Consider The Facts

[Phoenall]

Whether they like it or not, Israel is there to stay. For over 3000 years empires rose & empires fell, yet Israel still remained despite Israel's enemies preaching Israel's doom. And 3000 years from now Israel will still remain despite Israel's enemies preaching Israel's doom.

Israel ceased to exist thousands of years ago. It was recreated, as a modern state, only recently.

Is it hear to stay? Sure. But don't pretend it remained (can't find it on any old maps).

and the US only began it's "existence" a couple hundred years ago. The jewish people, as a national identity and religion never ceased to exist, not did they totally leave their ancient heritage land.

They were invited by the Ottoman and promised by the LoN and the UN their land as a state for jews.
Palestine was a later thought and never existed as a state before. Most of the middle east and the british empire became states without real historic basis.
World have seen changing and rehanging is the dawn of time.

That is the point I was making. It's inaccurate to say Israel has existed all this time. It hasn't. The people have. Just like the Palestinian people have even if they did not go by that name.

What I have to ask, when people make these arguments - is why is this argument so important? The only reason I can see is this. One side wants to disenfranchise the Jews of their rights. The other side wants to disenfranchise the Palestinians of their rights.

The fact of the matter is they both have rights to be there so how are we going to deal with it? With continual nonsensical arguments about who is or isn't indiginous, who is or isn't an "invader" or "squatter" - who is or isn't a "real people" - and all the old genetic crap?

Just as you do by refusing to recognise that the original palestinians were the Jews as neither the Christians or muslims had yet been invented. So you are no better than those you accuse of disenfranchising the new arrivals when you disenfranchise those who can show a 4,500 year occupancy of Palestine unbroken till the present day.

The "original" Palestinians were Greeks when you come right down to it. Who exactly am I "disenfranchising"? I'm not the one calling folks "colonists" or "squatters" or demanding mass expulsions. Try to keep your facts striaight.

So what are you doing when you harp on about the Palestinians saying they will expel all the Israeli's from Palestine.

Who gave the name to the greeks then as the Palestine of today is what the Romans called Judea and Samaria. The Greeks did not inhabit Palestine but Syria palestina and a coastal strip of land.

You are disenfranchising the Jews who have more legal rights to inhabit Jewish Palestine than the illegal Islamic immigrants that you support. The Jews have International law on their side, while the muslims have nothing but left wing Nazi support.

 

[Coyote]

Israel ceased to exist thousands of years ago. It was recreated, as a modern state, only recently.

Is it hear to stay? Sure. But don't pretend it remained (can't find it on any old maps).

and the US only began it's "existence" a couple hundred years ago. The jewish people, as a national identity and religion never ceased to exist, not did they totally leave their ancient heritage land.

They were invited by the Ottoman and promised by the LoN and the UN their land as a state for jews.
Palestine was a later thought and never existed as a state before. Most of the middle east and the british empire became states without real historic basis.
World have seen changing and rehanging is the dawn of time.

That is the point I was making. It's inaccurate to say Israel has existed all this time. It hasn't. The people have. Just like the Palestinian people have even if they did not go by that name.

What I have to ask, when people make these arguments - is why is this argument so important? The only reason I can see is this. One side wants to disenfranchise the Jews of their rights. The other side wants to disenfranchise the Palestinians of their rights.

The fact of the matter is they both have rights to be there so how are we going to deal with it? With continual nonsensical arguments about who is or isn't indiginous, who is or isn't an "invader" or "squatter" - who is or isn't a "real people" - and all the old genetic crap?

Just as you do by refusing to recognise that the original palestinians were the Jews as neither the Christians or muslims had yet been invented. So you are no better than those you accuse of disenfranchising the new arrivals when you disenfranchise those who can show a 4,500 year occupancy of Palestine unbroken till the present day.

The "original" Palestinians were Greeks when you come right down to it. Who exactly am I "disenfranchising"? I'm not the one calling folks "colonists" or "squatters" or demanding mass expulsions. Try to keep your facts striaight.

