Church Vs. State

[Hum Dinger]

The United States Constitution.

Article VI
but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Article VI guaranteed that governance of this country was not limited to Christians, and it was acknowledged at the time that Article VI allowed Jews, Muslims, atheists, Hindus, etc to hold Federal office.

Amendment I is what Jefferson was referring to when he said “this building a wall of separation between Church & State:” that no religion would dominate the government, and that the government would not tell people which religious beliefs were allowed or favor any religious beliefs over others.

And then in Everson v Board of Education of Ewing Township, the SCOTUS ruled that the establishment clause applied to the states via Amendment XIV, ruling that including parochial schools in reimbursing public transportation fares for school children was NOT a violation of the first amendment.

So, which specific parts of the Constitution are you objecting to?
Article VI which allows those of any or no religious belief to hold office?
Amendment I which forbids religious dominance or favoritism?
Or Amendment XIX, which incorporates most of the Bill of Rights, applying them to state and local governments?

I would appreciate (but I do not anticipate) specific legal arguments, not vague rhetorical claims.

Agreed, but you forgot:

"We the people do ordain"

That phrase says it all!

 

[pinqy]

Was your thread not about Separation of Church and State?


You were objecting to the concept of Church State separation.

The concept of this separation was specifically based on the Establishment Clause, but reasonably also can refer to Article VI and the Free Exercise Clause If the 1A, and the incorporation If the establishment and free exercise clauses by Amendment XIV.

Therefore, if you object to the concept of Church State Separation you must also object to the laws that establish the Walk of Separation.

Is that simple enough for you?

There never was any basis for separating our founding based on the Judeo-Christian concepts and faith from governance.


It was presented to allow Babeuf's and Marx's and Hegel's view of the primacy of government over the God-given rights of the individual.


Free exercise of any or no religion has nothing....nothing.....to do with the bogus restrictions of separation of church and state.

Is that simple enough for you?

Too simple, and vague, as I expected.
Let’s try again:
Do you agree that there should be no religious requirement for office? That Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, Wiccans, etc, should all be equally eligible for office?

Do you agree that the government should not favor or support any religion (or group of religions) over any other?

Do you agree that no one should be required, pressured, or encouraged to attend any religious observation or ceremony?

Do you agree that all people have the equal right to express their religion?

Do you agree that majority opinion should have no role in any expression of religion?


And last, an observation from James Madison: “Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects? that the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?”

Being that your interpretation of the article VI of our constitution is wrong, it makes all of your attempted points above mute.

Your highlighted part involves the non-discrimination of any religion's that are peaceful, and see God (the same God) as the head of their religious beliefs in which makes them compatible to that of our American culture in which had been formed with the Gospels as our guiding light, and in which had been established in our hearts, within our mind's, and has of course the same God of peace set in stone upon that forming in which we accepted from the beginning.

Of course we are to discriminate against any form of belief that endangers or is hostile towards our American beliefs in which includes our religious beliefs that we had brought with us on day one of our establishing of this nation.... Especially with such beliefs still intact. There is no separating us from our religious beliefs, our God or our country in which we have established so long ago. The attempt to do so is an attempt to seize this nation by any means nessesary, and that is unexceptable to the majority of American's to this very day I do believe.

Was your thread not about Separation of Church and State?


You were objecting to the concept of Church State separation.

The concept of this separation was specifically based on the Establishment Clause, but reasonably also can refer to Article VI and the Free Exercise Clause If the 1A, and the incorporation If the establishment and free exercise clauses by Amendment XIV.

Therefore, if you object to the concept of Church State Separation you must also object to the laws that establish the Walk of Separation.

Is that simple enough for you?

There never was any basis for separating our founding based on the Judeo-Christian concepts and faith from governance.


It was presented to allow Babeuf's and Marx's and Hegel's view of the primacy of government over the God-given rights of the individual.


Free exercise of any or no religion has nothing....nothing.....to do with the bogus restrictions of separation of church and state.

Is that simple enough for you?

Too simple, and vague, as I expected.
Let’s try again:
Do you agree that there should be no religious requirement for office? That Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, Wiccans, etc, should all be equally eligible for office?

Do you agree that the government should not favor or support any religion (or group of religions) over any other?

Do you agree that no one should be required, pressured, or encouraged to attend any religious observation or ceremony?

