Conservatives and Libertarians - Sound Off

[Paulie]

Echo, PELL grants are different. They don't get paid back. They are just free money because you can vote.

 

[xsited1]

"You give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. You teach a man to fish, and he'll have food for a lifetime."

You can give people food, shelter, and clothing, and potentially get NOTHING in return for it besides entitled, lazy, selfish pricks. If you help someone get an education, you potentially get a more productive member of society.

Loaning someone money to get a real education is an investment in the country's future. Loaning someone money for a house just gives them a house. Giving them money for food just gives them food. What does the government get out of those two things besides a needy citizen and a vote?

If it's a government backed home loan, the government could make interest on that loan and the food would give them something to eat so that they could work and make money to pay off the loan. The government can therefore make a profit. Big Government wins again!!!!

 

[random3434]

Echo, PELL grants are different. They don't get paid back. They are just free money because you can vote.

Yeah, I know that Paulie. I'm just saying they helped me out in college, when I needed it. After my dad died I had to put myself through school, so every little bit helped. Just like my daughter, it's just she and I, and you KNOW I don't make much $$ as a teacher! I know we will find a way to pay for her college, she wants to major in journalism!

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I don't know why so many people think that all Libertarians agree on everything. Not all Republicans agree on everything and not all Democrats agree on everything, why would you expect Libertarians to agree on every little thing?

 

[Paulie]

"You give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. You teach a man to fish, and he'll have food for a lifetime."

You can give people food, shelter, and clothing, and potentially get NOTHING in return for it besides entitled, lazy, selfish pricks. If you help someone get an education, you potentially get a more productive member of society.

Loaning someone money to get a real education is an investment in the country's future. Loaning someone money for a house just gives them a house. Giving them money for food just gives them food. What does the government get out of those two things besides a needy citizen and a vote?

If it's a government backed home loan, the government could make interest on that loan and the food would give them something to eat so that they could work and make money to pay off the loan. The government can therefore make a profit. Big Government wins again!!!!

Sure, until you loan the money to some uneducated trash man that makes $10/hr and then defaults on the loan because he had no higher education and couldn't make any real money.

The government doesn't benefit just because it's an interest bearing loan. It benefits from a school loan because that person is going to become more productive, and make a higher wage.

You can go to a regular bank and take a completely private loan, default, and that bank is obviously going to go to Washington to recoup its losses from you anyway.

No matter what, we lose as taxpayers. The government has already proven it will back stop bad debt time and time again. They back stopped home loans which got them NOTHING. At least back stopping an education ultimately leads to a PRODUCER.

 

[DiamondDave]

Echo, PELL grants are different. They don't get paid back. They are just free money because you can vote.

Yeah, I know that Paulie. I'm just saying they helped me out in college, when I needed it. After my dad died I had to put myself through school, so every little bit helped. Just like my daughter, it's just she and I, and you KNOW I don't make much $$ as a teacher! I know we will find a way to pay for her college, she wants to major in journalism!

I forget where that becomes someone else's situation and/or problem??/ Can you remind me?? (No offense about losing your dad.. I know exactly how that is)... But you're an adult, and I assume were an adult in college... A loan from family or a bank would have "helped" too.. Saving up money to go later would have also "helped"... Working your way thru it also would have "helped"...

 

[DiamondDave]

"You give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. You teach a man to fish, and he'll have food for a lifetime."

You can give people food, shelter, and clothing, and potentially get NOTHING in return for it besides entitled, lazy, selfish pricks. If you help someone get an education, you potentially get a more productive member of society.

Loaning someone money to get a real education is an investment in the country's future. Loaning someone money for a house just gives them a house. Giving them money for food just gives them food. What does the government get out of those two things besides a needy citizen and a vote?

And beat a man half to death with a fish and he probably won't want to ever eat another one

Paulie... education is a good thing.. that you are not going to get an argument about... same with stating that those who get higher education will generally become great productive society members..


But when you are an adult, it is only you who are responsible for what you accomplish, how you pay for what you want, etc....

Right. Until you get a private loan from a private bank, default, and that bank goes to Washington to still ultimately recoup its losses FROM YOU.

Sound familiar?

And the FDIC was used just last year extensively. Where have you been?

Funny.. that bank usually tries collection efforts and the civil courts, not inherently "Washington" or Congress or whatever

The FDIC keeps track of failed banks every year.. but MANY times does not have to "pay out" as they broker the deal with other banks taking over, etc... All deposits being safe, etc.. .and in other cases the receivership of the bank becomes the FDIC, who does recoup those expenditures of paying out the depositors...

