Concealed Handgun Permit Holder Stops Mass Public Shooting In Brownsburg, Indiana

[beautress]

guns are a good thing!

from the article:

“This tragic event could have been much more disastrous. So, victim three not only saved victim two’s life, but he saved potentially the lives of many others,” BPD Capt. Jennifer Barrett

Concealed Handgun Permit Holder Stops Mass Public Shooting in Brownsburg, Indiana - Crime Prevention Research Center

Here is another example where police have said that if it wasn't for the presence of a legal concealed handgun permit holder many others could have been killed. Fortunately, one of the people wounded in the shooting had a permitted concealed handgun and was able to then get out of his car and...

crimeresearch.org

Good for victim 3 who saved lives against a mass murderer taking advantage of law and order.

 

[Picaro]

And the vast majority of those statistics involve gun owners that know how to use their weapons. Almost none of those who successfully fire them in public will involve somebody who has never been trained and never fired their weapons before.

Texas has requirements for concealed carry that work just fine.


An eligible person wishing to obtain an LTC (formerly CHL) must take a State-set instruction course taught by a licensed instructor for a minimum of 4 hours and a maximum of 6 hours, covering topics such as applicable laws, conflict resolution, criminal/civil liability, and handgun safety, and pass a practical qualification at a firing range with a handgun.[7] The caliber requirement was repealed on September 1, 2017.[9] Such courses vary in cost, but are typically around $100–$125 for new applicants (usually not including the cost of ammunition and other shooting supplies; the practical qualification requires firing 50 rounds of ammunition). They may then apply, providing a picture, fingerprints, other documentation, and a $40 application fee[10] (as of September 1, 2017; previously $140 and $70 for renewals), – active and discharged military are eligible for discounts – to the DPS, which processes the application, runs a federal background check, and if all is well, issues the permit. Permits are valid for five years, and allow resident holders to carry in 29 other states (nonresidents may carry in all but four of those),[11] due to reciprocity agreements.[12] Discounted LTC fees vary from $0 for active duty military (through one year after discharge), to $25 for military veterans.[13]

As of September 1, 2019, unlicensed concealed or open carry is allowed during an evacuation following the declaration of a state of disaster, or returning after evacuation, for a period of 7 days, which may be further extended by the governor. Carrying in some otherwise prohibited locations that serve as shelters is also allowed with permission of the owner of the premises.[14]

Also, as of September 1, 2019, the offence of a Licensed to Carry holder entering on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship was redacted from Texas Penal Code Sections 46.035(b). A church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship must have 30.06 and 30.07 signs posted to prevent carrying on their premises.[15]Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

...

Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Requiring training and education in no way hinders the rights of those eligible to carry in public, concealed or open. They are just common sense in modern times. States are free to make their own requirements and regulations. Feel free to leave them at home if you don't like the rules. In Texas, which is hardly a restrictive state, when you read about somebody licensed for carrying legally, concealed or open, preventing a crime or whaterver, you're reading about somebody who had to pass a training and safety course first.

Then you would be fine if you weren't allowed to vote without taking a Test before you were allowed to vote...with the fee required to pay for that test...right?

Any fee, tax or Literacy style test on the exercise of a Right is an infringement on the exercise of that Right that can easily become so abusive as to make that Right non-existent.......so sorry...mandatory training needs to be stopped since it is unConstitutional.

I'm all for literacy and civics tests. And, there is nothing 'unconstitutional' about mandatory training, for anything; all that noise is just variations of assorted commie ACLU and libertoon propaganda, two sides of the same coin..

 

[Picaro]

And the vast majority of those statistics involve gun owners that know how to use their weapons. Almost none of those who successfully fire them in public will involve somebody who has never been trained and never fired their weapons before.

Texas has requirements for concealed carry that work just fine.


