Christians Aren't Required By Law Now To Go To Hell Forever In Arizona!

[Silhouette]

The book of Jude is about contending for the faith against false teachers. While quoting Jude you need to examine closer the last part for the command given to believers:

20. But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21. Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22. And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23. And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

First build yourself up in your own faith and pray in the Holy Ghost. Second, keep yourself in the love of God by looking for the mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ, third have compassion on these people and make a difference, fourth, be led by the Spirit and rescue others through stronger admonitions and warnings which teach the fear of the Lord, which will literally pull them out of the fire - saving their souls. ( the goal is saving people )

It is in that order. If you don't have your own faith in G-d built up, if you aren't prayed up and keeping yourself in the love of G-d everything else is going to fall apart. The best answer is be led by the Spirit and let Him direct you.

Hey pal, you forgot the first 19 lines of Jude 1. You weren't trying to represent the whole message as the last few lines were you? That would be deceitful to leave out the dire warnings about not contending earnestly to defeat a homosexual takeover of a given culture....very deceitful...

No, the best is to earnestly contend for the faith as it was clearly spelled out for you. What you just said is "don't earnestly fend off the overtaking of the homosexual cultural wildfire until it's too late"....ie: ignore all the advances gays are making on your home town and just sequester yourself away and pray. "Earnestly contend" means to get off your dead ass, quit praying and DO SOMETHING to make a concrete change to preserve the matrix of God. To do nothing but pray is not going to get you out of the jamb you are heading towards..

There is a time for quiet reflection and a time to act. Today it's the time to act. And how do I know this? Because gays are knocking down the door of marriage literally by the day. Gonna just sit there are you? As a "good christian"?

...And in Jude 1 it also warned about those of smooth speeches, lulling the faithful away from the very directives just given them in Jude 1!

JUDE 1

3. Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not...

..7. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire...

...14. And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15. To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

17. But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18. How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

20. But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21. Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22. And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23. And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

24. Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy..

ROMANS 1

22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23. And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29. Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30. Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31. Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32. Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Hey pal, you forgot the first 19 lines of Jude 1. You weren't trying to represent the whole message as the last few lines were you? That would be deceitful to leave out the dire warnings about not contending earnestly to defeat a homosexual takeover of a given culture....very deceitful...

No, the best is to earnestly contend for the faith as it was clearly spelled out for you. What you just said is "don't earnestly fend off the overtaking of the homosexual cultural wildfire until it's too late"....ie: ignore all the advances gays are making on your home town and just sequester yourself away and pray. "Earnestly contend" means to get off your dead ass, quit praying and DO SOMETHING to make a concrete change to preserve the matrix of God. To do nothing but pray is not going to get you out of the jamb you are heading towards..

There is a time for quiet reflection and a time to act. Today it's the time to act. And how do I know this? Because gays are knocking down the door of marriage literally by the day. Gonna just sit there are you? As a "good christian"?
_____________
I'm a woman. I'm not just sitting here. Prayer is more powerful than any other force on earth. Including the multitude of words being displayed on this thread. I am not going to argue scripture with you. You don't know my relationship with God so be careful in your judgment of me. I know the book of Romans. I typed out the entire Book word for word on this very message board. Look up the thread. Romans. I've written plenty but I've not felt led to write anything other than this. That is all I have to say. I'll leave you to it.

 

[Silhouette]

_____________
I'm a woman. I'm not just sitting here. Prayer is more powerful than any other force on earth. Including the multitude of words being displayed on this thread. I am not going to argue scripture with you. You don't know my relationship with God so be careful in your judgment of me. I know the book of Romans. I typed out the entire Book word for word on this very message board. Look up the thread. Romans. I've written plenty but I've not felt led to write anything other than this. That is all I have to say. I'll leave you to it.

Yeah, well...prayer aint' cuttin' it is it? Look what's happening in spite of all the prayer you can muster. Pray all you want, and I suggest that you do. However, rise up off that idle butt, female or not, and put it to work as the Bible instructed you to "earnestly contend" for the 'common salvation'. "Earnest" doesn't mean "pray harder!". It means "go beyond prayer and DO SOMETHING".

Also, do you understand what that means, "common salvation"? Let me explain it to you. It means that if one of us goes down, we all go down. They held that out, the angels directed to dictate in Jude 1, and also held out the destruction of Sodom and ALL its inhabitants [the gays and their sychophants/enablers/do-nothing prayer-pacifists] as an example. The message is quite clear. Prayer quite obviously wasn't working in Sodom. Neither is it in its counterpart today. Such is the insidious and powerful nature of the beast and its immunity to good intending. You either get up off dead butt and do something to stave off the progression of the cult of LGBT into your marriage halls and your schoolyards, or you go to the Pit with them.

