Sixties Fan
Diamond Member
- Mar 6, 2017
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You continue to change the meaning of the word indigenous to the utter and total dismay to all who are actually indigenous.Lp.
On the contrary, I'm applying it universally. No matter when it happened. No matter where it happened. No matter who it happened to. No matter who perpetrated it.I have with this because you are talking about events truly in ancient history and selectively applying it.
None of the nation’s in those times still exist, neither do the people’s involved really. You are talking about world faiths spanning multiple cultures. With US and Canada, I can see the rationale and agree. These states exist, these states did great harm and as a citizen who’s ancestors had responsibility, I acknowledge it.
So you see the rationale and agree on the need for reconciliation between First Nations peoples and modern Americans and Canadians. But that you don't think this applies to the Jew/Arab conflict because the Jewish people and the Arab people don't really exist? Or they somehow don't count? That's nonsense.
No it isn’t nonsense. What nations still exist that we’re actively involved in conquests? What are Arabs even? (It is a broad term encompassing a wide range of people’s who were culturally Arabicized). Who are the victims? And when? Prior to the Muslim conquests the area was conquered by Christians. Right? The Israelites conquered it from the Canaanites. Shouldn’t that be acknowledged?
Do all Muslims owe an apology for ancient conquests? Why not Christians? Why are they exempt? Should all Christians be held accountable for the acts of ancient monarchies?
I disagree. You can't become indigenous. Either your culture originated there or you are a settler culture. For as long as the cultures exist separately. But there doesn't have to be an inherent conflict between those cultures.When a people have lived in an area for thousands of years they are not settlers or colonizing cultures.
Yes. You can become indigenous. And to define people as either indigenous or settler (a term LOADED with negative association as you well know given the attacks on the Jewish people’s rights in Israel).
First Nations in America - multiple cultures, multiple waves of conquests, and some of the cultures we recognize as First Nations today conquered and incorporated earlier cultures, so e of whom remain as sub branches. Jews conquered earlier people and are now considered indigenous.
The definition of indigenous is grey.
Wikipedia
indigenous peoples, also known as First peoples, Aboriginal peoples or Native peoples, are ethnic groups who are the original settlers of a given region, in contrast to groups that have settled, occupied or colonized the area more recently.
What is “more recently”? What is the exact time span? Why do Jews get a special designation while Muslim Palestinians, many of whom’s roots go back just as far, they simply changed religion, get called settlers and colonizers by you? Loaded terms that imply, whether intended or not, that they have no, or less rights and ties to the region.
Honestly? I want the discussion to not always center on Jews. This thread should have been a discussion about Arab Muslims and their atrocious behaviour. But, sigh, once again got sidelined early on. So instead of discussing how we can influence the Arab Muslims to act with some respect and integrity in granting human rights, we are once again discussing how Jews are just as bad as everyone else.What do you want? A diatribe on how evil and horrible Muslims are? Because that is what it comes down in the end right? Some one has to be demonized to satisfy.
No one said Jews were just as bad. In fact I clearly said otherwise.
Germans are indigenous of Germany. No matter if they left 3000 years ago and settled in Sweden, they are still indigenous from the place they came from, where they originated for the First Place.
And I would like to add to my earlier post in response to yours:
Some religious Jews did become sick and tired of waiting for the Muslim Arabs to change their way of thinking and way of treating Jews and their endless incitement to destroy Israel and kill all Jews.
THAT is where their thinking of not allowing Arabs to live in Israel comes from. It will never be because they will never achieve the power in order to implement it.
On the other hand:
Saudi Arabia....no Jews since the 7th century .
Jordan....No Jews since 1925
Iraq....no more Jews since all had to be lifted into Israel post 1990s
Egypt....how many left?
Bahrain....how many left?
Lebanon?
Syria?
In how many Muslim countries, besides Morocco and Turkey, are Jews still allowed to live in and freely follow their religion and be free from persecution ?
Islam, unfortunately, is a one sided ideology. They have power, they conquer and they treat people as the person at the top decides.
Which is why the Palestinians are leaving Gaza in droves. And so are as many in areas A and B, as they can.
Because the current and previous leaders of the Palestinians only have one goal in mind. Take as much money as they can, keep as much money as they can, and spend it only on what they need.
Just look at how sorry Abbas is that he cannot pay his bills, while he keeps inciting and paying his people to kill Jews.
Going back to the Temple and why Jews simply have to do whatever they can in order to be "allowed" into their most important holy site, when they were not allowed at all between 1948 and 1967 and just as much during the whole time Muslims have been in charge since the 7th century.........
WHY do Jews have to ask "please" let us into our holiest place.
Please, allow us to pray there.
Please do not verbally assault us.
Please do not physically assault us.
Please, live up to the agreements.