So what are you doing when you harp on about the Palestinians saying they will expel all the Israeli's from Palestine.

Where am I harping on that? Israeli's can stay, presumably, but as Palestinian citizens not Israeli citizens.

Who gave the name to the greeks then as the Palestine of today is what the Romans called Judea and Samaria. The Greeks did not inhabit Palestine but Syria palestina and a coastal strip of land.

You are disenfranchising the Jews who have more legal rights to inhabit Jewish Palestine than the illegal Islamic immigrants that you support. The Jews have International law on their side, while the muslims have nothing but left wing Nazi support.

I'm not disenfranchising anyone. I totally support Israel's right to exist and the right of Israeli's to be there.

There are no "illegal Islamic immigrants" - check international law on that.

 

[aris2chat]

and the US only began it's "existence" a couple hundred years ago. The jewish people, as a national identity and religion never ceased to exist, not did they totally leave their ancient heritage land.

They were invited by the Ottoman and promised by the LoN and the UN their land as a state for jews.
Palestine was a later thought and never existed as a state before. Most of the middle east and the british empire became states without real historic basis.
World have seen changing and rehanging is the dawn of time.

That is the point I was making. It's inaccurate to say Israel has existed all this time. It hasn't. The people have. Just like the Palestinian people have even if they did not go by that name.

What I have to ask, when people make these arguments - is why is this argument so important? The only reason I can see is this. One side wants to disenfranchise the Jews of their rights. The other side wants to disenfranchise the Palestinians of their rights.

The fact of the matter is they both have rights to be there so how are we going to deal with it? With continual nonsensical arguments about who is or isn't indiginous, who is or isn't an "invader" or "squatter" - who is or isn't a "real people" - and all the old genetic crap?

Just as you do by refusing to recognise that the original palestinians were the Jews as neither the Christians or muslims had yet been invented. So you are no better than those you accuse of disenfranchising the new arrivals when you disenfranchise those who can show a 4,500 year occupancy of Palestine unbroken till the present day.

The "original" Palestinians were Greeks when you come right down to it. Who exactly am I "disenfranchising"? I'm not the one calling folks "colonists" or "squatters" or demanding mass expulsions. Try to keep your facts striaight.

So what are you doing when you harp on about the Palestinians saying they will expel all the Israeli's from Palestine.

Where am I harping on that? Israeli's can stay, presumably, but as Palestinian citizens not Israeli citizens.

Who gave the name to the greeks then as the Palestine of today is what the Romans called Judea and Samaria. The Greeks did not inhabit Palestine but Syria palestina and a coastal strip of land.

You are disenfranchising the Jews who have more legal rights to inhabit Jewish Palestine than the illegal Islamic immigrants that you support. The Jews have International law on their side, while the muslims have nothing but left wing Nazi support.

I'm not disenfranchising anyone. I totally support Israel's right to exist and the right of Israeli's to be there.

There are no "illegal Islamic immigrants" - check international law on that.

Even today, the PA is not just arresting those who sell land but their families as well. Those that sell land can be executed, without trial.
What do you think will happen to the jews who bought the land when the PA is in total control? How long do you expect them to keep breathing?
Arabs can buy land in Israel, in areas of private land, but jews can't buy land in the WB?

 

[Coyote]

That is the point I was making. It's inaccurate to say Israel has existed all this time. It hasn't. The people have. Just like the Palestinian people have even if they did not go by that name.

What I have to ask, when people make these arguments - is why is this argument so important? The only reason I can see is this. One side wants to disenfranchise the Jews of their rights. The other side wants to disenfranchise the Palestinians of their rights.

The fact of the matter is they both have rights to be there so how are we going to deal with it? With continual nonsensical arguments about who is or isn't indiginous, who is or isn't an "invader" or "squatter" - who is or isn't a "real people" - and all the old genetic crap?

Just as you do by refusing to recognise that the original palestinians were the Jews as neither the Christians or muslims had yet been invented. So you are no better than those you accuse of disenfranchising the new arrivals when you disenfranchise those who can show a 4,500 year occupancy of Palestine unbroken till the present day.