An eligible person wishing to obtain an LTC (formerly CHL) must take a State-set instruction course taught by a licensed instructor for a minimum of 4 hours and a maximum of 6 hours, covering topics such as applicable laws, conflict resolution, criminal/civil liability, and handgun safety, and pass a practical qualification at a firing range with a handgun.[7] The caliber requirement was repealed on September 1, 2017.[9] Such courses vary in cost, but are typically around $100–$125 for new applicants (usually not including the cost of ammunition and other shooting supplies; the practical qualification requires firing 50 rounds of ammunition). They may then apply, providing a picture, fingerprints, other documentation, and a $40 application fee[10] (as of September 1, 2017; previously $140 and $70 for renewals), – active and discharged military are eligible for discounts – to the DPS, which processes the application, runs a federal background check, and if all is well, issues the permit. Permits are valid for five years, and allow resident holders to carry in 29 other states (nonresidents may carry in all but four of those),[11] due to reciprocity agreements.[12] Discounted LTC fees vary from $0 for active duty military (through one year after discharge), to $25 for military veterans.[13]

As of September 1, 2019, unlicensed concealed or open carry is allowed during an evacuation following the declaration of a state of disaster, or returning after evacuation, for a period of 7 days, which may be further extended by the governor. Carrying in some otherwise prohibited locations that serve as shelters is also allowed with permission of the owner of the premises.[14]

Also, as of September 1, 2019, the offence of a Licensed to Carry holder entering on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship was redacted from Texas Penal Code Sections 46.035(b). A church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship must have 30.06 and 30.07 signs posted to prevent carrying on their premises.[15]Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

...

Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Requiring training and education in no way hinders the rights of those eligible to carry in public, concealed or open. They are just common sense in modern times. States are free to make their own requirements and regulations. Feel free to leave them at home if you don't like the rules. In Texas, which is hardly a restrictive state, when you read about somebody licensed for carrying legally, concealed or open, preventing a crime or whaterver, you're reading about somebody who had to pass a training and safety course first.

And, why can that not apply to heavier weapons, such as M249s and the like?

Most of us DO NOT mind a training requirement.

It's coming.

Texas has been clawing back 1930s bullshit gun laws for decades and we are finally making some serious headway.

We've always had open and concealed carry here; it was just consistent with the Founder's era, is all; they left it to the states to decide which weapons were legal and who could carry them around town. Black powder weapons have no restrictions on them at all.

PC 46.02 :Long gun and black powder weapon (including handgun) open carry is not forbidden by law, unless in a manner "calculated to cause alarm."

Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[2aguy]

And the vast majority of those statistics involve gun owners that know how to use their weapons. Almost none of those who successfully fire them in public will involve somebody who has never been trained and never fired their weapons before.

Texas has requirements for concealed carry that work just fine.


An eligible person wishing to obtain an LTC (formerly CHL) must take a State-set instruction course taught by a licensed instructor for a minimum of 4 hours and a maximum of 6 hours, covering topics such as applicable laws, conflict resolution, criminal/civil liability, and handgun safety, and pass a practical qualification at a firing range with a handgun.[7] The caliber requirement was repealed on September 1, 2017.[9] Such courses vary in cost, but are typically around $100–$125 for new applicants (usually not including the cost of ammunition and other shooting supplies; the practical qualification requires firing 50 rounds of ammunition). They may then apply, providing a picture, fingerprints, other documentation, and a $40 application fee[10] (as of September 1, 2017; previously $140 and $70 for renewals), – active and discharged military are eligible for discounts – to the DPS, which processes the application, runs a federal background check, and if all is well, issues the permit. Permits are valid for five years, and allow resident holders to carry in 29 other states (nonresidents may carry in all but four of those),[11] due to reciprocity agreements.[12] Discounted LTC fees vary from $0 for active duty military (through one year after discharge), to $25 for military veterans.[13]

As of September 1, 2019, unlicensed concealed or open carry is allowed during an evacuation following the declaration of a state of disaster, or returning after evacuation, for a period of 7 days, which may be further extended by the governor. Carrying in some otherwise prohibited locations that serve as shelters is also allowed with permission of the owner of the premises.[14]

Also, as of September 1, 2019, the offence of a Licensed to Carry holder entering on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship was redacted from Texas Penal Code Sections 46.035(b). A church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship must have 30.06 and 30.07 signs posted to prevent carrying on their premises.[15]Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

...

Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Requiring training and education in no way hinders the rights of those eligible to carry in public, concealed or open. They are just common sense in modern times. States are free to make their own requirements and regulations. Feel free to leave them at home if you don't like the rules. In Texas, which is hardly a restrictive state, when you read about somebody licensed for carrying legally, concealed or open, preventing a crime or whaterver, you're reading about somebody who had to pass a training and safety course first.

Almost none of those who successfully fire them in public will involve somebody who has never been trained and never fired their weapons before.

That is just factually untrue........all of the self defense studies with guns are studies that exclude the police and military. That means they are civilians with guns...and you can't show that the majority of those defensive gun uses involve people who have actually had training to use those guns........

