestine.

Where am I harping on that? Israeli's can stay, presumably, but as Palestinian citizens not Israeli citizens.

Who gave the name to the greeks then as the Palestine of today is what the Romans called Judea and Samaria. The Greeks did not inhabit Palestine but Syria palestina and a coastal strip of land.

You are disenfranchising the Jews who have more legal rights to inhabit Jewish Palestine than the illegal Islamic immigrants that you support. The Jews have International law on their side, while the muslims have nothing but left wing Nazi support.

I'm not disenfranchising anyone. I totally support Israel's right to exist and the right of Israeli's to be there.

There are no "illegal Islamic immigrants" - check international law on that.

I have and the muslims are deemed to be illegal immigrants

By what law?

Try the mandate of Palestine and its findings over the years. Winston Churchill stood up in the house of commons and stated that the arabs had flooded into Palestine once the word went out that the Jews were to have their own homeland and the muslims would not be in control. Is that good enough for you the future Prime Minister of Britain declaring the arab illegal migration in parliament

No. You aren't citing any law. What law "deems" them all "illegal immigrants"?

 

[Coyote]

Where am I harping on that? Israeli's can stay, presumably, but as Palestinian citizens not Israeli citizens.


I'm not disenfranchising anyone. I totally support Israel's right to exist and the right of Israeli's to be there.

There are no "illegal Islamic immigrants" - check international law on that.

Even today, the PA is not just arresting those who sell land but their families as well. Those that sell land can be executed, without trial.
What do you think will happen to the jews who bought the land when the PA is in total control? How long do you expect them to keep breathing?
Arabs can buy land in Israel, in areas of private land, but jews can't buy land in the WB?

Actually - I've said, multiple times, that there is a difference between words and likely outcome. There is so much entrenched hate on both sides that it would be hard to guarantee safety and security - or for Jews to trust that guarantee. None of that changes what Abbas actually said which you keep distorting.

Arabs can buy some land. But they are prevented from living in Jewish only settlements aren't they?

Because that is the covenant on that land. Just as I cant park a van outside my house if it has a company name or logo on the sides. In other places an external TV antenna is not allowed, and I believe in the US housing projects ban the erection of boundary fences to the from of some properties..


What Abbas said mirrors what is in the Palestinian charter, that the only Jews/Israelis that would be allowed to live in a unified Palestine would be those born before the first Zionist set foot in Palestine. Why do you ignore the facts

People aren't vans.

In the US, It is illegal to discrimminate against religion, race, gender or ethnicity in housing.

So why are so many blacks homeless, and getting shot by your police ?

It is showing what a covenant on housing is, I read a case about a month ago where a Vet was evicted from his home for erecting a small antenna so he could operate his amateur radio transmitter because his housing project did not allow even a retractable antenna as found on many portable radios to be seen in the grounds of the project. He owned the property and paid for it outright and he was still evicted without force of law.



By the way Palestinians drive vans so the same covenant would apply to them because of the van.

Human beings aren't retractable antennas either.

It's against US law to discrimminate in housing - you won't find any covenants saying "no blacks in this housing development".

 

[Indeependent]

Even today, the PA is not just arresting those who sell land but their families as well. Those that sell land can be executed, without trial.
What do you think will happen to the jews who bought the land when the PA is in total control? How long do you expect them to keep breathing?
Arabs can buy land in Israel, in areas of private land, but jews can't buy land in the WB?

Actually - I've said, multiple times, that there is a difference between words and likely outcome. There is so much entrenched hate on both sides that it would be hard to guarantee safety and security - or for Jews to trust that guarantee. None of that changes what Abbas actually said which you keep distorting.

Arabs can buy some land. But they are prevented from living in Jewish only settlements aren't they?

Because that is the covenant on that land. Just as I cant park a van outside my house if it has a company name or logo on the sides. In other places an external TV antenna is not allowed, and I believe in the US housing projects ban the erection of boundary fences to the from of some properties..