The "original" Palestinians were Greeks when you come right down to it. Who exactly am I "disenfranchising"? I'm not the one calling folks "colonists" or "squatters" or demanding mass expulsions. Try to keep your facts striaight.

So what are you doing when you harp on about the Palestinians saying they will expel all the Israeli's from Palestine.

Where am I harping on that? Israeli's can stay, presumably, but as Palestinian citizens not Israeli citizens.

Who gave the name to the greeks then as the Palestine of today is what the Romans called Judea and Samaria. The Greeks did not inhabit Palestine but Syria palestina and a coastal strip of land.

You are disenfranchising the Jews who have more legal rights to inhabit Jewish Palestine than the illegal Islamic immigrants that you support. The Jews have International law on their side, while the muslims have nothing but left wing Nazi support.

I'm not disenfranchising anyone. I totally support Israel's right to exist and the right of Israeli's to be there.

There are no "illegal Islamic immigrants" - check international law on that.

Even today, the PA is not just arresting those who sell land but their families as well. Those that sell land can be executed, without trial.
What do you think will happen to the jews who bought the land when the PA is in total control? How long do you expect them to keep breathing?
Arabs can buy land in Israel, in areas of private land, but jews can't buy land in the WB?

Actually - I've said, multiple times, that there is a difference between words and likely outcome. There is so much entrenched hate on both sides that it would be hard to guarantee safety and security - or for Jews to trust that guarantee. None of that changes what Abbas actually said which you keep distorting.

Arabs can buy some land. But they are prevented from living in Jewish only settlements aren't they?

 

[Boston1]

The false equivalency is genuinely amazing

 

[Coyote]

The false equivalency is genuinely amazing

What "false equivalency" is that?

 

[Boston1]

You seem to think that the Judaic response to Arab aggression can be held up to the same candle as the Arab aggression.

One is a purely defensive action ( that would be the Israeli actions )
The other, blatant racism with some genocidal intentions thrown in ( that would be the palestinians sending their teenagers out to stab pregnant Israeli woman )

Comparing an Israeli community that has for its own protection banned enemy combatants from its midst to the enemy who kills its own should they ever sell land to the Israeli's is disingenuous at best

 

[Coyote]

You seem to think that the Judaic response to Arab aggression can be held up to the same candle as the Arab aggression.

What do you mean "Judaic"? I'm talking about Israel - a sovereign state, and it's actions. I'm not sure exactly what you mean here or how it relates to what I posted but not all Israel's actions are "defensive" or moral. You have to look at it in a case by case basis and in all those cases it's not "Judaic" or "Arab" - it's a state or a terrorist or, if you are talking about prior wars - other states.

One is a purely defensive action ( that would be the Israeli actions )

Depends on the particular action.

The other, blatant racism with some genocidal intentions thrown in ( that would be the palestinians sending their teenagers out to stab pregnant Israeli woman )

Throwing in the race card does nothing more than demean the entire debate - wa wa wa it's racism!

Comparing an Israeli community that has for its own protection banned enemy combatants from its midst to the enemy who kills its own should they ever sell land to the Israeli's is disingenuous at best

That wasn't even what I was talking about. I'm talking about the kind of segregation like we used to have - you know, "white only" communities.

 

[Boston1]

Looks like it was exactly what you were talking about

Quote

Arabs can buy some land. But they are prevented from living in Jewish only settlements aren't they?

End Quote

The Judaic people were the first peoples of, well Judea. They can be traced back to the stone age and represent the indigenous population.

Today they are known as the Israeli's however, there appears some confusion over some of them having returned to the Canaan area after a brief sojourn abroad. So I think it might help clear up some misconceptions if we just refer to the native people here as Judaic and the colonists as Arab Muslims. I hope that helps LMAO ;--)

The race card is more than applicable given the stated goal of the Arabs to wash in Judaic blood and throw every last "Jew" into the sea.