Do you agree that all people have the equal right to express their religion?

Do you agree that majority opinion should have no role in any expression of religion?


And last, an observation from James Madison: “Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects? that the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?”

Read it again, or have someone help you read it....and see if you find any religious requirement for office.


1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro





Any such reference?


No?


So....why did you pretend there was?

oh, should I repost my posts and ask you to tell me where I stated that you mentioned a religious requirement for office?

See, while some people who speak against the separation of Church and State do want a theocracy, or otherwise explicitly religious government, most don’t. But neither are they explicit in what they do want: what exactly eliminating separation would mean in practice.

So to determine what exactly you want in specific legal details, and which parts of the Constitution you might oppose, I have to ask your opinion on specific topics.

I note that you didn’t actually respond if you think Muslims, atheists, Hindus, Wiccans, should be allowed to run for Congress or President, or be appointed to the Supreme Court. Maybe you’re ok with it, maybe you’re not. I find it curious that you refuse to answer something fairly fundamental to Church State Separation.

Any belief system that is hostile towards Christianity in this nation that has always embraced Christianity, shouldn't be allowed to run for any powerful position in our government. It is that they would then attempt to turn the power of government against the Christian religion, otherwise in regards to lifting their own ideology or religion above the Christian religion in a bid to wipe it out or in an attempt to destroy it completely. Not going to happen this time.

Ok, so what extra qualification should be added after that section of Article VI forbidding religious tests is repealed?

 

[pinqy]

The United States Constitution.

Article VI
but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Article VI guaranteed that governance of this country was not limited to Christians, and it was acknowledged at the time that Article VI allowed Jews, Muslims, atheists, Hindus, etc to hold Federal office.

Amendment I is what Jefferson was referring to when he said “this building a wall of separation between Church & State:” that no religion would dominate the government, and that the government would not tell people which religious beliefs were allowed or favor any religious beliefs over others.

And then in Everson v Board of Education of Ewing Township, the SCOTUS ruled that the establishment clause applied to the states via Amendment XIV, ruling that including parochial schools in reimbursing public transportation fares for school children was NOT a violation of the first amendment.

So, which specific parts of the Constitution are you objecting to?
Article VI which allows those of any or no religious belief to hold office?
Amendment I which forbids religious dominance or favoritism?
Or Amendment XIX, which incorporates most of the Bill of Rights, applying them to state and local governments?

I would appreciate (but I do not anticipate) specific legal arguments, not vague rhetorical claims.

Agreed, but you forgot:

"We the people do ordain"

That phrase says it all!

I didn’t forget it. In what respect do you think I did?

 

[night_son]

And now for a perfect topic for this Sunday......a word from our Sponsor.


Or…Traditional vs Secular…..or conservative vs Liberal…or American vs Bolshevik

If you went to government school, you were steeped in the latter of each phrase. You were deprived of real history of this nation, and of Western Civilization. But, like Mighty Mouse, here I am to save the day.




1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro

From Hollywood movies and television series to video games, novels . . . even clothing fashions . . . atheists have repeated the same message over and over and over again to our youngest minds since the 1960's: It's not cool or hip to believe in the Christian God. And now, circa the last decade and ongoing, many in the US legislative and judicial branch have joined this anti-Christian crusade to remove God from the minds of our young people, while the radical Left intelligentsia who educate our recent high school grads confirm it for them: God and the Christians who worship him are racist, bigoted, evil, immoral legions who for centuries have done nothing but oppress people of other cultures. With such a wide spectrum, multi-pronged, multi-front attack against God and Christianity, what chance do we have of preventing generations of atheist youth dominating the educational, political and intellectual pillars of our society within the next decade or two? So in this way, the very foundations of Western Civilization could be collapsed, toppled, corroded to nothing.

 

[ThisIsMe]

And now for a perfect topic for this Sunday......a word from our Sponsor.


Or…Traditional vs Secular…..or conservative vs Liberal…or American vs Bolshevik

If you went to government school, you were steeped in the latter of each phrase. You were deprived of real history of this nation, and of Western Civilization. But, like Mighty Mouse, here I am to save the day.




