China 'Worrisome Escalation' - Because They CAN, No Fear of Consequences, Filling The Void Left By US Absence

[Tom Paine 1949]

We won't be sending soldiers to fight against China. That would be suicide. You're an idiot.

In the case of a Chinese-imposed soft quarantine or blockade of Taiwan shipping and aviation, the U.S. and Western response is hardly clear, and a kinetic confrontation could easily widen into war. Even now, minor “accidental” conflict near Taiwan or in the South China Sea may lead to escalation.

Not sure why you are reacting by calling me an idiot. I do not advocate sending “U.S. soldiers” to fight and die for Taiwan independence.

But ex-CIA leader & Trump State Department director Mike Pompeo has already stated we should — and proposals are already being bandied about in Congress to — reject openly the “One China” agreements that allowed Taiwan to develop successfully over the last 40 years. Quite a few U.S. politicians are toying with this idea that the U.S. formally and unilaterally recognize Taiwan’s “sovereign independence.”

More to the point, there are powerful forces proposing the U.S. abandon its “strategic ambiguity” about defending Taiwan. Already over 200 U.S. soldiers are based in Taiwan “training” its soldiers.

These are all extremely provocative moves to the nationalist CCP leadership, which remembers well when as many as 19,000 U.S. army and air force personnel were based in Taiwan, back before agreement on “One China” and related memoranda of agreement limiting U.S. military presence and aid to Taiwan were signed in the 1970s.

I certainly do hope — and expect — that at least during the present Biden Administration we will not see too much further movement in this direction, though of course there are increasing economic and technological sanctions being aimed at the Mainland, as well as more military equipment being sold to Taiwan.

200 US military trainers now in Taiwan | Taiwan News | 2023-04-17 15:42:00

Taiwan preserves legacy of US Air Force operations on the island

This sprawling military installation in central Taiwan is likely the biggest reminder of an era when thousands of U.S. troops were deployed to the island.

www.stripes.com

It should go without saying that I do not support the dictatorship of the CCP on the Mainland, or want to see the democratic system existing in Taiwan snuffed out by XiJinping and his cronies.

 

[beagle9]

You summed up many of the potential problems nicely. How do you suggest we handle it?

I don't know, maybe seed Putin some of the territory he has won, otherwise in order to somehow gain peace in Ukraine ? Would this be better in order to stop Putin instead of trying to defeat him ?...

This could be done by getting Zelensky (with our NATO weaponry backing him), to draw a line in the sand sort of like the DMZ area that separates the two Korea's, then everyone involved can meet to negotiate at the peace talks.... It would tell Putin that he shouldn't cross that line any farther in Ukraine, and hopefully Putin will agree seeing that he is the aggressor that is Hell bent on destroying Ukraine by any means necessary if he has too, otherwise if some kind of constructive negotiations don't somehow get going soon.. I know, I know, but Ukraine is winning right, and they are going to defeat Russia eventually right ? What exactly does that mean when it comes to Russia holding it's nuke card ???

Maybe we should strongly convince or tell Zelensky that he must respect the territory already lost to Russia ("unfortunately"), that will now be behind that line in which is to be set......

This would be to then accommodate the Russian speaking ethnic people living in those won territories or regions that Zelensky has since lost to Russia in the hard fought battle's between them all.

The alternative to this is not good, as it draws us closer and closer to a nuclear event taking place whether in Ukraine or if the war was to spill over that border in the wrong direction outside of Ukraine.

I know it sounds crazy, but think about the status quoe, otherwise if allowed to continue on like a locative out of control. Where does it end ? It won't. It only gets worse.

Zelensky has got to give or there might be a possibility that he will be eliminated by a tactical nuke. Not good, as if it ain't bad enough already.

Settling Putin down, and somehow gaining back some diplomacy in the region with both warring parties is the best solution I think... Hopefully that will stop the war before something real bad happens, especially before China and Putin Allie's themselves together in some sort of pact against the west in order to go forth in the world with a communist banner cemented between the two of them, along with any other allies they might bring together under their communist banner.

Zelensky can't be the one to force world war three on us all, otherwise by not giving an inch in the diplomacy department that is involved in things like this. He must listen to level reasoning I'm thinking.