The issue of false equivalence is common in the revisionist narrative. Which relies heavily on blatant lies and misrepresentations. Kinda like equating the Israeli's defensive actions regarding palestinians to the horrendous acts of violence by the palestinians.

 

[aris2chat]

Just as you do by refusing to recognise that the original palestinians were the Jews as neither the Christians or muslims had yet been invented. So you are no better than those you accuse of disenfranchising the new arrivals when you disenfranchise those who can show a 4,500 year occupancy of Palestine unbroken till the present day.

The "original" Palestinians were Greeks when you come right down to it. Who exactly am I "disenfranchising"? I'm not the one calling folks "colonists" or "squatters" or demanding mass expulsions. Try to keep your facts striaight.

So what are you doing when you harp on about the Palestinians saying they will expel all the Israeli's from Palestine.

Where am I harping on that? Israeli's can stay, presumably, but as Palestinian citizens not Israeli citizens.

Who gave the name to the greeks then as the Palestine of today is what the Romans called Judea and Samaria. The Greeks did not inhabit Palestine but Syria palestina and a coastal strip of land.

You are disenfranchising the Jews who have more legal rights to inhabit Jewish Palestine than the illegal Islamic immigrants that you support. The Jews have International law on their side, while the muslims have nothing but left wing Nazi support.

I'm not disenfranchising anyone. I totally support Israel's right to exist and the right of Israeli's to be there.

There are no "illegal Islamic immigrants" - check international law on that.

Even today, the PA is not just arresting those who sell land but their families as well. Those that sell land can be executed, without trial.
What do you think will happen to the jews who bought the land when the PA is in total control? How long do you expect them to keep breathing?
Arabs can buy land in Israel, in areas of private land, but jews can't buy land in the WB?

Actually - I've said, multiple times, that there is a difference between words and likely outcome. There is so much entrenched hate on both sides that it would be hard to guarantee safety and security - or for Jews to trust that guarantee. None of that changes what Abbas actually said which you keep distorting.

Arabs can buy some land. But they are prevented from living in Jewish only settlements aren't they?

Not many, but there are some arab Israelis in the settlements, they are not strictly jewish only.
Palestinians work in and around the settlements, at Israeli pay scale, but palestinians do not live in the settlements that I could find. There are palestinian villages near by.

In the new housing in East Jerusalem is not strictly jewish but has thousands of Israeli arabs moving in as well. Many of the buildings torn down were without permits and substandard, or on land without deed that were illegally occupied by palestinians.

There is no flat excuse either way, but each lot(s) have to be examined on their own for deed, permits, etc., just as they are not totally jewish housing in all cases. There are some neighborhoods or buildings for Orthodox that were built to meet certain standards when planned, such as kitches with double sets of cabinets or room for two refrigerators or special safety circuit breakers, fire retardants, sprinklers or timers built in for sabbath requirements. I know there are special building codes, but not sure what they all are. There is also widening of roads, infrastructure, social services, special access on sabbaths, special parks and schools, public transport, etc., that are all part of the planning. Not sure what the zone limits are, but many orthodox building neighborhoods are also radio/TV/phone/car free on sabbaths. Restriction non-orthodox would be unwilling to live by.

Just as different neighborhood association have their own rules, different settlements and building units would be designed specific to the needs of certain groups. If others are willing to abide by the rules, they can apply to rent or own a unit there.

 

[Coyote]

Looks like it was exactly what you were talking about

Quote

Arabs can buy some land. But they are prevented from living in Jewish only settlements aren't they?

End Quote

The Judaic people were the first peoples of, well Judea. They can be traced back to the stone age and represent the indigenous population.

Today they are known as the Israeli's however, there appears some confusion over some of them having returned to the Canaan area after a brief sojourn abroad. So I think it might help clear up some misconceptions if we just refer to the native people here as Judaic and the colonists as Arab Muslims. I hope that helps LMAO ;--)

The race card is more than applicable given the stated goal of the Arabs to wash in Judaic blood and throw every last "Jew" into the sea.

