CONFIRMED!: Rich People DO Create the Jobs

[cbirch2]

No, no...every single one of them will be living in the big house and dictating to the proles. They're smarter than us, see. We can't live our lives without them making decisions for us.

No, really. Just ask 'em.


Actually, they'll be put up against the wall as soon as their useful idiocy is no longer useful.

Theres that conspiracy theory mind of yours again.

Obama wants to raise taxes on rich people by 4% and passed the healthcare plan republicans proposed in the 90's!! This must be 1984, and we must be the proles!

Actually the interesting thing is that in 1984, reagan was more liberal than obama is today. At least by a lot of measures.

No conspiracy theory. Leftists are addicted to other people's money. This is undeniable.

 

[Big Fitz]

As a conservative, I am shall we say... LESS than supportive of this plan in toto.

1) Make unions illegal ( 10 million new jobs), Democrats oppose

Unions have a benefit when in the private sector for worker protection from managerial/ownership abuse. You cannot trust government to act as your union rep. The problem happens when they become political OR too big OR protected. They should NEVER be in the public sector. EVER.

OMG!!! you failed to address the point 100%, i.e., unions have already shipped 30 million jobs overseas. I guess the unions forgot to protect against that ????????????????

30 million jobs lost BECAUSE of unions? Hmmm. Got some hard data on that rather platitudesque number?

The unions were unable to PROTECT these jobs because they priced themselves out of the market based on your other 'conservative value' of unlimited globalist free trade. When you open the flood gates to compete in a global marketplace, while labor and capital are mobile, it will FLOOD to the best value if there is no disadvantage to leaving a nation. But if you crack them with tariffs or other trade barriers to prevent jobs and businesses that have no reason to be loyal to this nation other than cost/profit, they will stay. Downside? Protectionist prices on the public who get hit with the more expensive goods. Upside, the jobs stay domestic and they can afford the cost of these items.

Also, you fail to recognize or consider the fact that free trade is fine if you are a developing nation with low 'civilization costs'. You've the benefit of cheap labor and an underdeveloped legal environment that allows for environmental disasters to occur as well as abuse of the work force and other barbarities that the developed nations grew their way out of already. So all you are doing is turning a blind global eye to a sin you would not tolerate in your back yard, to putting it 6-10 thousand miles away and saying "my how civilized we are". This is followed by bitching about outsourcing. No, free trade is never good for the leading nations, for they are always dragged down in quality of life to a lower standard as the rest of the world rushes upwards to make an equilibrium with them. So at the expense of those who have achieved, those who haven't rush forward. Sure, in 2-4 generations this will slow or stop... but is it worth it? Not really when there are other, better ways to go about this.

So your desires are in conflict. Cheap goods we will have with a global free trade market.... and the inability to afford them too, because our standard of living, if lucky, will be dragged down to the equivalent of say Spain, Greece or Thailand. I'm sure you'd want THAT to happen here with all the commiserate declines in quality of life due to the fact we can no longer afford the civilization costs either.

 

[Big Fitz]

Theres that conspiracy theory mind of yours again.

Obama wants to raise taxes on rich people by 4% and passed the healthcare plan republicans proposed in the 90's!! This must be 1984, and we must be the proles!

Actually the interesting thing is that in 1984, reagan was more liberal than obama is today. At least by a lot of measures.

No conspiracy theory. Leftists are addicted to other people's money. This is undeniable.

Tis true. I think it was Margaret Thatcher who said that Communism works till they run out of other people's money. Every communist/socialist government fails in this respect because they do not run on achievement, merit and individual drive. It's inevitable. The only thing that varies is when and how violent they collapse.

 

[Intense]

a) this is like saying let's make gravity illegal.

actually all you do is change the Fed mandate to be, "no inflation" and the matter is resolved. Seems you don't know a think about monetary policy.

Impossible to do. b) If you screw with the value of money to hide inflation you get other problems.

actually if you make inflation illegal there is no inflation to hide

This was the issue with the Gold Standard. You got money or gold shortages based on inflation and what was more profitable. Too many dollars, people trade them in for gold, causing a gold shortage.

illiterate idiotic gibberish. the beauty of the gold standard is that if a bank prints too many dollars people turn them in at a pegged rate and
the bank loses more gold than it has and goes bankrupt. THe incentive for 0% inflation is perfect!!!!!!!

Too much gold, you get a money shortage as you have to keep the price constant.

who ever heard of too much gold?? You are very slow. Sorry.

What part of the Federal Government Controlling Inflation don't you get? You think the Federal Government is going to pass a law making Inflation Illegal and then turn itself in? Yeah Right. When Pigs Fly. Who's devaluing the Dollar while keeping Savings and Retirement Interest Rates so Low? Who's ******* Who here?