What Abbas said mirrors what is in the Palestinian charter, that the only Jews/Israelis that would be allowed to live in a unified Palestine would be those born before the first Zionist set foot in Palestine. Why do you ignore the facts

People aren't vans.

In the US, It is illegal to discrimminate against religion, race, gender or ethnicity in housing.

So why are so many blacks homeless, and getting shot by your police ?

It is showing what a covenant on housing is, I read a case about a month ago where a Vet was evicted from his home for erecting a small antenna so he could operate his amateur radio transmitter because his housing project did not allow even a retractable antenna as found on many portable radios to be seen in the grounds of the project. He owned the property and paid for it outright and he was still evicted without force of law.



By the way Palestinians drive vans so the same covenant would apply to them because of the van.

Human beings aren't retractable antennas either.

It's against US law to discrimminate in housing - you won't find any covenants saying "no blacks in this housing development".

NOBODY discriminates when it comes to housing!

 

[Coyote]

Actually - I've said, multiple times, that there is a difference between words and likely outcome. There is so much entrenched hate on both sides that it would be hard to guarantee safety and security - or for Jews to trust that guarantee. None of that changes what Abbas actually said which you keep distorting.

Arabs can buy some land. But they are prevented from living in Jewish only settlements aren't they?

Because that is the covenant on that land. Just as I cant park a van outside my house if it has a company name or logo on the sides. In other places an external TV antenna is not allowed, and I believe in the US housing projects ban the erection of boundary fences to the from of some properties..


What Abbas said mirrors what is in the Palestinian charter, that the only Jews/Israelis that would be allowed to live in a unified Palestine would be those born before the first Zionist set foot in Palestine. Why do you ignore the facts

People aren't vans.

In the US, It is illegal to discrimminate against religion, race, gender or ethnicity in housing.

So why are so many blacks homeless, and getting shot by your police ?

It is showing what a covenant on housing is, I read a case about a month ago where a Vet was evicted from his home for erecting a small antenna so he could operate his amateur radio transmitter because his housing project did not allow even a retractable antenna as found on many portable radios to be seen in the grounds of the project. He owned the property and paid for it outright and he was still evicted without force of law.



By the way Palestinians drive vans so the same covenant would apply to them because of the van.

Human beings aren't retractable antennas either.

It's against US law to discrimminate in housing - you won't find any covenants saying "no blacks in this housing development".

NOBODY discriminates when it comes to housing!

I don't think anyone claimed that

 

[aris2chat]

Lets put it in modern terms, if for some reason the US were to kick out all illegal and Mexico refused to take them but created refugee camps instead where they were told they were the true indigenous of the US for the next 70 years and they would only get their country back by killing all americans, would you feel the same about "right of return" to the US?

 

[Phoenall]

So what are you doing when you harp on about the Palestinians saying they will expel all the Israeli's from Palestine.

Where am I harping on that? Israeli's can stay, presumably, but as Palestinian citizens not Israeli citizens.

Who gave the name to the greeks then as the Palestine of today is what the Romans called Judea and Samaria. The Greeks did not inhabit Palestine but Syria palestina and a coastal strip of land.

You are disenfranchising the Jews who have more legal rights to inhabit Jewish Palestine than the illegal Islamic immigrants that you support. The Jews have International law on their side, while the muslims have nothing but left wing Nazi support.

I'm not disenfranchising anyone. I totally support Israel's right to exist and the right of Israeli's to be there.

There are no "illegal Islamic immigrants" - check international law on that.

I have and the muslims are deemed to be illegal immigrants

By what law?

Try the mandate of Palestine and its findings over the years. Winston Churchill stood up in the house of commons and stated that the arabs had flooded into Palestine once the word went out that the Jews were to have their own homeland and the muslims would not be in control. Is that good enough for you the future Prime Minister of Britain declaring the arab illegal migration in parliament

No. You aren't citing any law. What law "deems" them all "illegal immigrants"?