The issue of false equivalence is common in the revisionist narrative. Which relies heavily on blatant lies and misrepresentations. Kinda like equating the Israeli's defensive actions regarding palestinians to the horrendous acts of violence by the palestinians.

Israel is a modern nation. The indiginous population consists of many religious identities. What we call Israeli's today may or may not have links to this "stone age" population. What IS known is, genetically, Israeli's and Palestinians are close cousins. Thousands of years does not constitute a "brief" sojurn

There are no Arab colonists. (are you yanking my chain?)

The race card diminishes what is a valid struggle of the Palestinian people for a state - whether or not you agree with it. One can also toss the race card into the Israeli camp and the inquities in the justice system, permit system for new construction, right down to Netanyahu's own words about "Arab Israeli's".

 

[Boston1]

I think you're getting awfully cavalier with your use of the term indigenous. Israel is a modern nation, made up predominantly of indigenous people, because the majority of people are Judaic. A ethnic group which is monotheistic. who's culture developed in the Canaan area. Unlike the Arab Muslims who developed in the Arabian peninsula area roughly 4500 years later.

Who, not what, we call Israelis today most certainly have links to the protojudaic Hyksos, through an examination of archeological evidence, Its virtually irrefutable.

From a genetic stand point very little can be proven. we could follow certain haplotypes and discover we are all chimps. but does that mean we should demand a homeland for chimps in Meca ? The genetic issue is wildly complex and I'm not particularly qualified to discern if a given marker is accurately depicting heritage or hair color. In which case I can't really argue it one way or another.

In terms of Arab colonists I'm sorta yanking your chain. Actually Monty's. That joyous little moment of confusion kept insisting the Israeli's were European colonists, so I've been having some fun with his use of the term and have been applying it to the Arab Muslims who entered the area of Judea in the 7th to 9th centuries CE because it applies more accurately.

Do I really think the Arab Muslims who might have entered Judea in this period deserve to be called colonists today. LOL ( looks around and says in a hushed tone ) no more than the Judaic people who returned to Judea after their European exile do, but don't tell Monty that ;--)

The racist call I believe is valid. What diminishes the Arab Muslim call for land is their refusal to act in a civilized manor.

The failure of the Arab Muslims to respect the social contract is legendary. What diminishes any credibility of Arab Muslim claims in Israel is stabbing pregnant woman in the streets and murdering mothers defending their children.

PS
That last was a spectacular example of a false equivalency

 

[MJB12741]

Whatever israel does or doesn't do the Palestinians ***** about Israel. Do you think maybe the Palestinians would do better to clean up their own acts & ***** about their own problems to help their own people?

 

[Phoenall]

and the US only began it's "existence" a couple hundred years ago. The jewish people, as a national identity and religion never ceased to exist, not did they totally leave their ancient heritage land.

They were invited by the Ottoman and promised by the LoN and the UN their land as a state for jews.
Palestine was a later thought and never existed as a state before. Most of the middle east and the british empire became states without real historic basis.
World have seen changing and rehanging is the dawn of time.

That is the point I was making. It's inaccurate to say Israel has existed all this time. It hasn't. The people have. Just like the Palestinian people have even if they did not go by that name.

What I have to ask, when people make these arguments - is why is this argument so important? The only reason I can see is this. One side wants to disenfranchise the Jews of their rights. The other side wants to disenfranchise the Palestinians of their rights.

The fact of the matter is they both have rights to be there so how are we going to deal with it? With continual nonsensical arguments about who is or isn't indiginous, who is or isn't an "invader" or "squatter" - who is or isn't a "real people" - and all the old genetic crap?

Just as you do by refusing to recognise that the original palestinians were the Jews as neither the Christians or muslims had yet been invented. So you are no better than those you accuse of disenfranchising the new arrivals when you disenfranchise those who can show a 4,500 year occupancy of Palestine unbroken till the present day.

