Christ was a Socialist

[ABikerSailor]

So........in the words of all you good Christians, if you don't have Yeshua, you don't get to Heaven.

I also see that most of you who profess a belief in Yeshua don't necessarily understand what He taught.

What about all the Buddhists, the Taoists, the Jews, and every other religion?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well, that would explain the "eye for an eye" thang!!!

Wasn't that the Old Testament? I notice right wing christians prefer that to the words of Jesus.

I notice that left-wing Christian haters prefer to misquote the Bible in order to try to teach others how to practice a religion they themselves don't profess. Not that you in any way deserve the instruction - that whole "pearls before swine" thing - but the actual quote is Matthew 5:38-39:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Interestingly, the Old Testament mention of reciprocity involves official punishment for crimes meted out by the community, not personal behavior. So the Bible shows us the GOVERNMENT being harsh, and PERSONAL behavior being benevolent. Hmmm.

A quick point about turning the other cheek............

When He was asked about that, He told them that if someone strikes you on one cheek and hits you as a slave with a backhand, to turn the other cheek so that they hit you with the palm of their hand, because after that, you are free to defend yourself.

It doesn't necessarily advocate pacifism like most believe.

 

[Big Fitz]

So........in the words of all you good Christians, if you don't have Yeshua, you don't get to Heaven.

I also see that most of you who profess a belief in Yeshua don't necessarily understand what He taught.

What about all the Buddhists, the Taoists, the Jews, and every other religion?

I don't make the rules. I only work here. As for other religions, God will deal with them in His own way. All I can do is be a witness for Him when I can, the rest is up to Him and the person listening.

If someone does not desire to follow Jesus, no one will (or should) force them. God only wants the willing.
In the parable of the great feast, when the king's invitees did not come, he sent his servants in to the street to find any who were willing to join him no matter who they were.

I find it ironic though, that you claim to be a Taoist, yet claim to understand scripture better than a Christian, and yet call Christ a socialist even though His teachings blatantly foil that theory. No offense, but I think you may need to reassess that belief. Now I know I know there are fallen away christians, and many who have followed blindly out there, and have left the Church because of that. This is true, but this is not a judgment on Him, only us. We can only do our best, and learn and grow in Him, if we are willing. But usually, I'd also take the word of a former Taoist who was potentially bitter towards the religion/philosophy on what the religion is about over someone who did believe and was faithful towards it.

 

[ABikerSailor]

So........in the words of all you good Christians, if you don't have Yeshua, you don't get to Heaven.

I also see that most of you who profess a belief in Yeshua don't necessarily understand what He taught.

What about all the Buddhists, the Taoists, the Jews, and every other religion?

I don't make the rules. I only work here. As for other religions, God will deal with them in His own way. All I can do is be a witness for Him when I can, the rest is up to Him and the person listening.

If someone does not desire to follow Jesus, no one will (or should) force them. God only wants the willing.
In the parable of the great feast, when the king's invitees did not come, he sent his servants in to the street to find any who were willing to join him no matter who they were.

I find it ironic though, that you claim to be a Taoist, yet claim to understand scripture better than a Christian, and yet call Christ a socialist even though His teachings blatantly foil that theory. No offense, but I think you may need to reassess that belief. Now I know I know there are fallen away christians, and many who have followed blindly out there, and have left the Church because of that. This is true, but this is not a judgment on Him, only us. We can only do our best, and learn and grow in Him, if we are willing. But usually, I'd also take the word of a former Taoist who was potentially bitter towards the religion/philosophy on what the religion is about over someone who did believe and was faithful towards it.

I am a Taoist, which isn't a religion as much as a philosophy. I also study Judaic theology, as there is a lot of Tao that is very similar to Judaic thought.

Christ was a good Jewish boy. He taught as a Jewish rabbi would teach, and He observed Jewish holy days, which is why He was in Jerusalem when He was crucified, He was there to observe Passover.

Incidentally, there is a place where Yeshua would have taught about charity, it's called the "omer" which is leaving a small piece of your field where poor people without money could come and harvest food.

Why do I say I understand scripture as well or better than most Christians? Simple, instead of trusting someone to interpret it in English for me, when it comes to the OT, I go to Jewish scholars for instruction. Why? The OT is their book, and it helps to have a person who speaks Hebrew to translate it directly to English and let you know all the nuances of it via the Hebrew language. Uri Harel does a program on GLC called Hidden in the Hebrew, and there is a really good resource on the 'net called Universal Torah Network with Sam Peak, rabbi Richman and rabbi Greenbaum.

