Chris Kyle: American Liar

[Synthaholic]

Now, it was kind of a dick move to sue a dead man's wife

He sued the estate.

I swear, none of you actually read the story.

The lawsuit was filed when Kyle was still alive.

I read the book when it first came out and those stories he told (Katrina/car jacking) had me saying "yeah right". Whatever his motives for lying are/were I don't know. Doesn't take away from what an outstanding operator he was.

He's still, in my opinion, a man who did his job extremely well and I will always hold him in high regards despite the tales/lies he wrote in that book.

Thank you for the correction.

No doubt that he was an outstanding marksman. I don't think that's ever been questioned.

There is very much doubt as to whether he was a good soldier, or a good person.

I don't think you will find a single person that would say he was a lousy, or mediocre, operator. As far as if he was "a good person", there hasn't been anything written or otherwise to say that he wasn't. Quite the opposite actually.

Good soldiers don't violate the Geneva Convention by looting - which he documented in his book.

Good people don't say how much they enjoyed killing other humans - again, in his book.

100% of the proceeds from the book went to two of the SEAL families who had lost their sons in Iraq. He formed a company in Dallas to train military, police and I think firemen as far as protecting themselves in difficult situations. He also formed a foundation to work with military people suffering from PTSD. Looks to me that Chris was a giver not a taker.

Turns out that was a lie, also. Sorry. Read the article linked to in the OP.

 

[Synthaholic]

Kyle’s ghostwriters spoke with only one person who claimed to have witnessed the fight, a friend of Kyle’s who told a different version of the story that lacked Ventura’s offensive remarks. No one from HarperCollins contacted Ventura or his representatives to verify the story. And though Kyle claimed Ventura appeared at a SEAL graduation afterward with a black eye—where “everybody was laughing” and asking “Who beat the shit out of him?”—HarperCollins never asked a member of the graduating class whether they saw Ventura’s injury. (A photograph from the event shows a clear image of Ventura—with no black eye.)​

From the OP:

have no way of knowing for sure, but rumor has it he showed up at the BUD/S graduation with a black eye.

LOL, how is that defamation? And he never named Jesse Ventura in the book. I think its obvious he embellished his story, but that is not defamation. Freedom of speech also includes lying and making shit up, otherwise every progressive hack would be in jail.

Like I said, you are free to continue to be a moron spouting bullshit, or you could actually read the article linked to in the OP, and the article inked to in post #81.

He did name Ventura, twice on Opie & Anthony, and also on The O"Reilly Factor - like it says in the article, and why Ventura sued him. How fucking dumb are you, anyway?

It's not about freedom of speech - there is no 1st amendment protection against slander.

 

[Synthaholic]

I don't want anyone hurting themselves trying to find info, so here - from the OP:

One final lie that has been told ad nauseam, is that Chris Kyle and his family donated all the proceeds from the sale of the book American Sniper to families of vets. The Kyle's say that 100% has gone to charities that support other vet families. This is an out and out lie, and a really despicable one that is repeated constantly by the corporate media. The truth is…the family has only given 2% of the profits to charity. The profits from the book belong to the Kyle family, and they should do with them what they please, but what they shouldn't do is tell people they are giving the money away in order to look good, while they in fact keep the money. The Kyle family has made over $6 million from the book, and that number will increase with further book sales and from an upcoming movie starring Bradley Cooper and directed by Clint Eastwood. So why isn't the corporate media up in arms over Chris Kyle and his wife lying repeatedly about the profits and proceeds from the book? Instead of asking Jesse Ventura why he doesn't give the money he is owed back to the Kyle family, why not ask the Kyle family why they keep lying about giving money to vets when they don't?

To further inform yourself, please read this really thoughtful and smart article over at The New Republic that give the facts of the case and dispel the myths that the media is selling. LINK​

 

[Hossfly]

I don't want anyone hurting themselves trying to find info, so here - from the OP:

One final lie that has been told ad nauseam, is that Chris Kyle and his family donated all the proceeds from the sale of the book American Sniper to families of vets. The Kyle's say that 100% has gone to charities that support other vet families. This is an out and out lie, and a really despicable one that is repeated constantly by the corporate media. The truth is…the family has only given 2% of the profits to charity. The profits from the book belong to the Kyle family, and they should do with them what they please, but what they shouldn't do is tell people they are giving the money away in order to look good, while they in fact keep the money. The Kyle family has made over $6 million from the book, and that number will increase with further book sales and from an upcoming movie starring Bradley Cooper and directed by Clint Eastwood. So why isn't the corporate media up in arms over Chris Kyle and his wife lying repeatedly about the profits and proceeds from the book? Instead of asking Jesse Ventura why he doesn't give the money he is owed back to the Kyle family, why not ask the Kyle family why they keep lying about giving money to vets when they don't?