If you don't mind...could you link to the research that supports that claim?

Show us the stats for untrained civilians being the Big Heroes Of The Day.

According to the CDC Americans use their legal guns 1.2 million times a year for self defense......show us how the majority of those people are trained.....

 

[2aguy]

And the vast majority of those statistics involve gun owners that know how to use their weapons. Almost none of those who successfully fire them in public will involve somebody who has never been trained and never fired their weapons before.

Texas has requirements for concealed carry that work just fine.


An eligible person wishing to obtain an LTC (formerly CHL) must take a State-set instruction course taught by a licensed instructor for a minimum of 4 hours and a maximum of 6 hours, covering topics such as applicable laws, conflict resolution, criminal/civil liability, and handgun safety, and pass a practical qualification at a firing range with a handgun.[7] The caliber requirement was repealed on September 1, 2017.[9] Such courses vary in cost, but are typically around $100–$125 for new applicants (usually not including the cost of ammunition and other shooting supplies; the practical qualification requires firing 50 rounds of ammunition). They may then apply, providing a picture, fingerprints, other documentation, and a $40 application fee[10] (as of September 1, 2017; previously $140 and $70 for renewals), – active and discharged military are eligible for discounts – to the DPS, which processes the application, runs a federal background check, and if all is well, issues the permit. Permits are valid for five years, and allow resident holders to carry in 29 other states (nonresidents may carry in all but four of those),[11] due to reciprocity agreements.[12] Discounted LTC fees vary from $0 for active duty military (through one year after discharge), to $25 for military veterans.[13]

As of September 1, 2019, unlicensed concealed or open carry is allowed during an evacuation following the declaration of a state of disaster, or returning after evacuation, for a period of 7 days, which may be further extended by the governor. Carrying in some otherwise prohibited locations that serve as shelters is also allowed with permission of the owner of the premises.[14]

Also, as of September 1, 2019, the offence of a Licensed to Carry holder entering on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship was redacted from Texas Penal Code Sections 46.035(b). A church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship must have 30.06 and 30.07 signs posted to prevent carrying on their premises.[15]Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

...

Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Requiring training and education in no way hinders the rights of those eligible to carry in public, concealed or open. They are just common sense in modern times. States are free to make their own requirements and regulations. Feel free to leave them at home if you don't like the rules. In Texas, which is hardly a restrictive state, when you read about somebody licensed for carrying legally, concealed or open, preventing a crime or whaterver, you're reading about somebody who had to pass a training and safety course first.

Then you would be fine if you weren't allowed to vote without taking a Test before you were allowed to vote...with the fee required to pay for that test...right?

Any fee, tax or Literacy style test on the exercise of a Right is an infringement on the exercise of that Right that can easily become so abusive as to make that Right non-existent.......so sorry...mandatory training needs to be stopped since it is unConstitutional.

I'm all for literacy and civics tests. And, there is nothing 'unconstitutional' about mandatory training, for anything; all that noise is just variations of assorted commie ACLU and libertoon propaganda, two sides of the same coin..

Sorry.....training mandates will be used to keep the poor and middle class from owning and carrying guns. I have a friend who works a lot of hours, and hasn't gotten his concealed carry permit because he can't take 16 hours of time to get the mandatory training here in Illinois....

 

[Picaro]

And the vast majority of those statistics involve gun owners that know how to use their weapons. Almost none of those who successfully fire them in public will involve somebody who has never been trained and never fired their weapons before.

Texas has requirements for concealed carry that work just fine.


An eligible person wishing to obtain an LTC (formerly CHL) must take a State-set instruction course taught by a licensed instructor for a minimum of 4 hours and a maximum of 6 hours, covering topics such as applicable laws, conflict resolution, criminal/civil liability, and handgun safety, and pass a practical qualification at a firing range with a handgun.[7] The caliber requirement was repealed on September 1, 2017.[9] Such courses vary in cost, but are typically around $100–$125 for new applicants (usually not including the cost of ammunition and other shooting supplies; the practical qualification requires firing 50 rounds of ammunition). They may then apply, providing a picture, fingerprints, other documentation, and a $40 application fee[10] (as of September 1, 2017; previously $140 and $70 for renewals), – active and discharged military are eligible for discounts – to the DPS, which processes the application, runs a federal background check, and if all is well, issues the permit. Permits are valid for five years, and allow resident holders to carry in 29 other states (nonresidents may carry in all but four of those),[11] due to reciprocity agreements.[12] Discounted LTC fees vary from $0 for active duty military (through one year after discharge), to $25 for military veterans.[13]