Does that mean losing your career like Piers Morgan just did for daring to ask a self-butchering transgender male if he was born male? Yes, probably. Does that mean you may get blackmailed by the cult of LGBT in some other way? Yep, no doubt about it. Does that mean you will have to spend time on camera defending your stance to an angry crowd of delusional ranters threatening to tan your hide? Sure, quite likely. But all this stuff pales in comparison to what will happen to you if you do nothing. Speaking of prayers, you will be praying then for a chance at being defamed, fired, accosted, screamed at or ruined financially. I hear the Pit is no picnic...the screaming, the gnashing of teeth, the inhuman growls, tearing of flesh. No kidding. I've read a few of those near death accounts of the not so nice variety. They line up in detail in a very disturbing pattern..

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Prayer is more powerful than any other force on earth.

Now there's some real nonsense. Based on the numbers if prayers counted for anything Jesus would dropping into Starbucks for coffee each morning and abortion would unheard of. If you wish to be healed don't pray, see the doctor and then pray they knew what they were doing.

 

[JakeStarkey]

" . . .'common salvation' . . . means that if one of us goes down, we all go down" is pseudo-Christian heresy.

 

[Silhouette]

" . . .'common salvation' . . . means that if one of us goes down, we all go down" is pseudo-Christian heresy.

Another non-substantive space-filler from Jake the page/lucid points crusher.

I know Jake, how about five more posts each containing one sentence. After this post you've got about ten more.. maybe you could get a few other posters to fill in the rest with a strawman or three?

 

[Katzndogz]

There is no such thing as common salvation. If there was, there would be no such thing as Christ being a personal savior.

God gave people free will for a reason. They can sin if they wish, or even choose what will be sins for themselves. What they cannot do, is compel another to commit a sin on their behalf.

 

[Silhouette]

There is no such thing as common salvation. If there was, there would be no such thing as Christ being a personal savior.

God gave people free will for a reason. They can sin if they wish, or even choose what will be sins for themselves. What they cannot do, is compel another to commit a sin on their behalf.

Yes, free will works for the individual in his personal tests. However, Jude and Romans 1 are not about individuals. They are specifically about societies run amok with homosexuality. You see, in order to be tested, the matrix within which an individual finds himself must have a fair degree of predictability. If it doesn't, there is no hope of guiding that individual towards his own salvation. The common salvation comes into play when repairing very large wrongs, like Sodom, or other cultures like Sodom, that have allowed a degenerating force to run rampant for so long that it threatens the very fabric of the Great Experiment of free will.

This is why it is such mortal sin to tamper with the matrix.

See the difference? This is why a christian that doesn't want to go to the Pit must earnestly contend for the faith. This is a whole other ball of wax that threatens the very core, the very heart of God's will for the Testing Grounds... It requires that a christian go outside his own bubble, grab the offenders by the shirt collar and shake them back into submission....figuratively speaking. In America, we do that with legal action. FIGHT BACK. Sue the suers! If I was Piers Morgan, for example, I'd sue the pants off of CNN for punishing his objective journalistic observation that a tranny was born a male. That would be his way of earnestly contending for the faith.. Each person has their own arena they can do a version of this, unique to themselves.

 

[JakeStarkey]

" . . .'common salvation' . . . means that if one of us goes down, we all go down" is pseudo-Christian heresy.

Another non-substantive space-filler from Jake the page/lucid points crusher.

I know Jake, how about five more posts each containing one sentence. After this post you've got about ten more.. maybe you could get a few other posters to fill in the rest with a strawman or three?

Sil, I pointed out that you are a pseudo-Christian heretic preaching a heretical doctrine of common damnation of "we all go down" together if "sin" is not successfully resisted. A fan of Pilgrim's Progress you are not.

 

[JakeStarkey]

There is no such thing as common salvation. If there was, there would be no such thing as Christ being a personal savior.

God gave people free will for a reason. They can sin if they wish, or even choose what will be sins for themselves. What they cannot do, is compel another to commit a sin on their behalf.

Yes, free will works for the individual in his personal tests. However, Jude and Romans 1 are not about individuals. They are specifically about societies run amok with homosexuality. You see, in order to be tested, the matrix within which an individual finds himself must have a fair degree of predictability. If it doesn't, there is no hope of guiding that individual towards his own salvation. The common salvation comes into play when repairing very large wrongs, like Sodom, or other cultures like Sodom, that have allowed a degenerating force to run rampant for so long that it threatens the very fabric of the Great Experiment of free will.

