Christian bakers who refused cake order for gay wedding forced to close shop

[TemplarKormac]

No. The bakery was put out of business by it's owners. The owners lost their business when their customers abandoned them. Their customers abandoned them because the bakery owner refused to serve to a gay couple at a gay wedding. If the baker had taken the funds from the "gay" wedding and donated it to a christian charity, then the baker would still be in business. Further if the LGBT/democrats called for a boycott because the baker donated to a charity, the christians would have trippled the baker's business.

You see, it's not about political correctness. It's about treating people as human beings.

Uh-huh.. you want gay people to be treated as human beings, but in return you allow them to dehumanize others. What a colossal double standard, Mr. Brown.

Explain please. How was the baker dehumanized? If that happened, I'll defend the baker against that act.

Uhh, by being forcefully put out of business for exercising it's beliefs by others who cannot tolerate (oh there's that word again) a differentiating opinion? Have fun!

 

[TemplarKormac]

But in both instances LGBT folks called for boycotts. Interesting is it not? They both had the intent of destroying the said business in question. This bakery was put out of business because nobody is allowed to be politically incorrect in this society.

No. The bakery was put out of business by it's owners. The owners lost their business when their customers abandoned them. Their customers abandoned them because the bakery owner refused to serve to a gay couple at a gay wedding
....

Not just refused service, the lesbian walked into a bakery and asked to have a wedding cake made. Happy repeat customer.

Owner informs her he doesn't do same-sex wedding cakes and then proceeds to tell her she was an abomination, and that her "money is not equal."

Temmy-boy leaves that part out.

Sure, what website did you pull that from? Or are you lying through your teeth?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Bigot.

Not caring is not bigotry it is apathy.

Bigot - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

I don't care what their beliefs are.

If they took a stand on their beliefs then good for them. Now they can deal with the fallout.

Seems to me no too many of their fellow Christians stepped up to support them so maybe you should be castigating them.

In the context of the question, you would act regardless of their religious beliefs. That is called intolerance, bigotry and insensitivity.

I would act? Explain. All I said was that they had the right to refuse service good for them I do not have to support them in their refusal do I? Can I not take my business elsewhere if I do not agree with their actions?

Of course I can. That is not bigotry intolerance or insensitivity.

Intolerant-

adj (foll by of )

1. lacking respect for practices and beliefs other than one's own

You are as guilty of this as you claim we are. Game. Set. Match.

Yes I have no tolerance for bigots who use religion especially a religion that states no one but god is supposed to judge people as an excuse for their bigotry.

As I said before simply baking a cake for someone in no way makes the baker liable for the sins of the customer.

The baker did not have to attend the wedding or the reception all he had to do was treat this couple like he would anyone else indeed as he himself would want to be treated. If he did that he would still be in business with happy customers referring new customers to him.

That is game set match.

 

[Katzndogz]

I'm sorry, what were you debating again? That this is not a playground where people can have fun? Or that children can't "write" messages in the sand or use chalk boards at a playground? Or that a playground for adults can't include making arguments about a baker's idiocy in loosing his business based on his hate for one of his best customers. Or are you really arguing that typing a message isn't the same as speaking the same message or writing it down in script. LOL

Funny, you brought this up, I didn't. How is it you take issue with such a minutial statement? Or were you afraid to take the rest of my argument on? This argument of yours is a strawman.

Originally, I was wondering why gay people here think it's okay to make fun of the beliefs of others, namely Christians, but then get all riled up and defensive if someone makes even the slightest quip about them.

Because I find, sometimes, that the smallest phrases one utters are in fact very telling of what is going on.

What you can't see, or at least appear to not want to see, is a bunch of guys and gals smiling, entering in messages. Your screams and declarations of expertise and demands that you alone have all the answers in the great question of should gays be allowed to live in our society are falling on deaf ears. The debate as to whether gays will be accepted members of society is over. The gay bashers had their moment in the sun with the prop 8 and DOMA acts. It's over now. Those acts upon further review, are now seen as vile. It's over. Done. The fork is in it. You are beating a dead horse. You appear to have steam coming off your head. The folks you are chatting with appear to be smiling.