To further inform yourself, please read this really thoughtful and smart article over at The New Republic that give the facts of the case and dispel the myths that the media is selling. LINK​

"I lie awake night after night worrying about this petty horseshit."
~~Mark Twain

 

[cereal_killer]

Now, it was kind of a dick move to sue a dead man's wife

He sued the estate.

I swear, none of you actually read the story.

The lawsuit was filed when Kyle was still alive.

I read the book when it first came out and those stories he told (Katrina/car jacking) had me saying "yeah right". Whatever his motives for lying are/were I don't know. Doesn't take away from what an outstanding operator he was.

He's still, in my opinion, a man who did his job extremely well and I will always hold him in high regards despite the tales/lies he wrote in that book.

Thank you for the correction.

No doubt that he was an outstanding marksman. I don't think that's ever been questioned.

There is very much doubt as to whether he was a good soldier, or a good person.

I don't think you will find a single person that would say he was a lousy, or mediocre, operator. As far as if he was "a good person", there hasn't been anything written or otherwise to say that he wasn't. Quite the opposite actually.

Good soldiers don't violate the Geneva Convention by looting - which he documented in his book.

Good people don't say how much they enjoyed killing other humans - again, in his book.

100% of the proceeds from the book went to two of the SEAL families who had lost their sons in Iraq. He formed a company in Dallas to train military, police and I think firemen as far as protecting themselves in difficult situations. He also formed a foundation to work with military people suffering from PTSD. Looks to me that Chris was a giver not a taker.

Turns out that was a lie, also. Sorry. Read the article linked to in the OP.

I stand corrected on the 100% proceeds.

I don't remember anything about him looting in the book. Not saying he didn't write it but perhaps you can refresh my memory?

In regards to enjoying killing other humans. I think when put into context most people in his position would say the same. Killing the enemy while saving American lives felt "good" He didn't hide from that and said it in his interviews. Does it make him a bad person? I personally don't think so. The man did his job. It's an ugly job, a brutal job. War is ugly. This is why politicians need not be so quick to go to war..

All I know is that if it was me going out on those patrols I'd love knowing the legend was on the lens and watching our back. I'm sure you'd agree.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

If Kyle was a traitor , gave assisstance to the enemy, disclosed classified documents, abandoned his post or disgraced the uniform upon his return by denigrating his country.... Then he'd be a progressive Hero...

 

[Synthaholic]

He sued the estate.

I swear, none of you actually read the story.

The lawsuit was filed when Kyle was still alive.

I read the book when it first came out and those stories he told (Katrina/car jacking) had me saying "yeah right". Whatever his motives for lying are/were I don't know. Doesn't take away from what an outstanding operator he was.

He's still, in my opinion, a man who did his job extremely well and I will always hold him in high regards despite the tales/lies he wrote in that book.

Thank you for the correction.

No doubt that he was an outstanding marksman. I don't think that's ever been questioned.

There is very much doubt as to whether he was a good soldier, or a good person.

I don't think you will find a single person that would say he was a lousy, or mediocre, operator. As far as if he was "a good person", there hasn't been anything written or otherwise to say that he wasn't. Quite the opposite actually.

Good soldiers don't violate the Geneva Convention by looting - which he documented in his book.

Good people don't say how much they enjoyed killing other humans - again, in his book.

100% of the proceeds from the book went to two of the SEAL families who had lost their sons in Iraq. He formed a company in Dallas to train military, police and I think firemen as far as protecting themselves in difficult situations. He also formed a foundation to work with military people suffering from PTSD. Looks to me that Chris was a giver not a taker.

Turns out that was a lie, also. Sorry. Read the article linked to in the OP.

I stand corrected on the 100% proceeds.

I don't remember anything about him looting in the book. Not saying he didn't write it but perhaps you can refresh my memory?

In regards to enjoying killing other humans. I think when put into context most people in his position would say the same. Killing the enemy while saving American lives felt "good" He didn't hide from that and said it in his interviews. Does it make him a bad person? I personally don't think so. The man did his job. It's an ugly job, a brutal job. War is ugly. This is why politicians need not be so quick to go to war..

All I know is that if it was me going out on those patrols I'd love knowing the legend was on the lens and watching our back. I'm sure you'd agree.

