Concealed Carrier holds driver at gunpoint after he hits 7 year old

[MikeK]

How has NRA opposition made it easier to get gun permits in New Jersey, New York and California.....made it easier?

Without opposition from NRA and similar influences it would be impossible -- not just difficult. And that applies to many other states, not only New Jersey. And I think you know that.

 

[Eloy]

The parents of the slaughtered children in Sandy Hook will get no comfort from your statistic.

He wasn't a licensed gun holder. He killed his mother--stole her guns, and then went on his rampage.

You don't get it. It would not have happened had his mother not been a gun-lover.

 

[MikeK]

I will use Europe because all the anti gunners use Europe and Australia and Japan to show what they want here....

There is no European nation whose civilian firearms access orientation compares with the U.S. What the anti-gunners have to say about Europe, Australia and Japan have nothing to do with the thrust of this discussion, which is establishing a training requirement for CCW.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You don't get it. It would not have happened had his mother not been a gun-lover.

Okay, so how would it have been prevented????

 

[MikeK]

You yourself posted about trying to get a gun permit in New Jersey and New York...seriously, they can't make it impossible? Even John Stossel couldn't get a permit.......and you post about those two states....? Now try that on a national level...with what you want to mandate....

Where do you get the idea that I want to make it harder to obtain a CCW? I've repeatedly made it clear I'd like to see a training requirement replace many of the extraneous requirements presently in effect in places like New Jersey.

I want to see the requirement for CCW limited to a clean background and completion of a minimal training course and competence test. By minimal I mean one that anyone who cannot pass should not be allowed to carry a gun.

 

[MikeK]

Did you see the story of the woman in New Jersey that I posted last night....she has a legal carry permit and had guns unloaded and locked in her trunk....the New Jersey trooper arrested her because he claimed she had a single bullet on the floor of her back seat...she is now facing a life ruining legal process.......anti gunners cannot be trusted.....

No. I didn't. But I'm not surprised. New Jersey Gun laws are beyond repressive. They are absurdly so. In New Jersey a bb-gun is a firearm, so is a slingshot. There are many firearm laws in New Jersey that need to be changed but right now I am focused on the CCW requirements.

I want to see a lot more responsible citizens not only armed but entirely competent in the use and handling of their guns -- not only in New Jersey but all over the U.S. Because whether or not you agree the time is coming when armed citizens will be necessary to prevent what is happening in Europe from happening here. And it is equally important for those citizens to not only be armed but to be competently armed.

 

[Eloy]

You don't get it. It would not have happened had his mother not been a gun-lover.

Okay, so how would it have been prevented????

Gun control.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Gun control.

Gun Control? Who has more gun control than that state? All the guns were purchased by the mother legally.

 

[Vastator]

Gun control.

Gun Control? Who has more gun control than that state? All the guns were purchased by the mother legally.

He's using the typical liberal tactic of "blaming the victim". The mother was murdered, and had her guns stolen. Therefore its the murder victims fault...

 

[Eloy]

Gun control.

Gun Control? Who has more gun control than that state? All the guns were purchased by the mother legally.

There cannot be proper gun control if it is left to individual states when firearms can bleed from one place to the next. What is needed is federal gun control.

 

[Eloy]

Gun control.

Gun Control? Who has more gun control than that state? All the guns were purchased by the mother legally.

He's using the typical liberal tactic of "blaming the victim". The mother was murdered, and had her guns stolen. Therefore its the murder victims fault...

Indeed, she was a gun nutcase with an arsenal at home and she brought her mentally deranged son to firing ranges.

 

[2aguy]

Did you see the story of the woman in New Jersey that I posted last night....she has a legal carry permit and had guns unloaded and locked in her trunk....the New Jersey trooper arrested her because he claimed she had a single bullet on the floor of her back seat...she is now facing a life ruining legal process.......anti gunners cannot be trusted.....

No. I didn't. But I'm not surprised. New Jersey Gun laws are beyond repressive. They are absurdly so. In New Jersey a bb-gun is a firearm, so is a slingshot. There are many firearm laws in New Jersey that need to be changed but right now I am focused on the CCW requirements.

I want to see a lot more responsible citizens not only armed but entirely competent in the use and handling of their guns -- not only in New Jersey but all over the U.S. Because whether or not you agree the time is coming when armed citizens will be necessary to prevent what is happening in Europe from happening here. And it is equally important for those citizens to not only be armed but to be competently armed.

And yet when we point out New Jersey and New York and other states that use the very laws you want to deny the right to carry a gun....you want them imposed at a federal level, thinking that federal gun grabbers will be more reasonable than state gun grabbers?

 

[2aguy]

Gun control.