As of September 1, 2019, unlicensed concealed or open carry is allowed during an evacuation following the declaration of a state of disaster, or returning after evacuation, for a period of 7 days, which may be further extended by the governor. Carrying in some otherwise prohibited locations that serve as shelters is also allowed with permission of the owner of the premises.[14]

Also, as of September 1, 2019, the offence of a Licensed to Carry holder entering on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship was redacted from Texas Penal Code Sections 46.035(b). A church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship must have 30.06 and 30.07 signs posted to prevent carrying on their premises.[15]Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

...

Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Requiring training and education in no way hinders the rights of those eligible to carry in public, concealed or open. They are just common sense in modern times. States are free to make their own requirements and regulations. Feel free to leave them at home if you don't like the rules. In Texas, which is hardly a restrictive state, when you read about somebody licensed for carrying legally, concealed or open, preventing a crime or whaterver, you're reading about somebody who had to pass a training and safety course first.

Almost none of those who successfully fire them in public will involve somebody who has never been trained and never fired their weapons before.

That is just factually untrue........all of the self defense studies with guns are studies that exclude the police and military. That means they are civilians with guns...and you can't show that the majority of those defensive gun uses involve people who have actually had training to use those guns........

If you don't mind...could you link to the research that supports that claim?

Show us the stats for untrained civilians being the Big Heroes Of The Day.

According to the CDC Americans use their legal guns 1.2 million times a year for self defense......show us how the majority of those people are trained.....

So your answer is you don't have a clue. Yes, that became obvious when you couldn't answer the question the first time. That's because we all know that permit holders like the one featured in the OP had to have training to get his permit in the first place.

 

[Picaro]

And the vast majority of those statistics involve gun owners that know how to use their weapons. Almost none of those who successfully fire them in public will involve somebody who has never been trained and never fired their weapons before.

Texas has requirements for concealed carry that work just fine.


An eligible person wishing to obtain an LTC (formerly CHL) must take a State-set instruction course taught by a licensed instructor for a minimum of 4 hours and a maximum of 6 hours, covering topics such as applicable laws, conflict resolution, criminal/civil liability, and handgun safety, and pass a practical qualification at a firing range with a handgun.[7] The caliber requirement was repealed on September 1, 2017.[9] Such courses vary in cost, but are typically around $100–$125 for new applicants (usually not including the cost of ammunition and other shooting supplies; the practical qualification requires firing 50 rounds of ammunition). They may then apply, providing a picture, fingerprints, other documentation, and a $40 application fee[10] (as of September 1, 2017; previously $140 and $70 for renewals), – active and discharged military are eligible for discounts – to the DPS, which processes the application, runs a federal background check, and if all is well, issues the permit. Permits are valid for five years, and allow resident holders to carry in 29 other states (nonresidents may carry in all but four of those),[11] due to reciprocity agreements.[12] Discounted LTC fees vary from $0 for active duty military (through one year after discharge), to $25 for military veterans.[13]

As of September 1, 2019, unlicensed concealed or open carry is allowed during an evacuation following the declaration of a state of disaster, or returning after evacuation, for a period of 7 days, which may be further extended by the governor. Carrying in some otherwise prohibited locations that serve as shelters is also allowed with permission of the owner of the premises.[14]

Also, as of September 1, 2019, the offence of a Licensed to Carry holder entering on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship was redacted from Texas Penal Code Sections 46.035(b). A church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship must have 30.06 and 30.07 signs posted to prevent carrying on their premises.[15]Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

...

Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Requiring training and education in no way hinders the rights of those eligible to carry in public, concealed or open. They are just common sense in modern times. States are free to make their own requirements and regulations. Feel free to leave them at home if you don't like the rules. In Texas, which is hardly a restrictive state, when you read about somebody licensed for carrying legally, concealed or open, preventing a crime or whaterver, you're reading about somebody who had to pass a training and safety course first.

Then you would be fine if you weren't allowed to vote without taking a Test before you were allowed to vote...with the fee required to pay for that test...right?

Any fee, tax or Literacy style test on the exercise of a Right is an infringement on the exercise of that Right that can easily become so abusive as to make that Right non-existent.......so sorry...mandatory training needs to be stopped since it is unConstitutional.