The "original" Palestinians were Greeks when you come right down to it. Who exactly am I "disenfranchising"? I'm not the one calling folks "colonists" or "squatters" or demanding mass expulsions. Try to keep your facts striaight.

So what are you doing when you harp on about the Palestinians saying they will expel all the Israeli's from Palestine.

Where am I harping on that? Israeli's can stay, presumably, but as Palestinian citizens not Israeli citizens.

Who gave the name to the greeks then as the Palestine of today is what the Romans called Judea and Samaria. The Greeks did not inhabit Palestine but Syria palestina and a coastal strip of land.

You are disenfranchising the Jews who have more legal rights to inhabit Jewish Palestine than the illegal Islamic immigrants that you support. The Jews have International law on their side, while the muslims have nothing but left wing Nazi support.

I'm not disenfranchising anyone. I totally support Israel's right to exist and the right of Israeli's to be there.

There are no "illegal Islamic immigrants" - check international law on that.

I have and the muslims are deemed to be illegal immigrants at the very least, hostile alien immigrants if you prefer that should be expelled for stealing the land. If you support Israel's right to exist then you MUST support its right to control all of the land the Jews were granted in 1923 and not just the paltry 70% that the racist UN has allowed them to live on

 

[Phoenall]

Just as you do by refusing to recognise that the original palestinians were the Jews as neither the Christians or muslims had yet been invented. So you are no better than those you accuse of disenfranchising the new arrivals when you disenfranchise those who can show a 4,500 year occupancy of Palestine unbroken till the present day.

The "original" Palestinians were Greeks when you come right down to it. Who exactly am I "disenfranchising"? I'm not the one calling folks "colonists" or "squatters" or demanding mass expulsions. Try to keep your facts striaight.

So what are you doing when you harp on about the Palestinians saying they will expel all the Israeli's from Palestine.

Where am I harping on that? Israeli's can stay, presumably, but as Palestinian citizens not Israeli citizens.

Who gave the name to the greeks then as the Palestine of today is what the Romans called Judea and Samaria. The Greeks did not inhabit Palestine but Syria palestina and a coastal strip of land.

You are disenfranchising the Jews who have more legal rights to inhabit Jewish Palestine than the illegal Islamic immigrants that you support. The Jews have International law on their side, while the muslims have nothing but left wing Nazi support.

I'm not disenfranchising anyone. I totally support Israel's right to exist and the right of Israeli's to be there.

There are no "illegal Islamic immigrants" - check international law on that.

Even today, the PA is not just arresting those who sell land but their families as well. Those that sell land can be executed, without trial.
What do you think will happen to the jews who bought the land when the PA is in total control? How long do you expect them to keep breathing?
Arabs can buy land in Israel, in areas of private land, but jews can't buy land in the WB?

Actually - I've said, multiple times, that there is a difference between words and likely outcome. There is so much entrenched hate on both sides that it would be hard to guarantee safety and security - or for Jews to trust that guarantee. None of that changes what Abbas actually said which you keep distorting.

Arabs can buy some land. But they are prevented from living in Jewish only settlements aren't they?

Because that is the covenant on that land. Just as I cant park a van outside my house if it has a company name or logo on the sides. In other places an external TV antenna is not allowed, and I believe in the US housing projects ban the erection of boundary fences to the from of some properties..


What Abbas said mirrors what is in the Palestinian charter, that the only Jews/Israelis that would be allowed to live in a unified Palestine would be those born before the first Zionist set foot in Palestine. Why do you ignore the facts

 

[Phoenall]

The false equivalency is genuinely amazing

What "false equivalency" is that?

What laws enacted by the Israeli government stops arab muslims from buying any land in Israel, compared to the laws enacted by Abbas and co that bans the sale of land to Jews and makes it a capital crime.

 

[Phoenall]

You seem to think that the Judaic response to Arab aggression can be held up to the same candle as the Arab aggression.

