Climate Change Science Poised to Enter Nation's Classrooms

[JoeNormal]

Conservatives can't imagine anyone having higher ethics or aspirations than jumping on the ******* gravy train. That's why they see nothing but a big con in all of this.

Unlike left-wing turds, conservatives don't assume people suddenly turn into angels the minute they start getting checks from the government.

You dumb ****, the reason they became scientists in the first place is because they have more intelligence and integrity than the average person.

 

[pjnlsn]

I happen to know that isn't true in the case of the Hadley CRU. It's funded by the MET office, which is a branch of the British government.

So, right off the bat, your claims turn out to be horseshit.

My claim refers to university research. Obviously not all research is conducted by universities, but most of it is.

btw, Keep in mind that the UK has a CONSERVATIVE government - so the idea that they are part of some global socialist conspiracy doesn't sound terribly likely.

Man, you really drank the kool aid, didn't you?

And what's also saddening is that the one who says there *isn't* a vast global conspiracy is the one who's accused of 'drinking the kool-aid.'

 

[pjnlsn]

One's political views have no effect on the validity of any aspect of any scientific work. To think so is, if I might make a personal statement, is ridiculously self-serving. And as a note, very little of the above is even about what is termed climate science, and more about what one reads in the news, and about politicians and politics, which again is not relevant.

The government could exist entirely to only do what you, he who goes by the handle 'thereisnospoon,' want and it still wouldn't mean that the world would have or would not have a certain characteristic, or a certain nature.

Government may have no effect on scientific reality, but it does affect what scientists say about reality. that became obvious with the advent of Lysenkoism in the USSR, and with Nazi racial theories in Germany. IN the modern era government provides most of funding for science which means politicians and bureaucrats decide which ideas get funded and which don't. Anyone who believes their biases don't influence the proces is incredibly naive.

All things influence all other things. But, again, there is nothing wrong with what is called 'climate science.' Certainly not to the degree of global conspiracies or ideas enforced by a one-party state with specialized secret police.

 

[pjnlsn]

Only the politicians at the top are conservatives. The lifetime bureaucrats are all hardcore Marxists.

Right. Got it.

Because most conservative governments hire hardcore Marxists.

Politicians don't hire the bureaucrats. Other bureaucrats do the hiring. It's a like a private club. Once you gain admittance, you're a member for life. Once the left-wingers got control of the club, they made sure to exclude anyone who isn't "the right kind of person." That's also how university faculty works.

Your comments about "conservative governments" only shows how incredibly naive you are about how the government works. As if the conservatives could fire all the bureaucrats the working for the British government the day after an election.

You are hysterical.



Here's a website that discusses funding in Denmark for "climate research." Note that universities are not the source for any of it.

Climate change Funding sources - Danish Development Research Network

I aren't familiar with the unit you are referring to, so can't comment on its ownership structure but it is a fact that most universities in Europe conduct independent research, and determine both the direction of that research and its funding themselves.

That's what you claim, but I'm not taking your word for it.

Again, keep in mind that the UK has a CONSERVATIVE government - hence the idea they are part of some nutcase global conspiracy is not something that is going to convince anyone.

The bureaucrats are not conservatives, so your point is a non sequitur.

To you both, while some people use 'Marxist' as a slur, and the truth of the description is in accordance with such, there are no real Marxists left, at least in western nations.

 

[pjnlsn]

Politicians don't hire the bureaucrats. Other bureaucrats do the hiring. It's a like a private club. Once you gain admittance, you're a member for life. Once the left-wingers got control of the club, they made sure to exclude anyone who isn't "the right kind of person." That's also how university faculty works.

Ha, ha!! This really is priceless - my God man, what a tinfoil hat-wearer you are!!!

It's 100% accurate. Lefties can't imagine that everyone is as trusting and naive about government as they are. They are always incredulous that anyone would ever question the motives of a bureaucrat or a liberal politician. However, there's a whole school of economics called the "Public Choice School" that examines the decision making process that occurs in government and the incentives that government bureaucrats are presented with.

Your comments about "conservative governments" only shows how incredibly naive you are about how the government works.

Oh, absolutely. Because as a journalist I would never actually meet or work with politicians myself, whereas I am sure you spent a lot of time in parliament yourself.

That's even more reason to believe you're naive. Observation of the Washington press corps shows that the journalists soon lose whatever objectivity they once may have had because they form personal relationships with the people they are supposed to investigating, and they also want to maintain their access.

One doesn't have to work with politicians to know that they are a gang of unscrupulous poltroons.

