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I am not trying to raise sympathy for the illegals, although some certainly deserve it, but rather to point out the problems the INS, Boarder Patrol, and the courts will face in trying to deport millions of people.The whole debate over immigration boils down to what can be done versus what we might want to see done.
Suppose the courts would rule that a child born in the US with illegal parents is not a citizen. A lot of kids live on the streets without parents, some live with relatives, one parent, or friends. So if the courts interpreted the constitution in this manner, law enforcement would have to determine the citizenship of the parents who may or may not be living with the kid. If law enforcement stops the kid on the street, then the kid has to have proof of the citizenship of his parents as well as himself. This will never fly.
Expecting the government to control the boarders and remove up to 20 million illegal immigrants is insane. The last thing we need is a bunch new laws that cannot be enforced. We need to take a practical approach to immigration reform starting with protecting our boards from illegal immigration. We need to punish businesses that knowingly hire illegally. Lastly, if we ever hope to get control over the immigration problem we are going have to integrated illegal aliens into our society otherwise they will remain an undocumented phantom subculture that lives on the edge of criminality, doesnt pay taxes, and is a drain of social services.
Boohoo for the kid. There is someone taking care of it. Its their responsibility to prove its citizenship.
I told you the solution,deport the mother and child the instant the illegal born There is no trying to figure out anything. Here is a can of baby formula, see ya!
It's easy for the armchair quarterbacks to declare that all illegals should be thrown out of the country, but for the INS and courts that have to deal with real people its not easy or cheap. Look at the real world problems.
· What do you do with the illegal 12-year-old kid who is living on streets and you dont know his country origin?
· Do you deport someone who was brought to this country as a child and never violated any law?
· What about those that came into the country illegally but became productive members of society?
· If the only breadwinner of the family is illegal, do you deport him and leave the rest of the family to go on welfare?
· Do you deport elderly and sick illegals to countries where they will be no one to care for them?
· Then there is the economic question. Are you willing to work for $4/hr picking fruit, scrubbing floors, other such jobs? Few citizens of this country are. Which means those illegals are going to be replaced with worker making two or three times as much. That will translate into higher costs for everyone.
There is another consideration. The country that you are deporting the illegal to has to be willing to take them. It has not been a problem with Mexico, but if we tried to deport millions that might not be case.
And just how are we going to convince millions of illegals to leave? They are going to leave because they might get caught and prosecuted? That would mean jury trials, defense attorneys, and all the associated legal ramblings. And of course, you are going have get a jury to send Jose to jail even though he has lived here all of his life and claims he never knowingly violated the law because his parent brought him here as a child. No, putting them in jail is not going to work. If they have committed crimes other than entering the country illegally, prosecute them for the crimes, send them to jail and then deport them. The best idea is to penalize the people who hire illegals. That is going to be one of the controversial parts of the bill.I am not trying to raise sympathy for the illegals, although some certainly deserve it, but rather to point out the problems the INS, Boarder Patrol, and the courts will face in trying to deport millions of people.Boohoo for the kid. There is someone taking care of it. Its their responsibility to prove its citizenship.
I told you the solution,deport the mother and child the instant the illegal born There is no trying to figure out anything. Here is a can of baby formula, see ya!
It's easy for the armchair quarterbacks to declare that all illegals should be thrown out of the country, but for the INS and courts that have to deal with real people its not easy or cheap. Look at the real world problems.
· What do you do with the illegal 12-year-old kid who is living on streets and you dont know his country origin?
· Do you deport someone who was brought to this country as a child and never violated any law?
· What about those that came into the country illegally but became productive members of society?
· If the only breadwinner of the family is illegal, do you deport him and leave the rest of the family to go on welfare?
· Do you deport elderly and sick illegals to countries where they will be no one to care for them?
· Then there is the economic question. Are you willing to work for $4/hr picking fruit, scrubbing floors, other such jobs? Few citizens of this country are. Which means those illegals are going to be replaced with worker making two or three times as much. That will translate into higher costs for everyone.
There is another consideration. The country that you are deporting the illegal to has to be willing to take them. It has not been a problem with Mexico, but if we tried to deport millions that might not be case.
We're not trying to deport each and every person ourselves, genius. We're trying to convince them to leave on their own/not bother coming in the first place.
You put a 12-year-old whose parents and information can't be located into foster care until they can be, same as they are now.
If someone was brought here by illegal parents, you send his little hiney back home with his parents. Intentionally or not, he's violating the law by being here. He DOES NOT BELONG HERE. Period.
I don't care how frigging "productive" you think they are. Are they here legally? No? Then they're criminals. Send 'em home. Frankly, I'm amused at this notion you people have of illegal immigrants morphing into Ozzie and Harriet when they get here. Add a few talking animals, and you have a Disney movie.
How many families do you suppose there are where the mom and all the kids are legal, but the father isn't? Be serious.
When did we become "Nursing Home to the World"? At what point did it become our problem to fix everyone else's life problems?
