Clashes After Jews Permitted to Pray At Temple Mount

[Augustine_]

The Temple Mount should be demolished and the area paved over into a parking lot. When little kids fight over a toy, you take it from them.

Which is why you have no business at all with what happens with the Temple Mount.

By your standards, Kashmir and anywhere else in dispute should be destroyed.

How destructive of you

Kashmir is a large swath of land. Not a stupid, "magical" rock.

And you continue to be totally off about what the war is about.

It is the Muslims who believe they are superior to the Jews, and must keep the Jews as they always had them since the founding of Islam in the 7th century.

As Dhimmis


There is no "rock" to fight for at the Temple.

The Muslims want the whole Temple, all of Jerusalem and the rest of the Mandate for Palestine, aka, Israel.

Jews are defending their country, their land.

Kid stuff. Only in a mind like yours.

They both want the same thing, and their biggest motivator is a stupid rock they think some magical shit has happened on. Get rid of it.

They don’t want the same thing. You should educate yourself on both faith traditions.

I have, they're both stupid, and the U.S. should immediately stop their involvement in that entire area. We are ENERGY INDEPENDENT now! We worked hard to achieve that! And so the Middle East can **** OFF! That was the whole point!

 

[Shusha]

I'd love it if we refrained from calling anyone animals, but....

Its an unhealthy foundation of Islamic supersessionism topped with Islamic Imperialism and colonialism and a sprinkling of xenophobia with a culture of violence against "other".

I will not call them Human Beings

Of course you wouldn’t. That is part of the problem. Neither side regards the Other” as human beings.

Still, the Jews are not using violence to prevent Muslim attendance and prayer.

Nor did the Jews usurp the holy place of another faith.

The first I agree with.

The second, I don’t. Religions build upon preceding faiths and the structures and traditions for both faiths there are ancient.

And none of that makes them any less human beings, and individual human beings at that.

“Othering” (apparently that is now a verb) is a real problem for both sides in this conflict.

I’m not convinced it is true that religious faiths build on preceding faiths and structures. Actually the only instance I can think of is the Christian usurpation of Judaism and the Islamic usurpation of Judaism.

Can you suggest others?

 

[mudwhistle]

v=dlyvIHxDh7Mps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlyvIHxDh7M


Why do these animals believe Temple Mount belongs ONLY to them??

This is why they never should have let the Muzzies have a mosque in the Temple grounds.
They figure they own the place.
All they need is a prayer rug and they own the real estate they pray on.

 

[MisterBeale]

I'd love it if we refrained from calling anyone animals, but....

Its an unhealthy foundation of Islamic supersessionism topped with Islamic Imperialism and colonialism and a sprinkling of xenophobia with a culture of violence against "other".

I will not call them Human Beings

Of course you wouldn’t. That is part of the problem. Neither side regards the Other” as human beings.

Still, the Jews are not using violence to prevent Muslim attendance and prayer.

Nor did the Jews usurp the holy place of another faith.

The first I agree with.

The second, I don’t. Religions build upon preceding faiths and the structures and traditions for both faiths there are ancient.

And none of that makes them any less human beings, and individual human beings at that.

“Othering” (apparently that is now a verb) is a real problem for both sides in this conflict.

I’m not convinced it is true that religious faiths build on preceding faiths and structures. Actually the only instance I can think of is the Christian usurpation of Judaism and the Islamic usurpation of Judaism.

Can you suggest others?

The Judaic usurpation of the Hammurabi code and the traditions of Babylon.

Moses was a plagiarist.

 

[Shusha]

I disagree with THAT too. All people should have the right and privilege to pray there. Including at the mosque AND at a Third Temple, should Jews choose to build one.

The only way to lose that right (temporarily) is with violence and provocation. The Muslims have lost that right.

 

[Coyote]

I'd love it if we refrained from calling anyone animals, but....

Its an unhealthy foundation of Islamic supersessionism topped with Islamic Imperialism and colonialism and a sprinkling of xenophobia with a culture of violence against "other".

I will not call them Human Beings

Of course you wouldn’t. That is part of the problem. Neither side regards the Other” as human beings.

Still, the Jews are not using violence to prevent Muslim attendance and prayer.

Nor did the Jews usurp the holy place of another faith.

The first I agree with.

The second, I don’t. Religions build upon preceding faiths and the structures and traditions for both faiths there are ancient.

And none of that makes them any less human beings, and individual human beings at that.

“Othering” (apparently that is now a verb) is a real problem for both sides in this conflict.

I’m not convinced it is true that religious faiths build on preceding faiths and structures. Actually the only instance I can think of is the Christian usurpation of Judaism and the Islamic usurpation of Judaism.

Can you suggest others?

Essentially, all of them.