1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro

"“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro"


gay ben shapiro would have been tormented, tortured and beaten (until he committed suicide) by CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS if liberals and progressives hadn't forced YOUR religion out of its prominent loft in public schools. And YOU would be here inciting your friends to violence, "gays are an abomination"

is THAT what you want?

conservative christians back in public schools teaching kids to hate gays?

Ben Shapiro isnt gay.....

 

[beagle9]

I don't mind you having a religion as long as you don't mind me not having your religion..

Exactly, now go shout it in the leftist dens as loud as you can, and then come back to tell us their reaction to your words. Next time you see a cross in a military cemetery that is A-ok with 99.9% of the families who have fallen loved ones there, then tell the left to keep their mouths shut up about that cross, unless of course the minority on the left thinks that it has the right to forcefully control the masses over such issues. We are sick of it all already.

 

[PoliticalChic]

And now for a perfect topic for this Sunday......a word from our Sponsor.


Or…Traditional vs Secular…..or conservative vs Liberal…or American vs Bolshevik

If you went to government school, you were steeped in the latter of each phrase. You were deprived of real history of this nation, and of Western Civilization. But, like Mighty Mouse, here I am to save the day.




1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro

From Hollywood movies and television series to video games, novels . . . even clothing fashions . . . atheists have repeated the same message over and over and over again to our youngest minds since the 1960's: It's not cool or hip to believe in the Christian God. And now, circa the last decade and ongoing, many in the US legislative and judicial branch have joined this anti-Christian crusade to remove God from the minds of our young people, while the radical Left intelligentsia who educate our recent high school grads confirm it for them: God and the Christians who worship him are racist, bigoted, evil, immoral legions who for centuries have done nothing but oppress people of other cultures. With such a wide spectrum, multi-pronged, multi-front attack against God and Christianity, what chance do we have of preventing generations of atheist youth dominating the educational, political and intellectual pillars of our society within the next decade or two? So in this way, the very foundations of Western Civilization could be collapsed, toppled, corroded to nothing.

Heartbreaking how successful they have been.


"...what chance do we have of preventing generations of atheist youth dominating the educational, political and intellectual pillars of our society within the next decade or two?"

I'm not optimistic on this score.....but, I suppose there is always hope.

I kinda like Shakespeare's 65th Sonnet....


Since brass, nor stone, nor earth, nor boundless sea,
But sad mortality o'ersways their power,
How with this rage shall beauty hold a plea,
Whose action is no stronger than a flower?
O! how shall summer's honey breath hold out,
Against the wrackful siege of battering days,
When rocks impregnable are not so stout,
Nor gates of steel so strong but Time decays?
O fearful meditation! where, alack,
Shall Time's best jewel from Time's chest lie hid?
Or what strong hand can hold his swift foot back?
Or who his spoil of beauty can forbid?
O! none, unless this miracle have might,
That in black ink my love may still shine bright.

 

[PoliticalChic]

And now for a perfect topic for this Sunday......a word from our Sponsor.


Or…Traditional vs Secular…..or conservative vs Liberal…or American vs Bolshevik

If you went to government school, you were steeped in the latter of each phrase. You were deprived of real history of this nation, and of Western Civilization. But, like Mighty Mouse, here I am to save the day.




1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro

"“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro"


gay ben shapiro would have been tormented, tortured and beaten (until he committed suicide) by CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS if liberals and progressives hadn't forced YOUR religion out of its prominent loft in public schools. And YOU would be here inciting your friends to violence, "gays are an abomination"

is THAT what you want?

conservative christians back in public schools teaching kids to hate gays?

Ben Shapiro isnt gay.....

The Leftists are either always wrong, or always lying.

 

[pinqy]

I have done no such thing. I am trying to pin down your views from the vague statements you have made. I wouldn’t ask if I thought I knew the answer.


Yes. That is a question. It means I do not know and am not assuming what the answer is. Many of the founding fathers and many people now believe there should be religious tests.

I DO NOT KNOW AND AM NOT GUESSING WHAT YOUR VIEW IS, so I ask. why do you not respond?



Is that inaccurate? Did you respond?
At this point, after multiple refusals to answer, I have to wonder why you refuse to answer.

It is possible you just don’t like to talk specifics and are more comfortable with empty rhetoric. It is possible you don’t want to admit you oppose religious tests. It’s possible you don’t want to admit you want religious tests. It’s possible you just like playing games. It’s possible you don’t understand the question. It’s possible you’re focusing on religious tests to avoid answering the questions about the 1st amendment. It’s probable that I haven’t thought of the actual reason you won’t answer.

