Class size does not matter

[Quantum Windbag]

It turns out that conservatives were right all along.

Two Harvard researchers looked at the factors that actually improve student achievement and those that don’t. In a new paper for the National Bureau of Economic Research, Will Dobbie and Roland Freyer analyzed 35 charter schools, which generally have greater flexibility in terms of school structure and strategy. They found that traditionally emphasized factors such as class size made little difference, compared with some new criteria:

We find that traditionally collected input measures — class size, per pupil expenditure, the fraction of teachers with no certification, and the fraction of teachers with an advanced degree — are not correlated with school effectiveness. In stark contrast, we show that an index of five policies suggested by over forty years of qualitative research — frequent teacher feedback, the use of data to guide instruction, high-dosage tutoring, increased instructional time, and high expectations — explains approximately 50 percent of the variation in school effectiveness.​

Study: Class size doesn’t matter - The Washington Post

 

[Outback]

They're just trying to screw you with a small one.

Like if a woman tells you size doesn't matter. She's being nice or doesn't know if you might have a small one.

Turns out size does matter. I'm abashed because I haven't any links.

 

[Ringel05]

Class size does not matter

It does if you're the test subject in a sex-ed class.........

 

[Sherry]

It turns out that conservatives were right all along.

Two Harvard researchers looked at the factors that actually improve student achievement and those that don’t. In a new paper for the National Bureau of Economic Research, Will Dobbie and Roland Freyer analyzed 35 charter schools, which generally have greater flexibility in terms of school structure and strategy. They found that traditionally emphasized factors such as class size made little difference, compared with some new criteria:

We find that traditionally collected input measures — class size, per pupil expenditure, the fraction of teachers with no certification, and the fraction of teachers with an advanced degree — are not correlated with school effectiveness. In stark contrast, we show that an index of five policies suggested by over forty years of qualitative research — frequent teacher feedback, the use of data to guide instruction, high-dosage tutoring, increased instructional time, and high expectations — explains approximately 50 percent of the variation in school effectiveness.​

Study: Class size doesn’t matter - The Washington Post

This conservative, former first grade teacher, believes that size does matter...most especially in regards to reading, and having the opportunity to offer students of all levels more individualized instruction.

 

[The Infidel]

Class size does not matter

It does if you're the test subject in a sex-ed class.........

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It turns out that conservatives were right all along.

Two Harvard researchers looked at the factors that actually improve student achievement and those that don’t. In a new paper for the National Bureau of Economic Research, Will Dobbie and Roland Freyer analyzed 35 charter schools, which generally have greater flexibility in terms of school structure and strategy. They found that traditionally emphasized factors such as class size made little difference, compared with some new criteria:

We find that traditionally collected input measures — class size, per pupil expenditure, the fraction of teachers with no certification, and the fraction of teachers with an advanced degree — are not correlated with school effectiveness. In stark contrast, we show that an index of five policies suggested by over forty years of qualitative research — frequent teacher feedback, the use of data to guide instruction, high-dosage tutoring, increased instructional time, and high expectations — explains approximately 50 percent of the variation in school effectiveness.​

Study: Class size doesn’t matter - The Washington Post

This conservative, former first grade teacher, believes that size does matter...most especially in regards to reading, and having the opportunity to offer students of all levels more individualized instruction.

The data from the study contradicts your anecdotal evidence. In fact, the fact that class size is smaller now than it was 50 years ago, and students generally perform poorer on reading tests now than they did then, contradicts it. By the way, data driven instruction and tutoring covers what you are talking about.

 

[Sherry]

It turns out that conservatives were right all along.



Study: Class size doesn’t matter - The Washington Post

This conservative, former first grade teacher, believes that size does matter...most especially in regards to reading, and having the opportunity to offer students of all levels more individualized instruction.

The data from the study contradicts your anecdotal evidence. In fact, the fact that class size is smaller now than it was 50 years ago, and students generally perform poorer on reading tests now than they did then, contradicts it. By the way, data driven instruction and tutoring covers what you are talking about.

Eh, there's enough studies out there to support any and all opinions. It's common sense though if you have to teach students to literally read, you'll experience a higher degree of success in a class of 15 versus 30.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This conservative, former first grade teacher, believes that size does matter...most especially in regards to reading, and having the opportunity to offer students of all levels more individualized instruction.

The data from the study contradicts your anecdotal evidence. In fact, the fact that class size is smaller now than it was 50 years ago, and students generally perform poorer on reading tests now than they did then, contradicts it. By the way, data driven instruction and tutoring covers what you are talking about.