 

[Big Fitz]

Do away with the minimum wage and let the prices float. Sure. Create 5 million jobs? Dubious at best.

here's the concept. If a car costs $100,000, X people can afford it. When the price drops to $50,000, X times 150% can now afford it.
Econ 101.

Yes, very Econ 101. Did you just take that this semester? You are failing to take in many OTHER factors of your simple equation.

If you drop prices, you will have more people be able to afford it. This is true, but it requires you to take into consideration your desire for either an unprotected or global market.

If the factory that MAKES that car moves overseas, all those jobs are lost, and then none of the workers can afford it, regardless of the price because their income is gone. Next, the jobs being gone, and minimum wage gone, any job will be better than starving. This is known as a labor glut, and prices on wages for what jobs are available will drop precipitously. This will force people to migrate to where there are jobs wherever they may be just like "Grapes of Wrath" with Okies moving to California to escape the Dust Bowl.

So, for your best illustration, take a look at Detroit. New cars being bought there? Barely. Glut of labor from closed plants. Those who could have fled leaving massive empty areas which the city wants to bulldoze and shut down.

The world is not so neat and clean as your econ textbook, and you need to start considering a consequence filled world where those on the other sides of boarders are not quite so sympathetic, nice or anxious to be our friends and are just waiting to take advantage of naive little innocents such as yourself.

 

[daveman]

Theres that conspiracy theory mind of yours again.

Obama wants to raise taxes on rich people by 4% and passed the healthcare plan republicans proposed in the 90's!! This must be 1984, and we must be the proles!

Actually the interesting thing is that in 1984, reagan was more liberal than obama is today. At least by a lot of measures.

No conspiracy theory. Leftists are addicted to other people's money. This is undeniable.

At least you're no longer trying to deny it. That's progress.

 

[Intense]

Do away with the minimum wage and let the prices float. Sure. Create 5 million jobs? Dubious at best.

here's the concept. If a car costs $100,000, X people can afford it. When the price drops to $50,000, X times 150% can now afford it.
Econ 101.

Yes, very Econ 101. Did you just take that this semester? You are failing to take in many OTHER factors of your simple equation.

If you drop prices, you will have more people be able to afford it. This is true, but it requires you to take into consideration your desire for either an unprotected or global market.

If the factory that MAKES that car moves overseas, all those jobs are lost, and then none of the workers can afford it, regardless of the price because their income is gone. Next, the jobs being gone, and minimum wage gone, any job will be better than starving. This is known as a labor glut, and prices on wages for what jobs are available will drop precipitously. This will force people to migrate to where there are jobs wherever they may be just like "Grapes of Wrath" with Okies moving to California to escape the Dust Bowl.

So, for your best illustration, take a look at Detroit. New cars being bought there? Barely. Glut of labor from closed plants. Those who could have fled leaving massive empty areas which the city wants to bulldoze and shut down.

The world is not so neat and clean as your econ textbook, and you need to start considering a consequence filled world where those on the other sides of boarders are not quite so sympathetic, nice or anxious to be our friends and are just waiting to take advantage of naive little innocents such as yourself.

There is no protecting, unless you refer to sacrificing the Masses, the Body, to float the Privileged Elite, You know, Government Workers and Union Workers, at the expense of the rest of us. You remember, like FDR did.

 

[cbirch2]

No conspiracy theory. Leftists are addicted to other people's money. This is undeniable.

At least you're no longer trying to deny it. That's progress.

No friend, i laugh because your projecting your imagination upon someone you dont know.

Leftists are addicting to other peoples money? You live in a fantasy land. As if every liberal in the nation is getting kick-backs or something. Again, i dont get money from the government and i pay my taxes. Why would i vote democratic, in your mind? Ive never met someone that sees the world through such a ideological lens. The liberals are communists heretics and the conservatives are standing with reagan and jesus rallying the soldiers in preparation for Armageddon, when the holy will go to heaven and capitalism will triumph over communism. Does that sum up your political stance pretty well?

No wonder the stats show that the more education you have the less likely you are to vote republican. it makes so much sense after talking to you.

Can you provide any evidence, other than wishful thinking, that liberals are trying to take all of your money? Raising the tax rate for the top bracket by 4%?

 

[Big Fitz]

here's the concept. If a car costs $100,000, X people can afford it. When the price drops to $50,000, X times 150% can now afford it.
Econ 101.

Yes, very Econ 101. Did you just take that this semester? You are failing to take in many OTHER factors of your simple equation.

