Christian bakers who refused cake order for gay wedding forced to close shop

[Alfalfa]

I still say that if we truly believe in freedom, liberty, and the American way, everybody is entitled to their own opinions and convictions about anything so long as they do not try to force thise opinions and convictions upon others. Which is exactly what you do when you boycott this business for no other reason than you don't like what they think--you are forcing your opinions and convictions upon them.

You folks condoning the destruction of this "Christian" bakery would almost certainly be condemning a boycott of a gay business or Muslim business or minority business that said they didn't condone Christianity or that spoke against traditional marriage or declined to provide services for that KKK convention or whatever.

We can't have it both ways without being totally hypocritical people. Either a person has an unalienable right to their own beliefs and convictions or they don't. And if it is okay to destroy a Christian business because they don't condone gay marriage, it logically follows that it is okay to destroy anybody who holds a belief or convictions that you don't share. And we become Stalinist Russia or worse instead of America.

To destroy these people purely because they hold a conviction and belief that you consider bigoted is far more evil and sinister than any bigotry could ever be.

Of course you can have your own beliefs and convictions, you just can't put them in action through your business that serves the general public.

How hard is this to understand, really?

 

[Foxfyre]

It wasn't a boycott that forced the baker out of business. It was the level of threatened violence to them and their customers.

Well the people applauding their demise are constantly using the phrase 'boycott' but you're right. It wasn't a boycott, even though an organized boycott of a business, purely because you don't like the opinions of the owner, is evil. Those condoning the demise of the business are condoning the most hateful rhetoric and threats and justify it because the owners of the business are bigots.

Well who isn't bigoted about somethng? I daresay anybody who says he isn't is a liar. And a free people are allowed to be as bigoted as they want to be with impunity. The law says they are not allowed to impose their bigotry in a way that violates the unalienable rights of another. And that is a just law. But just to be bigoted? That is also an unalienable right.

If people can be deliberately destroyed with impunity simply because they are politically incorrect, that is pure evil. That does deny others their unalienable rights. And this is no longer America.

 

[Alfalfa]

It wasn't a boycott that forced the baker out of business. It was the level of threatened violence to them and their customers.

According to whom?

 

[emilynghiem]

Whoa Foxfyre, really? I have greater respect for Conservatives and Christians for being consistent in standards, but here you are mixing two things.

Nothing is wrong with boycotting or voting with dollars, that is free market choice.
I AGREE with you that attacking an anti-gay stance with the same vitriole opposed,
IS INDEED hypocritical.

But that is separate from deciding who you patronize with your dollars or your votes.

FF, it sounds like to me if BOTH parties were unforgiving and hostile to the other,
then they destroyed themselves equally.

I've seen plenty of people on both sides not go that far, and manage to keep it within reason.

Please distinguish the real hating which I agree is hypocritical, from people who
have the right to refrain in civilized ways.

Again I totally AGREE it is wrong to wreak destruction on others, and find that
is equally self-destructive. So FF when you go overboard, you destroy your
credibility also, when actually there is a good point underneath that.

I agree it makes no sense to exclude anti-gay views.
Just don't go so overly ballistic that you make the same mistake as both sides already do when they go overboard as well. Let's just allow people to separate out and not
force either one on the other. Isn't that the best way to avoid all this harassing conflict???

======================================================

I still say that if we truly believe in freedom, liberty, and the American way, everybody is entitled to their own opinions and convictions about anything so long as they do not try to force thise opinions and convictions upon others. Which is exactly what you do when you boycott this business for no other reason than you don't like what they think--you are forcing your opinions and convictions upon them.

You folks condoning the destruction of this "Christian" bakery would almost certainly be condemning a boycott of a gay business or Muslim business or minority business that said they didn't condone Christianity or that spoke against traditional marriage or declined to provide services for that KKK convention or whatever.

We can't have it both ways without being totally hypocritical people. Either a person has an unalienable right to their own beliefs and convictions or they don't. And if it is okay to destroy a Christian business because they don't condone gay marriage, it logically follows that it is okay to destroy anybody who hold a belief or convictions that you don't share.

To destroy these people purely because they hold a conviction and belief that you consider bigoted is far more evil and sinister than any bigotry could ever be.

Yeah, why am I not surprised. First you were for, FORCING, me to buy into your SS ponzi scheme. Now you you are for, FORCING, me to buy cupcakes from homophobe bigots. And forcing people to never protest against racism and bigotry because that would be anti-American.

WOW

I'd ask to let her finish venting and grieving.
I don't blame pro-gay people for going overboard with their grief.
So of course, that's only fair to the other side to let them do the same back.
After that, maybe we can find ways to work more reasonably, but not when
people are screaming in anger and fed up in grief! Let them grieve!