Max Blumenthal on Twitter AmericanPsycho Chris Kyle boasted of looting the apartments of Iraqi families in Fallujah http t.co E2FV6drcPt http t.co oMiryEsoR4

Book review, before he was killed:
mordant combat - bookforum.com current issue

The real American Sniper was a hate-filled killer. Why are simplistic patriots treating him as a hero Lindy West Comment is free The Guardian

An aside: For those who don't know, Clint Eastwood is very anti-war and deliberately did not want this to be a war movie, just a profile of Kyle.

 

[Synthaholic]

I am not pro- or anti-Chris Kyle. I just object to portraying him only as a pure and good hero when the evidence screams otherwise.

 

[cereal_killer]

The lawsuit was filed when Kyle was still alive.

I read the book when it first came out and those stories he told (Katrina/car jacking) had me saying "yeah right". Whatever his motives for lying are/were I don't know. Doesn't take away from what an outstanding operator he was.

He's still, in my opinion, a man who did his job extremely well and I will always hold him in high regards despite the tales/lies he wrote in that book.

Thank you for the correction.

No doubt that he was an outstanding marksman. I don't think that's ever been questioned.

There is very much doubt as to whether he was a good soldier, or a good person.

I don't think you will find a single person that would say he was a lousy, or mediocre, operator. As far as if he was "a good person", there hasn't been anything written or otherwise to say that he wasn't. Quite the opposite actually.

Good soldiers don't violate the Geneva Convention by looting - which he documented in his book.

Good people don't say how much they enjoyed killing other humans - again, in his book.

100% of the proceeds from the book went to two of the SEAL families who had lost their sons in Iraq. He formed a company in Dallas to train military, police and I think firemen as far as protecting themselves in difficult situations. He also formed a foundation to work with military people suffering from PTSD. Looks to me that Chris was a giver not a taker.

Turns out that was a lie, also. Sorry. Read the article linked to in the OP.

I stand corrected on the 100% proceeds.

I don't remember anything about him looting in the book. Not saying he didn't write it but perhaps you can refresh my memory?

In regards to enjoying killing other humans. I think when put into context most people in his position would say the same. Killing the enemy while saving American lives felt "good" He didn't hide from that and said it in his interviews. Does it make him a bad person? I personally don't think so. The man did his job. It's an ugly job, a brutal job. War is ugly. This is why politicians need not be so quick to go to war..

All I know is that if it was me going out on those patrols I'd love knowing the legend was on the lens and watching our back. I'm sure you'd agree.

Max Blumenthal on Twitter AmericanPsycho Chris Kyle boasted of looting the apartments of Iraqi families in Fallujah http t.co E2FV6drcPt http t.co oMiryEsoR4

Book review, before he was killed:
mordant combat - bookforum.com current issue

The real American Sniper was a hate-filled killer. Why are simplistic patriots treating him as a hero Lindy West Comment is free The Guardian

An aside: For those who don't know, Clint Eastwood is very anti-war and deliberately did not want this to be a war movie, just a profile of Kyle.

Thanks for sharing those links. I read them all. I'm still not sure where this leaves us though. Despite what he did over there I just don't think it qualifies him as a bad guy. Looting a home of a handheld game in a combat zone and looking for other stuff doesn't strike me as that bad. If I was there and saw something I liked would I take it? I really don't know to be honest. I don't think I would but then again being in a stressed enviroment can make you do things you normally wouldn't do. Its easy to judge from the sidelines. Was it wrong? Yes. Was it a horrendous crime? Not at all. If taking a few things in a war zone is the worse thing one does on a deployment, well hey I'd take that any day.

We've all done messed up things in our lifetimes and it doesn't make us bad people. We're human. Chris Kyle in my opinion was a good man.

Just my thoughts

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Now, it was kind of a dick move to sue a dead man's wife

He sued the estate.

I swear, none of you actually read the story.

The lawsuit was filed when Kyle was still alive.

I read the book when it first came out and those stories he told (Katrina/car jacking) had me saying "yeah right". Whatever his motives for lying are/were I don't know. Doesn't take away from what an outstanding operator he was.

He's still, in my opinion, a man who did his job extremely well and I will always hold him in high regards despite the tales/lies he wrote in that book.

Thank you for the correction.

No doubt that he was an outstanding marksman. I don't think that's ever been questioned.

There is very much doubt as to whether he was a good soldier, or a good person.