Get over it. Find yourself a gay person and talk to them man to gay person and maybe you'll find out they are not all the evil whack jobs you appear to believe they are.

This is over the way Roe settled the issue of abortion. It will be fought in the courts for the next 100 years, if we last that long.

 

[RKMBrown]

Funny, you brought this up, I didn't. How is it you take issue with such a minutial statement? Or were you afraid to take the rest of my argument on? This argument of yours is a strawman.

Originally, I was wondering why gay people here think it's okay to make fun of the beliefs of others, namely Christians, but then get all riled up and defensive if someone makes even the slightest quip about them.

Because I find, sometimes, that the smallest phrases one utters are in fact very telling of what is going on.

What you can't see, or at least appear to not want to see, is a bunch of guys and gals smiling, entering in messages. Your screams and declarations of expertise and demands that you alone have all the answers in the great question of should gays be allowed to live in our society are falling on deaf ears. The debate as to whether gays will be accepted members of society is over. The gay bashers had their moment in the sun with the prop 8 and DOMA acts. It's over now. Those acts upon further review, are now seen as vile. It's over. Done. The fork is in it. You are beating a dead horse. You appear to have steam coming off your head. The folks you are chatting with appear to be smiling.

Get over it. Find yourself a gay person and talk to them man to gay person and maybe you'll find out they are not all the evil whack jobs you appear to believe they are.

This is over the way Roe settled the issue of abortion. It will be fought in the courts for the next 100 years, if we last that long.

Not the same as Roe. Roe was bad law because it fails to defend the life of a helpless child. Civil rights laws are not being "fought" are they? This is just another case of another classification of another minority group who's civil rights are being urinated on by some members of our society. Sexual orientation will be added to the laws on civil rights and the issue will be put to bed, just as the issue on racism was put to bed. Sure there will still be racists and homophobes but that does not mean the issue of civil rights is still in play. Up next, I suspect, will be plural marriages.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Not caring is not bigotry it is apathy.

Bigot - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary




I don't care what their beliefs are.

If they took a stand on their beliefs then good for them. Now they can deal with the fallout.

Seems to me no too many of their fellow Christians stepped up to support them so maybe you should be castigating them.

In the context of the question, you would act regardless of their religious beliefs. That is called intolerance, bigotry and insensitivity.

I would act? Explain. All I said was that they had the right to refuse service good for them I do not have to support them in their refusal do I? Can I not take my business elsewhere if I do not agree with their actions?

Of course I can. That is not bigotry intolerance or insensitivity.

Intolerant-

adj (foll by of )

1. lacking respect for practices and beliefs other than one's own

You are as guilty of this as you claim we are. Game. Set. Match.

Yes I have no tolerance for bigots who use religion especially a religion that states no one but god is supposed to judge people as an excuse for their bigotry.

As I said before simply baking a cake for someone in no way makes the baker liable for the sins of the customer.

The baker did not have to attend the wedding or the reception all he had to do was treat this couple like he would anyone else indeed as he himself would want to be treated. If he did that he would still be in business with happy customers referring new customers to him.

That is game set match.

Simple... how can you be intolerant of others intolerance? Does that not make you intolerant? It is for fear of being judged that you reject any form of judgement. You are incapable of accepting any criticism, and therefore lash out at it.

Perhaps if people had a conscience instead of an agenda, yes indeed, he would still be in business.

Sorry, that was match point my friend.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Because I find, sometimes, that the smallest phrases one utters are in fact very telling of what is going on.

What you can't see, or at least appear to not want to see, is a bunch of guys and gals smiling, entering in messages. Your screams and declarations of expertise and demands that you alone have all the answers in the great question of should gays be allowed to live in our society are falling on deaf ears. The debate as to whether gays will be accepted members of society is over. The gay bashers had their moment in the sun with the prop 8 and DOMA acts. It's over now. Those acts upon further review, are now seen as vile. It's over. Done. The fork is in it. You are beating a dead horse. You appear to have steam coming off your head. The folks you are chatting with appear to be smiling.

Get over it. Find yourself a gay person and talk to them man to gay person and maybe you'll find out they are not all the evil whack jobs you appear to believe they are.

This is over the way Roe settled the issue of abortion. It will be fought in the courts for the next 100 years, if we last that long.