But it is clear that you’re not interested in explaining your views or engaging in discussion.

I provided the OP, with specifics and links, yet you seem determined to change the subject.

Would that be due to the biases that I am pointing out in Leftists....is that where you're coming from?

Where are the links and specifics on your personal opinions on religious tests, rights of minority religions, and government support of religion?

Did you read this, and, if so, how did the above come from same?


1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro

What part was unclear?



Try as you may, it appears you are unable to find anything to dispute.


Excellent.

How have I tried to dispute anything in the OP?
I do not wish to at this time.
Right now I am trying to discover (unsuccessful ly) what you think the specific legal relationship between the government should be. You do not address that in the OP, so there’s no need to repost it...it just clutters up the thread.

I asked questions about specific aspects of Church State relations that you do not address in the OP. What’s your issue with answering them? You clearly don’t want to, but without guessing at your motives, we can’t know why.

I assume you don’t want me guessing at your motives or making up some hidden agenda.

"What part was unclear?"

Why would you write that???

I never said that.


But....if you'd like to try again.....no prob.


1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro




Any mistakes?

Any errors?

Difficult for you to understand?


No?

Must be something about the concepts that are so upsetting to one of your ilk.[/QUOTE]
And where in ther does it state your opinion on religious tests or the rights of minority religions? Oh? It doesn’t.

Huh, but that’s something i’d like to know because I consider those the most important aspects of Separation if Church and State. Hell, those are the issues that Jesffersin was addressing when he coined the phrase.

How can I find out your views on those topics not specifically mentioned in the OP?

Hmmmm maybe I should ask, and then you’d answer, and then we’d have a civil discussion.

But clearly you are not interested.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I provided the OP, with specifics and links, yet you seem determined to change the subject.

Would that be due to the biases that I am pointing out in Leftists....is that where you're coming from?

Where are the links and specifics on your personal opinions on religious tests, rights of minority religions, and government support of religion?

Did you read this, and, if so, how did the above come from same?


1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro

What part was unclear?



Try as you may, it appears you are unable to find anything to dispute.


Excellent.

How have I tried to dispute anything in the OP?
I do not wish to at this time.
Right now I am trying to discover (unsuccessful ly) what you think the specific legal relationship between the government should be. You do not address that in the OP, so there’s no need to repost it...it just clutters up the thread.

I asked questions about specific aspects of Church State relations that you do not address in the OP. What’s your issue with answering them? You clearly don’t want to, but without guessing at your motives, we can’t know why.

I assume you don’t want me guessing at your motives or making up some hidden agenda.

"What part was unclear?"

Why would you write that???

I never said that.


But....if you'd like to try again.....no prob.


1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro




Any mistakes?

Any errors?

Difficult for you to understand?


No?

Must be something about the concepts that are so upsetting to one of your ilk.

And where in ther does it state your opinion on religious tests or the rights of minority religions? Oh? It doesn’t.

Huh, but that’s something i’d like to know because I consider those the most important aspects of Separation if Church and State. Hell, those are the issues that Jesffersin was addressing when he coined the phrase.

How can I find out your views on those topics not specifically mentioned in the OP?

Hmmmm maybe I should ask, and then you’d answer, and then we’d have a civil discussion.

But clearly you are not interested.[/QUOTE]




Why would you keep trying to change the focus of my post?

You're not smart enough to figure out that we do things my way?

Always.


Simply put, you've inadvertently verified the OP.

You've served your purpose.

 

[ThisIsMe]

What people are not understanding is that, by removing religion from government, you are actually making a choice, and that choice is to support the government favoring the religion of atheism.

Public schools have been teaching an atheistic version of science for a very long time. Every time they teach a class about the big bang or evolution, the government is actually "establishing a religion". They may not put an official banner on it, but, they are forcing the religion of atheism on kids, by indoctrinating them from an early age to a teaching that doesnt include God.

So, since you dont want religion in government and in the class rooms, then I dont want your scientific view of the big bang and evolution taught in the class room..

 

[pinqy]

And now for a perfect topic for this Sunday......a word from our Sponsor.