Let's say that Zelensky and his crew might have done some thing's back in 2014 maybe, otherwise that may have led to bad relations with it's Russian neighbor's, so it is that they aren't perfect or completely innocent if they did so in this entire thing either right, so him excepting that fact should lead him to the negotiating table in a bid to stop this thing, and at least hold on to what Ukraine has left as an independent Nation. Continuing the war is a dangerous thing, because Ukraine probably has yet to truly experience the wrath of Putin's total war machine, otherwise if (tactical nukes), were to be unleashed in that theater. Worse yet is Russia's control of the nuclear station that it currently holds also. So much bad is being held in the card's that are unknown it seems. So is Russia bluffing or not when it comes to it's end game ?

An assessment of the poker cards being held by either nation must be analyzed correctly. No room for error.

 

[ESay]

I know it sounds crazy, but think about the status quoe, otherwise if allowed to continue on like a locative out of control. Where does it end ? It won't. It only gets worse

It doesn't sound crazy. It is the most reasonable thing to do.

 

[Father O'Blivion]

I don't know, maybe seed Putin some of the territory he has won, otherwise in order to somehow gain peace in Ukraine ? Would this be better in order to stop Putin instead of trying to defeat him ?...

This could be done by getting Zelensky (with our NATO weaponry backing him), to draw a line in the sand sort of like the DMZ area that separates the two Korea's, then everyone involved can meet to negotiate at the peace talks.... It would tell Putin that he shouldn't cross that line any farther in Ukraine, and hopefully Putin will agree seeing that he is the aggressor that is Hell bent on destroying Ukraine by any means necessary if he has too, otherwise if some kind of constructive negotiations don't somehow get going soon.. I know, I know, but Ukraine is winning right, and they are going to defeat Russia eventually right ? What exactly does that mean when it comes to Russia holding it's nuke card ???

Maybe we should strongly convince or tell Zelensky that he must respect the territory already lost to Russia ("unfortunately"), that will now be behind that line in which is to be set......

This would be to then accommodate the Russian speaking ethnic people living in those won territories or regions that Zelensky has since lost to Russia in the hard fought battle's between them all.

The alternative to this is not good, as it draws us closer and closer to a nuclear event taking place whether in Ukraine or if the war was to spill over that border in the wrong direction outside of Ukraine.

I know it sounds crazy, but think about the status quoe, otherwise if allowed to continue on like a locative out of control. Where does it end ? It won't. It only gets worse.

Zelensky has got to give or there might be a possibility that he will be eliminated by a tactical nuke. Not good, as if it ain't bad enough already.

Settling Putin down, and somehow gaining back some diplomacy in the region with both warring parties is the best solution I think... Hopefully that will stop the war before something real bad happens, especially before China and Putin Allie's themselves together in some sort of pact against the west in order to go forth in the world with a communist banner cemented between the two of them, along with any other allies they might bring together under their communist banner.

Zelensky can't be the one to force world war three on us all, otherwise by not giving an inch in the diplomacy department that is involved in things like this. He must listen to level reasoning I'm thinking.

Let's say that Zelensky and his crew might have done some thing's back in 2014 maybe, otherwise that may have led to bad relations with it's Russian neighbor's, so it is that they aren't perfect or completely innocent if they did so in this entire thing either right, so him excepting that fact should lead him to the negotiating table in a bid to stop this thing, and at least hold on to what Ukraine has left as an independent Nation. Continuing the war is a dangerous thing, because Ukraine probably has yet to truly experience the wrath of Putin's total war machine, otherwise if (tactical nukes), were to be unleashed in that theater. Worse yet is Russia's control of the nuclear station that it currently holds also. So much bad is being held in the card's that are unknown it seems. So is Russia bluffing or not when it comes to it's end game ?

An assessment of the poker cards being held by either nation must be analyzed correctly. No room for error.

I wouldn't settle with Putin for anything less than where the borders were before he invaded..... this time. I'm not happy Obama didn't raise a fuss in 2014 when he took Crimea but that is a done deal, I think.

Do you think we should let China take Taiwan even though we have agreed to defend it?

 

[Esdraelon]

The border is not open.

This^ is such a bald-faced lie, no one here should ever take ANYTHING else you have to say about any topic.

 

[beagle9]

I wouldn't settle with Putin for anything less than where the borders were before he invaded..... this time. I'm not happy Obama didn't raise a fuss in 2014 when he took Crimea but that is a done deal, I think.

Do you think we should let China take Taiwan even though we have agreed to defend it?

Is it truly our call about what goes on between Taiwan and China, otherwise you said "should we LET China take Taiwan" ? Let Is a very powerful word, so I ask Is this our arrogance as a nation speaking or do we have the complete unfettered backing of NATO allied forces saying the same thing as you just asked me ?? Do we truly have this kind of control over the region, otherwise that we can decide who or what can pass by permission, anything that goes on within the region ??