What law deems the Israelis to be illegal immigrants as well, or that they are illegal settlers. All you have for them is islamonazi propaganda that seems to take more jurisprudence than actual law

 

[Phoenall]

Even today, the PA is not just arresting those who sell land but their families as well. Those that sell land can be executed, without trial.
What do you think will happen to the jews who bought the land when the PA is in total control? How long do you expect them to keep breathing?
Arabs can buy land in Israel, in areas of private land, but jews can't buy land in the WB?

Actually - I've said, multiple times, that there is a difference between words and likely outcome. There is so much entrenched hate on both sides that it would be hard to guarantee safety and security - or for Jews to trust that guarantee. None of that changes what Abbas actually said which you keep distorting.

Arabs can buy some land. But they are prevented from living in Jewish only settlements aren't they?

Because that is the covenant on that land. Just as I cant park a van outside my house if it has a company name or logo on the sides. In other places an external TV antenna is not allowed, and I believe in the US housing projects ban the erection of boundary fences to the from of some properties..


What Abbas said mirrors what is in the Palestinian charter, that the only Jews/Israelis that would be allowed to live in a unified Palestine would be those born before the first Zionist set foot in Palestine. Why do you ignore the facts

People aren't vans.

In the US, It is illegal to discrimminate against religion, race, gender or ethnicity in housing.

So why are so many blacks homeless, and getting shot by your police ?

It is showing what a covenant on housing is, I read a case about a month ago where a Vet was evicted from his home for erecting a small antenna so he could operate his amateur radio transmitter because his housing project did not allow even a retractable antenna as found on many portable radios to be seen in the grounds of the project. He owned the property and paid for it outright and he was still evicted without force of law.



By the way Palestinians drive vans so the same covenant would apply to them because of the van.

Human beings aren't retractable antennas either.

It's against US law to discrimminate in housing - you won't find any covenants saying "no blacks in this housing development".

Are you sure as it is being shown that racism is alive and well in the states, and it might not be written down but it is still practised.

But you miss the point, or is that the extremely large grey elephant in the room, that even the US has problems with human rights and civil rights. But all you want to do is concentrate on Israeli breaches based on US laws when those laws have no jurisdiction outside of the US. You may have a license to carry a concealed weapon in your home town it does not mean that it applies if you come to Europe.

 

[Phoenall]

Because that is the covenant on that land. Just as I cant park a van outside my house if it has a company name or logo on the sides. In other places an external TV antenna is not allowed, and I believe in the US housing projects ban the erection of boundary fences to the from of some properties..


What Abbas said mirrors what is in the Palestinian charter, that the only Jews/Israelis that would be allowed to live in a unified Palestine would be those born before the first Zionist set foot in Palestine. Why do you ignore the facts

People aren't vans.

In the US, It is illegal to discrimminate against religion, race, gender or ethnicity in housing.

So why are so many blacks homeless, and getting shot by your police ?

It is showing what a covenant on housing is, I read a case about a month ago where a Vet was evicted from his home for erecting a small antenna so he could operate his amateur radio transmitter because his housing project did not allow even a retractable antenna as found on many portable radios to be seen in the grounds of the project. He owned the property and paid for it outright and he was still evicted without force of law.



By the way Palestinians drive vans so the same covenant would apply to them because of the van.

Human beings aren't retractable antennas either.

It's against US law to discrimminate in housing - you won't find any covenants saying "no blacks in this housing development".

NOBODY discriminates when it comes to housing!

I don't think anyone claimed that

You just did by saying the housing projects don't say no blacks, when it is common place

 

[aris2chat]

So what are you doing when you harp on about the Palestinians saying they will expel all the Israeli's from Palestine.

Where am I harping on that? Israeli's can stay, presumably, but as Palestinian citizens not Israeli citizens.

Who gave the name to the greeks then as the Palestine of today is what the Romans called Judea and Samaria. The Greeks did not inhabit Palestine but Syria palestina and a coastal strip of land.