Or…Traditional vs Secular…..or conservative vs Liberal…or American vs Bolshevik

If you went to government school, you were steeped in the latter of each phrase. You were deprived of real history of this nation, and of Western Civilization. But, like Mighty Mouse, here I am to save the day.




1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro

From Hollywood movies and television series to video games, novels . . . even clothing fashions . . . atheists have repeated the same message over and over and over again to our youngest minds since the 1960's: It's not cool or hip to believe in the Christian God. And now, circa the last decade and ongoing, many in the US legislative and judicial branch have joined this anti-Christian crusade to remove God from the minds of our young people, while the radical Left intelligentsia who educate our recent high school grads confirm it for them: God and the Christians who worship him are racist, bigoted, evil, immoral legions who for centuries have done nothing but oppress people of other cultures. With such a wide spectrum, multi-pronged, multi-front attack against God and Christianity, what chance do we have of preventing generations of atheist youth dominating the educational, political and intellectual pillars of our society within the next decade or two? So in this way, the very foundations of Western Civilization could be collapsed, toppled, corroded to nothing.

Ok, clearly you don’t agree with the last 72 years of SCOTUS devious on religion.

How would you have things? A religious requirement for office? An official religion? An unofficial national religion? Special status for some religions? Banning of some religions? Selective expression of religious beliefs? Majority rule if religion?

What is your vision?

 

[beagle9]

Being that your interpretation of the article VI of our constitution is wrong, it makes all of your attempted points above mute.

Your highlighted part involves the non-discrimination of any religion's that are peaceful, and see God (the same God) as the head of their religious beliefs in which makes them compatible to that of our American culture in which had been formed with the Gospels as our guiding light, and in which had been established in our hearts, within our mind's, and has of course the same God of peace set in stone upon that forming in which we accepted from the beginning.

Of course we are to discriminate against any form of belief that endangers or is hostile towards our American beliefs in which includes our religious beliefs that we had brought with us on day one of our establishing of this nation.... Especially with such beliefs still intact. There is no separating us from our religious beliefs, our God or our country in which we have established so long ago. The attempt to do so is an attempt to seize this nation by any means nessesary, and that is unexceptable to the majority of American's to this very day I do believe.

Read it again, or have someone help you read it....and see if you find any religious requirement for office.


1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro





Any such reference?


No?


So....why did you pretend there was?

oh, should I repost my posts and ask you to tell me where I stated that you mentioned a religious requirement for office?

See, while some people who speak against the separation of Church and State do want a theocracy, or otherwise explicitly religious government, most don’t. But neither are they explicit in what they do want: what exactly eliminating separation would mean in practice.

So to determine what exactly you want in specific legal details, and which parts of the Constitution you might oppose, I have to ask your opinion on specific topics.

I note that you didn’t actually respond if you think Muslims, atheists, Hindus, Wiccans, should be allowed to run for Congress or President, or be appointed to the Supreme Court. Maybe you’re ok with it, maybe you’re not. I find it curious that you refuse to answer something fairly fundamental to Church State Separation.

Did you write this?

"Do you agree that there should be no religious requirement for office?"



Did you write this?

"I note that you didn’t actually respond if you think Muslims, atheists, Hindus, Wiccans, should be allowed to run for Congress or President, or be appointed to the Supreme Court. "



Did you read this, and, if so, how did the above come from same?


1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro

What part was unclear?
See, while some people who speak against the separation of Church and State do want a theocracy, or otherwise explicitly religious government, most don’t. But neither are they explicit in what they do want: what exactly eliminating separation would mean in practice.

So to determine what exactly you want in specific legal details, and which parts of the Constitution you might oppose, I have to ask your opinion on specific topics.

That flat out says you did NOT mention religious tests.

So because you didn’t say what your opinion was, how am I supposed to know? It is not possible for you not to have an opinion.

I’ m starting to think you must have a reason for not sharing that or how specifically you think minority religions should be treated.

What is unclear is why you tried to imply a bias not in evidence.

I have done no such thing. I am trying to pin down your views from the vague statements you have made. I wouldn’t ask if I thought I knew the answer.

Did you write this?

"Do you agree that there should be no religious requirement for office?"

Yes. That is a question. It means I do not know and am not assuming what the answer is. Many of the founding fathers and many people now believe there should be religious tests.