Eh, there's enough studies out there to support any and all opinions. It's common sense though if you have to teach students to literally read, you'll experience a higher degree of success in a class of 15 versus 30.

I wouldn't know, I taught myself to read because the class was too slow. Taking a wild guess though, I would say you would do even better one on one than one on fifteen. That is obviously impossible, so the best thing to do is drop the union backed requirement for degrees and accreditation and put more people in a class rather than reducing the size of the classes.

 

[rdean]

FROM THE ARTICLE: frequent teacher feedback, the use of data to guide instruction, high-dosage tutoring, increased instructional time, and high expectations — explains approximately 50 percent of the variation in school effectiveness.

Gawd I hate stupid. "Frequent teacher feedback": which is what you get with a smaller class size. Same with the others. This had to have been written by a right winger. Tell me Democrats aren't this stupid.

 

[Sherry]

The data from the study contradicts your anecdotal evidence. In fact, the fact that class size is smaller now than it was 50 years ago, and students generally perform poorer on reading tests now than they did then, contradicts it. By the way, data driven instruction and tutoring covers what you are talking about.

Eh, there's enough studies out there to support any and all opinions. It's common sense though if you have to teach students to literally read, you'll experience a higher degree of success in a class of 15 versus 30.

I wouldn't know, I taught myself to read because the class was too slow. Taking a wild guess though, I would say you would do even better one on one than one on fifteen. That is obviously impossible, so the best thing to do is drop the union backed requirement for degrees and accreditation and put more people in a class rather than reducing the size of the classes.

As I said, "opportunity to offer students of all levels more individualized instruction". I was performing my student teaching when my daughter was in Kindergarten, and her teacher scolded me because she already knew how to read and was bored learning the alphabet. Then when I started teaching first grade the following year, and my daughter was also in first grade (at a different school), it discouraged me to see my child continue to not be challenged. I suggested that she be allowed to go to a second grade class during their reading instruction, but it wasn't permitted. Needless to say, I was a very determined teacher that ALL of my students would experience growth. I was lucky to teach in a small school that received special funding to keep first and second grade classes smaller than the rest, and it did have a positive impact. I didn't have to worry about just teaching to the low end of the class, with my focus being that those students would progress at grade level...but was also able to offer enrichment to advanced students, so that they weren't left just doing busy work.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

FROM THE ARTICLE: frequent teacher feedback, the use of data to guide instruction, high-dosage tutoring, increased instructional time, and high expectations — explains approximately 50 percent of the variation in school effectiveness.

Gawd I hate stupid. "Frequent teacher feedback": which is what you get with a smaller class size. Same with the others. This had to have been written by a right winger. Tell me Democrats aren't this stupid.

From the article, not the synopsis:

“Data-driven instruction” may be the least familiar policy of the bunch. Dobbie and Fryer explain: “We attempt to understand how schools use data through the frequency of interim assessments, whether teachers meet with a school leader to discuss student data, how often teachers receive reports on student results, and how often data from interim assessments are used to adjust tutoring groups, assign remediation, modify instruction, or create individualized student goals.”

Doesn't sound like small classes to me.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Eh, there's enough studies out there to support any and all opinions. It's common sense though if you have to teach students to literally read, you'll experience a higher degree of success in a class of 15 versus 30.

I wouldn't know, I taught myself to read because the class was too slow. Taking a wild guess though, I would say you would do even better one on one than one on fifteen. That is obviously impossible, so the best thing to do is drop the union backed requirement for degrees and accreditation and put more people in a class rather than reducing the size of the classes.

As I said, "opportunity to offer students of all levels more individualized instruction". I was performing my student teaching when my daughter was in Kindergarten, and her teacher scolded me because she already knew how to read and was bored learning the alphabet. Then when I started teaching first grade the following year, and my daughter was also in first grade (at a different school), it discouraged me to see my child continue to not be challenged. I suggested that she be allowed to go to a second grade class during their reading instruction, but it wasn't permitted. Needless to say, I was a very determined teacher that ALL of my students would experience growth. I was lucky to teach in a small school that received special funding to keep first and second grade classes smaller than the rest, and it did have a positive impact. I didn't have to worry about just teaching to the low end of the class, with my focus being that those students would progress at grade level...but was also able to offer enrichment to advanced students, so that they weren't left just doing busy work.

My fifth grade math teacher handed out the entire years worth of assignments the first week of the class. I was part of a group that did all the assignments early, and then went on to learn other things. Good teachers make a bigger difference than small classes.