 

[beagle9]

This^ is such a bald-faced lie, no one here should ever take ANYTHING else you have to say about any topic.

I agree that it is definitely a lie that the border isn't open, and after watching the Democrat's lie like a rug in these recent hearings, they truly can't be trusted anymore. Not the current crop anyways.

 

[Father O'Blivion]

This^ is such a bald-faced lie, no one here should ever take ANYTHING else you have to say about any topic.

It's not open.

The US southern border is “completely open”? That’s False

Travel bans ordered by President Joe Biden in response to the new coronavirus variant triggered an article from the cons

www.politifact.com

 

[krichton]

Something he is incapable of doing and unwilling to do - be a strong leader, stand up to China - something he has not done yet.

"Stand up to China" Interesting. Biden stands up to Russia, but cons are quick to jump all over Biden for being too aggressive with Russia for providing weapons to Ukraine. They even go so far as to defend Putin. It's safe to say nothing Biden does will ever satisfy the whims of a hyper partisan mob that only understands tribalism.

 

[BS Filter]

In the case of a Chinese-imposed soft quarantine or blockade of Taiwan shipping and aviation, the U.S. and Western response is hardly clear, and a kinetic confrontation could easily widen into war. Even now, minor “accidental” conflict near Taiwan or in the South China Sea may lead to escalation.

Not sure why you are reacting by calling me an idiot. I do not advocate sending “U.S. soldiers” to fight and die for Taiwan independence.

But ex-CIA leader & Trump State Department director Mike Pompeo has already stated we should — and proposals are already being bandied about in Congress to — reject openly the “One China” agreements that allowed Taiwan to develop successfully over the last 40 years. Quite a few U.S. politicians are toying with this idea that the U.S. formally and unilaterally recognize Taiwan’s “sovereign independence.”

More to the point, there are powerful forces proposing the U.S. abandon its “strategic ambiguity” about defending Taiwan. Already over 200 U.S. soldiers are based in Taiwan “training” its soldiers.

These are all extremely provocative moves to the nationalist CCP leadership, which remembers well when as many as 19,000 U.S. army and air force personnel were based in Taiwan, back before agreement on “One China” and related memoranda of agreement limiting U.S. military presence and aid to Taiwan were signed in the 1970s.

I certainly do hope — and expect — that at least during the present Biden Administration we will not see too much further movement in this direction, though of course there are increasing economic and technological sanctions being aimed at the Mainland, as well as more military equipment being sold to Taiwan.

200 US military trainers now in Taiwan | Taiwan News | 2023-04-17 15:42:00

Taiwan preserves legacy of US Air Force operations on the island

This sprawling military installation in central Taiwan is likely the biggest reminder of an era when thousands of U.S. troops were deployed to the island.

www.stripes.com

It should go without saying that I do not support the dictatorship of the CCP on the Mainland, or want to see the democratic system existing in Taiwan snuffed out by XiJinping and his cronies.

China isn't going to war against the USA. It's all noise.

 

[easyt65]

"Stand up to China" Interesting. Biden stands up to Russia, but cons are quick to jump all over Biden for being too aggressive with Russia for providing weapons to Ukraine. They even go so far as to defend Putin. It's safe to say nothing Biden does will ever satisfy the whims of a hyper partisan mob that only understands tribalism.

 

[beagle9]

"Stand up to China" Interesting. Biden stands up to Russia, but cons are quick to jump all over Biden for being too aggressive with Russia for providing weapons to Ukraine. They even go so far as to defend Putin. It's safe to say nothing Biden does will ever satisfy the whims of a hyper partisan mob that only understands tribalism.

Russia, Russia, Russia... The post reference was to China.

 

[beagle9]

China isn't going to war against the USA. It's all noise.

Not yet they aren't, but if Ukraine keeps going, and Putin looks to be on the brink, then China will probably step in further to assist Putin. Why ? Because China can't see itself being placed into subjection to or becoming fearful of NATO, otherwise if NATO were to get a complete victory as an alliance through Ukraine over Russia.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

What mistakes do you think we are making with the China/Taiwan issue? It is certainly a thorny one. I'm not sure a huge and very destructive war that could quite possibly involve nuclear weapons is worth it.

Sorry I haven’t had enough time to answer in detail that tough question about what I’d like to see the Biden Administration and U.S. do differently. Basically I see ALL the mainstream parties making similar errors to the ones we made vis-a-vis Ukraine during the first two decades of this century — though I think there is even less basis for making this unforced error in the Taiwan case.

