Zone1 Christian Proselytizing

[buttercup]

It's nothing personal on my end; he just asserts wrong Christian beliefs. For example: Christians must be vegans. He has no basis for this other than his own noggin. I called him on it and of course, he doesn't like that. So now I'm on ignore.

Let him speak for himself. You're doing the same thing to him you did to me a couple weeks ago, you tried speaking for me. Not cool at all. Especially when the person you're speaking for is not around to defend themselves.

I have never heard him say Christians "must" be vegans. Keyword must, which implies it's mandatory. It's also dishonest for you to say he "has no basis for this" because #1 that's a strawman, I'm fairly certain he has never claimed Christians MUST be vegan, and #2, you made it sound like there's no basis for biblical veganism, and that is a big fat lie. Of course there's a basis, a very strong basis, we've been over this numerous times, but it's off topic so I won't get into it here.

 

[SweetSue92]

Let him speak for himself. You're doing the same thing to him you did to me a couple weeks ago, you tried speaking for me. Not cool at all. Especially when the person you're speaking for is not around to defend themselves.

I have never heard him say Christians "must" be vegans. Keyword must, which implies it's mandatory. It's also dishonest for you to say he "has no basis" for this, because #1 that's a strawman, I'm fairly certain he has never claimed Christians MUST be vegan, and #2, you made it sound like there's no basis for biblical veganism, and that is a big fat lie. Of course there's a basis, a very strong basis, we've been over this numerous times, but it's off topic so I won't get into it here.

As I have said many times, any Christian may be vegan if they're convinced this is the right thing for them. I have absolutely no problem with that. I DO have a problem when Christians tell other Christians they must be vegans or they're sinning.

 

[buttercup]

As I have said many times, any Christian may be vegan if they're convinced this is the right thing for them. I have absolutely no problem with that. I DO have a problem when Christians tell other Christians they must be vegans or they're sinning.

Again, I have never seen him say "you must be a vegan" to you. Can you provide a specific quote?

And again, I don't want to speak for him... but if he DID say or imply that Christians are sinning, I think it's safe to say he was probably talking about the attitudes and practices that go along with the status quo. For example, it is a demonstrable fact that there is absolutely horrible (even diabolical) cruelty that goes on in factory farms. So when you're a meat-eater who buys meat or dairy at the store or if you go to restaurants, you are paying for that cruelty. Do you deny that? Now, I think most Christians don't realize that, so there's a difference between sincere unawareness, and KNOWINGLY paying for cruelty. Ever heard of the saying "when you know better, do better"?

So IF he was talking about Christians sinning, he was most likely referring to those who KNOW about that yet continue to support it, because they are putting their own carnal desire to eat flesh first, above being merciful. And make no mistake, God commands us to be merciful, throughout the bible. That is another undeniable fact.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Look how this bitter woman derails a thread about how Christians proselytize.

This must be a sore point for her since this thread has absolutely NOTHING to do with this topic.

This was actually a thread I hoped to get the atheists POV. I know how it makes me feel when a typical Protestants approaches me with their message. Same with the Mormons and JWs. Of course they all think they are followers of the Way and they assume "we" are ignorant.

I had hoped this could be a good thread where EVERYONE could talk about their views and how Christians could reach others without coming across preachy and not driving them away. Including the Jews. I actually have more common ground with the Jews than the "christians" who follow Rome

But this bitter woman wants to make any thread I post about veganism.

Does she know the true Jerusalem Church was vegan?

Does she know Peter's diet was bread and olives? Matthew ate only nuts, seeds, and a few vegetables.

The Church of God in Jerusalem were actually MOCKED over this by the writers of the Roman church several hundred years later. Some simply recorded it but some mocked the true church

I will follow their example and not some angry woman 2,000 years later who embraces the Church of Rome.

Carry on bitter Sue. Make this thread what you want.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Jesus was clear: "go out and make disciples of all nations.". But HOW is the problem.

Today I was at a supermarket and while going to my car a friend of my older brother's stopped me mostly to ask about him. I didnt recognize the guy but I remember his name.

I was walking to my car and he came back and said, "I don't know if you're interested, but this is from my church" and he walked away.

It was one of those oldstyle comic book Bible tracts (how do you know if you're going to heaven).

Before he walked away I said, "not really (interested). I have my own beliefs."

I firmly understand the saying, "Nobody wants to be someone's mission field."

I had a JW try to talk to me, and I'm not rude, but I make it clear that I don't share their beliefs (in some things I do).