Shockingly enough, Brain Trust, most agricultural workers (the industry in which illegals are most represented) are legal residents, and don't work for $4 an hour. And if that's true of agriculture, it's true of every other industry. Thanks for sharing your fairy tales with us, though.
Are children of illegals NOT subject to the jurisdiction of US law?
slaves were not citizens. They were NOT illegals, but they were brought here against their will. They never came here trying to be citizens and they never took oaths swearing to become citizens, so why are their children citizens?
hello?
Good point. Lets ship them out too!
Are children of illegals NOT subject to the jurisdiction of US law?
slaves were not citizens. They were NOT illegals, but they were brought here against their will. They never came here trying to be citizens and they never took oaths swearing to become citizens, so why are their children citizens?
hello?
Slaves became citizens in the north when Lincoln and the republic fought the dixicrats and the south in the civil war and won. The law was passed so that the southern states who lost could not deny the children of the non-citizen ex-slaves in their states citizenship thus permanently creating a sub-class in the united states of non-citizens who could be abused without legal recorse.
See this is the problem with politics today...people are just too wrapped up in ideology, ignorance, or personal vendettas to just discuss things on their merits. People have to be wise-asses and say shit like I just quoted.
Grrrrrr
"But the federal courts have never specifically addressed the question of whether children born to those in the country illegally should be entitled to citizenship, says Michael M. Hethmon, general counsel of the Immigration Reform Law Institute, which favors tighter restrictions on immigration and has advised the state legislators on their efforts.
Berman says the 14th Amendment was meant to clarify the status of freedmen and "does not apply to foreigners. The 14th Amendment, which is being used to provide citizenship, is the last thing that should be used."
Citizenship-By-Birth Faces Challenges : NPR
And just how are we going to convince millions of illegals to leave? They are going to leave because they might get caught and prosecuted? That would mean jury trials, defense attorneys, and all the associated legal ramblings. And of course, you are going have get a jury to send Jose to jail even though he has lived here all of his life and claims he never knowingly violated the law because his parent brought him here as a child. No, putting them in jail is not going to work. If they have committed crimes other than entering the country illegally, prosecute them for the crimes, send them to jail and then deport them. The best idea is to penalize the people who hire illegals. That is going to be one of the controversial parts of the bill.I am not trying to raise sympathy for the illegals, although some certainly deserve it, but rather to point out the problems the INS, Boarder Patrol, and the courts will face in trying to deport millions of people.
It's easy for the armchair quarterbacks to declare that all illegals should be thrown out of the country, but for the INS and courts that have to deal with real people its not easy or cheap. Look at the real world problems.
· What do you do with the illegal 12-year-old kid who is living on streets and you dont know his country origin?
· Do you deport someone who was brought to this country as a child and never violated any law?
· What about those that came into the country illegally but became productive members of society?
· If the only breadwinner of the family is illegal, do you deport him and leave the rest of the family to go on welfare?
· Do you deport elderly and sick illegals to countries where they will be no one to care for them?
· Then there is the economic question. Are you willing to work for $4/hr picking fruit, scrubbing floors, other such jobs? Few citizens of this country are. Which means those illegals are going to be replaced with worker making two or three times as much. That will translate into higher costs for everyone.
There is another consideration. The country that you are deporting the illegal to has to be willing to take them. It has not been a problem with Mexico, but if we tried to deport millions that might not be case.
We're not trying to deport each and every person ourselves, genius. We're trying to convince them to leave on their own/not bother coming in the first place.
You put a 12-year-old whose parents and information can't be located into foster care until they can be, same as they are now.
If someone was brought here by illegal parents, you send his little hiney back home with his parents. Intentionally or not, he's violating the law by being here. He DOES NOT BELONG HERE. Period.
I don't care how frigging "productive" you think they are. Are they here legally? No? Then they're criminals. Send 'em home. Frankly, I'm amused at this notion you people have of illegal immigrants morphing into Ozzie and Harriet when they get here. Add a few talking animals, and you have a Disney movie.
How many families do you suppose there are where the mom and all the kids are legal, but the father isn't? Be serious.
When did we become "Nursing Home to the World"? At what point did it become our problem to fix everyone else's life problems?
Shockingly enough, Brain Trust, most agricultural workers (the industry in which illegals are most represented) are legal residents, and don't work for $4 an hour. And if that's true of agriculture, it's true of every other industry. Thanks for sharing your fairy tales with us, though.
Yes, theyre plenty of families with some members legal and some not.
I still think the best way to deal with the problem is to secure our boarders, eliminate the incentive of available jobs, and to have a path to citizenship for those that would quality. Unless we find a way to document who is actually living in this country, we will never get a handle on the immigration problem.
We can pass laws that will never be enforced or we can pass laws that provide a workable solution to the problem.
I would tend to support the ellimination of citizenship by birth with some allowances for those in the country legally and working towards citizenship. Most other countries do not allow it.