You are disenfranchising the Jews who have more legal rights to inhabit Jewish Palestine than the illegal Islamic immigrants that you support. The Jews have International law on their side, while the muslims have nothing but left wing Nazi support.

I'm not disenfranchising anyone. I totally support Israel's right to exist and the right of Israeli's to be there.

There are no "illegal Islamic immigrants" - check international law on that.

Even today, the PA is not just arresting those who sell land but their families as well. Those that sell land can be executed, without trial.
What do you think will happen to the jews who bought the land when the PA is in total control? How long do you expect them to keep breathing?
Arabs can buy land in Israel, in areas of private land, but jews can't buy land in the WB?

Actually - I've said, multiple times, that there is a difference between words and likely outcome. There is so much entrenched hate on both sides that it would be hard to guarantee safety and security - or for Jews to trust that guarantee. None of that changes what Abbas actually said which you keep distorting.

Arabs can buy some land. But they are prevented from living in Jewish only settlements aren't they?

Because that is the covenant on that land. Just as I cant park a van outside my house if it has a company name or logo on the sides. In other places an external TV antenna is not allowed, and I believe in the US housing projects ban the erection of boundary fences to the from of some properties..


What Abbas said mirrors what is in the Palestinian charter, that the only Jews/Israelis that would be allowed to live in a unified Palestine would be those born before the first Zionist set foot in Palestine. Why do you ignore the facts

People aren't vans.

In the US, It is illegal to discrimminate against religion, race, gender or ethnicity in housing.

.....and yet many in the US still do
US is not the middle east or the world. Just because we are not supposed, can't wipe out the feeling of people so easily. We see that everyday on this forum.

Consider that many don't want crosses hung in a building or non-christians not wanting to be in homes near churches. Consider each groups has their own day off and are offended by businesses that are open on "their" particular sabbath. No parking on certain sides of the road for jews to park and not have to move their car on Saturdays. Parks closed to non-jews on Saturday in designated areas.
Old world orthodoxies and trying to accommodate so many faiths in conflict for such a small piece of land.

For some it is discrimination, for other accommodations, for others just keeping the peace.

No matter how clean (yes, I know they can be very clean) a pig is or how beloved a pet, muslims would call it discrimination to allow pigs or dog as pets in a building. Those with pet would call it discrimination to keep them out because of their pet.
A building with christians that cook pork and bacon would be inappropriate for jews and muslims to live in.
Buildings where alcohol is permitted would be inappropriate for muslims.
Nudists have their own buildings in many cities, but others would consider it "unclean" to improper for a building to be nudist and discriminatory for those who wear clothing inside.
There are subdivisions and building where sex offenders cannot live or neighborhoods they must avoid.
Sometimes separate building and neighborhoods are required. More an more there are smoke free buildings and homes and even allergy free homes being made. Special construction of those with disabilities or special needs. If the "right" space for special requirements are rare, is it fare for able-bodied to take those spaces away? Ethnic neighborhoods should be forcibly integrated? Half the homes and apartments in black neighborhoods should be sold to right whites to integrate? Stores with higher priced merchandise in lower income areas that the people can't afford should replace thrift stores and corner bodegas? Ethnic foods should open in areas where those ethnics groups don't live? Why are there zoning regulations and neighborhood standards?

Why should all building be open to the needs of muslims/palestinians and their specific requirements instead of for jews or christians?

 

[Coyote]

Where am I harping on that? Israeli's can stay, presumably, but as Palestinian citizens not Israeli citizens.


I'm not disenfranchising anyone. I totally support Israel's right to exist and the right of Israeli's to be there.

There are no "illegal Islamic immigrants" - check international law on that.

Even today, the PA is not just arresting those who sell land but their families as well. Those that sell land can be executed, without trial.
What do you think will happen to the jews who bought the land when the PA is in total control? How long do you expect them to keep breathing?
Arabs can buy land in Israel, in areas of private land, but jews can't buy land in the WB?