Not the same as Roe. Roe was bad law because it fails to defend the life of a helpless child. Civil rights laws are not being "fought" are they? This is just another case of another classification of another minority group who's civil rights are being urinated on by some members of our society. Sexual orientation will be added to the laws on civil rights and the issue will be put to bed, just as the issue on racism was put to bed. Sure there will still be racists and homophobes but that does not mean the issue of civil rights is still in play. Up next, I suspect, will be plural marriages.

Does an unborn child not have civil rights too?

 

[paperview]

Yeah, apparently you people only like to read only one half of the Bible. Not only do you not like being stereotyped, you do the stereotyping. Since when have you seen packs of Christians in the streets looking for gay people to kill?
...

Did you forget the word history in there?

Geeze man. Pay attention to your own freakin' argument.

Quote: Originally Posted by TemplarKormac Oh sure. Let's see if I can't find a video describing to you all the "history" of homosexuality.

Yeah, I know my own argument. And unlike you, I have read the entire book. Also unlike you, I don't have to cherrypick verses out of a religious text to justify myself.

See, you wiggled out of Leviticus and how it was used through the centuries, just as I said you would.

There is so much irony in your posts it nearly makes the eyes bleed.

Oh, and I've read the book, (who are you to declare what I have or haven't read?) I have, more than once. Was raised by strict Catholics, had an uncle who was a priest, two aunts who were nuns, another uncle who was a missionary, a cousin who is a pastor of a large congregation, went to religious schools, and was drenched, utterly drenched in Christianity my entire upbringing.

Sort of shoots your whole "I hate Christians" and I know nothing about the religion theory all to hell.

 

[Katzndogz]

As I said before simply baking a cake for someone in no way makes the baker liable for the sins of the customer.

The baker did not have to attend the wedding or the reception all he had to do was treat this couple like he would anyone else. if he did that he would still be in business with happy customers referring new customers to him.

That is game set match.

If they participated in a same sex wedding, they are not responsible for the sins of their customer, they have committed their own, personal, sin for which they are answerable.

Yes, they would have to attend the wedding. Had they thought ahead and considered it more carefully, the baker might have agreed to bake the cake, but leave set up and construction of the tiers to the customer. This same baker had baked cakes for this same customer before. The customer ordered the cake, picked it up and took it to the birthday party. Treat the wedding cake the same way.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Did you forget the word history in there?

Geeze man. Pay attention to your own freakin' argument.

Yeah, I know my own argument. And unlike you, I have read the entire book. Also unlike you, I don't have to cherrypick verses out of a religious text to justify myself.

See, you wiggled out of Leviticus and how it was used through the centuries, just as I said you would.

There is more irony in your posts it nearly makes the eyes bleed.

Oh, and I've read the book, (who are you to declare what I have or haven't read?) I have, more than once. Was raised by strict Catholics, had an uncle who was a priest, two aunts who were nuns, another uncle who was a missionary, a cousin who is a pastor of a large congregation, went to religious schools, and was drenched, utterly drenched in Christianity my entire upbringing.

Sort of shoots your whole "I hate Christians" and I know nothing about the religion theory all to hell.

Why is it just Leviticus? Are you afraid to read the rest of the book? That crystal ball shoved up your rear end is busted, pal. You made the mistake of judging the entire religion based off of your own experiences in only one denomination.

 

[RKMBrown]

Uh-huh.. you want gay people to be treated as human beings, but in return you allow them to dehumanize others. What a colossal double standard, Mr. Brown.

Explain please. How was the baker dehumanized? If that happened, I'll defend the baker against that act.

Uhh, by being forcefully put out of business for exercising it's beliefs by others who cannot tolerate (oh there's that word again) a differentiating opinion? Have fun!

Don't run away. Explain. Cause I really don't understand what you are saying.

How were they forcefully put out of business? What actions did the LGBT community do to forcefully put this company out of business? Slander? Did they stop customers from entering? Did they spit on customers? Did they hit customers? Did they yell and threaten customers?

Or are you actually trying to say that it is my duty as a citizen to buy cake from this baker, and if I don't I'm committing a violent act against the baker.

Explain your position. I want to understand. You appear to have some knowledge about this case, that I'm not familiar with.

