'Christian warrior' militia accused in plot to kill police

[Dr Grump]

You aren't required to prove negatives, cupcake. When people make accusations, if they don't back them up, it isn't the onus of the attacked to "prove" said incident didn't happen...when it was never proved it DID happen.

You mean like proving DC's murder rate has quadrupled (even though it hasn't).And even if it had, that it is due to a lack of guns......

 

[The T]

Libertarians are in fact right-wingers.

Define it. And NO Dictionary allowed. YOUR own words...GO!

Right-winger or Libertarian?

"Right-winger" I defined above, so I guess you mean "Libertarian".

A Libertarian is a person who believes in the minimalization of Government oversight and responsibility.

Many people today who call themselves "Libertarian" however, have narrowed their minimalist views to only apply to fiscal issues, and believe in the legislation of morality in such areas as sexuality. Also different in many modern so-called Libertarians is a belief that the US should be projecting it's military might across the globe.

Ron Paul is an example of a classic Libertarian. Sean Hannity is a modern, so-called "Libertarian".

It was highlighted for you...You Fail.

 

[The T]

What is the Right wing? It's people who believe in INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY... is it not?

So what would an EXTREME RIGHT WINGER be? Some who REALLY BELIEVES in INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY...

Count me amongst that group...

That is entirely dependent on the right-winger in question. There are a wide range of beliefs that fall under the title "right-wing", just like there are a wide-range of beliefs that fall under the category, "left-wing".

In modern terminology, the "right-wing" is generally indentifiable by:

• Anti-Government sentiment
• Support for individual rights in terms of economics, guns and religion
• Support of projecting US military power
• Support of restrictions on "immoral behavior", usually based on:
• Fundamentalist religious beliefs
• Strong opposition to taxation

Some right-wing folks only belong to 2 or 3 of these categories, some all of them.



Completely untrue. Nazi-ism was labeled "Socialism" incorrectly. It was a fascist system that only practiced socialism up until the point the corporations were handed out to private owners, forming "Cartels", usually made up of party cronies.

Mussolini famously said that fascism would more correctly be labeled "Corporatism".

And these cranks in Michigan are no exception.



Yep... that's what I'm sayin'... at least the toothless 'rightwing extremist' that you erroneously believe exist.

As I said the Rightwingers are fully employed; probably self employed or are on the front line of public service, in the Police fire-fighter or US military...

Michigan has plenty of those folks... and many of them have cabins int he woods... which usually sit along a lake, are neat and tidy, well maintained and NONE of them belong to any Militia.

You are making some really large generalizations, that I believe to be inaccurate. I think perhaps you know that they are inaccurate.

Don't use large generalizations, says the retard who just generally described right wingers as fundamental Christian anti-government yahoos.

These idiots know that most so-called "RightWingers" are Constitutionalists. But then these same people are the same ones that deny the Founders and what the Founders gave to them...therefore they have to destroy it. (And mind you even the Founders gave them the Liberty to do so at their peril).

 

[The T]

Where's Mr T? Lost Soul? Guatama?

I see Patek is still around, so they musta missed him in the round up.....

Where's who?

SWEET!!!

Mr. T's posted bail! Congrats.

LOL. You know better than that Mr. X...I'm over on Conservaspace...ALOT. AND Working...ALOT.

 

[Vast LWC]

LOL... So basically a rightwinger is whatever you need a rightwinger to be...

Certainly the list that I mentioned does not in any way cover the full extent of political and moral ideals that exist in the world. Not even close.

Which makes that statement utterly Hyperbolic and false.

The Nazis, for instance... BIG Believers in big, powerful centralized government... Yet, I'd bet my shiniest nickle that there no convincing you that the Nazis were something other than rightwingers.

Monarchies are pretty centralized dictatorship-like governments, are they also socialist states?

And I did not say the Nazi's were "Right-Wingers", I said they were not socialists.

As far as being anti-government... I seem to recall you being fairly heavily camped in the Anti-Bush government crowd.

Last time I checked the Liberals were demanding that they believed in Liberty.... Not too many right wing liberals floatin' around.

I thought Bush was a moron, and that he made continuously bad decisions. I personally did not question the government's ability to make those decisions, as per the constitution. There's a difference.

Atheism is a fundamental Religion... can't say that I've run across too many rightwing atheists...

Atheism is not a "Fundamental Religion", it is (with all due respect to my Athiest fellow-posters), a crock of shit.

If you state that belief in God is a fools enterprise because you don't have proof, then certainly stating definitively that there is NO God is just as bad, because you have no proof that God DOESN'T exist either.

That's why I'm an agnostic, not an atheist.