Did you know that the commandment against killing isn't "thou shalt not kill" but rather "thou shalt not MURDER".

And, in Genesis 1:1, literal translation is "in A beginning" not "in THE beginning", which is something else interesting.

My problem with most Christians is that they are working from a HEAVILY EDITED AND TRANSLATED book, yet they don't bother to find out what the original writings were.

And, since the NT follows the OT, as well as builds on the OT, it helps to understand the first one so that you can understand the second.

On some of the History Channel's shows about the Bible, they state several times that the Niecine councils, as well as what the church has done over the years have edited the Bible, either because they didn't want the common people to know something, or they wanted to sell their own version of it.

A good place to look is at Easter services nowadays. The sunrise service, the eggs, and the rabbits and chicks are pagan symbols of fertility, which is why Easter is always around the Spring solstice.

Only trouble is, a couple years back, Passover came BEFORE Easter, which brings up the question of how can Yeshua be crucified before He arrived in Jerusalem for Passover?

Nope, sorry......you're working from a heavily edited book and trying to say that is the only right way.

 

[Oscar Wao]

So........in the words of all you good Christians, if you don't have Yeshua, you don't get to Heaven.

I also see that most of you who profess a belief in Yeshua don't necessarily understand what He taught.

What about all the Buddhists, the Taoists, the Jews, and every other religion?

They don't have it totally right. They may do tons of good works, hell, they could even find the cure for autism or breast cancer, but without Jesus, it doesn't matter in eternity.

 

[Big Fitz]

Did you know that the commandment against killing isn't "thou shalt not kill" but rather "thou shalt not MURDER"

Yep. Have a Strongs concordance and have used it to find actual meanings to the original Greek and Hebrew. It's one of my pet peeves, that particular 'mistranslation' of the commandments.

Incidentally, there is a place where Yeshua would have taught about charity, it's called the "omer" which is leaving a small piece of your field where poor people without money could come and harvest food.

I am familiar with the Omer as well. Leave the outer few rows for the poor and needy to harvest to help them in their points of need.

Why do I say I understand scripture as well or better than most Christians? Simple, instead of trusting someone to interpret it in English for me, when it comes to the OT, I go to Jewish scholars for instruction. Why? The OT is their book, and it helps to have a person who speaks Hebrew to translate it directly to English and let you know all the nuances of it via the Hebrew language.

That is true. I always found it fascinating, when the Dead Sea scrolls were found and compared to modern copies of the Pentatuch that they were exactly the same. That blew me away. Also, I do agree that the translations HAVE caused some odd understandings. That's why I am a firm believer in multiple translations to help illuminate what is being said. Of course, having a concordance is a nice tool as well.

As for how well most Christians understand scripture, yes that's another irksome point for me too. Many assume the act of going to church is the act required for salvation. Some churches actually go so far as to dissuade there parishioners of studying scripture themselves.

Nope, sorry......you're working from a heavily edited book and trying to say that is the only right way.

If God is who He says He is in the Bible, then why assume that He is either too weak or too neglectful as to not protect His word from anyone altering it from what He wants it to say? The Petatuch and the dead sea scrolls are exactly the same. There is much archeological evidence showing that the actual meanings of the Word, despite needing to be read in English (unless you have the ability to read the original language) is accurate thanks to multiple translations and concordances. It's all there for those who desire to dig and know God.

And yes, I'm familiar with the passages of all the councils et all and have to disagree with the assumption about the nature of scripture.

 

[Patriot214]

Looking at the scriptures it appears to me that Christ would be described as a socialist today and a flaming liberal. Look at Mathew 25:34:

"Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me."

It is hard to imagine that Christ would not be pleased with providing healthcare and jobs to million in need or laws that would punish the greedy.

Christians and Capitalist have always made rather strange bedfellows. How the GOP has managed to unite these two groups with such contradictory philosophies is beyond me.

This argument has been attempted by the left countless times. Using the scriptures to justify bigger government. Liberals want seperation of church and state more than anyone. Yet, they want to use the words of Christ to push a more socialist agenda. It is true, that the message found countless times throughout the Bible is that we should be charitable and giving. We should love and care for our neighbor. In Matthew 25:34, the scripture referenced in this post, Jesus refers to being clothed, fed, and cared for. Liberals will argue these words mean that our elected leaders should government this way. However, nowhere in the Bible does it say that those things should be the responsibility of a government. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that a governing body comprised of a few hundred men and women should have the power to take from hundreds of millions and redistribute it however they see fit. When it is done in this matter, it is not charity. It is force.