 

[elvis]

As libertarian as I am, I agree with student loans on their own merit. They generate revenue, and in fact, PROFIT. They serve to offer people an education they otherwise may never have been able to afford, and they add skilled workers to the labor pool. They are not "hand-outs". They get paid back, PLUS interest. If anything were worth the government INVESTING money in, it's higher education.

Sound off. Who out of the conservatives here agrees with them, who disagrees, and WHY?

If the government really thinks children ARE the future, they should either offer student loans at an affordable rate or provide the education for free. Since it will never be free, they should offer student loans. The government is GUARANTEED to get the money back plus interest. Student loans are not "bankruptable". If an individual goes bankrupt, they still owe their student loans.

 

[Paulie]

Funny.. that bank usually tries collection efforts and the civil courts, not inherently "Washington" or Congress or whatever

"tries" is the key word. They "tried" to get people to pay their home mortgages, but alas, too many didn't. So they went to Washington to dump their write-downs on our collective laps.

 

[DiamondDave]

As libertarian as I am, I agree with student loans on their own merit. They generate revenue, and in fact, PROFIT. They serve to offer people an education they otherwise may never have been able to afford, and they add skilled workers to the labor pool. They are not "hand-outs". They get paid back, PLUS interest. If anything were worth the government INVESTING money in, it's higher education.

Sound off. Who out of the conservatives here agrees with them, who disagrees, and WHY?

If the government really thinks children ARE the future, they should either offer student loans at an affordable rate or provide the education for free. Since it will never be free, they should offer student loans. The government is GUARANTEED to get the money back plus interest. Student loans are not "bankruptable". If an individual goes bankrupt, they still owe their student loans.

And if they live in mom's basement with no job.. or in a Frigidaire box... How do they FORCE the $$ out of them?? Squeeze it like an orange??

Again... as an adult, you are responsible for yourself... nobody else is... nobody or nothing owes you a damn thing you do not earn.. and just simply breathing is not earning something

 

[elvis]

As libertarian as I am, I agree with student loans on their own merit. They generate revenue, and in fact, PROFIT. They serve to offer people an education they otherwise may never have been able to afford, and they add skilled workers to the labor pool. They are not "hand-outs". They get paid back, PLUS interest. If anything were worth the government INVESTING money in, it's higher education.

Sound off. Who out of the conservatives here agrees with them, who disagrees, and WHY?

If the government really thinks children ARE the future, they should either offer student loans at an affordable rate or provide the education for free. Since it will never be free, they should offer student loans. The government is GUARANTEED to get the money back plus interest. Student loans are not "bankruptable". If an individual goes bankrupt, they still owe their student loans.

And if they live in mom's basement with no job.. or in a Frigidaire box... How do they FORCE the $$ out of them?? Squeeze it like an orange??

Again... as an adult, you are responsible for yourself... nobody else is... nobody or nothing owes you a damn thing you do not earn.. and just simply breathing is not earning something

I think that is the point I was making. the government should LOAN the money. As a libertarian, I am all about personal responsibility.

 

[DiamondDave]

If the government really thinks children ARE the future, they should either offer student loans at an affordable rate or provide the education for free. Since it will never be free, they should offer student loans. The government is GUARANTEED to get the money back plus interest. Student loans are not "bankruptable". If an individual goes bankrupt, they still owe their student loans.

And if they live in mom's basement with no job.. or in a Frigidaire box... How do they FORCE the $$ out of them?? Squeeze it like an orange??

Again... as an adult, you are responsible for yourself... nobody else is... nobody or nothing owes you a damn thing you do not earn.. and just simply breathing is not earning something

I think that is the point I was making. the government should LOAN the money.

Why?

The government was set up to be your personal bank? Isn't that what ACTUAL banks exist for?

No... the government exists to ensure that you have the freedom to pursue your education, pursue your wish to borrow money to pay for it, etc... not give your or "lend" you the $$$

 

[Paulie]

And if they live in mom's basement with no job.. or in a Frigidaire box... How do they FORCE the $$ out of them?? Squeeze it like an orange??

How does the private bank get THEIR money out of borrowers? Squeeze it like an orange? Nope. They write it down until it becomes too much of a liability, and then they dump it in the taxpayers' laps via Congress.

No matter what, the fed is going to back stop debt. They've proven it. It's never going to stop unless you plan on gathering a couple million of your closest friends, arming up, and going to Washington to change regimes. Otherwise, you may as well get the most out of it. A student loan is not a hand-out. It is a responsibility. The few who do default do not even come close to the many who DON'T. It's a sound investment. It can not be written off of your liabilities and your credit report. You either pay it back, or you suffer the consequences of never being able to take part in anything of substance financially in this country.

There's enough accountability to sustain the policy and make it worthwhile.