What do you mean "Judaic"? I'm talking about Israel - a sovereign state, and it's actions. I'm not sure exactly what you mean here or how it relates to what I posted but not all Israel's actions are "defensive" or moral. You have to look at it in a case by case basis and in all those cases it's not "Judaic" or "Arab" - it's a state or a terrorist or, if you are talking about prior wars - other states.

One is a purely defensive action ( that would be the Israeli actions )

Depends on the particular action.

The other, blatant racism with some genocidal intentions thrown in ( that would be the palestinians sending their teenagers out to stab pregnant Israeli woman )

Throwing in the race card does nothing more than demean the entire debate - wa wa wa it's racism!

Comparing an Israeli community that has for its own protection banned enemy combatants from its midst to the enemy who kills its own should they ever sell land to the Israeli's is disingenuous at best

That wasn't even what I was talking about. I'm talking about the kind of segregation like we used to have - you know, "white only" communities.

Why do we have to look at each individual case when it concerns the Jews, but have to look at the overall picture when it is the Palestinians. Can you see the disenfranchisement in your words. You cant say take each case separately apart from when I don't want to as it shows the Israeli's to be acting in accordance with international law. Is it Israel a sovereign state or is it individuals that you want to use ?

Find one that is not defensive then, as the actions are to protect against not just present attacks but future attacks as well

And trying to derail the discussion by claiming it is using the race card when that is the whole crux of the problem shows that you don't want the overt racism being shown. To allow it is to admit that the Jews are a race, and doing this destroys half of your arguments.

Which do not exist in Israel, but certainly do exist in Palestine.

 

[Coyote]

That is the point I was making. It's inaccurate to say Israel has existed all this time. It hasn't. The people have. Just like the Palestinian people have even if they did not go by that name.

What I have to ask, when people make these arguments - is why is this argument so important? The only reason I can see is this. One side wants to disenfranchise the Jews of their rights. The other side wants to disenfranchise the Palestinians of their rights.

The fact of the matter is they both have rights to be there so how are we going to deal with it? With continual nonsensical arguments about who is or isn't indiginous, who is or isn't an "invader" or "squatter" - who is or isn't a "real people" - and all the old genetic crap?

Just as you do by refusing to recognise that the original palestinians were the Jews as neither the Christians or muslims had yet been invented. So you are no better than those you accuse of disenfranchising the new arrivals when you disenfranchise those who can show a 4,500 year occupancy of Palestine unbroken till the present day.

The "original" Palestinians were Greeks when you come right down to it. Who exactly am I "disenfranchising"? I'm not the one calling folks "colonists" or "squatters" or demanding mass expulsions. Try to keep your facts striaight.

So what are you doing when you harp on about the Palestinians saying they will expel all the Israeli's from Palestine.

Where am I harping on that? Israeli's can stay, presumably, but as Palestinian citizens not Israeli citizens.

Who gave the name to the greeks then as the Palestine of today is what the Romans called Judea and Samaria. The Greeks did not inhabit Palestine but Syria palestina and a coastal strip of land.

You are disenfranchising the Jews who have more legal rights to inhabit Jewish Palestine than the illegal Islamic immigrants that you support. The Jews have International law on their side, while the muslims have nothing but left wing Nazi support.

I'm not disenfranchising anyone. I totally support Israel's right to exist and the right of Israeli's to be there.

There are no "illegal Islamic immigrants" - check international law on that.

I have and the muslims are deemed to be illegal immigrants

By what law?

 

[Coyote]

The "original" Palestinians were Greeks when you come right down to it. Who exactly am I "disenfranchising"? I'm not the one calling folks "colonists" or "squatters" or demanding mass expulsions. Try to keep your facts striaight.

So what are you doing when you harp on about the Palestinians saying they will expel all the Israeli's from Palestine.

Where am I harping on that? Israeli's can stay, presumably, but as Palestinian citizens not Israeli citizens.

Who gave the name to the greeks then as the Palestine of today is what the Romans called Judea and Samaria. The Greeks did not inhabit Palestine but Syria palestina and a coastal strip of land.