The citizens of this country are the most compassionate on the face of the earth. When others are in need, Americans do not hesitate to open their wallets or roll up their sleeves. Politicians pushing for a more socialist governmnet are not interested in providing assistance to everyone in this country. They are interested in using federal programs to create a class of people who are more and more dependant upon Government. why? Because the more people who are dependant upon you, the more powerful you are. Look at any socialist nation and what you see is leadership with great power over people who are weak. This is the exact opposite of how our Country was designed. In a republic, it is the people who have the power. Not the government

 

[ABikerSailor]

Did you know that the commandment against killing isn't "thou shalt not kill" but rather "thou shalt not MURDER"

Yep. Have a Strongs concordance and have used it to find actual meanings to the original Greek and Hebrew. It's one of my pet peeves, that particular 'mistranslation' of the commandments.

Incidentally, there is a place where Yeshua would have taught about charity, it's called the "omer" which is leaving a small piece of your field where poor people without money could come and harvest food.

I am familiar with the Omer as well. Leave the outer few rows for the poor and needy to harvest to help them in their points of need.

Why do I say I understand scripture as well or better than most Christians? Simple, instead of trusting someone to interpret it in English for me, when it comes to the OT, I go to Jewish scholars for instruction. Why? The OT is their book, and it helps to have a person who speaks Hebrew to translate it directly to English and let you know all the nuances of it via the Hebrew language.

That is true. I always found it fascinating, when the Dead Sea scrolls were found and compared to modern copies of the Pentatuch that they were exactly the same. That blew me away. Also, I do agree that the translations HAVE caused some odd understandings. That's why I am a firm believer in multiple translations to help illuminate what is being said. Of course, having a concordance is a nice tool as well.

As for how well most Christians understand scripture, yes that's another irksome point for me too. Many assume the act of going to church is the act required for salvation. Some churches actually go so far as to dissuade there parishioners of studying scripture themselves.

Nope, sorry......you're working from a heavily edited book and trying to say that is the only right way.

If God is who He says He is in the Bible, then why assume that He is either too weak or too neglectful as to not protect His word from anyone altering it from what He wants it to say? The Petatuch and the dead sea scrolls are exactly the same. There is much archeological evidence showing that the actual meanings of the Word, despite needing to be read in English (unless you have the ability to read the original language) is accurate thanks to multiple translations and concordances. It's all there for those who desire to dig and know God.

And yes, I'm familiar with the passages of all the councils et all and have to disagree with the assumption about the nature of scripture.

Which is the exact reason that I don't put my faith in just one theology. Christianity has been really screwed with over the years.

Kinda why I became a Taoist who studies Judaic theology. It's easier to separate the various lies of Christianity that way.

 

[Bern80]

Looking at the scriptures it appears to me that Christ would be described as a socialist today and a flaming liberal. Look at Mathew 25:34:

"Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me."

It is hard to imagine that Christ would not be pleased with providing healthcare and jobs to million in need or laws that would punish the greedy.

Christians and Capitalist have always made rather strange bedfellows. How the GOP has managed to unite these two groups with such contradictory philosophies is beyond me.

It seems to me you don't know the difference between socialism and charity. If you are trying to argue christ would be for all the the things the hollier than thou liberals are, your argument should be that you think christ believed in entitlements.

 

[Big Fitz]

It is hard to imagine that Christ would not be pleased with providing healthcare and jobs to million in need or laws that would punish the greedy.

Since Christ came and stated flatly that he did not come to do away or change the law, what happens to all the property rights ensconsed in the 10 commandments? Thou Shalt Not Steal seems pretty clear to me.

Secondly, are you greedy for wanting to be paid fairly for your labor? What if I told you, you did not deserve half of your pay because I felt it better for me to distribute the money to those I saw fit to have it instead of you?

Of course, I then go out and spend it on things
you find abhorrent, like:

the National Puppy Kicking Society...
the Pre-Sexualization of Little Children Coalition...
People for the Extention of Slavery to Anyone Without a Knighthood...
And the Free Bernie Maddoff Fund.

Do you feel it's right for me to be able to do that to you? Don't you deserve to keep your wages for your labor and not be forced into poverty? Yes God says it is up to us to take care of the poor and we have been told to Tithe our money to the church for such a set of actions. But what is NOT there is the force of law. If you do not Tithe, you are not damned. You are not thrown in jail. You are not robbed by collectors. It is your responsibility to do what you can for those who have less and you feel led by the Spirit to do something about.