Actually - I've said, multiple times, that there is a difference between words and likely outcome. There is so much entrenched hate on both sides that it would be hard to guarantee safety and security - or for Jews to trust that guarantee. None of that changes what Abbas actually said which you keep distorting.

Arabs can buy some land. But they are prevented from living in Jewish only settlements aren't they?

Because that is the covenant on that land. Just as I cant park a van outside my house if it has a company name or logo on the sides. In other places an external TV antenna is not allowed, and I believe in the US housing projects ban the erection of boundary fences to the from of some properties..


What Abbas said mirrors what is in the Palestinian charter, that the only Jews/Israelis that would be allowed to live in a unified Palestine would be those born before the first Zionist set foot in Palestine. Why do you ignore the facts

People aren't vans.

In the US, It is illegal to discrimminate against religion, race, gender or ethnicity in housing.

.....and yet many in the US still do
US is not the middle east or the world. Just because we are not supposed, can't wipe out the feeling of people so easily. We see that everyday on this forum.

Consider that many don't want crosses hung in a building or non-christians not wanting to be in homes near churches. Consider each groups has their own day off and are offended by businesses that are open on "their" particular sabbath. No parking on certain sides of the road for jews to park and not have to move their car on Saturdays. Parks closed to non-jews on Saturday in designated areas.
Old world orthodoxies and trying to accommodate so many faiths in conflict for such a small piece of land.

For some it is discrimination, for other accommodations, for others just keeping the peace.

No matter how clean (yes, I know they can be very clean) a pig is or how beloved a pet, muslims would call it discrimination to allow pigs or dog as pets in a building. Those with pet would call it discrimination to keep them out because of their pet.
A building with christians that cook pork and bacon would be inappropriate for jews and muslims to live in.
Buildings where alcohol is permitted would be inappropriate for muslims.
Nudists have their own buildings in many cities, but others would consider it "unclean" to improper for a building to be nudist and discriminatory for those who wear clothing inside.
There are subdivisions and building where sex offenders cannot live or neighborhoods they must avoid.
Sometimes separate building and neighborhoods are required. More an more there are smoke free buildings and homes and even allergy free homes being made. Special construction of those with disabilities or special needs. If the "right" space for special requirements are rare, is it fare for able-bodied to take those spaces away? Ethnic neighborhoods should be forcibly integrated? Half the homes and apartments in black neighborhoods should be sold to right whites to integrate? Stores with higher priced merchandise in lower income areas that the people can't afford should replace thrift stores and corner bodegas? Ethnic foods should open in areas where those ethnics groups don't live? Why are there zoning regulations and neighborhood standards?

Why should all building be open to the needs of muslims/palestinians and their specific requirements instead of for jews or christians?

I understand what you you are saying, but - you criticize Palestinians for not wanting Jews living in their communities and then you turn around and say how it's ok for Jews to discrimminate against Palestinians?

You can't have it both ways.

 

[Coyote]

Lets put it in modern terms, if for some reason the US were to kick out all illegal and Mexico refused to take them but created refugee camps instead where they were told they were the true indigenous of the US for the next 70 years and they would only get their country back by killing all americans, would you feel the same about "right of return" to the US?

It's not comparable because those Mexicans were not indigninous to the area. The Palestinians - many of whom have roots going back over a thousand years, and even as long as the Jews - are.

A better comparison would be if the US were annex Sonora and decide to kick out the native Mexicans.

 

[Coyote]

Where am I harping on that? Israeli's can stay, presumably, but as Palestinian citizens not Israeli citizens.


I'm not disenfranchising anyone. I totally support Israel's right to exist and the right of Israeli's to be there.

There are no "illegal Islamic immigrants" - check international law on that.

I have and the muslims are deemed to be illegal immigrants

By what law?

Try the mandate of Palestine and its findings over the years. Winston Churchill stood up in the house of commons and stated that the arabs had flooded into Palestine once the word went out that the Jews were to have their own homeland and the muslims would not be in control. Is that good enough for you the future Prime Minister of Britain declaring the arab illegal migration in parliament

No. You aren't citing any law. What law "deems" them all "illegal immigrants"?