I'm all for literacy and civics tests. And, there is nothing 'unconstitutional' about mandatory training, for anything; all that noise is just variations of assorted commie ACLU and libertoon propaganda, two sides of the same coin..

Sorry.....training mandates will be used to keep the poor and middle class from owning and carrying guns. I have a friend who works a lot of hours, and hasn't gotten his concealed carry permit because he can't take 16 hours of time to get the mandatory training here in Illinois....

I love anecdotal stories, it's just that they're meaningless when it comes to states' rights and that sort of stuff. I know this shocks many , but we're just not going to have 340 millionish or so indivdual Constitutions and sets of laws at all levels custom tailored for every individual and their snivels.

 

[2aguy]

And the vast majority of those statistics involve gun owners that know how to use their weapons. Almost none of those who successfully fire them in public will involve somebody who has never been trained and never fired their weapons before.

Texas has requirements for concealed carry that work just fine.


An eligible person wishing to obtain an LTC (formerly CHL) must take a State-set instruction course taught by a licensed instructor for a minimum of 4 hours and a maximum of 6 hours, covering topics such as applicable laws, conflict resolution, criminal/civil liability, and handgun safety, and pass a practical qualification at a firing range with a handgun.[7] The caliber requirement was repealed on September 1, 2017.[9] Such courses vary in cost, but are typically around $100–$125 for new applicants (usually not including the cost of ammunition and other shooting supplies; the practical qualification requires firing 50 rounds of ammunition). They may then apply, providing a picture, fingerprints, other documentation, and a $40 application fee[10] (as of September 1, 2017; previously $140 and $70 for renewals), – active and discharged military are eligible for discounts – to the DPS, which processes the application, runs a federal background check, and if all is well, issues the permit. Permits are valid for five years, and allow resident holders to carry in 29 other states (nonresidents may carry in all but four of those),[11] due to reciprocity agreements.[12] Discounted LTC fees vary from $0 for active duty military (through one year after discharge), to $25 for military veterans.[13]

As of September 1, 2019, unlicensed concealed or open carry is allowed during an evacuation following the declaration of a state of disaster, or returning after evacuation, for a period of 7 days, which may be further extended by the governor. Carrying in some otherwise prohibited locations that serve as shelters is also allowed with permission of the owner of the premises.[14]

Also, as of September 1, 2019, the offence of a Licensed to Carry holder entering on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship was redacted from Texas Penal Code Sections 46.035(b). A church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship must have 30.06 and 30.07 signs posted to prevent carrying on their premises.[15]Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

...

Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Requiring training and education in no way hinders the rights of those eligible to carry in public, concealed or open. They are just common sense in modern times. States are free to make their own requirements and regulations. Feel free to leave them at home if you don't like the rules. In Texas, which is hardly a restrictive state, when you read about somebody licensed for carrying legally, concealed or open, preventing a crime or whaterver, you're reading about somebody who had to pass a training and safety course first.

Almost none of those who successfully fire them in public will involve somebody who has never been trained and never fired their weapons before.

That is just factually untrue........all of the self defense studies with guns are studies that exclude the police and military. That means they are civilians with guns...and you can't show that the majority of those defensive gun uses involve people who have actually had training to use those guns........

If you don't mind...could you link to the research that supports that claim?

Show us the stats for untrained civilians being the Big Heroes Of The Day.

According to the CDC Americans use their legal guns 1.2 million times a year for self defense......show us how the majority of those people are trained.....

So your answer is you don't have a clue. Yes, that became obvious when you couldn't answer the question the first time. That's because we all know that permit holders like the one featured in the OP had to have training to get his permit in the first place.

Sorry......you can't tell us with any accuracy that those who use their guns for self defense have training....you made that claim, you need to back that up.

And again....training mandates of any kind are unConstitutional......just like a Literacy test to vote is unConstitutional. The democrats used Poll Taxes and Literacy tests to keep black Americans from voting....they will use training mandates to keep all Americans from owning and carrying guns.

 

[Levant]

And the vast majority of those statistics involve gun owners that know how to use their weapons. Almost none of those who successfully fire them in public will involve somebody who has never been trained and never fired their weapons before.

Texas has requirements for concealed carry that work just fine.