And let's be clear, it's a long thread, and I may have missed something, but the people who also say that climate science is a hoax or a cult (e.g. '...kool-aid') are also the people who seem to know very little about it.

 

[thereisnospoon]

One's political views are irrelevant to whether some aspect of scientific work is valid or not. To say the least.

Oh but they are. In the climate issue, it's nothing but politics.
Look at the proposals elicited by those supporting the theory of man made climate change.
All proposals contain some sort of penalty. Whether they be additional taxation, more government oversight on the business of individuals, more draconian regulations on commerce.

One's political views have no effect on the validity of any aspect of any scientific work. To think so is, if I might make a personal statement, is ridiculously self-serving. And as a note, very little of the above is even about what is termed climate science, and more about what one reads in the news, and about politicians and politics, which again is not relevant.

The government could exist entirely to only do what you, he who goes by the handle 'thereisnospoon,' want and it still wouldn't mean that the world would have or would not have a certain characteristic, or a certain nature.

You want to translate that psycho-babble into English?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Conservatives can't imagine anyone having higher ethics or aspirations than jumping on the ******* gravy train. That's why they see nothing but a big con in all of this.

Unlike left-wing turds, conservatives don't assume people suddenly turn into angels the minute they start getting checks from the government.

You dumb ****, the reason they became scientists in the first place is because they have more intelligence and integrity than the average person.

Intelligence, yes. Integrity? Sorry, pal. Most scientists live and die by government grants. So their 'integrity' begins and ends with who is paying them.

 

[thereisnospoon]

S.J.

No one said the UK is the US, but try to understand the basic point.

Conservative parties right around the world have stated that human acitivity causes climate change.

This is not an opinion - it is a fact.

The only political parties denying climate change are right wing extremists.

And that's your ******* opinion, which isn't worth shit except to you.

No, it is NOT an opinion. It is a fact. You can go and check the policies of the other conservative parties yourself if you like. There's also a thread on this in this forum, which I just bumped for you.

I will explain how things work around here.
You don't get to post "that's a fact. You can go research it yourself".....Those who post facts are required to post links to them. If you don't like it, don't post.
Do you own work.

 

[thereisnospoon]

One's political views have no effect on the validity of any aspect of any scientific work. To think so is, if I might make a personal statement, ridiculously self-serving. As a note, very little of the above is even about what is termed climate science, and more about what one reads in the news, and about politicians and politics, which again is not relevant.

Exactly that - and it is no coincidence that most of the climate sceptics on this board hold such incredibly extreme political views that one is currently claiming that the UK Conservative Party is not conservative.

Such people seem to assume that everyone is as incredibly extreme and biased as they are, whereas in reality most scientists are more interested in science than they are in politics.

I have no problem with people holding extreme political views, but people should be honest about that extremism. If you are so right wing that Hitler starts to look left wing - as at least one poster has claimed - the problem in perspective probably isn't that of the scientists.

Scientists may be interested in science, but they are also interested in getting their work funded, and bureaucrats and politicians are the ones who dish out the money. The later are interested in expanding their power. AGW provided a good vehicle for that, so naturally the bureaucrats send all the funding to "scientists" who conclude that AGW is a problem. Skeptics of AGW receive no funding.

It's as simple as that. Anyone who denies it is either a fool or a liar.

A classic example of this is in the movie "The Right Stuff"....The line "No bucks. No Buck Rogers" is said when the Alan Sheppard character insists the media be permitted into the building to interview the Mercury 7 astronauts.
The statement is spot on.

 

[Saigon]

when i say 'conservative' i really mean the 'Tea Party' too....the GOP has way too many 'moderates' and 'rinos'....accomodating representatives who compromise our principles to 'get along' with the Left....thus moving 'conservatism' toward the bastardized version we see today so much...like in the countries you mention...
.

Within a global perspective, the Tea Party is in no way definining of conservatism. If anything, it's a bit of a dinosaur - and the policy on climate change is defining of that.

I'm not saying that is good or bad, but if aliens landed and wanted an example of where conservative politics are at, I think the UK and Germany are much more typical and middle-of-the-road examples. Both tend to be very fiscally conservative, but more liberal socially.


Really the key element here is that many posters who sit to the right of the Tea Party see anything left of the Tea Party as being left wing. In fact, most conservatives around the world are left of the Tea Party, closer to the moderate wing of the Republicans.

This completely explains why a half dozen posters here look at climate science and see only left wing conspiracy, because from an extreme position ANYTHING is going to look left wing after a while. It's a very distorted view of the world - just as the view of the extreme left is.

 

[westwall]

Conservatives can't imagine anyone having higher ethics or aspirations than jumping on the ******* gravy train. That's why they see nothing but a big con in all of this.