 

[emilynghiem]

It wasn't a boycott that forced the baker out of business. It was the level of threatened violence to them and their customers.

Well the people applauding their demise are constantly using the phrase 'boycott' but you're right. It wasn't a boycott, even though an organized boycott of a business purely because you don't like the opinions of the owner, is evil. Those condoning the demise of the business are condoning the most hateful rhetoric and threats and justify it because the owners of the business are bigots.

Well who isn't bigoted about somethng? I daresay anybody who says he isn't is a liar. And a free people are allowed to be as bigoted as they want to be with impunity. The law says they are not allowed to impose their bigotry in a way that violates the unalienable rights of another. And that is a just law. But just to be bigoted? That is also an unalienable right.

But if we can be destroyed simply because we are politically incorrect, that is pure evil. And this is no longer America.

1. Whoa Whoa Whoa
So condoning an action is supporting/condoning the beliefs that went into it?

So if we condone American businesses that depend on slave labor in India/China,
does that mean we agree with human rights abuses???

??? x ??? x ???

FF, just because we forgive and accept some things does not mean we agree or approve.

2. And what you say about the right to be bigots.
OK so why can't the boycotters be bigots too?
What are you saying here?

A. I agree that responding to verbal or ideological conflicts
with "physical harassment and damage" is disproportionate and wrong

B. but it is fine for the owner to have their views, bigoted or not,
and for the boycotters to have their, bigoted or not

Can we agree where the actions went too far is when
people started physically harassing and abusing each other?

But you seem to agree yourself, that the bigotry is tolerable
as given, whether or not we agree with it, people have that anyway.

Don't we agree here, more than we disagree?

I think you are just outraged as the next person
when people only see one side and not the other.

 

[Alfalfa]

"The Kleins say they’re now closing up their doors and moving their operations to their home. Their business, they say, has suffered a serious revenue hit from the unexpected activism and backlash."

Funny, the Kleins seem to disagree with you. Are you channeling?

 

[WorldWatcher]

>


Interesting. I never heard that boycotts were "evil" during all the years the AFA was calling for all types of boycotts for gay friendly businesses.

Now that a boycott has occurred supporting a gay couple, suddenly it's "evil".



Wow how time change.



>>>>

 

[Katzndogz]

It wasn't a boycott that forced the baker out of business. It was the level of threatened violence to them and their customers.

Well the people applauding their demise are constantly using the phrase 'boycott' but you're right. It wasn't a boycott, even though an organized boycott of a business purely because you don't like the opinions of the owner, is evil. Those condoning the demise of the business are condoning the most hateful rhetoric and threats and justify it because the owners of the business are bigots.

Well who isn't bigoted about somethng? I daresay anybody who says he isn't is a liar. And a free people are allowed to be as bigoted as they want to be with impunity. The law says they are not allowed to impose their bigotry in a way that violates the unalienable rights of another. And that is a just law. But just to be bigoted? That is also an unalienable right.

But if we can be destroyed simply because we are politically incorrect, that is pure evil. And this is no longer America.

Boycotts don't work. If there isn't some level of violence a mere boycott will fail. The gay boycott of Chick Fil A failed. The boycott of JC Penney failed (although Penneys is still going to go under.

This is no longer America. That you have right.

Christians will just have to get used to having two businesses. One open to the public and another one that doesn't advertise and isn't open to the public.

Have you ever gone to San Francisco? In China town the bigger restaurants have two dining rooms. One that anyone can go into and one in the back for Chinese people only. The menu is in Chinese and it's entirely different from the Americanized Chinese food in the main dining room. That's the way Christians will have to learn to operate. Like the bakery and photographer I posted before. Hidden services.

 

[bodecea]

I still say that if we truly believe in freedom, liberty, and the American way, everybody is entitled to their own opinions and convictions about anything so long as they do not try to force thise opinions and convictions upon others. Which is exactly what you do when you boycott this business for no other reason than you don't like what they think--you are forcing your opinions and convictions upon them.

You folks condoning the destruction of this "Christian" bakery would almost certainly be condemning a boycott of a gay business or Muslim business or minority business that said they didn't condone Christianity or that spoke against traditional marriage or declined to provide services for that KKK convention or whatever.

We can't have it both ways without being totally hypocritical people. Either a person has an unalienable right to their own beliefs and convictions or they don't. And if it is okay to destroy a Christian business because they don't condone gay marriage, it logically follows that it is okay to destroy anybody who holds a belief or convictions that you don't share. And we become Stalinist Russia or worse instead of America.