What law deems the Israelis to be illegal immigrants as well, or that they are illegal settlers. All you have for them is islamonazi propaganda that seems to take more jurisprudence than actual law

Two different things here.

First - who's claiming that Israeli's are illegal immigrants? I sure haven't. Nice strawman though.

Second - illegal settlers. That's based on international law in regards to how occupied territories are administered. Here's an "islamonazi propaganda" source for you: ICRC service

 

[Coyote]

Actually - I've said, multiple times, that there is a difference between words and likely outcome. There is so much entrenched hate on both sides that it would be hard to guarantee safety and security - or for Jews to trust that guarantee. None of that changes what Abbas actually said which you keep distorting.

Arabs can buy some land. But they are prevented from living in Jewish only settlements aren't they?

Because that is the covenant on that land. Just as I cant park a van outside my house if it has a company name or logo on the sides. In other places an external TV antenna is not allowed, and I believe in the US housing projects ban the erection of boundary fences to the from of some properties..


What Abbas said mirrors what is in the Palestinian charter, that the only Jews/Israelis that would be allowed to live in a unified Palestine would be those born before the first Zionist set foot in Palestine. Why do you ignore the facts

People aren't vans.

In the US, It is illegal to discrimminate against religion, race, gender or ethnicity in housing.

So why are so many blacks homeless, and getting shot by your police ?

It is showing what a covenant on housing is, I read a case about a month ago where a Vet was evicted from his home for erecting a small antenna so he could operate his amateur radio transmitter because his housing project did not allow even a retractable antenna as found on many portable radios to be seen in the grounds of the project. He owned the property and paid for it outright and he was still evicted without force of law.



By the way Palestinians drive vans so the same covenant would apply to them because of the van.

Human beings aren't retractable antennas either.

It's against US law to discrimminate in housing - you won't find any covenants saying "no blacks in this housing development".

Are you sure as it is being shown that racism is alive and well in the states, and it might not be written down but it is still practised.

No one is claiming racism is gone. But in terms of the law it's illegal to have housing denied on the basis of race and when it is done, they can sue.

But you miss the point, or is that the extremely large grey elephant in the room, that even the US has problems with human rights and civil rights. But all you want to do is concentrate on Israeli breaches based on US laws when those laws have no jurisdiction outside of the US. You may have a license to carry a concealed weapon in your home town it does not mean that it applies if you come to Europe.

You're simply deflecting. Of course the US has problems - like any other country. What does that have to do with the price of fish in Gaza? You complain about Palestinians not wanting Jews in their neighborhoods yet here you have the same thing going on in Israel where there are many Jewish only settlements and communities.

 

[Coyote]

People aren't vans.

In the US, It is illegal to discrimminate against religion, race, gender or ethnicity in housing.

So why are so many blacks homeless, and getting shot by your police ?

It is showing what a covenant on housing is, I read a case about a month ago where a Vet was evicted from his home for erecting a small antenna so he could operate his amateur radio transmitter because his housing project did not allow even a retractable antenna as found on many portable radios to be seen in the grounds of the project. He owned the property and paid for it outright and he was still evicted without force of law.



By the way Palestinians drive vans so the same covenant would apply to them because of the van.

Human beings aren't retractable antennas either.

It's against US law to discrimminate in housing - you won't find any covenants saying "no blacks in this housing development".

NOBODY discriminates when it comes to housing!

I don't think anyone claimed that

You just did by saying the housing projects don't say no blacks, when it is common place

No, I never said that. I said it was illegal. There are always going to be people who try to break the law.

 

[aris2chat]

Even today, the PA is not just arresting those who sell land but their families as well. Those that sell land can be executed, without trial.
What do you think will happen to the jews who bought the land when the PA is in total control? How long do you expect them to keep breathing?
Arabs can buy land in Israel, in areas of private land, but jews can't buy land in the WB?

