CDZ College Educations

[320 Years of History]

• Will it end up being that college becomes the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?
• Should college be the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?

While I don't think college should be the only route, I think it is very likely in 15 years going to be the only viable and reliably assured path to a middle class or higher lifestyle in the U.S. The reasons are pretty clear: increasing role of technology and increasing demand for professional services.

Edit/Note:
What you think or what is the quality of graduates colleges produce is not the the topic of discussion here. The two questions above are.

 

[Disir]

Pretty much destroy the middle class now, innit? Legal is outsourced. Can't afford to become a doctor. Seems to me that the elite squad is doing what they can to make sure people don't make money. How cool is that? No social mobility.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

• Will it end up being that college becomes the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?
• • Should college be the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?

While I don't think college should be the only route, I think it is very likely in 15 years going to be the only viable and reliably assured path to a middle class or higher lifestyle in the U.S. The reasons are pretty clear: increasing role of technology and increasing demand for professional services.

Colleges aren't turning out professionals. They are turning out graduates who know nothing. They cannot read, they cannot write, they can not solve simple arithmetic problems. They don't know the basics of history or geography.

What they do know is social justice as they see it.

 

[Jackson]

• Will it end up being that college becomes the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?
• • Should college be the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?

While I don't think college should be the only route, I think it is very likely in 15 years going to be the only viable and reliably assured path to a middle class or higher lifestyle in the U.S. The reasons are pretty clear: increasing role of technology and increasing demand for professional services.

Colleges aren't turning out professionals. They are turning out graduates who know nothing. They cannot read, they cannot write, they can not solve simple arithmetic problems. They don't know the basics of history or geography.

What they do know is social justice as they see it.

It appears that colleges are turning out wimps who have never heard of The Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Students want desegregation and for Goodness Sakes, safe spaces. They want the profs to excuse them from classes and work so they can "demonstrate" instead. Colleges are turning into an expensive farce.

 

[320 Years of History]

I don't care what you think about what colleges are turning out. That's not what was asked. To repeat, the questions are:

• Will it end up being that college becomes the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?
• Should college be the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?

 

[Disir]

That ship sailed when you had college grads unable to find a job and what they could find were the unskilled jobs or under employment.

 

[Jackson]

I don't care what you think about what colleges are turning out. That's not what was asked. To repeat, the questions are:

• Will it end up being that college becomes the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?
• Should college be the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?

If I were a employer, I would look at grades, courses and take my time interviewing each candidate. I would want to see the protestors take a back seat to the jobs available.
When colleges started offering Remedial Reading and Writing classes, we knew it was not a path to success.
The trades are an available career as well as the military career. I'm losing my faith in colleges.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I don't care what you think about what colleges are turning out. That's not what was asked. To repeat, the questions are:

• Will it end up being that college becomes the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?
• Should college be the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?

No and no.

As college continues to devalue itself the ability of college grads to get a job at all will be difficult. The only serious education will be in the post graduate degree program.

 

[320 Years of History]

I don't care what you think about what colleges are turning out. That's not what was asked. To repeat, the questions are:

• Will it end up being that college becomes the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?
• Should college be the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?

If I were a employer, I would look at grades, courses and take my time interviewing each candidate. [/QUOTE]

Red:
Right....Firms that do campus recruiting do exactly that. They have for years.[/QUOTE]

 

[EvilCat Breath]

As an employer and a hiring partner I learned to read an application. Student groups, activism history all mean thank the applicant and say good bye.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I don't care what you think about what colleges are turning out. That's not what was asked. To repeat, the questions are:

• Will it end up being that college becomes the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?
• Should college be the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?

If I were a employer, I would look at grades, courses and take my time interviewing each candidate. [/QUOTE]

Red:
Right....Firms that do campus recruiting do exactly that. They have for years.

[/QUOTE]
Campus recruiting does not extend offers to liberal arts majors. They are still after stem students.

 

[320 Years of History]

I don't care what you think about what colleges are turning out. That's not what was asked. To repeat, the questions are:

• Will it end up being that college becomes the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?
• Should college be the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?

If I were a employer, I would look at grades, courses and take my time interviewing each candidate. [/QUOTE]

Red:
Right....Firms that do campus recruiting do exactly that. They have for years.

Campus recruiting does not extend offers to liberal arts majors. They are still after stem students.[/QUOTE]

That's not the case for the campus recruiting consulting firms conduct for business analysts.

• Business Analyst - Human Capital | Deloitte US Careers | Join Deloitte
  
• Business Analyst | Deloitte US Careers
• http://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/page...oitte-graduate-school-assistance-program.html

Be all that as it may, that still isn't the question.

• Will it end up being that college becomes the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?
• Should college be the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?

The type of major isn't part of the question, whether having a college degree is the only way to middle-class-dom is the theme of the questions.

 

[MarathonMike]

College will not be the only path but there will be less opportunity in the service and manufacturing industries as robotics improves. The internet opens lots of creative options. Liberal Arts degrees will barely be worth the paper their printed on.