And I've talked to many a Leftist who was none too happy about taxation... Spent about a thousand hours debating Leftists for 8 years, recently who were OUTRAGED that they were being taxed to pay for American Imperialism...

There are always exceptions to rules. And they weren't complaining about paying taxes IN GENERAL, just paying for a specific cause that they happened to disagree with.

ROFL... Yep kids... I am THAT good... And No... I hadn't read this far down the thread when I began the response.



As I said, just because they're advocating for another '-ism'; just because they're touting from another facet than the one you're standing on, doesn't mean that they're not working off the same jewel...

National Socialists are every BIT the Socialists as that of the international variety; they just happen to be more pragmatic; more practical...



Benito Mussolini? The editor of the largest Socialist Periodical in Europe? The life long Socialists? That Mussolini?

Yes, that Mussolini. He broke with Socialism in 1915, and was expelled from the Italian Socialist party.

Yep... that's what I'm sayin'... at least the toothless 'rightwing extremist' that you erroneously believe exist.

As I said the Rightwingers are fully employed; probably self employed or are on the front line of public service, in the Police fire-fighter or US military...

Michigan has plenty of those folks... and many of them have cabins int he woods... which usually sit along a lake, are neat and tidy, well maintained and NONE of them belong to any Militia.

I've seen no evidence that you're capable of thinking... Again... I'll let it play out... I've nothing invested here. I've stated my opinion based upon the reasoning which I've stated that rest such rest upon.

There's nothing 'rightwing' about the goals which the indictment lays out; for which these clowns were arrested; as such, it's fairly unlikely that they're rightwingers... if extreme can be used to define them and the rightwing; the only way that works is: "They're extremely unlikely to be Rightwingers."

Again kids... the template is that because they were plotting to murder some local cops, that they were anti-government.

The French Revolutionaries were anti-government... and there wasn't a rightwinger anywhere NEAR that crowd. The Bolsheviks were anti-government; not much 'Right" about them at ALL...

All of Leftists are anti-government right up until thy become the government at which time they're ALL FOR IT and in a BIG WAY.

Throw me the keys to the government and you'll see the entire ideological Leftwing world become anti-Government OVERNIGHT!

These clowns were lazy ass drunks, who were pissed off because the government had cut their ass off... IN A STATE WHERE THE UNEMPLOYMENT GOES ON FOR OVER A YEAR! They believe that the Government had screwed 'em... and NOT because the government was too BIG... but because it WASN'T BIG ENOUGH!

Just wait...

Now as I said, the long odds are, that these morons will plea-out. Whoever set this up DOES NOT want it going to trial.

That we do not already have everything that can be known about these idiots plastered ALL OVER THE NEWS... is all ya really need to know who they are.

If they were 'Right wing Extremists"... meaning regular Church attendees; responsible people; pro-life Republicans... there'd be NO ESCAPING that information.

Yet there's a thundering silence, where we might otherwise expect there to be a gush of minutia.

So yuck it up clown... I've book marked these threads... and when it finally leaks out that they're Unemployed Union tools... I'll be there for ya.

Shall we make a bet on that? I figure I have at least an 80% chance of being right just based on the raw numbers, and I'm quite sure that I'm right otherwise.

 

[xotoxi]

You aren't required to prove negatives, cupcake. When people make accusations, if they don't back them up, it isn't the onus of the attacked to "prove" said incident didn't happen...when it was never proved it DID happen.

No one knows to whom you are speaking and about what you are speaking.

 

[Dr Grump]

...I'm over on Conservaspace...ALOT..

...and who are we to stop you staying there...please do!

 

[Vast LWC]

Define it. And NO Dictionary allowed. YOUR own words...GO!

Right-winger or Libertarian?

"Right-winger" I defined above, so I guess you mean "Libertarian".

A Libertarian is a person who believes in the minimalization of Government oversight and responsibility.

Many people today who call themselves "Libertarian" however, have narrowed their minimalist views to only apply to fiscal issues, and believe in the legislation of morality in such areas as sexuality. Also different in many modern so-called Libertarians is a belief that the US should be projecting it's military might across the globe.

Ron Paul is an example of a classic Libertarian. Sean Hannity is a modern, so-called "Libertarian".

It was highlighted for you...You Fail.

Yeah... Since I had defined "Right-Winger" in my previous post, I imagined that you didn't need me to repeat myself. Apparently, you have some reading comprehension issues...

 

[Vast LWC]

These idiots know that most so-called "RightWingers" are Constitutionalists. But then these same people are the same ones that deny the Founders and what the Founders gave to them...therefore they have to destroy it. (And mind you even the Founders gave them the Liberty to do so at their peril).

The term "Constitutionalist" is utterly devoid of any useful meaning.