Actually - I've said, multiple times, that there is a difference between words and likely outcome. There is so much entrenched hate on both sides that it would be hard to guarantee safety and security - or for Jews to trust that guarantee. None of that changes what Abbas actually said which you keep distorting.

Arabs can buy some land. But they are prevented from living in Jewish only settlements aren't they?

Because that is the covenant on that land. Just as I cant park a van outside my house if it has a company name or logo on the sides. In other places an external TV antenna is not allowed, and I believe in the US housing projects ban the erection of boundary fences to the from of some properties..


What Abbas said mirrors what is in the Palestinian charter, that the only Jews/Israelis that would be allowed to live in a unified Palestine would be those born before the first Zionist set foot in Palestine. Why do you ignore the facts

People aren't vans.

In the US, It is illegal to discrimminate against religion, race, gender or ethnicity in housing.

.....and yet many in the US still do
US is not the middle east or the world. Just because we are not supposed, can't wipe out the feeling of people so easily. We see that everyday on this forum.

Consider that many don't want crosses hung in a building or non-christians not wanting to be in homes near churches. Consider each groups has their own day off and are offended by businesses that are open on "their" particular sabbath. No parking on certain sides of the road for jews to park and not have to move their car on Saturdays. Parks closed to non-jews on Saturday in designated areas.
Old world orthodoxies and trying to accommodate so many faiths in conflict for such a small piece of land.

For some it is discrimination, for other accommodations, for others just keeping the peace.

No matter how clean (yes, I know they can be very clean) a pig is or how beloved a pet, muslims would call it discrimination to allow pigs or dog as pets in a building. Those with pet would call it discrimination to keep them out because of their pet.
A building with christians that cook pork and bacon would be inappropriate for jews and muslims to live in.
Buildings where alcohol is permitted would be inappropriate for muslims.
Nudists have their own buildings in many cities, but others would consider it "unclean" to improper for a building to be nudist and discriminatory for those who wear clothing inside.
There are subdivisions and building where sex offenders cannot live or neighborhoods they must avoid.
Sometimes separate building and neighborhoods are required. More an more there are smoke free buildings and homes and even allergy free homes being made. Special construction of those with disabilities or special needs. If the "right" space for special requirements are rare, is it fare for able-bodied to take those spaces away? Ethnic neighborhoods should be forcibly integrated? Half the homes and apartments in black neighborhoods should be sold to right whites to integrate? Stores with higher priced merchandise in lower income areas that the people can't afford should replace thrift stores and corner bodegas? Ethnic foods should open in areas where those ethnics groups don't live? Why are there zoning regulations and neighborhood standards?

Why should all building be open to the needs of muslims/palestinians and their specific requirements instead of for jews or christians?

I understand what you you are saying, but - you criticize Palestinians for not wanting Jews living in their communities and then you turn around and say how it's ok for Jews to discrimminate against Palestinians?

You can't have it both ways.

There are enough building that each can have their own particular space. They don't all have to be in the same building or the same exact neighborhood to get along.

Israel is building for everyone. Palestinians are building for muslim only, where christians are finding it harder to stay and live in the WB. More and more christians are being forced out with no other place to go within the PA.
In Israel there are arab towns and bedouin town close to larger towns that are mixed. Some ethnic groups prefer to be among their own. Some muslims prefer not to live with jews and christians, especially where holy days and holidays are in conflict.

Israel allows for separation, it does no demand it if people are willing to abide by rules. In Israel it is a way of avoiding conflict. Other countries have minority communities and special areas for outsider workers. There are towns across the world that are more friendly to foreigners and some very closed and provincial that distrust outsiders.

In the US Mormons, Mennonites and Amish don't generally mix with the "english" if they can avoid it. There are areas where there is no electric, phones for cars. Some areas are more Catholic, some more Protestant where people can choose to live. Some more asian and some more italian. There are areas where no one even speaks english in the US. It was no all by design but where people could be closer to their own kind, with others they have a heritage in common. Why if there is any separation in Israel is it discrimination or apartheid? Why can't orthodox or muslims just prefer to be living near their own for practical reason?