 

[oldsoul]

• Will it end up being that college becomes the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?
• Should college be the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?

While I don't think college should be the only route, I think it is very likely in 15 years going to be the only viable and reliably assured path to a middle class or higher lifestyle in the U.S. The reasons are pretty clear: increasing role of technology and increasing demand for professional services.

Edit/Note:
What you think or what is the quality of graduates colleges produce is not the the topic of discussion here. The two questions above are.

As to the first question, It's really hard to say. In my area there is a VERY strong union presence, and thus many (if not most) people are able to find careers that put them solidly in the "middle-class" for our area (ie. with a 2 yr degree one can get a career position at a local mining company starting upwards of $20/hr, with great benefits and built-in $1+/hr annual raises). Also, there is a strong demand for engineers, and management, both requiring at least a 4-year degree for entry level positions. Is this unusual? Probably, but it is what I have first hand knowledge of.
As to the second question:
Absolutely not. I mean really, do you want your mechanic locked out of the middle class? How about your plumber? The contractor that fixes your roof, remodels your kitchen, or builds you a new garage? More to the point, are you willing to pay enough for these things to allow for those folks that do the work to be part of the middle class, or does something need to be done so the cost of services such as these stay relatively low, while allowing those who perform them to be considered part of the middle class? I would hate to think that the local plumber would need government intervention to be considered part of the middle class.

 

[yiostheoy]

• Will it end up being that college becomes the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?
• Should college be the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?

While I don't think college should be the only route, I think it is very likely in 15 years going to be the only viable and reliably assured path to a middle class or higher lifestyle in the U.S. The reasons are pretty clear: increasing role of technology and increasing demand for professional services.

Edit/Note:
What you think or what is the quality of graduates colleges produce is not the the topic of discussion here. The two questions above are.

Not everyone is cut out for college.

If they did not do well in high school then they are probably not cut out for college.

For anyone not cut out for college and if they are physically fit they can join the Army, Navy, USMC, USCG, or USAF.

If they are extremely physically fit they can try out for law enforcement or fire fighting.

The main thing is to work, save for retirement, and then live on your social security.

 

[yiostheoy]

Some jobs are not cut out for college grads.

When I evaluate someone to be hired I ask myself whether they would be a good fit.

A good fit will utilize all their skills, all their education, and all their training.

That's what a good fit is.

 

[oldsoul]

• Will it end up being that college becomes the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?
• Should college be the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?

While I don't think college should be the only route, I think it is very likely in 15 years going to be the only viable and reliably assured path to a middle class or higher lifestyle in the U.S. The reasons are pretty clear: increasing role of technology and increasing demand for professional services.

Edit/Note:
What you think or what is the quality of graduates colleges produce is not the the topic of discussion here. The two questions above are.

Not everyone is cut out for college.

If they did not do well in high school then they are probably not cut out for college.

For anyone not cut out for college and if they are physically fit they can join the Army, Navy, USMC, USCG, or USAF.

If they are extremely physically fit they can try out for law enforcement or fire fighting.

The main thing is to work, save for retirement, and then live on your social security.

I agree with everything you said, except the SS part. Wouldn't it be better to advocate for people to save for retirement outside of government involvement? To use a well known phrase from MLK (with a revision): "I have a dream that one day my children..." will have the ability, and expectation, to save for their own retirement.

 

[320 Years of History]

• Will it end up being that college becomes the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?
• Should college be the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?

While I don't think college should be the only route, I think it is very likely in 15 years going to be the only viable and reliably assured path to a middle class or higher lifestyle in the U.S. The reasons are pretty clear: increasing role of technology and increasing demand for professional services.

Edit/Note:
What you think or what is the quality of graduates colleges produce is not the the topic of discussion here. The two questions above are.

As to the first question, It's really hard to say. In my area there is a VERY strong union presence, and thus many (if not most) people are able to find careers that put them solidly in the "middle-class" for our area (ie. with a 2 yr degree one can get a career position at a local mining company starting upwards of $20/hr, with great benefits and built-in $1+/hr annual raises). Also, there is a strong demand for engineers, and management, both requiring at least a 4-year degree for entry level positions. Is this unusual? Probably, but it is what I have first hand knowledge of.

As to the second question:
Absolutely not. I mean really, do you want your mechanic locked out of the middle class? How about your plumber? The contractor that fixes your roof, remodels your kitchen, or builds you a new garage? More to the point, are you willing to pay enough for these things to allow for those folks that do the work to be part of the middle class, or does something need to be done so the cost of services such as these stay relatively low, while allowing those who perform them to be considered part of the middle class? I would hate to think that the local plumber would need government intervention to be considered part of the middle class.

TY for directly answering the thread questions.

Red:
No. It's not at all unusual that engineer and business manager jobs require a 4-year degree.

Green:
I don't especially have a preference about whether those jobs provide enough compensation to afford their holders a middle class lifestyle. To the extent they do, great; however, that they do pay enough to enable that lifestyle is best left to the forces of supply and demand as it applies to labor.

Pink:
Same answer as "green."