Unlike left-wing turds, conservatives don't assume people suddenly turn into angels the minute they start getting checks from the government.

You dumb ****, the reason they became scientists in the first place is because they have more intelligence and integrity than the average person.

Are you really that ******* stupid? Scientists are PEOPLE you dumbass. They are no more ethical (though they should be) than any other population group. And for your information there are plenty of scientists who are no more than educated idiots. They may have a PhD behind their name but they couldn't hold a real job in a million years. They are basically incompetent in anything save the insulated world of academia.

I've had to deal with way too many of those. What a complete pain in the ass.

 

[JoeNormal]

Unlike left-wing turds, conservatives don't assume people suddenly turn into angels the minute they start getting checks from the government.

You dumb ****, the reason they became scientists in the first place is because they have more intelligence and integrity than the average person.

Are you really that ******* stupid? Scientists are PEOPLE you dumbass. They are no more ethical (though they should be) than any other population group. And for your information there are plenty of scientists who are no more than educated idiots. They may have a PhD behind their name but they couldn't hold a real job in a million years. They are basically incompetent in anything save the insulated world of academia.

I've had to deal with way too many of those. What a complete pain in the ass.

Spoken like an uneducated imbecile.

 

[lukelk]

this is why we are slipping in education and why other countries are laughing at us. yey creation in classrooms!!!!!!!! go right wingers, lets keep our selves stupid and go back to the dark ages

 

[PoliticalChic]

You dumb ****, the reason they became scientists in the first place is because they have more intelligence and integrity than the average person.

Are you really that ******* stupid? Scientists are PEOPLE you dumbass. They are no more ethical (though they should be) than any other population group. And for your information there are plenty of scientists who are no more than educated idiots. They may have a PhD behind their name but they couldn't hold a real job in a million years. They are basically incompetent in anything save the insulated world of academia.

I've had to deal with way too many of those. What a complete pain in the ass.

Spoken like an uneducated imbecile.

Don't you think it's time for you to grow up, wise up?




Of course, your view ascribes a certain honor and repute to the word ‘scientists’ and neglects to remember that scientists are, in reality, merely other folks.

Scientists have families to feed, and face the same temptation to cheat as anybody else.
Our Left-leaning colleagues are simply naïve.

Either that, or lacking in self-esteem, and imagine that their definition of scientist somehow applies to themselves. Pathetic.




Which brings me to this expose from Nature Magazine.



1. Research programmes of the European Commission (EC) have notoriously cumbersome procedures and rigid control mechanisms that have apparently not prevented a criminal syndicate from conducting a brazen fraud that has siphoned off millions in EC grant funds.

2. Italian authorities and the European Anti-Fraud Office (OLAF) in Brussels, Belgium, have confirmed that they are prosecuting members of a large network accused of pocketing more than €50 million (US$72 million) in EC grants for fake research projects.

3. The EC has terminated four collaborative projects in information technology, and excluded more than 30 grant-winners from participation in around 20 ongoing projects. Investigations are still under way in the United Kingdom, France, Greece, Austria, Sweden, Slovenia and Poland.

4. The fraud has been conducted in a "highly sophisticated manner, resembling money laundering", by means of a cross-border network of fictitious companies and subcontractors… having claimed inflated costs, or expenses for non-existent research activities and services, he says.

5. Concerned about the burden of Brussels bureaucracy, several thousand European scientists signed a petition this year (www.trust-researchers.eu) calling for the framework to be "based on mutual trust and responsible partnering". Some now fear that the fraud could hamper efforts to cut red tape. Europe tackles huge fraud : Nature News

 

[JoeNormal]

Are you really that ******* stupid? Scientists are PEOPLE you dumbass. They are no more ethical (though they should be) than any other population group. And for your information there are plenty of scientists who are no more than educated idiots. They may have a PhD behind their name but they couldn't hold a real job in a million years. They are basically incompetent in anything save the insulated world of academia.

I've had to deal with way too many of those. What a complete pain in the ass.

Spoken like an uneducated imbecile.

Don't you think it's time for you to grow up, wise up?




Of course, your view ascribes a certain honor and repute to the word ‘scientists’ and neglects to remember that scientists are, in reality, merely other folks.

Scientists have families to feed, and face the same temptation to cheat as anybody else.
Our Left-leaning colleagues are simply naïve.

Either that, or lacking in self-esteem, and imagine that their definition of scientist somehow applies to themselves. Pathetic.




Which brings me to this expose from Nature Magazine.