Do you think Moses was an original story? Or the son of God? Today’s holy sites were often built on other older ones (sometimes as a means of conquest or control, sometimes out of the belief that it is sacred). The Gods of prior religions are absorbed and appear as angels, demons, and spirits in newer ones. You call it “usurpation”, but isn’t that really just a way of marginalizing any claims those faiths might have to figures, stories and places? Much the same way you say they do to the Jews?

To bad we can’t require everyone to take a course in comparative religion. Maybe a greater understanding and tolerance of “the other” would develop.

 

[Coyote]

I disagree with THAT too. All people should have the right and privilege to pray there. Including at the mosque AND at a Third Temple, should Jews choose to build one.

The only way to lose that right (temporarily) is with violence and provocation. The Muslims have lost that right.

No. Muslims have not lost that right. Only those who violate the peace.

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

Jews...always pushing it.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Clashes After Jews Permitted to Pray At Temple Mount
⁜→ et al,

I generally reserve my comments for topics I clearly understand. This is one of those topics I just do NOT get.

You have two (of the three) Abrahamic Religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) in a confrontation on the Temple Mount; Judaism and Islam. Do not either of these Religions have a leadership to understand that they each hold the same deity in high esteem? Or, are they stuck in childlike dogma? Do they not understand that the three religions are not all that different at the fundamental level? They each have the same Supreme Being and very similar miracle makers.


.... .
Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Coyote]

Jews...always pushing it.

They have every right to pray at their holy places. How is that pushing anything?

 

[Coyote]

RE: Clashes After Jews Permitted to Pray At Temple Mount
⁜→ et al,

I generally reserve my comments for topics I clearly understand. This is one of those topics I just do NOT get.

You have two (of the three) Abrahamic Religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) in a confrontation on the Temple Mount; Judaism and Islam. Do not either of these Religions have a leadership to understand that they each hold the same deity in high esteem? Or, are they stuck in childlike dogma? Do they not understand that the three religions are not all that different at the fundamental level? They each have the same Supreme Being and very similar miracle makers.


.... . View attachment 275841
Most Respectfully,
R

They often say brothers fight the worst ...

 

[Coyote]

I'd love it if we refrained from calling anyone animals, but....

Its an unhealthy foundation of Islamic supersessionism topped with Islamic Imperialism and colonialism and a sprinkling of xenophobia with a culture of violence against "other".

I will not call them Human Beings

Of course you wouldn’t. That is part of the problem. Neither side regards the Other” as human beings.

“ Human beings” don’t incite violence at a Religious site or believe its “ just for them”

Yes. They do. Many people seem to think their particular religion grants them some sort of exclusive status over others.

When you lump all followers off a faith into a non human category, it makes it easy to go further.

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

Which is why you have no business at all with what happens with the Temple Mount.

By your standards, Kashmir and anywhere else in dispute should be destroyed.

How destructive of you

Kashmir is a large swath of land. Not a stupid, "magical" rock.

And you continue to be totally off about what the war is about.

It is the Muslims who believe they are superior to the Jews, and must keep the Jews as they always had them since the founding of Islam in the 7th century.

As Dhimmis


There is no "rock" to fight for at the Temple.

The Muslims want the whole Temple, all of Jerusalem and the rest of the Mandate for Palestine, aka, Israel.

Jews are defending their country, their land.

Kid stuff. Only in a mind like yours.

They both want the same thing, and their biggest motivator is a stupid rock they think some magical shit has happened on. Get rid of it.

They don’t want the same thing. You should educate yourself on both faith traditions.

I have, they're both stupid, and the U.S. should immediately stop their involvement in that entire area. We are ENERGY INDEPENDENT now! We worked hard to achieve that! And so the Middle East can **** OFF! That was the whole point!

We might be energy independent but we are not **** independent.

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

Jews...always pushing it.

They have every right to pray at their holy places. How is that pushing anything?

Unless you have been living under a boulder you know the Muslims have controlled the temple mount since the 7th century. Yet...Jews are gonna do what they do best...push it.

 

[Shusha]

RE: Clashes After Jews Permitted to Pray At Temple Mount
⁜→ et al,

I generally reserve my comments for topics I clearly understand. This is one of those topics I just do NOT get.

You have two (of the three) Abrahamic Religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) in a confrontation on the Temple Mount; Judaism and Islam. Do not either of these Religions have a leadership to understand that they each hold the same deity in high esteem? Or, are they stuck in childlike dogma? Do they not understand that the three religions are not all that different at the fundamental level? They each have the same Supreme Being and very similar miracle makers.


.... . View attachment 275841
Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, respectfully, your take on this is wrong.