An eligible person wishing to obtain an LTC (formerly CHL) must take a State-set instruction course taught by a licensed instructor for a minimum of 4 hours and a maximum of 6 hours, covering topics such as applicable laws, conflict resolution, criminal/civil liability, and handgun safety, and pass a practical qualification at a firing range with a handgun.[7] The caliber requirement was repealed on September 1, 2017.[9] Such courses vary in cost, but are typically around $100–$125 for new applicants (usually not including the cost of ammunition and other shooting supplies; the practical qualification requires firing 50 rounds of ammunition). They may then apply, providing a picture, fingerprints, other documentation, and a $40 application fee[10] (as of September 1, 2017; previously $140 and $70 for renewals), – active and discharged military are eligible for discounts – to the DPS, which processes the application, runs a federal background check, and if all is well, issues the permit. Permits are valid for five years, and allow resident holders to carry in 29 other states (nonresidents may carry in all but four of those),[11] due to reciprocity agreements.[12] Discounted LTC fees vary from $0 for active duty military (through one year after discharge), to $25 for military veterans.[13]

As of September 1, 2019, unlicensed concealed or open carry is allowed during an evacuation following the declaration of a state of disaster, or returning after evacuation, for a period of 7 days, which may be further extended by the governor. Carrying in some otherwise prohibited locations that serve as shelters is also allowed with permission of the owner of the premises.[14]

Also, as of September 1, 2019, the offence of a Licensed to Carry holder entering on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship was redacted from Texas Penal Code Sections 46.035(b). A church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship must have 30.06 and 30.07 signs posted to prevent carrying on their premises.[15]Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

...

Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Requiring training and education in no way hinders the rights of those eligible to carry in public, concealed or open. They are just common sense in modern times. States are free to make their own requirements and regulations. Feel free to leave them at home if you don't like the rules. In Texas, which is hardly a restrictive state, when you read about somebody licensed for carrying legally, concealed or open, preventing a crime or whaterver, you're reading about somebody who had to pass a training and safety course first.

If it's OK to require training before exercising the right to keep and bear arms, is it also OK to require training on the Constitution in order to exercise the right to vote? And if we can put obstacles in the way of exercising those rights, then what's wrong with requiring ID to vote? Is an ID required to prove you are the one who took the gun training?

 

[Levant]

Most of us DO NOT mind a training requirement.

It's coming.

Texas has been clawing back 1930s bullshit gun laws for decades and we are finally making some serious headway.

Then most of YOU do not support the right to keep and bear arms. There is no training requirement to exercise inalienable rights. PERIOD.

 

[Picaro]

And the vast majority of those statistics involve gun owners that know how to use their weapons. Almost none of those who successfully fire them in public will involve somebody who has never been trained and never fired their weapons before.

Texas has requirements for concealed carry that work just fine.


An eligible person wishing to obtain an LTC (formerly CHL) must take a State-set instruction course taught by a licensed instructor for a minimum of 4 hours and a maximum of 6 hours, covering topics such as applicable laws, conflict resolution, criminal/civil liability, and handgun safety, and pass a practical qualification at a firing range with a handgun.[7] The caliber requirement was repealed on September 1, 2017.[9] Such courses vary in cost, but are typically around $100–$125 for new applicants (usually not including the cost of ammunition and other shooting supplies; the practical qualification requires firing 50 rounds of ammunition). They may then apply, providing a picture, fingerprints, other documentation, and a $40 application fee[10] (as of September 1, 2017; previously $140 and $70 for renewals), – active and discharged military are eligible for discounts – to the DPS, which processes the application, runs a federal background check, and if all is well, issues the permit. Permits are valid for five years, and allow resident holders to carry in 29 other states (nonresidents may carry in all but four of those),[11] due to reciprocity agreements.[12] Discounted LTC fees vary from $0 for active duty military (through one year after discharge), to $25 for military veterans.[13]

As of September 1, 2019, unlicensed concealed or open carry is allowed during an evacuation following the declaration of a state of disaster, or returning after evacuation, for a period of 7 days, which may be further extended by the governor. Carrying in some otherwise prohibited locations that serve as shelters is also allowed with permission of the owner of the premises.[14]

Also, as of September 1, 2019, the offence of a Licensed to Carry holder entering on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship was redacted from Texas Penal Code Sections 46.035(b). A church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship must have 30.06 and 30.07 signs posted to prevent carrying on their premises.[15]Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

...

Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Requiring training and education in no way hinders the rights of those eligible to carry in public, concealed or open. They are just common sense in modern times. States are free to make their own requirements and regulations. Feel free to leave them at home if you don't like the rules. In Texas, which is hardly a restrictive state, when you read about somebody licensed for carrying legally, concealed or open, preventing a crime or whaterver, you're reading about somebody who had to pass a training and safety course first.