If you drop prices, you will have more people be able to afford it. This is true, but it requires you to take into consideration your desire for either an unprotected or global market.

If the factory that MAKES that car moves overseas, all those jobs are lost, and then none of the workers can afford it, regardless of the price because their income is gone. Next, the jobs being gone, and minimum wage gone, any job will be better than starving. This is known as a labor glut, and prices on wages for what jobs are available will drop precipitously. This will force people to migrate to where there are jobs wherever they may be just like "Grapes of Wrath" with Okies moving to California to escape the Dust Bowl.

So, for your best illustration, take a look at Detroit. New cars being bought there? Barely. Glut of labor from closed plants. Those who could have fled leaving massive empty areas which the city wants to bulldoze and shut down.

The world is not so neat and clean as your econ textbook, and you need to start considering a consequence filled world where those on the other sides of boarders are not quite so sympathetic, nice or anxious to be our friends and are just waiting to take advantage of naive little innocents such as yourself.

There is no protecting, unless you refer to sacrificing the Masses, the Body, to float the Privileged Elite, You know, Government Workers and Union Workers, at the expense of the rest of us. You remember, like FDR did.

The protections I see the union being useful for is small scale, not industry wide. Worker makes a mistake that isn't that extreme, gets canned or suspended can grieve to the union about his punishment he feels is unfair. That's a good purpose of a union. Same goes with inter-worker issues. He's harassing her because he finds her hot and she said no. Seen it happen, and the union is the best place to solve it.

BUT when I was told that those services count for just under 4 dollars out of 50 a month I pay on union dues, the rest is for 'contract negotiation'... I get a little dubious over what goes on there behind closed doors.

 

[Big Fitz]

At least you're no longer trying to deny it. That's progress.

No friend, i laugh because your projecting your imagination upon someone you dont know.

Leftists are addicting to other peoples money? You live in a fantasy land. As if every liberal in the nation is getting kick-backs or something. Again, i dont get money from the government and i pay my taxes. Why would i vote democratic, in your mind? Ive never met someone that sees the world through such a ideological lens. The liberals are communists heretics and the conservatives are standing with reagan and jesus rallying the soldiers in preparation for Armageddon, when the holy will go to heaven and capitalism will triumph over communism. Does that sum up your political stance pretty well?

No wonder the stats show that the more education you have the less likely you are to vote republican. it makes so much sense after talking to you.

Can you provide any evidence, other than wishful thinking, that liberals are trying to take all of your money? Raising the tax rate for the top bracket by 4%?

Statistics also show the more time you spend being brainwashed, the more likely you will be to agree with the brainwasher. Well isn't THAT convenient.

Also, you laugh at historical fact. Not surprised, liberals won't believe their damn lying eyes if it does not agree with party line.

 

[daveman]

At least you're no longer trying to deny it. That's progress.

No friend, i laugh because your projecting your imagination upon someone you dont know.

Leftists are addicting to other peoples money? You live in a fantasy land. As if every liberal in the nation is getting kick-backs or something. Again, i dont get money from the government and i pay my taxes. Why would i vote liberal?

If you vote liberal, you're voting to take money away from people who have it and give it to people who don't. You don't have to be the recipient, and I never claimed you had to be the recipient.

This, too, is inarguable.

No wonder the stats show that the more education you have the less likely you are to vote republican. it makes so much sense after talking to you.

I suggest you check your stats.

Source: Democratic Party (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

 

[cbirch2]

At least you're no longer trying to deny it. That's progress.

No friend, i laugh because your projecting your imagination upon someone you dont know.

Leftists are addicting to other peoples money? You live in a fantasy land. As if every liberal in the nation is getting kick-backs or something. Again, i dont get money from the government and i pay my taxes. Why would i vote democratic, in your mind? Ive never met someone that sees the world through such a ideological lens. The liberals are communists heretics and the conservatives are standing with reagan and jesus rallying the soldiers in preparation for Armageddon, when the holy will go to heaven and capitalism will triumph over communism. Does that sum up your political stance pretty well?

No wonder the stats show that the more education you have the less likely you are to vote republican. it makes so much sense after talking to you.

Can you provide any evidence, other than wishful thinking, that liberals are trying to take all of your money? Raising the tax rate for the top bracket by 4%?

Statistics also show the more time you spend being brainwashed, the more likely you will be to agree with the brainwasher. Well isn't THAT convenient.

Also, you laugh at historical fact. Not surprised, liberals won't believe their damn lying eyes if it does not agree with party line.

So because the soviet union existed in the 20th century, every liberal from this point forward is trying to steal money? Insanity.