I DO NOT KNOW AND AM NOT GUESSING WHAT YOUR VIEW IS, so I ask. why do you not respond?

Did you write this?

"I note that you didn’t actually respond if you think Muslims, atheists, Hindus, Wiccans, should be allowed to run for Congress or President, or be appointed to the Supreme Court. "

Is that inaccurate? Did you respond?
At this point, after multiple refusals to answer, I have to wonder why you refuse to answer.

It is possible you just don’t like to talk specifics and are more comfortable with empty rhetoric. It is possible you don’t want to admit you oppose religious tests. It’s possible you don’t want to admit you want religious tests. It’s possible you just like playing games. It’s possible you don’t understand the question. It’s possible you’re focusing on religious tests to avoid answering the questions about the 1st amendment. It’s probable that I haven’t thought of the actual reason you won’t answer.

But it is clear that you’re not interested in explaining your views or engaging in discussion.

You claim that this nation wants a religious test, yet on what grounds are you basing this assumption upon ?? Do you think the nation is so secular now, that it might be exploring the thoughts of requiring religious test for office ?? What, because maybe the test would be in order to expose possible Christian's whom want to be part of government ??

 

[pinqy]

What people are not understanding is that, by removing religion from government, you are actually making a choice, and that choice is to support the government favoring the religion of atheism.

Public schools have been teaching an atheistic version of science for a very long time. Every time they teach a class about the big bang or evolution, the government is actually "establishing a religion". They may not put an official banner on it, but, they are forcing the religion of atheism on kids, by indoctrinating them from an early age to a teaching that doesnt include God.

So, since you dont want religion in government and in the class rooms, then I dont want your scientific view of the big bang and evolution taught in the class room..

So by your logic, teaching auto mechanics, math, English, accounting, are all establishing atheism because they don’t include God.

That’s....ummmmm....interesting.

 

[pinqy]

oh, should I repost my posts and ask you to tell me where I stated that you mentioned a religious requirement for office?

See, while some people who speak against the separation of Church and State do want a theocracy, or otherwise explicitly religious government, most don’t. But neither are they explicit in what they do want: what exactly eliminating separation would mean in practice.

So to determine what exactly you want in specific legal details, and which parts of the Constitution you might oppose, I have to ask your opinion on specific topics.

I note that you didn’t actually respond if you think Muslims, atheists, Hindus, Wiccans, should be allowed to run for Congress or President, or be appointed to the Supreme Court. Maybe you’re ok with it, maybe you’re not. I find it curious that you refuse to answer something fairly fundamental to Church State Separation.

Did you write this?

"Do you agree that there should be no religious requirement for office?"



Did you write this?

"I note that you didn’t actually respond if you think Muslims, atheists, Hindus, Wiccans, should be allowed to run for Congress or President, or be appointed to the Supreme Court. "



Did you read this, and, if so, how did the above come from same?


1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro

What part was unclear?
See, while some people who speak against the separation of Church and State do want a theocracy, or otherwise explicitly religious government, most don’t. But neither are they explicit in what they do want: what exactly eliminating separation would mean in practice.

So to determine what exactly you want in specific legal details, and which parts of the Constitution you might oppose, I have to ask your opinion on specific topics.

That flat out says you did NOT mention religious tests.

So because you didn’t say what your opinion was, how am I supposed to know? It is not possible for you not to have an opinion.

I’ m starting to think you must have a reason for not sharing that or how specifically you think minority religions should be treated.

What is unclear is why you tried to imply a bias not in evidence.

I have done no such thing. I am trying to pin down your views from the vague statements you have made. I wouldn’t ask if I thought I knew the answer.

Did you write this?

"Do you agree that there should be no religious requirement for office?"

Yes. That is a question. It means I do not know and am not assuming what the answer is. Many of the founding fathers and many people now believe there should be religious tests.

I DO NOT KNOW AND AM NOT GUESSING WHAT YOUR VIEW IS, so I ask. why do you not respond?

Did you write this?

"I note that you didn’t actually respond if you think Muslims, atheists, Hindus, Wiccans, should be allowed to run for Congress or President, or be appointed to the Supreme Court. "

Is that inaccurate? Did you respond?
At this point, after multiple refusals to answer, I have to wonder why you refuse to answer.