If it's OK to require training before exercising the right to keep and bear arms, is it also OK to require training on the Constitution in order to exercise the right to vote? And if we can put obstacles in the way of exercising those rights, then what's wrong with requiring ID to vote? Is an ID required to prove you are the one who took the gun training?

Already addressed that; a literacy test and civics test are fine with me; if somebody cant' pass both and have no medical reason or handicap that prevents them from doing so they shouldn't be allowed to vote. I don't have any problem with voter ID, either. If they can't it means they don't give enough of a crap to bother with such simple requirements.

 

[Picaro]

And the vast majority of those statistics involve gun owners that know how to use their weapons. Almost none of those who successfully fire them in public will involve somebody who has never been trained and never fired their weapons before.

Texas has requirements for concealed carry that work just fine.


An eligible person wishing to obtain an LTC (formerly CHL) must take a State-set instruction course taught by a licensed instructor for a minimum of 4 hours and a maximum of 6 hours, covering topics such as applicable laws, conflict resolution, criminal/civil liability, and handgun safety, and pass a practical qualification at a firing range with a handgun.[7] The caliber requirement was repealed on September 1, 2017.[9] Such courses vary in cost, but are typically around $100–$125 for new applicants (usually not including the cost of ammunition and other shooting supplies; the practical qualification requires firing 50 rounds of ammunition). They may then apply, providing a picture, fingerprints, other documentation, and a $40 application fee[10] (as of September 1, 2017; previously $140 and $70 for renewals), – active and discharged military are eligible for discounts – to the DPS, which processes the application, runs a federal background check, and if all is well, issues the permit. Permits are valid for five years, and allow resident holders to carry in 29 other states (nonresidents may carry in all but four of those),[11] due to reciprocity agreements.[12] Discounted LTC fees vary from $0 for active duty military (through one year after discharge), to $25 for military veterans.[13]

As of September 1, 2019, unlicensed concealed or open carry is allowed during an evacuation following the declaration of a state of disaster, or returning after evacuation, for a period of 7 days, which may be further extended by the governor. Carrying in some otherwise prohibited locations that serve as shelters is also allowed with permission of the owner of the premises.[14]

Also, as of September 1, 2019, the offence of a Licensed to Carry holder entering on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship was redacted from Texas Penal Code Sections 46.035(b). A church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship must have 30.06 and 30.07 signs posted to prevent carrying on their premises.[15]Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

...

Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Requiring training and education in no way hinders the rights of those eligible to carry in public, concealed or open. They are just common sense in modern times. States are free to make their own requirements and regulations. Feel free to leave them at home if you don't like the rules. In Texas, which is hardly a restrictive state, when you read about somebody licensed for carrying legally, concealed or open, preventing a crime or whaterver, you're reading about somebody who had to pass a training and safety course first.

Almost none of those who successfully fire them in public will involve somebody who has never been trained and never fired their weapons before.

That is just factually untrue........all of the self defense studies with guns are studies that exclude the police and military. That means they are civilians with guns...and you can't show that the majority of those defensive gun uses involve people who have actually had training to use those guns........

If you don't mind...could you link to the research that supports that claim?

Show us the stats for untrained civilians being the Big Heroes Of The Day.

According to the CDC Americans use their legal guns 1.2 million times a year for self defense......show us how the majority of those people are trained.....

So your answer is you don't have a clue. Yes, that became obvious when you couldn't answer the question the first time. That's because we all know that permit holders like the one featured in the OP had to have training to get his permit in the first place.

Sorry......you can't tell us with any accuracy that those who use their guns for self defense have training....you made that claim, you need to back that up.

And again....training mandates of any kind are unConstitutional......just like a Literacy test to vote is unConstitutional. The democrats used Poll Taxes and Literacy tests to keep black Americans from voting....they will use training mandates to keep all Americans from owning and carrying guns.

Sorry, but you just don't want to admit I'm right and you're wrong about untrained people running around putting down dangerous gun thugs, and you can't provide a shred of evidence that is the case. You can't back up your claim, even your own OP or any other of yours can back yours up, and in fact backs mine up. Judges opinions change with the wind and who puts them on the bench. They're individual whims, just like your opinions of what is 'constitutional' and what isn't are just that..