To destroy these people purely because they hold a conviction and belief that you consider bigoted is far more evil and sinister than any bigotry could ever be.

No you are not. You are choosing to not shop there. I'd hate to think you believe people should be forced to shop where they don't want to.

 

[bodecea]

It wasn't a boycott that forced the baker out of business. It was the level of threatened violence to them and their customers.

Not according to them. Or are they lying?

 

[Alfalfa]

It wasn't a boycott that forced the baker out of business. It was the level of threatened violence to them and their customers.

Well the people applauding their demise are constantly using the phrase 'boycott' but you're right. It wasn't a boycott, even though an organized boycott of a business purely because you don't like the opinions of the owner, is evil. Those condoning the demise of the business are condoning the most hateful rhetoric and threats and justify it because the owners of the business are bigots.

Well who isn't bigoted about somethng? I daresay anybody who says he isn't is a liar. And a free people are allowed to be as bigoted as they want to be with impunity. The law says they are not allowed to impose their bigotry in a way that violates the unalienable rights of another. And that is a just law. But just to be bigoted? That is also an unalienable right.

But if we can be destroyed simply because we are politically incorrect, that is pure evil. And this is no longer America.

It was a boycott. Nobody boycotted "purely because you don't like the opinions of the owner", they boycotted because the owners took it that extra step of physically denying service to customers for no other reason then they were homos.

Nobody is endorsing hateful rhetoric and threats (if indeed they did happen), you just made that up because you're argument is weak and you needed some sensationalizing to breath some life into it.

 

[Alfalfa]

It wasn't a boycott that forced the baker out of business. It was the level of threatened violence to them and their customers.

Well the people applauding their demise are constantly using the phrase 'boycott' but you're right. It wasn't a boycott, even though an organized boycott of a business purely because you don't like the opinions of the owner, is evil. Those condoning the demise of the business are condoning the most hateful rhetoric and threats and justify it because the owners of the business are bigots.

Well who isn't bigoted about somethng? I daresay anybody who says he isn't is a liar. And a free people are allowed to be as bigoted as they want to be with impunity. The law says they are not allowed to impose their bigotry in a way that violates the unalienable rights of another. And that is a just law. But just to be bigoted? That is also an unalienable right.

But if we can be destroyed simply because we are politically incorrect, that is pure evil. And this is no longer America.

Boycotts don't work. If there isn't some level of violence a mere boycott will fail. The gay boycott of Chick Fil A failed. The boycott of JC Penney failed (although Penneys is still going to go under.

This is no longer America. That you have right.

Christians will just have to get used to having two businesses. One open to the public and another one that doesn't advertise and isn't open to the public.

Have you ever gone to San Francisco? In China town the bigger restaurants have two dining rooms. One that anyone can go into and one in the back for Chinese people only. The menu is in Chinese and it's entirely different from the Americanized Chinese food in the main dining room. That's the way Christians will have to learn to operate. Like the bakery and photographer I posted before. Hidden services.

This makes no sense at all. Are you suggesting in the future a christian bakery such as this one will have a back room for christians only that will be filled with talking snakes along with cakes? The homos still get their cakes out front though so i don't know what the purpose of the backroom would be. Flagellation and bloodletting? Child molestation?

 

[Katzndogz]

One thing is certain, these "homos" won't be able to buy anything from this bakery ever again. Not even a sugar cookie.

They will have to find another bakery, just as they would have had to do to bake their cake.

 

[Foxfyre]

One thing is certain, these "homos" won't be able to buy anything from this bakery ever again. Not even a sugar cookie.

They will have to find another bakery, just as they would have had to do to bake their cake.

Only because the bakery is closed. Had they continued to visit the bakery as it once existed, I am confident they would continue to be treated as any other customer as they already were. It was not THEM that the bakers objected to but the bakers did not want to be part of a same sex marriage which they did not condone. If the hatemongers who went after those bakers, tooth and nail, had any integrity, they would track down every single Californian (or in any other state) who voted against same sex marriage and subject them to the same vile treatment.

What happened to the bakery owners is evil. It should never happen in a free America.

 

[TemplarKormac]

You do realize that SOCON's frequently call for boycotts of businesses they perceive as "gay friendly" right?

The boycott is not just the tool of the liberals.



>>>>>

Heck, I'd buy from a gay store owner anytime. But I'm not going to force my beliefs on him. Nor will I sic militant Christian or Christian activist groups on his business if he refuses to serve me. He has a living to make just as much as I would. Gee, what a concept!

Make up your mind. Are you or are you not trying to force your belief on us that we should be intolerant of gays because of this incident where some gays supposedly ran this baker out of business. Yes or no.