 

[paperview]

No. The bakery was put out of business by it's owners. The owners lost their business when their customers abandoned them. Their customers abandoned them because the bakery owner refused to serve to a gay couple at a gay wedding
....

Not just refused service, the lesbian walked into a bakery and asked to have a wedding cake made. Happy repeat customer.

Owner informs her he doesn't do same-sex wedding cakes and then proceeds to tell her she was an abomination, and that her "money is not equal."

Temmy-boy leaves that part out.

Sure, what website did you pull that from? Or are you lying through your teeth?

It's from the complaint made to the Bureau of Labor filed with the State.

Guess you don't really know much about the story, do you?

The owner doesn't deny he called them abominations before he turned them away.

 

[RKMBrown]

This is over the way Roe settled the issue of abortion. It will be fought in the courts for the next 100 years, if we last that long.

Not the same as Roe. Roe was bad law because it fails to defend the life of a helpless child. Civil rights laws are not being "fought" are they? This is just another case of another classification of another minority group who's civil rights are being urinated on by some members of our society. Sexual orientation will be added to the laws on civil rights and the issue will be put to bed, just as the issue on racism was put to bed. Sure there will still be racists and homophobes but that does not mean the issue of civil rights is still in play. Up next, I suspect, will be plural marriages.

Does an unborn child not have civil rights too?

According to current law they don't if the mother decides to kill it before the last trimester. But that's another thread.

 

[Skull Pilot]

In the context of the question, you would act regardless of their religious beliefs. That is called intolerance, bigotry and insensitivity.

I would act? Explain. All I said was that they had the right to refuse service good for them I do not have to support them in their refusal do I? Can I not take my business elsewhere if I do not agree with their actions?

Of course I can. That is not bigotry intolerance or insensitivity.

Intolerant-

adj (foll by of )

1. lacking respect for practices and beliefs other than one's own

You are as guilty of this as you claim we are. Game. Set. Match.

Yes I have no tolerance for bigots who use religion especially a religion that states no one but god is supposed to judge people as an excuse for their bigotry.

As I said before simply baking a cake for someone in no way makes the baker liable for the sins of the customer.

The baker did not have to attend the wedding or the reception all he had to do was treat this couple like he would anyone else indeed as he himself would want to be treated. If he did that he would still be in business with happy customers referring new customers to him.

That is game set match.

Simple... how can you be intolerant of others intolerance? Does that not make you intolerant?

Maybe. but I would not refuse to serve someone in my business because I thought they were intolerant. That is the very definition of tolerance now isn't it?

It is for fear of being judged that you reject any form of judgement. You are incapable of accepting any criticism, and therefore lash out at it.

I really don't care what people think about me personally. But I do care what the consequences my decisions reap may do to my business.

Perhaps if people had a conscience instead of an agenda, yes indeed, he would still be in business.

Conscience? Telling people you are unhappy with a business because they refused a simple request to serve someone has nothing to do with conscience.

It's a simple fact of business that if you piss someone off they'll tell a hundred people about it but if you treat them fantastically they might tell 5.

Which is why you do your best not to piss people off if you care about your business.

I equate this as to them refusing to serve Blacks or Jews even if it was a religious belief to turn away blacks or jews.

But that's just me. Being free of religious dogma allows me treat everyone equally. Even if i were the religious sort I would treat everyone equally and let the deity do the judging.

BTW can you tell me how baking this cake would somehow make the baker liable for the gay sin?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Not just refused service, the lesbian walked into a bakery and asked to have a wedding cake made. Happy repeat customer.

Owner informs her he doesn't do same-sex wedding cakes and then proceeds to tell her she was an abomination, and that her "money is not equal."

Temmy-boy leaves that part out.

Sure, what website did you pull that from? Or are you lying through your teeth?

It's from the complaint made to the Bureau of Labor filed with the State.

Guess you don't really know much about the story, do you?

The owner doesn't deny he called them abominations.

You aren't providing any proof that he did. Links please. I asked you already, what website did you pull that from?

 

[TemplarKormac]

I would act? Explain. All I said was that they had the right to refuse service good for them I do not have to support them in their refusal do I? Can I not take my business elsewhere if I do not agree with their actions?