 

[Doc7505]

WATCH: Rioters Outside Portland Federal Building Set Comrade Ablaze

Rioters accidentally set one of their own on fire Wednesday in yet another night of Portland, Oregon, rioting, which has spanned weeks.

www.breitbart.com

 

[2aguy]

And the vast majority of those statistics involve gun owners that know how to use their weapons. Almost none of those who successfully fire them in public will involve somebody who has never been trained and never fired their weapons before.

Texas has requirements for concealed carry that work just fine.


An eligible person wishing to obtain an LTC (formerly CHL) must take a State-set instruction course taught by a licensed instructor for a minimum of 4 hours and a maximum of 6 hours, covering topics such as applicable laws, conflict resolution, criminal/civil liability, and handgun safety, and pass a practical qualification at a firing range with a handgun.[7] The caliber requirement was repealed on September 1, 2017.[9] Such courses vary in cost, but are typically around $100–$125 for new applicants (usually not including the cost of ammunition and other shooting supplies; the practical qualification requires firing 50 rounds of ammunition). They may then apply, providing a picture, fingerprints, other documentation, and a $40 application fee[10] (as of September 1, 2017; previously $140 and $70 for renewals), – active and discharged military are eligible for discounts – to the DPS, which processes the application, runs a federal background check, and if all is well, issues the permit. Permits are valid for five years, and allow resident holders to carry in 29 other states (nonresidents may carry in all but four of those),[11] due to reciprocity agreements.[12] Discounted LTC fees vary from $0 for active duty military (through one year after discharge), to $25 for military veterans.[13]

As of September 1, 2019, unlicensed concealed or open carry is allowed during an evacuation following the declaration of a state of disaster, or returning after evacuation, for a period of 7 days, which may be further extended by the governor. Carrying in some otherwise prohibited locations that serve as shelters is also allowed with permission of the owner of the premises.[14]

Also, as of September 1, 2019, the offence of a Licensed to Carry holder entering on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship was redacted from Texas Penal Code Sections 46.035(b). A church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship must have 30.06 and 30.07 signs posted to prevent carrying on their premises.[15]Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

...

Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Requiring training and education in no way hinders the rights of those eligible to carry in public, concealed or open. They are just common sense in modern times. States are free to make their own requirements and regulations. Feel free to leave them at home if you don't like the rules. In Texas, which is hardly a restrictive state, when you read about somebody licensed for carrying legally, concealed or open, preventing a crime or whaterver, you're reading about somebody who had to pass a training and safety course first.

Almost none of those who successfully fire them in public will involve somebody who has never been trained and never fired their weapons before.

That is just factually untrue........all of the self defense studies with guns are studies that exclude the police and military. That means they are civilians with guns...and you can't show that the majority of those defensive gun uses involve people who have actually had training to use those guns........

If you don't mind...could you link to the research that supports that claim?

Show us the stats for untrained civilians being the Big Heroes Of The Day.

According to the CDC Americans use their legal guns 1.2 million times a year for self defense......show us how the majority of those people are trained.....

So your answer is you don't have a clue. Yes, that became obvious when you couldn't answer the question the first time. That's because we all know that permit holders like the one featured in the OP had to have training to get his permit in the first place.

Sorry......you can't tell us with any accuracy that those who use their guns for self defense have training....you made that claim, you need to back that up.

And again....training mandates of any kind are unConstitutional......just like a Literacy test to vote is unConstitutional. The democrats used Poll Taxes and Literacy tests to keep black Americans from voting....they will use training mandates to keep all Americans from owning and carrying guns.

Sorry, but you just don't want to admit I'm right and you're wrong about untrained people running around putting down dangerous gun thugs, and you can't provide a shred of evidence that is the case. You can't back up your claim, even your own OP or any other of yours can back yours up, and in fact backs mine up. Judges opinions change with the wind and who puts them on the bench. They're individual whims, just like your opinions of what is 'constitutional' and what isn't are just that..

I'm not wrong, you are.........mandatory training will be just one more way they keep the poor and middle class from owning and carrying guns for self defense. You can't show that those people who use their guns are trained ....you just can't....I can list the actual stories of people using their guns and from those stories you can see these people are not trained....they are normal people who own guns and use them effectively to stop violent criminals.....they are not Navy SEALs or members of SWAT teams. Since the majority of criminals run away when confronted by armed citizens.......or surrender, and only the dumbest of dumb criminals actually attack a law abiding citizen who is pointing a gun at them, most attacks do not result in people having to shoot the thug.

Mandatory training is unConstitutional, the same way a Literacy test is unConstitutional......