 

[Sherry]

I wouldn't know, I taught myself to read because the class was too slow. Taking a wild guess though, I would say you would do even better one on one than one on fifteen. That is obviously impossible, so the best thing to do is drop the union backed requirement for degrees and accreditation and put more people in a class rather than reducing the size of the classes.

As I said, "opportunity to offer students of all levels more individualized instruction". I was performing my student teaching when my daughter was in Kindergarten, and her teacher scolded me because she already knew how to read and was bored learning the alphabet. Then when I started teaching first grade the following year, and my daughter was also in first grade (at a different school), it discouraged me to see my child continue to not be challenged. I suggested that she be allowed to go to a second grade class during their reading instruction, but it wasn't permitted. Needless to say, I was a very determined teacher that ALL of my students would experience growth. I was lucky to teach in a small school that received special funding to keep first and second grade classes smaller than the rest, and it did have a positive impact. I didn't have to worry about just teaching to the low end of the class, with my focus being that those students would progress at grade level...but was also able to offer enrichment to advanced students, so that they weren't left just doing busy work.

My fifth grade math teacher handed out the entire years worth of assignments the first week of the class. I was part of a group that did all the assignments early, and then went on to learn other things. Good teachers make a bigger difference than small classes.

Well that's comparing apples to oranges in regards to first grade reading. Good teachers can be better teachers with more resources, and that includes, once again, the ability to afford students that extra instructional time that they'll receive in a smaller setting...really, this isn't rocket science, but stick to those stubborn guns and throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

As I said, "opportunity to offer students of all levels more individualized instruction". I was performing my student teaching when my daughter was in Kindergarten, and her teacher scolded me because she already knew how to read and was bored learning the alphabet. Then when I started teaching first grade the following year, and my daughter was also in first grade (at a different school), it discouraged me to see my child continue to not be challenged. I suggested that she be allowed to go to a second grade class during their reading instruction, but it wasn't permitted. Needless to say, I was a very determined teacher that ALL of my students would experience growth. I was lucky to teach in a small school that received special funding to keep first and second grade classes smaller than the rest, and it did have a positive impact. I didn't have to worry about just teaching to the low end of the class, with my focus being that those students would progress at grade level...but was also able to offer enrichment to advanced students, so that they weren't left just doing busy work.

My fifth grade math teacher handed out the entire years worth of assignments the first week of the class. I was part of a group that did all the assignments early, and then went on to learn other things. Good teachers make a bigger difference than small classes.

Well that's comparing apples to oranges in regards to first grade reading. Good teachers can be better teachers with more resources, and that includes, once again, the ability to afford students that extra instructional time that they'll receive in a smaller setting...really, this isn't rocket science, but stick to those stubborn guns and throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I thought that Head Start, pre-K, and Kindergarten was all about teching kids to read. Is it really just a really expensive daycare?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I found this statement interesting:

frequent teacher feedback

That means you can have a successful large class section if you have a mechanism in place to provide constant feedback. That means money for either tutors to supplement the large classroom or money for the technology, such as clickers, online homework systems, or an electronic computer lab stocked with tutors.

These options can work at reduced cost to the school but frequently draw criticism from students.

 

[uscitizen]

Class size does matter in primary education. Not as much in college and secondary education though.

Teachers in primary education need electric cattle prods to maintain order in the classroom.

 

[JohnA]

Class size does not matter

It does if you're the test subject in a sex-ed class.........

does that mean if im the subject i have to have reduction surgery ?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Most parents know that as a child begins to speak they begin to ask, "what's that?". The desire to learn about the world around them is inherent to our species (and even our dogs and cats explore their environment and do so for their lifetime).

Why do some children thrive in an environment where learning is all around them, and others do not?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Class size does matter in primary education. Not as much in college and secondary education though.

Teachers in primary education need electric cattle prods to maintain order in the classroom.

I'd agree with that. It's quickly becoming the norm for freshman level college courses to run at 100+. If the administration offers proper support for the class, and if the teacher is a good one, such classes can be successful.

At the elementary school level I know I'm not sending my kids to a private school with class sizes over 30. I just don't think it'd be humanly possible to maintain discipline even at that level.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Most parents know that as a child begins to speak they begin to ask, "what's that?". The desire to learn about the world around them is inherent to our species (and even our dogs and cats explore their environment and do so for their lifetime).

Why do some children thrive in an environment where learning is all around them, and others do not?

Comes down to who's answering the "What's That?" question. If you tell a 3 year old to shut up every time they ask what's that, I guarantee that kid isn't going to make it in this world. Parents are the key, as they spend the most crucial time of a child's development in contact with them. Parents are always the key.