Right now it serves as an incentive to sneak over, have your anchor baby and be set for life.
Yes, the Constitution grants citizenship to anyone born in the US.
And just how are we going to convince millions of illegals to leave? They are going to leave because they might get caught and prosecuted? That would mean jury trials, defense attorneys, and all the associated legal ramblings. And of course, you are going have get a jury to send Jose to jail even though he has lived here all of his life and claims he never knowingly violated the law because his parent brought him here as a child. No, putting them in jail is not going to work. If they have committed crimes other than entering the country illegally, prosecute them for the crimes, send them to jail and then deport them. The best idea is to penalize the people who hire illegals. That is going to be one of the controversial parts of the bill.
my2¢;2348579 said:How can somebody that has never been to any country but the U.S.A. be considered a foreigner? What are the rules in this regard?
How can a child born to a foreign diplomat be considered a foreigner? Face it, the law, which specifically denies citizenship to children born here to legal diplomats was never intended to provide citizenship to children born to illegal immigrants. The fact that when they are arrested we must first contact the mexican couselate (at least in the case of those born to Mexican illegals) tells us that they are not under our jurisdiction. "under the jurisdiction thereof"
It's about time this made it to the supreme court and was clarified.
And if it is determined that the children are American citizens, fine. Take them away from their illegal parents and give them up for adoption into a loving American home. No one should have a child in the course of committing a crime and that's what the illegals are doing. Therefore they are bad parents and should have their parental rights terminated.
my2¢;2348579 said:How can somebody that has never been to any country but the U.S.A. be considered a foreigner? What are the rules in this regard?
How can a child born to a foreign diplomat be considered a foreigner? Face it, the law, which specifically denies citizenship to children born here to legal diplomats was never intended to provide citizenship to children born to illegal immigrants. The fact that when they are arrested we must first contact the mexican couselate (at least in the case of those born to Mexican illegals) tells us that they are not under our jurisdiction. "under the jurisdiction thereof"
It's about time this made it to the supreme court and was clarified.
And if it is determined that the children are American citizens, fine. Take them away from their illegal parents and give them up for adoption into a loving American home. No one should have a child in the course of committing a crime and that's what the illegals are doing. Therefore they are bad parents and should have their parental rights terminated.
And just how are we going to convince millions of illegals to leave? They are going to leave because they might get caught and prosecuted? That would mean jury trials, defense attorneys, and all the associated legal ramblings. And of course, you are going have get a jury to send Jose to jail even though he has lived here all of his life and claims he never knowingly violated the law because his parent brought him here as a child. No, putting them in jail is not going to work. If they have committed crimes other than entering the country illegally, prosecute them for the crimes, send them to jail and then deport them. The best idea is to penalize the people who hire illegals. That is going to be one of the controversial parts of the bill.
"But the federal courts have never specifically addressed the question of whether children born to those in the country illegally should be entitled to citizenship, says Michael M. Hethmon, general counsel of the Immigration Reform Law Institute, which favors tighter restrictions on immigration and has advised the state legislators on their efforts.
Berman says the 14th Amendment was meant to clarify the status of freedmen and "does not apply to foreigners. The 14th Amendment, which is being used to provide citizenship, is the last thing that should be used."
Citizenship-By-Birth Faces Challenges : NPR
Should you be able to keep the loot you got from robbing a bank? Then why should illegals reap benefits from breaking the law.
First, the SCOTUS will uphold the traditional understanding of the 14th, and the anchor birthright will remain in place. Second, if the GOP is stupid to even put this into play in Congress, the 60% of the country that despises such thinking will vote the GOP into almost none-existence.
Since America is a christian nation then
First, the SCOTUS will uphold the traditional understanding of the 14th, and the anchor birthright will remain in place. Second, if the GOP is stupid to even put this into play in Congress, the 60% of the country that despises such thinking will vote the GOP into almost none-existence.
"60% of the country that despises such thinking".
LOL! Wow, you sure can make things up.
my2¢;2351714 said:my2¢;2348579 said:How can somebody that has never been to any country but the U.S.A. be considered a foreigner? What are the rules in this regard?
How can a child born to a foreign diplomat be considered a foreigner? Face it, the law, which specifically denies citizenship to children born here to legal diplomats was never intended to provide citizenship to children born to illegal immigrants. The fact that when they are arrested we must first contact the mexican couselate (at least in the case of those born to Mexican illegals) tells us that they are not under our jurisdiction. "under the jurisdiction thereof"
It's about time this made it to the supreme court and was clarified.
And if it is determined that the children are American citizens, fine. Take them away from their illegal parents and give them up for adoption into a loving American home. No one should have a child in the course of committing a crime and that's what the illegals are doing. Therefore they are bad parents and should have their parental rights terminated.
I wonder how many, if any, states on the birth certificates they issue indicate the mother and father's citizenship status? As for myself, I can't think of anything that shows my parent were here legally, both being born in the midwest during the 20's.