It is possible you just don’t like to talk specifics and are more comfortable with empty rhetoric. It is possible you don’t want to admit you oppose religious tests. It’s possible you don’t want to admit you want religious tests. It’s possible you just like playing games. It’s possible you don’t understand the question. It’s possible you’re focusing on religious tests to avoid answering the questions about the 1st amendment. It’s probable that I haven’t thought of the actual reason you won’t answer.

But it is clear that you’re not interested in explaining your views or engaging in discussion.

You claim that this nation wants a religious test, yet on what grounds are you basing this assumption upon ??

I never claimed that. And I certainly didn’t assume it.

 

[ThisIsMe]

What people are not understanding is that, by removing religion from government, you are actually making a choice, and that choice is to support the government favoring the religion of atheism.

Public schools have been teaching an atheistic version of science for a very long time. Every time they teach a class about the big bang or evolution, the government is actually "establishing a religion". They may not put an official banner on it, but, they are forcing the religion of atheism on kids, by indoctrinating them from an early age to a teaching that doesnt include God.

So, since you dont want religion in government and in the class rooms, then I dont want your scientific view of the big bang and evolution taught in the class room..

So by your logic, teaching auto mechanics, math, English, accounting, are all establishing atheism because they don’t include God.

That’s....ummmmm....interesting.

Nope, but evolution and the big bang are theories that are in direct contradiction to creationism.

Math, science, English, those are all irrespective of religion, but, the origins of our universe have two possible methods. Either the evolutionist theory (anti God, pro atheism), or creation theory (pro God, anti atheism).

So, by electing to teach evolution and big bang, they are choosing an anti God version of how our universe began, hence, the religion of atheism. Even though our forefathers and people way before them were all fairly religious and believed in the Christian viewpoint, the secular version replaced it and is taught to this day.

So, you dont want religion, then I dont want anti religion.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What people are not understanding is that, by removing religion from government, you are actually making a choice, and that choice is to support the government favoring the religion of atheism.

Public schools have been teaching an atheistic version of science for a very long time. Every time they teach a class about the big bang or evolution, the government is actually "establishing a religion". They may not put an official banner on it, but, they are forcing the religion of atheism on kids, by indoctrinating them from an early age to a teaching that doesnt include God.

So, since you dont want religion in government and in the class rooms, then I dont want your scientific view of the big bang and evolution taught in the class room..

So by your logic, teaching auto mechanics, math, English, accounting, are all establishing atheism because they don’t include God.

That’s....ummmmm....interesting.

Nope, but evolution and the big bang are theories that are in direct contradiction to creationism.

Math, science, English, those are all irrespective of religion, but, the origins of our universe have two possible methods. Either the evolutionist theory (anti God, pro atheism), or creation theory (pro God, anti atheism).

So, by electing to teach evolution and big bang, they are choosing an anti God version of how our universe began, hence, the religion of atheism. Even though our forefathers and people way before them were all fairly religious and believed in the Christian viewpoint, the secular version replaced it and is taught to this day.

So, you dont want religion, then I dont want anti religion.

As government-as-god mandates government schooling.....what is the alternative?

 

[beagle9]

There never was any basis for separating our founding based on the Judeo-Christian concepts and faith from governance.


It was presented to allow Babeuf's and Marx's and Hegel's view of the primacy of government over the God-given rights of the individual.


Free exercise of any or no religion has nothing....nothing.....to do with the bogus restrictions of separation of church and state.

Is that simple enough for you?

Too simple, and vague, as I expected.
Let’s try again:
Do you agree that there should be no religious requirement for office? That Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, Wiccans, etc, should all be equally eligible for office?

Do you agree that the government should not favor or support any religion (or group of religions) over any other?

Do you agree that no one should be required, pressured, or encouraged to attend any religious observation or ceremony?

Do you agree that all people have the equal right to express their religion?

Do you agree that majority opinion should have no role in any expression of religion?


And last, an observation from James Madison: “Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects? that the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?”

Being that your interpretation of the article VI of our constitution is wrong, it makes all of your attempted points above mute.

Your highlighted part involves the non-discrimination of any religion's that are peaceful, and see God (the same God) as the head of their religious beliefs in which makes them compatible to that of our American culture in which had been formed with the Gospels as our guiding light, and in which had been established in our hearts, within our mind's, and has of course the same God of peace set in stone upon that forming in which we accepted from the beginning.