Then he offered me his Watch Tower and I graciously accepted it UNTIL he asked my to pay him for it. So I handed it back.

While the practice is biblical, there seems to be something off when I compare it to the lives the apostles lived. Somehow I just can't see them passing out comic book tracts

As atheist Christopher Hitchens said, if Christians really believed in what they say they do, they’d have to really hate me to not try to convert me.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

As atheist Christopher Hitchens said, if Christians really believed in what they say they do, they’d have to really hate me to not try to convert me.

Thanks for bringing this thread back on track

Some of us believe if God is CALLING a person in this life is they'd know it and want to seek out the Truth.

His view comes from the standard Protestant view that this is the only day of salvation. That's not my belief.

He may die without understanding the truth, but after Christ returns (1,000 years after), all the dead will be raised up and given the chance they were never given. That is their "Day of Salvation"

 

[Meriweather]

Jesus was clear: "go out and make disciples of all nations.". But HOW is the problem.

The root of 'disciple' in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, French, English is the same. It is the word for 'student'. In Jesus day there was a relationship between teacher and student that often lasted a lifetime. The student would do as the teacher did.

First question: Are handing out pamphlets and knocking on doors a teacher-student relationship?

Second question: What, precisely, are we teaching each nation? Isn't it love of God, love of neighbor? How can we in America love other nations when we clearly do not love those in our own nation?

This was actually a thread I hoped to get the atheists POV

I live among atheists. Among those I know best, they suggest proselytizers practice their own faith and leave everyone else alone. They have a point.

 

[Meriweather]

As atheist Christopher Hitchens said, if Christians really believed in what they say they do, they’d have to really hate me to not try to convert me.

Should we put our effort into converting or should our effort be in loving God and loving all? Converting is kind of a distraction.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

How can we in America love other nations when we clearly do not love those in our own nation?

That's a pretty broad generalization.
Do you hate your neighbor?

Do you not want all nations to succeed?

You don't, but everyone else does?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Should we put our effort into converting or should our effort be in loving God and loving all? Converting is kind of a distraction.

"Go and make disciples of all nations"-- Jesus

 

[Meriweather]

That's a pretty broad generalization.

It makes a specific point: How are Americans--especially those in opposing political parties--getting along? How well do they respect and love the other?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

What does therefore go and make disciples of all nations mean?


The command to “go and make disciples” has for many decades been understood to be synonymous with “go and make converts.” In other words, go out to evangelize nonbelievers and help them come to faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I live among atheists. Among those I know best, they suggest proselytizers practice their own faith and leave everyone else alone. They have a point

Jesus' COMMAND is clear.

The focus of this thread is HOW?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

It makes a specific point: How are Americans--especially those in opposing political parties--getting along? How well do they respect and love the other?

So, by your own admission, as an American you don't have any business "teaching" others on this messageboard until "we all get along."

Why are you posting if you're not here to "educate" (as you understand it)?

Kind of hypocritical on your part, don't you think?

 

[Meriweather]

has for many decades been understood to be synonymous with “go and make converts.”

I am interested in what it meant when Jesus said it.

 

[Meriweather]

So, by your own admission, as an American you don't have any business "teaching" others on this messageboard until "we all get along."

The point is, How can a nation teach other nations to love if it first cannot show love of itself and love from within? This is not a lot for students to expect when they want a teacher or an example from which to learn. When one wishes to teach, one must first manifest knowledge and experience of what will be taught.

 

[Meriweather]

Why are you posting if you're not here to "educate" (as you understand it)?

Me, personally? Mainly I am here as a testing or sounding board. I like ideas. People can toss ideas at me to see how they bounce back. If they take an odd bounce, can they still field the play. This is a practice field. People are here to become better and more proficient in both expressing and understanding their own beliefs.

 

[Meriweather]

Kind of hypocritical on your part, don't you think?

Apparently it is what you think, and as it is your thread, that is what matters. I saw your thread was going a little off track and thought perhaps I could help. Obviously, I was wrong, but I do wish your thread becomes all you had hoped for.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Should we put our effort into converting or should our effort be in loving God and loving all? Converting is kind of a distraction.

The Great Commission given to us by God is your answer.

Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

You have one purpose in life - fulfilling that instruction.

 

[buttercup]

Converting is kind of a distraction.

Wow. That is sig-worthy. But not in a good way.

I want to reply to the things you've been saying here, but I have to get back later, when I have more time.