Again, hes just proposed a 4% raise on the top tax bracket. SOCIALISM!!!

 

[daveman]

At least you're no longer trying to deny it. That's progress.

No friend, i laugh because your projecting your imagination upon someone you dont know.

Leftists are addicting to other peoples money? You live in a fantasy land. As if every liberal in the nation is getting kick-backs or something. Again, i dont get money from the government and i pay my taxes. Why would i vote democratic, in your mind? Ive never met someone that sees the world through such a ideological lens. The liberals are communists heretics and the conservatives are standing with reagan and jesus rallying the soldiers in preparation for Armageddon, when the holy will go to heaven and capitalism will triumph over communism. Does that sum up your political stance pretty well?

No wonder the stats show that the more education you have the less likely you are to vote republican. it makes so much sense after talking to you.

Can you provide any evidence, other than wishful thinking, that liberals are trying to take all of your money? Raising the tax rate for the top bracket by 4%?

Statistics also show the more time you spend being brainwashed, the more likely you will be to agree with the brainwasher. Well isn't THAT convenient.

Also, you laugh at historical fact. Not surprised, liberals won't believe their damn lying eyes if it does not agree with party line.

In the event of a disagreement between reality and a leftist (which happens quite often)...reality is wrong.

Just ask 'em.

 

[daveman]

No friend, i laugh because your projecting your imagination upon someone you dont know.

Leftists are addicting to other peoples money? You live in a fantasy land. As if every liberal in the nation is getting kick-backs or something. Again, i dont get money from the government and i pay my taxes. Why would i vote democratic, in your mind? Ive never met someone that sees the world through such a ideological lens. The liberals are communists heretics and the conservatives are standing with reagan and jesus rallying the soldiers in preparation for Armageddon, when the holy will go to heaven and capitalism will triumph over communism. Does that sum up your political stance pretty well?

No wonder the stats show that the more education you have the less likely you are to vote republican. it makes so much sense after talking to you.

Can you provide any evidence, other than wishful thinking, that liberals are trying to take all of your money? Raising the tax rate for the top bracket by 4%?

Statistics also show the more time you spend being brainwashed, the more likely you will be to agree with the brainwasher. Well isn't THAT convenient.

Also, you laugh at historical fact. Not surprised, liberals won't believe their damn lying eyes if it does not agree with party line.

So because the soviet union existed in the 20th century, every liberal from this point forward is trying to steal money? Insanity.

Is not one of the basic tenets of the left that taxes must be raised?

Hint: Yes, it is.

Again, hes just proposed a 4% raise on the top tax bracket. SOCIALISM!!!

You have offered no reasoning to show he would be satisfied with that amount.

I, however, have offered reasoning to show that he would not and would indeed seek to raise it again and yet again.

 

[Big Fitz]

No friend, i laugh because your projecting your imagination upon someone you dont know.

Leftists are addicting to other peoples money? You live in a fantasy land. As if every liberal in the nation is getting kick-backs or something. Again, i dont get money from the government and i pay my taxes. Why would i vote democratic, in your mind? Ive never met someone that sees the world through such a ideological lens. The liberals are communists heretics and the conservatives are standing with reagan and jesus rallying the soldiers in preparation for Armageddon, when the holy will go to heaven and capitalism will triumph over communism. Does that sum up your political stance pretty well?

No wonder the stats show that the more education you have the less likely you are to vote republican. it makes so much sense after talking to you.

Can you provide any evidence, other than wishful thinking, that liberals are trying to take all of your money? Raising the tax rate for the top bracket by 4%?

Statistics also show the more time you spend being brainwashed, the more likely you will be to agree with the brainwasher. Well isn't THAT convenient.

Also, you laugh at historical fact. Not surprised, liberals won't believe their damn lying eyes if it does not agree with party line.

So because the soviet union existed in the 20th century, every liberal from this point forward is trying to steal money? Insanity.

Again, hes just proposed a 4% raise on the top tax bracket. SOCIALISM!!!

I'm for a flat percentage on ALL incomes, no exemptions. we'd increase tax rolls by 47% and decrease transfer payments by far more than that. A net gain for the economy and individual freedom.

The fact you discriminate against the rich because they achieve shows you desire to take someone else's money for no merit other than they have some. This both illustrates your greed and desire to steal by using the government to do so, keeping your hands clean. These are undeniable facts because you just did them.

 

[cbirch2]

At least you're no longer trying to deny it. That's progress.

No friend, i laugh because your projecting your imagination upon someone you dont know.