I'll (we) pay what the person demands for their labor. If they perform enough engagements to provide for themselves a middle class (or higher) lifestyle, great. If they don't perform enough of engagements to make that happen, well, they just don't.

Purple:
What needs to be done as goes the price of those labors is to merely allow the laws of supply and demand to "do their thing" in the marketplace.

Blue:
??? Where did the notion of government intervention come from? Have you mentioned that strictly as a consequence of the preceding sentence? If so, okay.

The class of vocations you've identified are ones that lend themselves to one's being in business for oneself or practicing them as an employee at one of a variety of businesses. Undertaking the vocations as a business owner obviously doesn't require a college degree, although it may require governmental certification/license. That certification may be necessary even if one isn't self-employed. Obviously, if one, say, knows what is needed to perform work that an electrician does and one is not duly licensed/certified, one may or may not find customers who'll pay for one's labor, but they likely would not be willing to pay as much as they would for a certified electrician. Aside from providing licenses or certifications, I don't see any role for the government to play.

 

[320 Years of History]

"I have a dream that one day my children..."

Off Topic:
That part of the speech is correctly quoted as, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day..."

Just remarking in the interest of quote accuracy. I'm well aware the meaning and context you intend is not impugned due to the error in citing the words of MLK's statement.

 

[oldsoul]

• Will it end up being that college becomes the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?
• Should college be the only path to a solidly middle-class lifestyle?

While I don't think college should be the only route, I think it is very likely in 15 years going to be the only viable and reliably assured path to a middle class or higher lifestyle in the U.S. The reasons are pretty clear: increasing role of technology and increasing demand for professional services.

Edit/Note:
What you think or what is the quality of graduates colleges produce is not the the topic of discussion here. The two questions above are.

As to the first question, It's really hard to say. In my area there is a VERY strong union presence, and thus many (if not most) people are able to find careers that put them solidly in the "middle-class" for our area (ie. with a 2 yr degree one can get a career position at a local mining company starting upwards of $20/hr, with great benefits and built-in $1+/hr annual raises). Also, there is a strong demand for engineers, and management, both requiring at least a 4-year degree for entry level positions. Is this unusual? Probably, but it is what I have first hand knowledge of.

As to the second question:
Absolutely not. I mean really, do you want your mechanic locked out of the middle class? How about your plumber? The contractor that fixes your roof, remodels your kitchen, or builds you a new garage? More to the point, are you willing to pay enough for these things to allow for those folks that do the work to be part of the middle class, or does something need to be done so the cost of services such as these stay relatively low, while allowing those who perform them to be considered part of the middle class? I would hate to think that the local plumber would need government intervention to be considered part of the middle class.

TY for directly answering the thread questions.

Red:
No. It's not at all unusual that engineer and business manager jobs require a 4-year degree.

Green:
I don't especially have a preference about whether those jobs provide enough compensation to afford their holders a middle class lifestyle. To the extent they do, great; however, that they do pay enough to enable that lifestyle is best left to the forces of supply and demand as it applies to labor.

Pink:
Same answer as "green."

I'll (we) pay what the person demands for their labor. If they perform enough engagements to provide for themselves a middle class (or higher) lifestyle, great. If they don't perform enough of engagements to make that happen, well, they just don't.

Purple:
What needs to be done as goes the price of those labors is to merely allow the laws of supply and demand to "do their thing" in the marketplace.

Blue:
??? Where did the notion of government intervention come from? Have you mentioned that strictly as a consequence of the preceding sentence? If so, okay.

The class of vocations you've identified are ones that lend themselves to one's being in business for oneself or practicing them as an employee at one of a variety of businesses. Undertaking the vocations as a business owner obviously doesn't require a college degree, although it may require governmental certification/license. That certification may be necessary even if one isn't self-employed. Obviously, if one, say, knows what is needed to perform work that an electrician does and one is not duly licensed/certified, one may or may not find customers who'll pay for one's labor, but they likely would not be willing to pay as much as they would for a certified electrician. Aside from providing licenses or certifications, I don't see any role for the government to play.

??? Where did the notion of government intervention come from? Have you mentioned that strictly as a consequence of the preceding sentence? If so, okay.

The class of vocations you've identified are ones that lend themselves to one's being in business for oneself or practicing them as an employee at one of a variety of businesses. Undertaking the vocations as a business owner obviously doesn't require a college degree, although it may require governmental certification/license. That certification may be necessary even if one isn't self-employed. Obviously, if one, say, knows what is needed to perform work that an electrician does and one is not duly licensed/certified, one may or may not find customers who'll pay for one's labor, but they likely would not be willing to pay as much as they would for a certified electrician. Aside from providing licenses or certifications, I don't see any role for the government to play.

It was just a consequence of the preceding statement, nothing more.
What I was trying to get at is that if said vocations do not pay sufficient to attract enough practitioners, the "supply" of mechanics for example will dwindle, but the "demand" likely will not. Therefore the price will necessarily increase thus attracting more practitioners. So, yes market forces would come into play. In the meantime, prices, and thus pay, for those doing the work would likely go down.