This is not two religions having a confrontation on the Temple Mount. This is ONE religion which:

• denies the ethnic and religious history of other faiths
• rejects physical evidence of the history of other faiths
• denies right of access to other faiths
• prevents display of ritual, holy, religious or ethnic objects and writings of other faiths
• demands those of other faiths not to pray, nor to even have the appearance of prayer
• actively provokes people of other faiths with screaming, threats, and intimidation
• uses dehumanizing language about other faiths
• requires other faiths not to restore or re-build or even explore their historical holy place
• demands to have sole control over the holy place
• resorts to violence in a sacred holy place if their exclusive use is not granted
• convincingly threatens all-out genocidal war of annihilation to be perpetrated on other faiths if their exclusive use is even questioned

The OTHER religion does not of these things and, in fact, deliberately denies its faith adherents human rights by international law, convention and by treaty.

There is no mutuality here. There is no "clash". It is one religious faith denying the rights of the other.

 

[fncceo]

you take it from them.

You can try...

 

[USAF 2023]

Jews...always pushing it.

They have every right to pray at their holy places. How is that pushing anything?

Unless you have been living under a boulder you know the Muslims have controlled the temple mount since the 7th century. Yet...Jews are gonna do what they do best...push it.

Muslims have controlled the Temple Mount but since it’s a religious site for both religions what gives them the Right to Forbid Jews to go there?
The answer is...,,,,, Waiting
Typical Goyim non response

 

[Shusha]

I disagree with THAT too. All people should have the right and privilege to pray there. Including at the mosque AND at a Third Temple, should Jews choose to build one.

The only way to lose that right (temporarily) is with violence and provocation. The Muslims have lost that right.

No. Muslims have not lost that right. Only those who violate the peace.

Israel, then, needs access to and use of material means to separate the one from the other. The last time Israel decided to do that, after Muslims violated the sanctity of the holy space to murder people, not a SINGLE Muslim would enter the compound. Not one. That is a clear answer, in my mind.

I believe that if Israel decided to uphold the human rights and treaty rights of Jews to the Temple Mount, Muslims would launch a massive war against them. Do you agree or disagree?

 

[Shusha]

I will not call them Human Beings

Of course you wouldn’t. That is part of the problem. Neither side regards the Other” as human beings.

Still, the Jews are not using violence to prevent Muslim attendance and prayer.

Nor did the Jews usurp the holy place of another faith.

The first I agree with.

The second, I don’t. Religions build upon preceding faiths and the structures and traditions for both faiths there are ancient.

And none of that makes them any less human beings, and individual human beings at that.

“Othering” (apparently that is now a verb) is a real problem for both sides in this conflict.

I’m not convinced it is true that religious faiths build on preceding faiths and structures. Actually the only instance I can think of is the Christian usurpation of Judaism and the Islamic usurpation of Judaism.

Can you suggest others?

Essentially, all of them.

Do you think Moses was an original story? Or the son of God? Today’s holy sites were often built on other older ones (sometimes as a means of conquest or control, sometimes out of the belief that it is sacred). The Gods of prior religions are absorbed and appear as angels, demons, and spirits in newer ones. You call it “usurpation”, but isn’t that really just a way of marginalizing any claims those faiths might have to figures, stories and places? Much the same way you say they do to the Jews?

To bad we can’t require everyone to take a course in comparative religion. Maybe a greater understanding and tolerance of “the other” would develop.

There is a great deal of difference between shared myths and stories, commonality of human experience, ancestral memories and other growth and development of human civilization, especially in situ, with replacement theology, conquest and the wholesale "borrowing" of the entirety of another peoples's tradition and erasing them and replacing them with your own. Only Christianity and Islam did that. To my knowledge.

Did the Jewish people build their faith on the existing stories and myths? Of course they did. Lots of civilizations have flood myths, and dragon-creature myths, and a single god, and evil women stories. These are human myths. Literally the story of civilization.

That is not the same thing as claiming that the specific writings and stories in Torah are actually your stories (except for the places where the vile Jews corrupted them). I'm not marginalizing Muslim right to have stories, or places. I'm suggesting they should use their own. Not the Jewish ones.

The Muslim claim to the Temple Mount, especially the Arab Palestinian claim, is not predicated on the Night Journey (though that is also problematic) it's predicated on the direct link between modern Muslims and ancient Canaanites and that the stories of Abraham and the early figures in Torah are MUSLIM stories and NOT Jewish stories.

And remember, I am not actually demanding they give up anything. Not a thing. They should be able to access the Temple Mount compound and their holy shrines there. They should be able to come to pray and worship and sing and even play soccer if they want. They should be able to bring their Qu'rans and their holy symbols, and dress the way they want and say what they want in whatever language they want.

And I know that we both want the Jewish people to be able to do the same thing.

 

[Shusha]

As an analogy, think about Mormons, say, claiming a First Nations sacred site as a Mormon holy site. (Not saying they do that. Just a what if). Would you suggest that it is a "shared holy site"?