Your interpretation of the Constitution is different from other folk's interpretation.

That doesn't make your interpretation the correct one.

Therefore, "Constitutionalist", which implies a desire to preserve the Constitution against some sort of "Anti-Constitutionalist", is a jingoistic and rhetorical term.

 

[AllieBaba]

You aren't required to prove negatives, cupcake. When people make accusations, if they don't back them up, it isn't the onus of the attacked to "prove" said incident didn't happen...when it was never proved it DID happen.

No one knows to whom you are speaking and about what you are speaking.

Sure they do.

 

[Vast LWC]

Who the fuck cares if they are right-wingers or left-wingers?

They are dangerous people and they were stopped.

For that, we should be pleased.

Word. That is very true. I'd rep you again, but it's been too soon since the last one.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

It's also a sign of maturity to admit that of all the ridiculous, bizarro claims made against "right wingers" in the last few weeks, NONE of them have been true. Not the brick story, not the racist epithet story, not the spitting story, nor any of the "extremist" stories.

It pays to be sceptical untll the facts are known - we're all a bit prone to believe bad stuff about the other side though so I'll admit to a little of my own immaturity in that case but you're right, if something is proven bullshit then it has to be openly condemned as such. Reduces the temperature in discussions a little at least.

I am skeptical about all such claims until they are proven true or false.

But I feel I also must point out that this statement:

of all the ridiculous, bizarro claims made against "right wingers" in the last few weeks, NONE of them have been true.

Is completely false. While one should be skeptical, one also must be skeptical of cross-the-board accusations of falsehood with no supporting data provided.

ROFLMNAO...

Oh the SWEET IRONY!

You've just lamented 'cross the board accusation of falsehood with no supporting data being provided... in the SAME BREATH AS YOUR CROSS THE BOARD ACCUSATION OF FALSEHOOD WITH NO SUPPORTING DATA BEING PROVIDED!

And my favorite part is ya did it with SUCH CONVICTION and absolute IGNORANCE that you were doing so.

Absolutely PRECIOUS!

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Who the fuck cares if they are right-wingers or left-wingers?

They are dangerous people and they were stopped.

For that, we should be pleased.

Word. That is very true. I'd rep you again, but it's been too soon since the last one.

I've got no problem with 'em being indicted... my problem is the assertion that they're something besides what they are... Unemployed Union Democrats out to stick to the MAN!

The reason that it matters... is because when we deceive ourselves about what the problem is... we can't fix it.

 

[Vast LWC]

ROFLMNAO...

Oh the SWEET IRONY!

You've just lamented 'cross the board accusation of falsehood with no supporting data being provided... in the SAME BREATH AS YOUR CROSS THE BOARD ACCUSATION OF FALSEHOOD WITH NO SUPPORTING DATA BEING PROVIDED!

And my favorite part is ya did it with SUCH CONVICTION and absolute IGNORANCE that you were doing so.

Absolutely PRECIOUS!

I'm not really sure what you are referring to.

The people involved in the terrorist plot referred to in the OP are alleged terrorists, until proven guilty. They are also allegedly right-wingers according to the same documentation.

But I am inclined to believe indictments from the FBI much more than I am inclined to believe the partisan hacks on the media. That's why I posted a link to the actual indictment earlier in the thread.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

So yuck it up clown... I've book marked these threads... and when it finally leaks out that they're Unemployed Union tools... I'll be there for ya.

Who the fuck cares if they are right-wingers or left-wingers?

They are dangerous people and they were stopped.

For that, we should be pleased.

Don't worry about Pub X, he's working through DSM-IV TR and acting out

'

Oh... another default concession?

My goodness.... they're coming steady now..

 

[Vast LWC]

And I feel I really must point out at this juncture that:

1. I do not feel that the acts of these terrorists are representative of all right-wingers. As I stated earlier, I feel that there are a wide range of viewpoints encapsulated in the term "right-winger" and one cannot generalize overmuch.

2. If similar acts were conducted by folks on the left-wing, I would have an equal amount of disdain toward their actions.

and

3. Radicals and extremists such as these come in all stripes, and the right wing holds no monopoly on crazed murderous fanatics.

 

[AllieBaba]

You don't know that they're right wingers at all, dingbat.

 

[Vast LWC]

You don't know that they're right wingers at all, dingbat.

Well, I thought I was being conciliatory and rational with my last post. Oh well.

 

[AllieBaba]

You said you didn't think they represent all right wingers.
Which is saying they're right wingers.
You were polite about it though.

 

[Political Junky]

You don't know that they're right wingers at all, dingbat.

Well, I thought I was being conciliatory and rational with my last post. Oh well.

You were, indeed. Nothing you say will placate him.