You are disenfranchising the Jews who have more legal rights to inhabit Jewish Palestine than the illegal Islamic immigrants that you support. The Jews have International law on their side, while the muslims have nothing but left wing Nazi support.

I'm not disenfranchising anyone. I totally support Israel's right to exist and the right of Israeli's to be there.

There are no "illegal Islamic immigrants" - check international law on that.

Even today, the PA is not just arresting those who sell land but their families as well. Those that sell land can be executed, without trial.
What do you think will happen to the jews who bought the land when the PA is in total control? How long do you expect them to keep breathing?
Arabs can buy land in Israel, in areas of private land, but jews can't buy land in the WB?

Actually - I've said, multiple times, that there is a difference between words and likely outcome. There is so much entrenched hate on both sides that it would be hard to guarantee safety and security - or for Jews to trust that guarantee. None of that changes what Abbas actually said which you keep distorting.

Arabs can buy some land. But they are prevented from living in Jewish only settlements aren't they?

Because that is the covenant on that land. Just as I cant park a van outside my house if it has a company name or logo on the sides. In other places an external TV antenna is not allowed, and I believe in the US housing projects ban the erection of boundary fences to the from of some properties..


What Abbas said mirrors what is in the Palestinian charter, that the only Jews/Israelis that would be allowed to live in a unified Palestine would be those born before the first Zionist set foot in Palestine. Why do you ignore the facts

People aren't vans.

In the US, It is illegal to discrimminate against religion, race, gender or ethnicity in housing.

 

[Phoenall]

Looks like it was exactly what you were talking about

Quote

Arabs can buy some land. But they are prevented from living in Jewish only settlements aren't they?

End Quote

The Judaic people were the first peoples of, well Judea. They can be traced back to the stone age and represent the indigenous population.

Today they are known as the Israeli's however, there appears some confusion over some of them having returned to the Canaan area after a brief sojourn abroad. So I think it might help clear up some misconceptions if we just refer to the native people here as Judaic and the colonists as Arab Muslims. I hope that helps LMAO ;--)

The race card is more than applicable given the stated goal of the Arabs to wash in Judaic blood and throw every last "Jew" into the sea.

The issue of false equivalence is common in the revisionist narrative. Which relies heavily on blatant lies and misrepresentations. Kinda like equating the Israeli's defensive actions regarding palestinians to the horrendous acts of violence by the palestinians.

Israel is a modern nation. The indiginous population consists of many religious identities. What we call Israeli's today may or may not have links to this "stone age" population. What IS known is, genetically, Israeli's and Palestinians are close cousins. Thousands of years does not constitute a "brief" sojurn

There are no Arab colonists. (are you yanking my chain?)

The race card diminishes what is a valid struggle of the Palestinian people for a state - whether or not you agree with it. One can also toss the race card into the Israeli camp and the inquities in the justice system, permit system for new construction, right down to Netanyahu's own words about "Arab Israeli's".

Depends on which school you subscribe to for your evidence. If there is a clear link between the bodies in Jewish cemeteries dating to the time of the Roman conquest and the European Jews then they are linked quite firmly. If there is less than an 85% match between Palestinians and any of the Jews that make up the population of Israel then they are not closely linked. What is known from studying many genetic trials is that the Palestinians as a whole show a marked difference at the genetic level to the Jews. In fact they are not even third cousins according to the studies, and some have had to use such tactics as to claim that the modern Jews are descended from just 3 European women. ( they must have been as busy as the Palestinians to produce so many children that no interbreeding took place.

If they are arabs then they have migrated from arabia to colonise the land. What don't you understand about that.

The Palestinian people already had a state granted in 1923, which they took up in 1948 after they were beaten back after trying to destroy Israel and wipe out the Jews. They then decided that their homeland would be better as a caliphate ran along sharia lines so declared war on the ruler of Jordan. So if anyone has diminished their struggle it is themselves, as for 65 years they did not make any demands for a separate state for the arab muslim immigrants.

Is that like your African Americans, Irish Americans, Scots Americans etc. Does this make you just as racist ?