Have you ever just taken a book in a public place, opened it up and put 40 bucks in-between random pages because you felt God led you to? I have on occasion. I have to give up to faith that God will put that money in the hands HE desires. Regardless, it's an act of obedience that is done willfully, not because I will be punished. That is the essence and heart of charity. Doing the right thing because it is good and right, not because you fear punishment.

The act of charity is also not to be a burden on those who obey it. That is why it's a Tithe... only a tenth of what you have accrued through your hard work and labor. How would Christ feel about forcing only select citizens to spend up to 80% of their wealth to provide for people who may or may not need what is being bought for them by this money taken by force of law? Yes render unto Caesar, what is Caesars... but still, 7 times the amount for the poor than God asks, and to do it by force? And then... the bottom 50% of all citizens not only pay NO taxes, they get back money they never earned, taken from those who had. Where is the compassion for that?

You have mistaken the fact that God has never punished honest labor, and if you don't think the rich do honest labor, you need your blinders of jealousy removed. I'm not saying that there are those who don't cheat and steal, for there are even at the lowest levels of employment, but to automatically equate success with theft and evil is dishonest on it's face. Thou shalt not bear false witness I believe the phrase goes, and to state that all the rich have sinned, lied, cheated and stolen as a matter of course, is doing so out of either ignorance or malice.

Now here's an ironic little twist. I haven't looked yet at this but heard it on Glenn Beck.

God-o-nomics

It'll be interesting to see what this pastor makes of God's view of our current economic situation.

And lastly... Healh Care is NOT a right. It is a trade.

You do not have the right to the labor of another, nor their skill, time or money. If you wish these things, you must trade something of value from them in return. Your need does not supersede the needs and freedom of another. The only way health care is 'free' or a 'right' is in so far as you can heal yourself, unsupplied, and untrained. Then you have the right to use all your abilities and resources to save your life or repair your body. The instant you cannot do it alone, it becomes an act of trade and all trade has an intrinsic value. This is remedial economics, not even 101 level.

You have no right to food and water unless you work for it. You have no right to shelter or clothing, unless you build it or trade to have it built. These are fundamental needs, and you still have no right to them. No one is obligated to provide you with them except yourself and that's only to stave off death and disease and create a better life for yourself. Your needs do not supersede the rights and freedoms everyone else has. To demand otherwise makes you a deadbeat and a thief, regardless of whether or not it is legal. Since ethics has been divorced from the law in this nation, legal and right often are at cross purposes making you a legal deadbeat while those who oppose it are suddenly good/ethical criminals.

<sarcasm>Yeah, I'm sure Jesus would be happy with all this.</sarcasm>

 

[Big Fitz]

Did you know that the commandment against killing isn't "thou shalt not kill" but rather "thou shalt not MURDER"

Yep. Have a Strongs concordance and have used it to find actual meanings to the original Greek and Hebrew. It's one of my pet peeves, that particular 'mistranslation' of the commandments.



I am familiar with the Omer as well. Leave the outer few rows for the poor and needy to harvest to help them in their points of need.



That is true. I always found it fascinating, when the Dead Sea scrolls were found and compared to modern copies of the Pentatuch that they were exactly the same. That blew me away. Also, I do agree that the translations HAVE caused some odd understandings. That's why I am a firm believer in multiple translations to help illuminate what is being said. Of course, having a concordance is a nice tool as well.

As for how well most Christians understand scripture, yes that's another irksome point for me too. Many assume the act of going to church is the act required for salvation. Some churches actually go so far as to dissuade there parishioners of studying scripture themselves.

Nope, sorry......you're working from a heavily edited book and trying to say that is the only right way.

If God is who He says He is in the Bible, then why assume that He is either too weak or too neglectful as to not protect His word from anyone altering it from what He wants it to say? The Petatuch and the dead sea scrolls are exactly the same. There is much archeological evidence showing that the actual meanings of the Word, despite needing to be read in English (unless you have the ability to read the original language) is accurate thanks to multiple translations and concordances. It's all there for those who desire to dig and know God.

And yes, I'm familiar with the passages of all the councils et all and have to disagree with the assumption about the nature of scripture.

Which is the exact reason that I don't put my faith in just one theology. Christianity has been really screwed with over the years.

Kinda why I became a Taoist who studies Judaic theology. It's easier to separate the various lies of Christianity that way.

A man cannot have two masters for he will love the one and hate the other.

You did prove that point though. Good luck in your walk though.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Hey Fitz, if you look for the similarities rather than the differences you get a lot farther.