Leftists are addicting to other peoples money? You live in a fantasy land. As if every liberal in the nation is getting kick-backs or something. Again, i dont get money from the government and i pay my taxes. Why would i vote liberal?

If you vote liberal, you're voting to take money away from people who have it and give it to people who don't. You don't have to be the recipient, and I never claimed you had to be the recipient.

This, too, is inarguable.

No wonder the stats show that the more education you have the less likely you are to vote republican. it makes so much sense after talking to you.

I suggest you check your stats.

Source: Democratic Party (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Wow slightly misleading.

Tell me, how does the trend look for all education levels? How do people with graduate degrees compare?

 

[cbirch2]

Statistics also show the more time you spend being brainwashed, the more likely you will be to agree with the brainwasher. Well isn't THAT convenient.

Also, you laugh at historical fact. Not surprised, liberals won't believe their damn lying eyes if it does not agree with party line.

So because the soviet union existed in the 20th century, every liberal from this point forward is trying to steal money? Insanity.

Again, hes just proposed a 4% raise on the top tax bracket. SOCIALISM!!!

I'm for a flat percentage on ALL incomes, no exemptions. we'd increase tax rolls by 47% and decrease transfer payments by far more than that. A net gain for the economy and individual freedom.

The fact you discriminate against the rich because they achieve shows you desire to take someone else's money for no merit other than they have some. This both illustrates your greed and desire to steal by using the government to do so, keeping your hands clean. These are undeniable facts because you just did them.

Lol please run any candidate that is for a flat tax. Im sorry, but i think someone making $10 million a year should pay more in taxes than someone that makes $30,000. If thats stealing in your mind, then call if whatever you want. But most american do not want a flat tax, if anything they want rich people to pay more. So go ahead and call anyone that isnt supportive of a flat tax a socialist, because i bet most voters wont like that very much.

 

[daveman]

No friend, i laugh because your projecting your imagination upon someone you dont know.

Leftists are addicting to other peoples money? You live in a fantasy land. As if every liberal in the nation is getting kick-backs or something. Again, i dont get money from the government and i pay my taxes. Why would i vote liberal?

If you vote liberal, you're voting to take money away from people who have it and give it to people who don't. You don't have to be the recipient, and I never claimed you had to be the recipient.

This, too, is inarguable.

No wonder the stats show that the more education you have the less likely you are to vote republican. it makes so much sense after talking to you.

I suggest you check your stats.

Source: Democratic Party (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Wow slightly misleading.

No, it's not. It proves your claim is wrong.

Tell me, how does the trend look for all education levels? How do people with graduate degrees compare?

How about you back up your claims instead of expecting me to?

 

[daveman]

So because the soviet union existed in the 20th century, every liberal from this point forward is trying to steal money? Insanity.

Again, hes just proposed a 4% raise on the top tax bracket. SOCIALISM!!!

I'm for a flat percentage on ALL incomes, no exemptions. we'd increase tax rolls by 47% and decrease transfer payments by far more than that. A net gain for the economy and individual freedom.

The fact you discriminate against the rich because they achieve shows you desire to take someone else's money for no merit other than they have some. This both illustrates your greed and desire to steal by using the government to do so, keeping your hands clean. These are undeniable facts because you just did them.

Lol please run any candidate that is for a flat tax. Im sorry, but i think someone making $10 million a year should pay more in taxes than someone that makes $30,000. If thats stealing in your mind, then call if whatever you want. But most american do not want a flat tax, if anything they want rich people to pay more. So go ahead and call anyone that isnt supportive of a flat tax a socialist, because i bet most voters wont like that very much.

Under a flat tax, someone making $10 million a year WILL pay more in taxes than someone that makes $30,000.

 

[cbirch2]

Statistics also show the more time you spend being brainwashed, the more likely you will be to agree with the brainwasher. Well isn't THAT convenient.

Also, you laugh at historical fact. Not surprised, liberals won't believe their damn lying eyes if it does not agree with party line.

So because the soviet union existed in the 20th century, every liberal from this point forward is trying to steal money? Insanity.

Is not one of the basic tenets of the left that taxes must be raised?

Hint: Yes, it is.

Again, hes just proposed a 4% raise on the top tax bracket. SOCIALISM!!!

You have offered no reasoning to show he would be satisfied with that amount.

I, however, have offered reasoning to show that he would not and would indeed seek to raise it again and yet again.

Again, you just keep proving my point. I wish republicans in public would argue like you are now, because it just keeps showing how biased you are.

You dont like obama so you project all your fears upon him. You assume that if he could, he would come and take all of your money, gold, and guns. Its a paranoid fantasy of ignorant lifelong conservatives that has absolutely no basis in reality.