Common Sense Crime Prevention... or "How best to organize your community"

[Skull Pilot]

So explain this:

Keep and Bear Arms - Gun Owners Home Page - 2nd Amendment Supporters


Currently, 31 states allow law-abiding citizens the right to carry a concealed firearm through various licensing procedures. Another dozen states allow some form of concealed carry, although such licenses are hard to obtain by honest citizens because of the discretionary nature of the law. One state, Vermont that also happens to have the lowest crime and violence levels of any U.S. state, allows all respectable citizens the right to carry a concealed firearm. Only seven states, which interestingly happen to have some of the highest rates of crime and violence, currently prohibit all forms of concealed carry by peaceable citizens. Inevitably when concealed carry is discussed, the anti-gun side states that such laws will lead to Wild West shootouts and blood on our streets over minor disputes. Yet, in the 31 states that allow law-abiding citizens to carry concealed firearms none of the fears raised by the anti-gun side have become reality. Instead, the opposite has occurred, and the results were lower crime and violence. For example, these concerns were repeatedly raised when Gov. George W. Bush of Texas signed a concealed carry law in 1995. Following the enactment of the Texas concealed carry law in 1995 and through 1997, the number of homicides had dropped 25% compared to a national reduction of 16%. Furthermore, the number of assaults and rapes were cut in half, which again far exceeded the national rate. Overall, the Texas crime rates have dropped to the lowest point in over 25 years following the enactment of the Texas concealed carry law. When Gov. George W. Bush said that he believed the concealed carry law would make Texas a safer place, he was absolutely correct. The same cannot be said for the outlandish scare tactics from the gun control crowd.

OK so the 7 states that prohibit concealed carry have higher crime rates than the 31 states that permit concealed carry. And in fact crime has been reduced by greater than the national average in those 31 states.

Yeah I guess all those guns on the streets in the hands of law abiding citizens is a bad thing.

 

[Chris]

Take out suicides, what do you find?

Bureau of Justice Statistics Key Facts at a Glance - Firearm deaths by intent

People who commit suicide are just as dead as those who are killed accidentally or by others.

 

[Chris]

So explain this:

Keep and Bear Arms - Gun Owners Home Page - 2nd Amendment Supporters


Currently, 31 states allow law-abiding citizens the right to carry a concealed firearm through various licensing procedures. Another dozen states allow some form of concealed carry, although such licenses are hard to obtain by honest citizens because of the discretionary nature of the law. One state, Vermont that also happens to have the lowest crime and violence levels of any U.S. state, allows all respectable citizens the right to carry a concealed firearm. Only seven states, which interestingly happen to have some of the highest rates of crime and violence, currently prohibit all forms of concealed carry by peaceable citizens. Inevitably when concealed carry is discussed, the anti-gun side states that such laws will lead to Wild West shootouts and blood on our streets over minor disputes. Yet, in the 31 states that allow law-abiding citizens to carry concealed firearms none of the fears raised by the anti-gun side have become reality. Instead, the opposite has occurred, and the results were lower crime and violence. For example, these concerns were repeatedly raised when Gov. George W. Bush of Texas signed a concealed carry law in 1995. Following the enactment of the Texas concealed carry law in 1995 and through 1997, the number of homicides had dropped 25% compared to a national reduction of 16%. Furthermore, the number of assaults and rapes were cut in half, which again far exceeded the national rate. Overall, the Texas crime rates have dropped to the lowest point in over 25 years following the enactment of the Texas concealed carry law. When Gov. George W. Bush said that he believed the concealed carry law would make Texas a safer place, he was absolutely correct. The same cannot be said for the outlandish scare tactics from the gun control crowd.

OK so the 7 states that prohibit concealed carry have higher crime rates than the 31 states that permit concealed carry. And in fact crime has been reduced by greater than the national average in those 31 states.

Yeah I guess all those guns on the streets in the hands of law abiding citizens is a bad thing.