 

[Boston1]

I have and the muslims are deemed to be illegal immigrants

By what law?

Try the mandate of Palestine and its findings over the years. Winston Churchill stood up in the house of commons and stated that the arabs had flooded into Palestine once the word went out that the Jews were to have their own homeland and the muslims would not be in control. Is that good enough for you the future Prime Minister of Britain declaring the arab illegal migration in parliament

No. You aren't citing any law. What law "deems" them all "illegal immigrants"?

What law deems the Israelis to be illegal immigrants as well, or that they are illegal settlers. All you have for them is islamonazi propaganda that seems to take more jurisprudence than actual law

Two different things here.

First - who's claiming that Israeli's are illegal immigrants? I sure haven't. Nice strawman though.

Second - illegal settlers. That's based on international law in regards to how occupied territories are administered. Here's an "islamonazi propaganda" source for you: ICRC service

The problem with all these arguments is that Israel isn't an occupying power. Until that issue is settled then the articles you present don't apply.

Another problem is that the Israeli government hasn't forced any movement of its own population. The people who live in the disputed territories do so voluntarily.

There's enough holes in the argument against Israel using land intended for the establishment of a national Jewish homeland to establish that state that there's really no end to the particulars of suggesting there is an occupation.


Quote

With regard to Israel's legal status in the West Bank, the Levy Committee declared that Israel is not an occupying power. The panel arrived at that conclusion after considering two conflicting legal approaches on the question.


The first approach, presented by elements generally identified with the left, holds that Judea and Samaria are "occupied territories" under international law, ever since they were captured from the Jordanian kingdom in 1967.


(...)


Members of the panel accepted the legal opinion presented by the right. They explained that the generally accepted concept of occupation relates to short periods in which territory is capture from a sovereign state until the dispute between the two sides is resolved. But Judea and Samaria have been under Israeli control for decades, and it is impossible to foresee a time when Israel will relinquish these territories, if ever.

End Quote

 

[aris2chat]

Lets put it in modern terms, if for some reason the US were to kick out all illegal and Mexico refused to take them but created refugee camps instead where they were told they were the true indigenous of the US for the next 70 years and they would only get their country back by killing all americans, would you feel the same about "right of return" to the US?

It's not comparable because those Mexicans were not indigninous to the area. The Palestinians - many of whom have roots going back over a thousand years, and even as long as the Jews - are.

A better comparison would be if the US were annex Sonora and decide to kick out the native Mexicans.

Mexican's believe they are indigenous in the west, especially the south west. French speaking americans are indigenous to Louisiana. There are chinese communities that have been in the states as long as whites christians.

Even in the middle east you will find the kurds, sunni, shiites, druze, zoroastrians and others living among their own. Why do most languages live in their own neighborhoods or have their own countries? Maybe vegetarians prefer to living in areas with fewer meat restaurants and stores. Why do most Buddhists live near temples and not churches, and more asian grocers and asian medicine in those areas? Why so few butchers in hindu neighborhoods?

Why is it only prejudice if it involves jews or Israel but not other cultures or countries around the world? Why must Israel take the palestinian refugees when other nations would execute them if they tried to return? Why is it ok for palestinians to retain their "identity" but for kurds and armeneans it could mean persecution or death?

if iraq had equal representation in government for kurds, sunni and shiites, do you thing the government would have fallen apart so quickly? US is made of 50 states so why shouldn't there be a three state iraq, each with their own states government, but that share equal in how the country is ruled?

Why must kurds be wiped out in turkey instead of having their own safe zone or their own semi autonomous state within turkey?

Melting pot does not mean you can't find the carrots from the onion, just that the flavor enhance the whole. When you serve dinner, you don't have to serve a stew or skillet dish, sometimes you proportion the meat, vegetables and starch on a plate side by side, not pureed in a blender.