I don't think you will find a single person that would say he was a lousy, or mediocre, operator. As far as if he was "a good person", there hasn't been anything written or otherwise to say that he wasn't. Quite the opposite actually.

Good soldiers don't violate the Geneva Convention by looting - which he documented in his book.

Good people don't say how much they enjoyed killing other humans - again, in his book.

100% of the proceeds from the book went to two of the SEAL families who had lost their sons in Iraq. He formed a company in Dallas to train military, police and I think firemen as far as protecting themselves in difficult situations. He also formed a foundation to work with military people suffering from PTSD. Looks to me that Chris was a giver not a taker.

Turns out that was a lie, also. Sorry. Read the article linked to in the OP.

 

[Dot Com]

Now, it was kind of a dick move to sue a dead man's wife

He sued the estate.

I swear, none of you actually read the story.

The lawsuit was filed when Kyle was still alive.

I read the book when it first came out and those stories he told (Katrina/car jacking) had me saying "yeah right". Whatever his motives for lying are/were I don't know. Doesn't take away from what an outstanding operator he was.

He's still, in my opinion, a man who did his job extremely well and I will always hold him in high regards despite the tales/lies he wrote in that book.

Thank you for the correction.

No doubt that he was an outstanding marksman. I don't think that's ever been questioned.

There is very much doubt as to whether he was a good soldier, or a good person.

I knew > a couple guys in the military who were good at their MOS but were also selfish pompous asses in civvies.

 

[jwksnipe]

Kyle is not what he is cracked up to be.

More lies at the link.

Obviously you have never taken fire, much less served 4 tours. I am tired of hearing from cowards who lend their expert opinions .on things they no nothing about. If this hero is not all he is cracked up to be what does that make you. I have seen war, I have seen things that would give you nightmares. Heads on sticks, limbs ripped off, stabbings, then I went to war. So before you pass your expert opinion grow some balls, grab a weapon then and defend yourself.

 

[Dot Com]

Kyle is not what he is cracked up to be.

Obviously you have never taken fire, much less served 4 tours. I am tired of hearing from cowards who lend their expert opinions .on things they no nothing about. If this hero is not all he is cracked up to be what does that make you. I have seen war, I have seen things that would give you nightmares. Heads on sticks, limbs ripped off, stabbings, then I went to war. So before you pass your expert opinion grow some balls, grab a weapon then and defend yourself.

lying and looting are STILL not honorable

 

[JakeStarkey]

Kyle is not what he is cracked up to be.

Obviously you have never taken fire, much less served 4 tours. I am tired of hearing from cowards who lend their expert opinions .on things they no nothing about. If this hero is not all he is cracked up to be what does that make you. I have seen war, I have seen things that would give you nightmares. Heads on sticks, limbs ripped off, stabbings, then I went to war. So before you pass your expert opinion grow some balls, grab a weapon then and defend yourself.

Obviously you nothing about me, little snipe. You know nothing about Kyle; he is not everything he is made up to be. My expert opinion is every bit as good as yours, young'n. Move out, trainee.

 

[TooTall]

I hate people who cash-in on government service ESPECIALLY when they embellish it.

The biggest two people on the planet to cash in on government service are Bill and Hillary Clinton. I am not into hate, but I do hold them in contempt. How about you?

 

[Synthaholic]

The biggest two people on the planet to cash in on government service are Bill and Hillary Clinton.

Total conjecture. There are plenty who have gotten filthy rich from their government service, including Newt, Phil Gramm, Sarah Palin, Dick Cheney, Hank Paulson, Robert Rubin, etc.

 

[Hossfly]

The biggest two people on the planet to cash in on government service are Bill and Hillary Clinton.

Total conjecture. There are plenty who have gotten filthy rich from their government service, including Newt, Phil Gramm, Sarah Palin, Dick Cheney, Hank Paulson, Robert Rubin, etc.

....the Clintons are on welfare, the Messiah will have to sign up for unemployment and every Republican is wallowing in money.

 

[Liminal]

Pretty good read:

Truth, Justice and the Curious Case of Chris Kyle

Despite the very high burden of proof, on July 19, 2014, Jesse Ventura, former Governor of Minnesota, WWF wrestler, TV show host and Former Navy SEAL (technically he was in the pre-cursor to SEALs, the UDT) won a defamation lawsuit against deceased former Navy SEAL Chris Kyle, author of American Sniper to the tune of $1.8 million. In the book, Chris Kyle, claimed to have punched 'Scruff-face', later identified by Kyle as Jesse Ventura, in a SEAL bar in California after Ventura said some nasty things. Here is the passage in question from the book:

After the funeral, we went to a local bar for the wake proper. (for Navy SEAL and Medal of Honor winner Mike Monsoor who was killed in action in Iraq)

As always, there were a bunch of different things going on at our favorite nightspot, including a small party for some older SEALs and UDT members who were celebrating the anniversary of their graduation. Among them was a celebrity I'll call Scruff Face.