 

[elvis]

And if they live in mom's basement with no job.. or in a Frigidaire box... How do they FORCE the $$ out of them?? Squeeze it like an orange??

Again... as an adult, you are responsible for yourself... nobody else is... nobody or nothing owes you a damn thing you do not earn.. and just simply breathing is not earning something

I think that is the point I was making. the government should LOAN the money.

Why?

The government was set up to be your personal bank? Isn't that what ACTUAL banks exist for?

No... the government exists to ensure that you have the freedom to pursue your education, pursue your wish to borrow money to pay for it, etc... not give your or "lend" you the $$$

You're a veteran, correct? You could/did get a college education on Uncle Sam's dime?

 

[random3434]

Echo, PELL grants are different. They don't get paid back. They are just free money because you can vote.

Yeah, I know that Paulie. I'm just saying they helped me out in college, when I needed it. After my dad died I had to put myself through school, so every little bit helped. Just like my daughter, it's just she and I, and you KNOW I don't make much $$ as a teacher! I know we will find a way to pay for her college, she wants to major in journalism!

I forget where that becomes someone else's situation and/or problem??/ Can you remind me?? (No offense about losing your dad.. I know exactly how that is)... But you're an adult, and I assume were an adult in college... A loan from family or a bank would have "helped" too.. Saving up money to go later would have also "helped"... Working your way thru it also would have "helped"...

Thanks for your concern. For your information, I DID work my way through college, as a bartender/waitress-driving north from Bloomington, Indiana to Indianapolis every weekend to work. I also had student loans (which I paid back after gradution in a few years) and went to college longer than the "regular" 4 years so I COULD afford to get my degree, it just took me a few years longer.

 

[DiamondDave]

I think that is the point I was making. the government should LOAN the money.

Why?

The government was set up to be your personal bank? Isn't that what ACTUAL banks exist for?

No... the government exists to ensure that you have the freedom to pursue your education, pursue your wish to borrow money to pay for it, etc... not give your or "lend" you the $$$

You're a veteran, correct? You could/did get a college education on Uncle Sam's dime?

So every person getting a federal student loan is then an employee of the government?

Funny... the salary and benefits I derived from my service and employment seem to have been FUCKING EARNED

 

[elvis]

Why?

The government was set up to be your personal bank? Isn't that what ACTUAL banks exist for?

No... the government exists to ensure that you have the freedom to pursue your education, pursue your wish to borrow money to pay for it, etc... not give your or "lend" you the $$$

You're a veteran, correct? You could/did get a college education on Uncle Sam's dime?

So every person getting a federal student loan is then an employee of the government?

Funny... the salary and benefits I derived from my service and employment seem to have been FUCKING EARNED

I believe in the GI bill. Should I have to go into the Armed Forces to avoid high interest rates from the banks? What do you think banks would charge students if there weren't federal student loans?

 

[DiamondDave]

You're a veteran, correct? You could/did get a college education on Uncle Sam's dime?

So every person getting a federal student loan is then an employee of the government?

Funny... the salary and benefits I derived from my service and employment seem to have been FUCKING EARNED

I believe in the GI bill. Should I have to go into the Armed Forces to avoid high interest rates from the banks? What do you think banks would charge students if there weren't federal student loans?

Should you EARN your benefits?? YEP... not only yep... but HELL FUCKING YES.....

Does it have to be the Army?? Nope... Could it be an entry level job in a corporation that has education reimbursement benefits? Yep... Could it be a normal loan? Yep... Could it be saving it up for yourself? Yep....

What would banks charge?... WHAT THE MARKET WOULD BEAR..

Again.... you are not owed this because you fucking exist..

 

[elvis]

So every person getting a federal student loan is then an employee of the government?

Funny... the salary and benefits I derived from my service and employment seem to have been FUCKING EARNED

I believe in the GI bill. Should I have to go into the Armed Forces to avoid high interest rates from the banks? What do you think banks would charge students if there weren't federal student loans?

Should you EARN your benefits?? YEP... not only yep... but HELL FUCKING YES.....

Does it have to be the Army?? Nope... Could it be an entry level job in a corporation that has education reimbursement benefits? Yep... Could it be a normal loan? Yep... Could it be saving it up for yourself? Yep....

What would banks charge?... WHAT THE MARKET WOULD BEAR..

Again.... you are not owed this because you fucking exist..

Owed? Hmm how can you be owed if you are required to pay them back plus interest? the rate from the bank would be outrageous and banks don't have to loan you money. If you hadn't said hell fucking yes, you wouldn't have meant what you said?

 

[elvis]

I am sure you are mad as hell that people actually get student loans from the govt that they have to pay back, but you don't think twice about the billions of dollars spent on the Iraq War that you, me, and everyone's children will be paying for for the next 30 years.