Of course we are to discriminate against any form of belief that endangers or is hostile towards our American beliefs in which includes our religious beliefs that we had brought with us on day one of our establishing of this nation.... Especially with such beliefs still intact. There is no separating us from our religious beliefs, our God or our country in which we have established so long ago. The attempt to do so is an attempt to seize this nation by any means nessesary, and that is unexceptable to the majority of American's to this very day I do believe.

There never was any basis for separating our founding based on the Judeo-Christian concepts and faith from governance.


It was presented to allow Babeuf's and Marx's and Hegel's view of the primacy of government over the God-given rights of the individual.


Free exercise of any or no religion has nothing....nothing.....to do with the bogus restrictions of separation of church and state.

Is that simple enough for you?

Too simple, and vague, as I expected.
Let’s try again:
Do you agree that there should be no religious requirement for office? That Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, Wiccans, etc, should all be equally eligible for office?

Do you agree that the government should not favor or support any religion (or group of religions) over any other?

Do you agree that no one should be required, pressured, or encouraged to attend any religious observation or ceremony?

Do you agree that all people have the equal right to express their religion?

Do you agree that majority opinion should have no role in any expression of religion?


And last, an observation from James Madison: “Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects? that the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?”

Read it again, or have someone help you read it....and see if you find any religious requirement for office.


1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro





Any such reference?


No?


So....why did you pretend there was?

oh, should I repost my posts and ask you to tell me where I stated that you mentioned a religious requirement for office?

See, while some people who speak against the separation of Church and State do want a theocracy, or otherwise explicitly religious government, most don’t. But neither are they explicit in what they do want: what exactly eliminating separation would mean in practice.

So to determine what exactly you want in specific legal details, and which parts of the Constitution you might oppose, I have to ask your opinion on specific topics.

I note that you didn’t actually respond if you think Muslims, atheists, Hindus, Wiccans, should be allowed to run for Congress or President, or be appointed to the Supreme Court. Maybe you’re ok with it, maybe you’re not. I find it curious that you refuse to answer something fairly fundamental to Church State Separation.

Any belief system that is hostile towards Christianity in this nation that has always embraced Christianity, shouldn't be allowed to run for any powerful position in our government. It is that they would then attempt to turn the power of government against the Christian religion, otherwise in regards to lifting their own ideology or religion above the Christian religion in a bid to wipe it out or in an attempt to destroy it completely. Not going to happen this time.

Ok, so what extra qualification should be added after that section of Article VI forbidding religious tests is repealed?

No religious test is required, as we should easily by now have enough knowledge and information to know who is hostile to our belief system in this country, and who isn't hostile to it. Problem is these days, is that we have allowed the lines to be blurred by those who are hostile to our government, our nation, our traditions, and our American cultures, and we seem to be lost as to how it happened, who is responsible, and exactly what should be done about it now.

Religious test would only serve the interest of those hoping to keep out the Christian's from holding office once find them out through such test, so the test would not be conducted in a way in which you might fear, but they would actually serve in a way to calm your fears if you are hostile towards the Christian belief system in this nation.

No religious test required actually protects and preserves the Christian belief system in America, and in American government, and it protects Christian's whom wish to serve in our government body just like any other feels called upon to serve in that body... However, for those who are hostile to our traditional belief systems, well they should be banned from holding office in our government. This can be done through the use of comparable and compatibilty gauging that takes none other than common sense to be applied by way of looking at the history of events throughout the world, where as all has been proven time and time again.

Anyone ignoring history is completely foolish in doing so, and it therefore sets them up for heart aches of a great magnitude in the end.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

And now for a perfect topic for this Sunday......a word from our Sponsor.


Or…Traditional vs Secular…..or conservative vs Liberal…or American vs Bolshevik

If you went to government school, you were steeped in the latter of each phrase. You were deprived of real history of this nation, and of Western Civilization. But, like Mighty Mouse, here I am to save the day.




1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro

What makes YOU think YOU have the right to brainwash MY KIDS with YOUR RELIGION?!?!?!?!?!


LEAVE OUR KIDS ALONE!

Nobody is brainwashing your kids.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

The lefts religion is govt. It's all they have.....a fleeting moment, Church and state had to do with jefferson and his letter to the danbury baptist association.