Crime rates are a function of societal factors not concealed weapons laws.

Japan has no guns and less crime than we do.

 

[Annie]

People who commit suicide are just as dead as those who are killed accidentally or by others.

Do you doubt they would not have found a way? Discount.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Crime rates are a function of societal factors not concealed weapons laws.

Well since according to you crime is societal, comparing japan to the US is not apples to apples so your comparison of crime rates between the US and Japan is invalid.


JAPANESE CRIMINAL JUSTICE

Ultimately, however, Castberg, like most commentators, places substantial importance on Japanese and American structural and cultural differences. If the United States is a relatively heterogeneous and individualistic society, Japan is a homogeneous and contextual society. A person's identity and place in society is tied to his or her position in a hierarchical group structure. The criminal justice system acts to support and reinforce this structure and these cultural values. Following Herbert Packer's terminology, the Japanese criminal justice system follows a Crime Control Model aimed at supporting group harmony rather than a Due Process Model aimed at protecting the individual from the state. Japan's crime rate, and the structure of its criminal justice system are both the consequence of the basic structure and values of the society.

And I propose that a society where law abiding citizens are allowed to carry weapons results in crime rates lower than the national average. Because concealed weapons laws ARE a societal factor

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

The United States leads the world's richest nations in gun deaths

1998?

Does anyone have any data which confirms the US is still the freeest nation on Earth and that we still have the best shooters on earth?

As long as we have the most guns, we should have the most kills.

Never forget that some people richly deserve killing.

 

[Chris]

Do you doubt they would not have found a way? Discount.

Actually this is not true.

Only a small percentage of people who try to poison themselves succeed. 90% of people who try to kill themselves with guns succeed.

Having a gun in the house makes it easy for a depressed teenager or an angry spouse or a child who finds a gun to kill themselves or others.

 

[Annie]

Actually this is not true.

Only a small percentage of people who try to poison themselves succeed. 90% of people who try to kill themselves with guns succeed.

Having a gun in the house makes it easy for a depressed teenager or an angry spouse or a child who finds a gun to kill themselves or others.

LOL! Like poison is the only way to off yourself without a gun? Funny that you didn't question those car deaths. How many do you think were suicide/murder by vehicle? That's just the beginning...

 

[Chris]

LOL! Like poison is the only way to off yourself without a gun? Funny that you didn't question those car deaths. How many do you think were suicide/murder by vehicle? That's just the beginning...

Car deaths are a seperate issue.

Guns make killing easier especially when people are depressed or in fits of rage. That is why guns are most dangerous to the people that own them and their families.

 

[pegwinn]

No, you are just lying and now you are lying about your lying and being arrogant.

Meanwhile, the blood continues to flow....

The ol "liar, liar, pants on fire defense" rears it's head. You do know that you are being really predictable right? I mean, trying to oversimplify a discussion to a focus so narrow merely shows that you really ought to have enough sense to be embarrassed.

C'mon Chris, Man (or Woman as the case may be) Up.

 

[Chris]

The ol "liar, liar, pants on fire defense" rears it's head. You do know that you are being really predictable right? I mean, trying to oversimplify a discussion to a focus so narrow merely shows that you really ought to have enough sense to be embarrassed.

C'mon Chris, Man (or Woman as the case may be) Up.

No, you should be embarassed for not facing up to what is an ongoing national tragedy.

 

[pegwinn]

No, you should be embarassed for not facing up to what is an ongoing national tragedy.

Heh.

Nice try me boyo. You've had your ass handed to you by several posters and you have no point to make or solution to offer. As you sit there at the keyboard knowing you cannot form an argument or proffer a solution the lil voice in the back of your head whispers..... Loser.

Man Up.

 

[Chris]

Heh.

Nice try me boyo. You've had your ass handed to you by several posters and you have no point to make or solution to offer. As you sit there at the keyboard knowing you cannot form an argument or proffer a solution the lil voice in the back of your head whispers..... Loser.

Man Up.