1. Research programmes of the European Commission (EC) have notoriously cumbersome procedures and rigid control mechanisms that have apparently not prevented a criminal syndicate from conducting a brazen fraud that has siphoned off millions in EC grant funds.

2. Italian authorities and the European Anti-Fraud Office (OLAF) in Brussels, Belgium, have confirmed that they are prosecuting members of a large network accused of pocketing more than €50 million (US$72 million) in EC grants for fake research projects.

3. The EC has terminated four collaborative projects in information technology, and excluded more than 30 grant-winners from participation in around 20 ongoing projects. Investigations are still under way in the United Kingdom, France, Greece, Austria, Sweden, Slovenia and Poland.

4. The fraud has been conducted in a "highly sophisticated manner, resembling money laundering", by means of a cross-border network of fictitious companies and subcontractors… having claimed inflated costs, or expenses for non-existent research activities and services, he says.

5. Concerned about the burden of Brussels bureaucracy, several thousand European scientists signed a petition this year (www.trust-researchers.eu) calling for the framework to be "based on mutual trust and responsible partnering". Some now fear that the fraud could hamper efforts to cut red tape. Europe tackles huge fraud : Nature News

When did you take your last science class? 10th grade? From your comments, I would guess that you know zero real scientists.

I've known a bunch through physics and engineering courses I've taken in college as well as in various positions in industry. They are at the top of my integrity chart. They tend to be harder on others in their profession than they are on 'regular folks' so peer approved material tends to be accurate and generally free of monetary bias.

 

[Saigon]

Are you really that ******* stupid? Scientists are PEOPLE you dumbass. They are no more ethical (though they should be) than any other population group. And for your information there are plenty of scientists who are no more than educated idiots. They may have a PhD behind their name but they couldn't hold a real job in a million years. They are basically incompetent in anything save the insulated world of academia.

It's interesting that Westwall's argument comes down to - ignore scientists.

 

[westwall]

You dumb ****, the reason they became scientists in the first place is because they have more intelligence and integrity than the average person.

Are you really that ******* stupid? Scientists are PEOPLE you dumbass. They are no more ethical (though they should be) than any other population group. And for your information there are plenty of scientists who are no more than educated idiots. They may have a PhD behind their name but they couldn't hold a real job in a million years. They are basically incompetent in anything save the insulated world of academia.

I've had to deal with way too many of those. What a complete pain in the ass.

Spoken like an uneducated imbecile.

Would that it were true. I could go through life blind and blissfully ignorant such as yourself. Sadly I am very well educated and far from an imbecile. That's why statements like yours so offend me. I live in the real world...unlike you.

 

[westwall]

Are you really that ******* stupid? Scientists are PEOPLE you dumbass. They are no more ethical (though they should be) than any other population group. And for your information there are plenty of scientists who are no more than educated idiots. They may have a PhD behind their name but they couldn't hold a real job in a million years. They are basically incompetent in anything save the insulated world of academia.

It's interesting that Westwall's argument comes down to - ignore scientists.

Far from it. My statement comes down to people are people and no one should be placed on a pedestal because of what they are. That is for religious nutters to do. And finally remember way back in the day when college students everywhere had bumper stickers on their VW buses that said QUESTION AUTHORITY.

Remember that? What the hell happened to you all? You've turned into a bunch of mindless drones.

 

[Old Rocks]

Unlike left-wing turds, conservatives don't assume people suddenly turn into angels the minute they start getting checks from the government.

You dumb ****, the reason they became scientists in the first place is because they have more intelligence and integrity than the average person.

Are you really that ******* stupid? Scientists are PEOPLE you dumbass. They are no more ethical (though they should be) than any other population group. And for your information there are plenty of scientists who are no more than educated idiots. They may have a PhD behind their name but they couldn't hold a real job in a million years. They are basically incompetent in anything save the insulated world of academia.

I've had to deal with way too many of those. What a complete pain in the ass.

In other words, they recognized you for the fraud that you are.

 

[westwall]

You dumb ****, the reason they became scientists in the first place is because they have more intelligence and integrity than the average person.

Are you really that ******* stupid? Scientists are PEOPLE you dumbass. They are no more ethical (though they should be) than any other population group. And for your information there are plenty of scientists who are no more than educated idiots. They may have a PhD behind their name but they couldn't hold a real job in a million years. They are basically incompetent in anything save the insulated world of academia.

I've had to deal with way too many of those. What a complete pain in the ass.

In other words, they recognized you for the fraud that you are.

So says the supposed environmentalist who works for one of the most notoriously polluting companies in the world in a notoriously polluting industry. What was that about being a fraud Mr. POLLUTER?