Incidentally, did you know that Yeshua traveled to India after He left Israel?

Over there, they called Him "Issa". Check out the documentary "Jesus in India" sometime.

No, I think that all the religions that have room for comparing beliefs are compatible. Why? They all point to the same God.

In Judaic theology, it is said that HaShem has many names, Adonai, Elokim, etc. Why is it that He cannot be known as Tao as well as God also? All of them kinda fit together.

At least, as long as you don't have blinders on.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

These threads are retarded. Just like the "Hitler was a Liberal/Conservative" threads.

 

[Harry Dresden]

if Jesus was truly who he says he was,and the Kingdom he talks about were HE is King....none of the problems you see here today would exist....you dont need healthcare if you are going to live forever....who is going to be sick?.....there would be no murder,no stealing,no lying,no adultry,no religious strife....right?....

Sigh, and that misses the entire point of Christ's purpose. He was not here for the flesh but for your soul. This world is finite and sin damaged and given over to Satan for a time if you believe scripture. God's purpose for us here is deeper than to make sure everyone has a comfy life.

his basic message was the promise of ETERNAL LIFE.....and obviously you did not grasp what i was talking about.....if his Kindom comes to pass,and those in it are going to live forever.....who is going to need a health care system?.....the 10 Commandments are obviously going to be the law of the Kingdom.....so what problems are an elevated human going to have?.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

It would be great if there was enough charity to feed the poor and care for sick but the fact is there just isn't enough and there never will be.

Social problems such poverty, poor education, and lack of healthcare are the most difficult problems to solve. Apparently the Republicans decided long ago, that these problems were not worth addressing. Cut taxes because tax payers vote. Cut social programs because poor people don't vote. And of course reduce the size of government because we know that government is evil.

the Govt. can be as evil as those big corporations.....so yea,keep Govt as small as possible.....the post itself sounds like something Rdean would post....

 

[ABikerSailor]

It would be great if there was enough charity to feed the poor and care for sick but the fact is there just isn't enough and there never will be.

Social problems such poverty, poor education, and lack of healthcare are the most difficult problems to solve. Apparently the Republicans decided long ago, that these problems were not worth addressing. Cut taxes because tax payers vote. Cut social programs because poor people don't vote. And of course reduce the size of government because we know that government is evil.

the Govt. can be as evil as those big corporations.....so yea,keep Govt as small as possible.....the post itself sounds like something Rdean would post....

If the government is small, it is easier for corporations to influence it and doesn't cost them as much money.

If you're gonna shrink government like that, then you should get rid of the corporate lobbyists as well.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Healthcare maybe a give away program but in the end we all benefit.

how?.....if people who HAVE Ins. now,dont take care of themselves,go for the check-ups they are supposed to have....how in the hell is this bill going to be any different?....is everyone now going to start taking care of themselves and get their periodic check-ups?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Nope, sorry......you're working from a heavily edited book and trying to say that is the only right way.

this....is very true.....some of the differences in the various "Bibles" is quite interesting....

 

[ABikerSailor]

Nope, sorry......you're working from a heavily edited book and trying to say that is the only right way.

this....is very true.....some of the differences in the various "Bibles" is quite interesting....

Yep. And, because a lot of the books in the modern Bible have so much missing out of them, that is why there are so many different varieties of Christianity. That is where the various religions plug in their own brand of spirituality, as well as why there is such a rift between various religions THAT USE THE SAME FREAKING BOOK!!!!!!!

And............if you put the wrong stuff in the wrong place, it may give you back the wrong information, which will result in a wrong assessment and teaching.

I'll even give you an example. The Rapture. In Judaic theology, it talks about a time when evil will no longer be required for the world, and it will be winked out of existence.

Matter of fact, if you have some of the FULL books of the OT, you will understand Revelation a lot better, because there are some 613 references to things in the OT that have been edited out of current Bibles.

The History Channel showed how the current Bible has been modified over the years to have the OT modified to focus the story on Yesha and the NT, which then points towards Revelation, which points back to the OT, but the references that used to be there are gone.

Most of that was done by the Catholics when they mixed in pagan rituals with Christianity.

Also may be why Martin Luther rebelled against the Catholics as well, he figured out the paganism in Catholicism.

 

[Harry Dresden]

If the government is small, it is easier for corporations to influence it and doesn't cost them as much money.

If you're gonna shrink government like that, then you should get rid of the corporate lobbyists as well.

ABS....i am for getting rid of EVERY Lobbyist there is.....the ONLY lobbyist allowed in DC should be your State Reps.....