Personal insults will not bring back 1,000,000 dead Americans.

As the gun death statistics I posted show quite clearly, other countries do a much better job of preventing gun deaths than we do.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Heh.

Nice try me boyo. You've had your ass handed to you by several posters and you have no point to make or solution to offer. As you sit there at the keyboard knowing you cannot form an argument or proffer a solution the lil voice in the back of your head whispers..... Loser.

Man Up.

Personal insults will not bring back 1,000,000 dead Americans.

As the gun death statistics I posted show quite clearly, other countries do a much better job of preventing gun deaths than we do.

You weren't ‘insulted’ sis... you were merely informed of your severe intellectual limitations... wherein you attempt to mask an anti-freedom agenda as a "Public Health" agenda and in so doing expose yourself as a prattling fool.

You were asked several pages back and you summarily ignored the query regarding why you would be pushing a socialist agenda as a public health concern, when in FACT, Socialism is the greatest threat to public health ever devised by man; wherein Socialism has resulted in more human misery than any other single cause in nature... Socialism is 100% responsible for the pre-mature deaths (Read: MURDER) of Hundreds of MILLIONS of human beings in JUST THE LAST CENTURY, a figure which DOES NOT INCLUDE THE WARS CAUSED BY SOCIALISM which resulted in the pre-mature deaths of HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS MORE... vastly outstripping 'gun deaths' or any other single cause of human pre-mature death; YET you are a jealous advocate of Socialism...

Thus sis, you're not concerned with preventing pre-mature human death... You're only concern is advancing the virulent LETHAL ideology, making you part and parcel of "DEATH" itself... You are an element of the Right-hand of DEATH. You advocate for tyranny... and tyranny alone; and sis... Death is far preferable to life without liberty, a fact which you are intellectually incapable of grasping.

 

[Chris]

You weren't ‘insulted’ sis... you were merely informed of your severe intellectual limitations... wherein you attempt to mask an anti-freedom agenda as a "Public Health" agenda and in so doing expose yourself as a prattling fool.

You were asked several pages back and you summarily ignored the query regarding why you would be pushing a socialist agenda as a public health concern, when in FACT, Socialism is the greatest threat to public health ever devised by man; wherein Socialism has resulted in more human misery than any other single cause in nature... Socialism is 100% responsible for the pre-mature deaths (Read: MURDER) of Hundreds of MILLIONS of human beings in JUST THE LAST CENTURY, a figure which DOES NOT INCLUDE THE WARS CAUSED BY SOCIALISM which resulted in the pre-mature deaths of HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS MORE... vastly outstripping 'gun deaths' or any other single cause of human pre-mature death; YET you are a jealous advocate of Socialism...

Thus sis, you're not concerned with preventing pre-mature human death... You're only concern is advancing the virulent LETHAL ideology, making you part and parcel of "DEATH" itself... You are an element of the Right-hand of DEATH. You advocate for tyranny... and tyranny alone; and sis... Death is far preferable to life without liberty, a fact which you are intellectually incapable of grasping.

You really should be a comedian.

Your posts are hysterical!

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

You really should be a comedian.

Your posts are hysterical!

Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted...

Now go on about your business as if you haven't been thoroughly discredited, propping up your delusion in the highest tradition of the most lethal ideology in human history...

 

[Chris]

Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted...

Now go on about your business as if you haven't been thoroughly discredited, propping up your delusion in the highest tradition of the most lethal ideology in human history...

Keep it up, dude.

You're killing me!

 

[editec]

Keep it up, dude.

You're killing me!

He is?

STOP killing him, PubliusInfinitu.

That's the socialists' job.

 

[Skull Pilot]

He is?

STOP killing him, PubliusInfinitu.

That's the socialists' job.

Or someone with a gun

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Keep it up, dude.

You're killing me!

No sis... I'm not killing you... I'm merely destroying your argument; thus what little credibility you may still enjoy through the least intellectually able amongst us... which is probably limited to YOU.