Gun Control? Who has more gun control than that state? All the guns were purchased by the mother legally.

There cannot be proper gun control if it is left to individual states when firearms can bleed from one place to the next. What is needed is federal gun control.

Tell that to France...or Australia.......

 

[Vastator]

Gun control.

Gun Control? Who has more gun control than that state? All the guns were purchased by the mother legally.

He's using the typical liberal tactic of "blaming the victim". The mother was murdered, and had her guns stolen. Therefore its the murder victims fault...

Indeed, she was a gun nutcase with an arsenal at home and she brought her mentally deranged son to firing ranges.

Sounds like a person should have their constitutional rights infringed if they have a handicapped child or child with disabilities, eh?

 

[Iceweasel]

I give it lots of thought as to why people feel they have the right to make any of my rights their business....government is never the answer to any of my rights....

The simple answer to what your declaration implies is, social necessity. In highly populated environments it makes sense to be sure armed citizens have some idea of the hows, whys, rights and potential wrongs of carrying lethal weapons.

This is a shall issue/open carry state. We are not experiencing the problems you fear. You are in a no carry state and base your opinions on that.

 

[2aguy]

You yourself posted about trying to get a gun permit in New Jersey and New York...seriously, they can't make it impossible? Even John Stossel couldn't get a permit.......and you post about those two states....? Now try that on a national level...with what you want to mandate....

Where do you get the idea that I want to make it harder to obtain a CCW? I've repeatedly made it clear I'd like to see a training requirement replace many of the extraneous requirements presently in effect in places like New Jersey.

I want to see the requirement for CCW limited to a clean background and completion of a minimal training course and competence test. By minimal I mean one that anyone who cannot pass should not be allowed to carry a gun.

Yes...you want to give the government complete control over a Right by allowing them to set the standards on how you access that right...and New Jersey, and New York...which you brought up, would become the standard....and then only the favored people would be allowed to pass those tests.....

 

[Eloy]

Gun control.

Gun Control? Who has more gun control than that state? All the guns were purchased by the mother legally.

He's using the typical liberal tactic of "blaming the victim". The mother was murdered, and had her guns stolen. Therefore its the murder victims fault...

Indeed, she was a gun nutcase with an arsenal at home and she brought her mentally deranged son to firing ranges.

Sounds like a person should have their constitutional rights infringed if they have a handicapped child or child with disabilities, eh?

There is no constitutional right for dysfunctional families to own an arsenal.

 

[Iceweasel]

Gun control.

Gun Control? Who has more gun control than that state? All the guns were purchased by the mother legally.

He's using the typical liberal tactic of "blaming the victim". The mother was murdered, and had her guns stolen. Therefore its the murder victims fault...

Indeed, she was a gun nutcase with an arsenal at home and she brought her mentally deranged son to firing ranges.

Sounds like a person should have their constitutional rights infringed if they have a handicapped child or child with disabilities, eh?

There is no constitutional right for dysfunctional families to own an arsenal.

I have long said that liberals should not own guns.

 

[Vastator]

Gun control.

Gun Control? Who has more gun control than that state? All the guns were purchased by the mother legally.

He's using the typical liberal tactic of "blaming the victim". The mother was murdered, and had her guns stolen. Therefore its the murder victims fault...

Indeed, she was a gun nutcase with an arsenal at home and she brought her mentally deranged son to firing ranges.

Sounds like a person should have their constitutional rights infringed if they have a handicapped child or child with disabilities, eh?

There is no constitutional right for dysfunctional families to own an arsenal.

Correct. Its an individual's right.

 

[MikeK]

And yet when we point out New Jersey and New York and other states that use the very laws you want to deny the right to carry a gun....you want them imposed at a federal level, thinking that federal gun grabbers will be more reasonable than state gun grabbers?

You are seeing things that aren't there. Please show me, or link me to, anything I've ever said that implies the kind of laws you've outlined above.

The only gun law I would like imposed at the federal level is a law that will enable any citizen with a clean background who has received training and passed a competence test to be issued a CCW permit.

Without even considering the issue, and the influence of the NRA, GOA, and other pro-gun citizen organizations, you have assumed that government will make the competence test so difficult that only the rich and powerful will qualify. Again I remind you, if government had that kind of ability it would by now have stripped you and me of our guns.

Right now, with few exceptions, the individual states have imposed such repressive requirements that the average law-abiding citizen cannot obtain a carry permit -- in spite of the fact that needing to carry a gun has become more and more necessary. My proposed federal law will eliminate all this arbitrary state-level bullshit and result in many millions of competently armed, decent, law-abiding citizens.

And you may rest assured this Nation is soon going to need them to deal with the kind of menace which is coming across our borders in massive numbers.