Scruff served in the military; most people seem to believe he was a SEAL. As far as I know, he was in service during the Vietnam conflict but not the actual war.

I was sitting with Ryan (a SEAL who was wounded and blinded in the Iraq war) and told him that Scruff was holding court with some of his buddies.

"I'd really like to meet him, " Ryan said.

"Sure". I got up and went over to Scruff and introduced myself. "Mr. Scruff Face, I have a young SEAL over here who's just come back from Iraq. He's been injured but he'd really like to meet you."

Well, Scruff kind of blew us off. Still, Ryan really wanted to meet him, so I brought him over. Scruff acted like he couldn't be bothered.

All right.

We went back over to our side of the bar and had a few more drinks. In the meantime, Scruff started running his mouth about the war and everything and anything he could connect to it. President Bush was an asshole. We were only over there because Bush wanted to show up his father. We were doing the wrong thing, killing men, woman and children and murdering.

And on and on. Scruff said he hates America and that's why he moved to Baja California. 9/11 was a conspiracy.

And on some more.

The guys were getting upset. Finally, I went over and tried to get him to cool it.

"We're all here in mourning." I told him. "Can you just cool it? Keep it down."

"You deserve to lose a few," he told me.

I was uncharacteristically level-headed at that moment.

"Look," I told him, "why don't we just step away from each other and go on our way?"

Scruff bowed up again. This time he swung.

Being level-headed and calm can last only so long. I laid him out.

Tables flew. Stuff happened. Scruff face ended up on the floor.

I left.

Quickly.

I have no way of knowing for sure, but rumor has it he showed up at the BUD/S graduation with a black eye.

That is the story that was proven to be untrue in the court proceedings. Jesse Ventura didn't say those things to Chris Kyle or any other SEAL. Chris Kyle did not hit Jesse Ventura. The entire episode never occurred. Or to put it another way, Chris Kyle lied. To put an even finer point on it, Chris Kyle lied to make himself look good.

Because Jesse Ventura is such a reliable source for the truth.

 

[Liminal]

Having read the book, I went and did some more research of Chris Kyle and his life. The things I found were pretty astounding. If you thought the Jesse Ventura fight was a hell of a yarn, wait until you get a load of some of the other stories Chris Kyle told about himself but left out of his book.

Chris told many people, and some reporters, that just after his return from Iraq in 2009, he was carjacked by two men at a gas station on a remote Texas highway. Chris asked the men if he could reach into his truck to get his keys, and as he did he pulled a pistol from his waistband and shot both men in the chest from under his armpit. The two men were killed instantly. Chris called the police and waited for them while leaning against his truck. The police came, Chris handed them a phone number to call at the Pentagon. The cops called the number, and the people at the Pentagon told the cops that Chris Kyle was a war hero and a Navy SEAL. The police also went inside and watched the gas station surveillance video of the incident. The cops then let Chris go on his way. Chris claimed he got emails from cops all across the country after the incident thanking him for "keeping the streets clean". Great story. Except none of it is true. Not a word. There were no carjackers, no dead bodies, no cops, none of it. He made the whole thing up. His big mistake was then telling the story to his SEAL friend, Marcus Lutrell, author of Lone Survivor, and Marcus put the story in his second book, Service: A Navy SEAL at Work. Now it wasn't just a tall-tale, it was in the public record, and it is demonstrably a lie. The New Yorker magazine and other journalists have investigated the story. They all come to the same conclusion. There were no carjackers. There were no dead bodies. There were no cops. None of it happened. No police departments know anything about it, no coroner ever saw the bodies, no gas station had any surveillance video or ever heard of such a thing and no cops ever responded to the scene and called the Pentagon.

Good thing Jesse Ventura never tells stories.

 

[Liminal]

The biggest two people on the planet to cash in on government service are Bill and Hillary Clinton.

Total conjecture. There are plenty who have gotten filthy rich from their government service, including Newt, Phil Gramm, Sarah Palin, Dick Cheney, Hank Paulson, Robert Rubin, etc.

Conjecture in what alternate reality? The Clinton Foundation is a cash cow disguised as a philanthropic organization.