This is why it is such mortal sin to tamper with the matrix.

See the difference? This is why a christian that doesn't want to go to the Pit must earnestly contend for the faith. This is a whole other ball of wax that threatens the very core, the very heart of God's will for the Testing Grounds... It requires that a christian go outside his own bubble, grab the offenders by the shirt collar and shake them back into submission....figuratively speaking. In America, we do that with legal action. FIGHT BACK. Sue the suers! If I was Piers Morgan, for example, I'd sue the pants off of CNN for punishing his objective journalistic observation that a tranny was born a male. That would be his way of earnestly contending for the faith.. Each person has their own arena they can do a version of this, unique to themselves.

Heresy is what you preach, Sil, but contend away by all means.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Sil, do you belong to any recognized Christian denomination or are you a free range Christian?

 

[Katzndogz]

There is no such thing as common salvation. If there was, there would be no such thing as Christ being a personal savior.

God gave people free will for a reason. They can sin if they wish, or even choose what will be sins for themselves. What they cannot do, is compel another to commit a sin on their behalf.

Yes, free will works for the individual in his personal tests. However, Jude and Romans 1 are not about individuals. They are specifically about societies run amok with homosexuality. You see, in order to be tested, the matrix within which an individual finds himself must have a fair degree of predictability. If it doesn't, there is no hope of guiding that individual towards his own salvation. The common salvation comes into play when repairing very large wrongs, like Sodom, or other cultures like Sodom, that have allowed a degenerating force to run rampant for so long that it threatens the very fabric of the Great Experiment of free will.

This is why it is such mortal sin to tamper with the matrix.

See the difference? This is why a christian that doesn't want to go to the Pit must earnestly contend for the faith. This is a whole other ball of wax that threatens the very core, the very heart of God's will for the Testing Grounds... It requires that a christian go outside his own bubble, grab the offenders by the shirt collar and shake them back into submission....figuratively speaking. In America, we do that with legal action. FIGHT BACK. Sue the suers! If I was Piers Morgan, for example, I'd sue the pants off of CNN for punishing his objective journalistic observation that a tranny was born a male. That would be his way of earnestly contending for the faith.. Each person has their own arena they can do a version of this, unique to themselves.

When societies run amok with homosexuality, the society is destroyed. Whether or not they believe in God, or Jesus or the Flying Spaghetti Monster they are destroyed.

I have had some excellent discussions of the reasons why. Either it becomes too rotted to continue or too rotted to be worth defending or even some divine retribution or a combination of all three.

 

[bodecea]

Sil, do you belong to any recognized Christian denomination or are you a free range Christian?

"free range christian".....

 

[emilynghiem]

* The one unforgiveable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. This is more clearly interpreted as the sin of unforgiveness, since if we don't ask help with forgiveness, we attach to negative conflicts that block God's will from bringing in healing grace. As long as we ask to forgive, anything else can be resolved; but unforgiveness blocks the whole process until that is changed.

* as for homosexuality the ten commandments makes it clear not to "covet" another person's wife/spouse or commit "adultery."

so where homosexuality can be shown to be such an act of "unnatural coveting or adultery"
that conflict of personal interest needs to be resolved to be in harmony spiritually with love to prevent any abuse of sex or of relations in general.

coveting and unforgiveness kills a lot more relationships that just limiting or targeting homosexuality.

whatever karma or sin is involved in any abuse of relationships should be healed and corrected, but this is done with forgiveness, not rejection, and respect for God's love.

any problems or conflicts should still be addressed and resolved by healing forgiveness and loving correction,
not by condemnation, judgment or rejection which do not solve the problem but make it worse.

Arizona Senate: Business owners can cite religion to refuse service to gays

PHOENIX — State senators voted Wednesday to let businesses refuse to serve gays based on owners' "sincerely held" religious beliefs...

..."This bill is not about discrimination," he said. "It's about preventing discrimination against people who are clearly living out their faith."

A similar measure is awaiting a vote in the House, probably later today.

Arizona already has laws which protect individuals and businesses from any state action which substantially interferes with their right to exercise their religion. This bill extends that protection to cover what essentially are private transactions.

The push follows a decision by the New Mexico Supreme Court which said a gay couple could sue a photographer who refused on religious grounds to take pictures of their nuptials...