I have never tried to force my beliefs on anyone. And it is not my place to tell you what you should believe. It is arrogant presumption to think I have such a power. No.
I am merely stating my opinion. As I said before, you have an issue with me stating it. Perhaps you should, perhaps you shouldn't. But as for myself I condemn it. And I would condemn it if the roles were reversed. There is no place in this universe or the next for that type of behavior.

 

[paperview]

It wasn't a boycott that forced the baker out of business. It was the level of threatened violence to them and their customers.

Well the people applauding their demise are constantly using the phrase 'boycott' but you're right. It wasn't a boycott, even though an organized boycott of a business purely because you don't like the opinions of the owner, is evil. Those condoning the demise of the business are condoning the most hateful rhetoric and threats and justify it because the owners of the business are bigots.

Well who isn't bigoted about somethng? I daresay anybody who says he isn't is a liar. And a free people are allowed to be as bigoted as they want to be with impunity. The law says they are not allowed to impose their bigotry in a way that violates the unalienable rights of another. And that is a just law. But just to be bigoted? That is also an unalienable right.

But if we can be destroyed simply because we are politically incorrect, that is pure evil. And this is no longer America.

It was a boycott. Nobody boycotted "purely because you don't like the opinions of the owner", they boycotted because the owners took it that extra step of physically denying service to customers for no other reason then they were homos.

Nobody is endorsing hateful rhetoric and threats (if indeed they did happen), you just made that up because you're argument is weak and you needed some sensationalizing to breath some life into it.

Bingo.

BTW: Welcome to the forum Alfalfa.

Great to see you here!

 

[Foxfyre]

To destroy somebody purely because they hold a convicton you don't share is evil.

 

[Katzndogz]

One thing is certain, these "homos" won't be able to buy anything from this bakery ever again. Not even a sugar cookie.

They will have to find another bakery, just as they would have had to do to bake their cake.

Only because the bakery is closed. Had they continued to visit the bakery as it once exised, I am confident they would continue to be treated as any other customer as they already were.

What happened to the bakery owners is evil. It should never happen in a free America.

This isn't a free America! That much should be evident. The bakery will go on, it will get a different business model, the owners, no matter how much the gays wished it, are not dead. They will succeed in a different way. They just won't be advertising wedding cakes any more. They might end up more successful than they were.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Foxfyre: I admire your convictions in standing up against something you know to be wrong. It is equally wrong to shut down a gay business for being gay as a Christian anti-gay business for defending their beliefs also. I agree this is terribly wrong and hurtful, and against
the equal inclusion and tolerance we Americans pride ourselves on. We are going through a difficult learning curve and tend to go off the road when we fight to be in charge of driving.

You inspire me, Foxfyre, why not you and me start a Kickstarter or CrowdRise fundraiser for this business to "give away" free cakes to all couples who ask provided they go through spiritual healing which has been known to heal homosexuality that is caused by abuse.
If people are naturally homosexual, the healing helps them to be even less affected by negativity because it strengthens their ability to forgive. So it causes no harm to either case of orientation, natural or unnatural. But for unnatural conditions, the spiritual healing rids people of the conflicts that otherwise create these other problems.

So this will help promote the true, free and effective methods of healing that HAVE healed homosexuality, and prevent this type of forgiveness therapy from being censored along with the hurtful fraudulent types of false faith healing or false conversion therapy causing so much damage that even Christian leaders like Christie called for it to be banned!

Please consider channeling your anger at such injustice toward a remedy.

If you like this idea, I think I know 2 people in baking, one who is a young conservative small business entrepreneur. And we can start a service to provide free cakes to businesses facing this issue. The donees just need to ask in time to order these special.
And will receive free books on spiritual healing of homosexuality or whatever Christians want to donate with each order.

There is a way to turn lemons into lemonade.

Please consider this and let me know how I can help that business or other
to find a positive solution that doesnt harm anyone but spreads charity and faith
in forgiveness to correct all wrongs.

Yours truly,
Emily

Some resources I refer:
http://www.christinhealingmin.org
Dr. MacNutt wrote a concise book on tolerating
homosexuality while healing cases caused by abuse.
This is inexpensive enough, maybe we can ask large ministries
to donate copies and cakes to give out every time a gay couple
requests a member bakery to order and deliver a cake for them!

 

[Alfalfa]

One thing is certain, these "homos" won't be able to buy anything from this bakery ever again. Not even a sugar cookie.

They will have to find another bakery, just as they would have had to do to bake their cake.

Except this "new" bakery will think twice about refusing them service based on their sexual orientation.

Oh snap. See how that works?