Of course I can. That is not bigotry intolerance or insensitivity.



Yes I have no tolerance for bigots who use religion especially a religion that states no one but god is supposed to judge people as an excuse for their bigotry.

As I said before simply baking a cake for someone in no way makes the baker liable for the sins of the customer.

The baker did not have to attend the wedding or the reception all he had to do was treat this couple like he would anyone else indeed as he himself would want to be treated. If he did that he would still be in business with happy customers referring new customers to him.

That is game set match.

Simple... how can you be intolerant of others intolerance? Does that not make you intolerant?

Maybe. but I would not refuse to serve someone in my business because I thoght they were intolerant. That is the very definition of tolerance now isn't it?

It is for fear of being judged that you reject any form of judgement. You are incapable of accepting any criticism, and therefore lash out at it.

I really don't care what people think about me personally. But I do care what the consequences my decisions reap may do to my business.

Perhaps if people had a conscience instead of an agenda, yes indeed, he would still be in business.

Conscience? Telling people you are unhappy with a business because they refused a simple request to serve someone has nothing to do with conscience.

It's a simple fact of business that if you piss someone off they'll tell a hundred people about it but if you treat them fantastically they might tell 5.

Which is why you do your best not to piss people off if you care about your business.

I equate this as to them refusing to serve Blacks or Jews even if it was a religious belief to turn away blacks or jews.

But that's just me. Being free of religious dogma allows me treat everyone equally.

BTW can you tell me how baking this cake would somehow make the baker liable for the gay sin?

Any man who would sacrifice his conscience for the wills and whims of other men is not much of a man.

By baking that cake for a gay couple you are expressing condonement for that type of behavior, thus making it sinful. Being free of "religious dogma" only allows you to treat others with impunity. This is what I mean by bigotry and intolerance. You folks are all the same, each and every time I encounter you, it's the same old line.

 

[RKMBrown]

It is for fear of being judged that you reject any form of judgement. You are incapable of accepting any criticism, and therefore lash out at it.

Irony.

 

[TemplarKormac]

And here is the coup de grace:

From the Washington Times:

A husband-and-wife bakery shop team in Oregon were forced to close their shop doors and move to cheaper digs — their home — after gay-rights activists hounded them and drove away contract business because they refused for Christian reasons to bake for a same-sex wedding.

Aaron and Melissa Klein own and operate Sweet Cakes by Melissa. In the past few months, they’ve faced heated scrutiny — some in the form of physical threats — from those in the gay-rights crowd who decried their May refusal to bake for a lesbian couple who wanted to marry.

The Kleins cited their Christian beliefs of traditional marriage when they turned down that business gig, The Blaze reported. But the lesbian couple filed a complaint with the state, accusing the shop owners of discrimination.

Since, they’ve been hounded by vicious telephone calls and emails.

Some of those threats were shocking. One emailer wished for the couple’s children to fall ill. Another expressed hope that Mr. Klein should be shot and even raped, The Blaze reported.

And yet another wrote: “Here’s hoping you go out of business, you bigot.”

The couple said on top of that, their vendors were “badgered and harassed” into stopping all associations with the bakery.

The Kleins say they’re now closing up their doors and moving their operations to their home. Their business, they say, has suffered a serious revenue hit from the unexpected activism and backlash.

Christian bakers who refused cake order for gay wedding forced to close shop - Washington Times

 

[TemplarKormac]

It is for fear of being judged that you reject any form of judgement. You are incapable of accepting any criticism, and therefore lash out at it.

Irony.

Yeah, just read the above post and see what real irony is.

 

[RKMBrown]

By baking that cake for a gay couple you are expressing condonement for that type of behavior, thus making it sinful.

Why? Does the act of baking a cake require the baker to have sex with customer? Does the baker have to make some public statement of support for the wedding party? Does the baker have to be gay to make a cake for gays? When you make a cake for gays is that cake now a gay cake and the baker a gay baker? Do gays have some sort of disease that if you touch them or get near them their gayness will rub off?

You said above that you have gay friends. Do you condone their behavior? Does them being your friends mean that you are a champion of the gay community? How can you be a christian and condone their behavior? How can they be your friends if you don't condone their behavior? Explain.