... "I understand that the freedom of religion can be inconvenient," he said. "But this is what our Constitution contemplates.''

Jude 1 in the Bible urges the faithful to "earnestly contend" to defend the faith for the "common salvation" and tells them that if they fail, they will be condemned to the pit of fire forever along with the homosexuals, like what happened in Sodom. There is a major, mortal sin associated with failing to fend off a homosexual culture from making inroads into a faithful culture of christians. They are condemned along with those they failed to fend off. That's some pretty tough language and high stakes for not taking the passage seriously...

..Christian's freedom to practice their religion is inseperable from the freedom to not be forced to disobey passages like Jude 1. The language in it is clear and unmistakeable in its severity of warning..

Unable to block the measure, Gallardo tried what he called a notice requirement for those businesses that want to assert their religious freedom to refuse to serve gays.

"If there is an organization or a business out there that wants to use the defense of religious freedom, I believe that consumers have a right to know," he said. Yarbrough, however, got the GOP majority to reject the amendment.

Gallardo said opposition to consumer notice is no surprise. Any firm which openly advertises such discrimination would be boycotted and go out of business, he said.

Yeah, not so sure about that last bit:

 

[AVG-JOE]

When societies run amok with homosexuality, the society is destroyed.

Do you Really see AVG-America as on the verge of "running amok with homosexuality"?


Running amok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

`​

 

[Jarlaxle]

Sil, do you belong to any recognized Christian denomination or are you a free range Christian?

Westboro Baptist, perhaps?

 

[JoeB131]

Any guy who's ever thought of or looked at another man's erect penis is going to hell. I'll save you a seat by the fire.

I'll bring the marshmellows!

Hell is a place of darkness, you won't even be able to see your marshmallows.

No, Hell is the invention of human imagination. It doesn't exist.

Where is Hell? Is it underground, like most medieval Christians thought it was, until that Sciency stuff figured out what actually was underground?

Or is in deep space like The Mormons believe?

Or is it in another dimension? Maybe it's like that chart they showed in the D&D books.

You see how absurd your religion seems if you actually think about it.

Here's my problem with Hell, being brought up in the Catholic tradition. They taught us that there was Heaven, Hell, Purgatory and Limbo. Limbo is where all the unbaptized babies and nice people from before Jesus went to. Which struck me as cruel and kind of dickish. Wasn't their fault.

Then you had Purgatory, which was like Hell, but temporary. They never went into a lot of detail about Purgatory, but they assured you your otherwise nice Grandfather went there to work off his sins for an eon or two.

Then you had Heaven, which seemed to involve a lot of vertical lines, for some reason. And frankly, as much as the Nuns tried to sell it, it kind of never sounded all that interesting, except that all the people you liked would be there waiting for you when you were all done with purgatory.

And then there was Hell, the bogeyman they all threatened you with. Fire and torture for all eternity because God Loves You.

I figured out this was all bullshit by the time I was out of high school.

 

[hazlnut]

You should absolutely have that right. You should have the right to put a sign in the window saying "Gay only" if you wish and not cite any religious right to do so. However, no one is refusing to serve gays, merely refusing to be in servitude TO gays.

You homophobes will jump through loops to justify your hate.

Just like the segregationists and slave owners, you bend and twist the bible to suit your sick little phobias.

 

[JoeB131]

[q

What part about etnernal damnation and the pit of fire for enabling homosexuality in those passages seemed "vague" to you? Was it the "earnestly contend for the faith" part? The word "earnest" was a little vague for you? The bits in red seem a little vague do they? A little "open for interpretation"?...

What seems vague to me is that SAME book says that there are Unicorns, Dragons, Sea Monsters, Talking Snakes, Talking Donkeys, Giants, and that the world is only 6000 years old.

All of things I am reasonably sure aren't true.

Not to worry, though. We should take them TOTALLY seriously on this whole thing about how there is a place that is underground or in space or in another dimension or something where people are going to be tormented forever because they wished their friend who is gay a happy life with her partner.

 

[hazlnut]

I was unaware that you could go to hell for being forced to serve gays.

Read Jude 1 and Romans 1 of the Bible. Then you will be aware. Pays to brush up before joining the conversation..

Just like the slave owners and segregationists, you will twist scripture, take it way out of historical or cultural context, to justify your OWN fears and insecurities.

You doubt your own sexual orientation, you likely did something in your past that you are ashamed of, you are so afraid of being less than a man that you fear drives you to hate.

That's homophobia.