In Ukraine we should have aimed only at making the country neutral, like Austria after WWII, instead of encouraging hard nationalists to hope for — and Russia to fear — that our aim was to put Ukraine into NATO. Of course Putin’s 2022 invasion has made such considerations more or less mute, at least for now.

In Taiwan imo we should continue encouraging Taiwan’s TSMC and semi-conductor expertise to move and invest off the island, while discouraging the leadership parties and people there from expecting we will actually fight to “save” them. We should make it clear to all that we will not reject our previous “One China” agreements, nor recognize Taiwanese “sovereignty” nor pull them into “our camp” trade-wise or militarily. We should hope the KMT wins the 2024 elections, which I think will go far in pacifying the present CCP leadership, which would prefer NOT to take drastic action.

Taiwan has in many ways become a model democracy, and it will be a tragedy if their vibrant democratic culture is destroyed by the CCP. But in my opinion our conduct is now making their destruction more rather than less likely, and will quite possibly encourage the Chinese state to take action, when they would otherwise settle for the status quo ante if we simply avoided some of what they believe are gross provocations over Taiwan.

I think the Biden Administration — while far more sophisticated than Trump and MAGA — is simply unable to resist “sleepwalking into war” over Taiwan, just as for two decades Democratic & Republican administrations ignored the terrible reality and “red flag” warnings of what actions Putin would take if Ukraine did not remain at least formally “neutral.”

 

[Father O'Blivion]

Sorry I haven’t had enough time to answer in detail that tough question about what I’d like to see the Biden Administration and U.S. do differently. Basically I see ALL the mainstream parties making similar errors to the ones we made vis-a-vis Ukraine during the first two decades of this century — though I think there is even less basis for making this unforced error in the Taiwan case.

In Ukraine we should have aimed only at making the country neutral, like Austria after WWII, instead of encouraging hard nationalists to hope for — and Russia to fear — that our aim was to put Ukraine into NATO. Of course Putin’s 2022 invasion has made such considerations more or less mute, at least for now.

In Taiwan imo we should continue encouraging Taiwan’s TSMC and semi-conductor expertise to move and invest off the island, while discouraging the leadership parties and people there from expecting we will actually fight to “save” them. We should make it clear to all that we will not reject our previous “One China” agreements, nor recognize Taiwanese “sovereignty” nor pull them into “our camp” trade-wise or militarily. We should hope the KMT wins the 2024 elections, which I think will go far in pacifying the present CCP leadership, which would prefer NOT to take drastic action.

Taiwan has in many ways become a model democracy, and it will be a tragedy if their vibrant democratic culture is destroyed by the CCP. But in my opinion our conduct is now making their destruction more rather than less likely, and will quite possibly encourage the Chinese state to take action, when they would otherwise settle for the status quo ante if we simply avoided some of what they believe are gross provocations over Taiwan.

I think the Biden Administration — while far more sophisticated than Trump and MAGA — is simply unable to resist “sleepwalking into war” over Taiwan, just as for two decades Democratic & Republican administrations ignored the terrible reality and “red flag” warnings of what actions Putin would take if Ukraine did not remain at least formally “neutral.”

This is informative. I do think China wants Taiwan regardless of our actions, the only thing keeping them from invading is the threat of a war. I don't think they fear Biden any more or less than Trump on this issue.

I have heard the theory of our pushing Ukraine toward NATO as an excuse for Putin to invade. I think he would have invaded anyway and simply misjudged the Ukrainian defense and definitely misjudged his own military. Perhaps he was lied to by his Generals, but the result is the same nevertheless.

 

[Father O'Blivion]

Not yet they aren't, but if Ukraine keeps going, and Putin looks to be on the brink, then China will probably step in further to assist Putin. Why ? Because China can't see itself being placed into subjection to or becoming fearful of NATO, otherwise if NATO were to get a complete victory as an alliance through Ukraine over Russia.

It depends on what a loss would look like. Russia simply losing Ukraine would not trigger China entering a shooting war with the US. They will try to take advantage economically of a weakened Russia. There was no love lost between China and the USSR.

 

[mamooth]

China is pooping itself, after seeing how badly the Russian weapons they copied have performed. Biden has them scared.

So why this thread? When Russia commands, the Putinbots obey.

 

[beagle9]

It depends on what a loss would look like. Russia simply losing Ukraine would not trigger China entering a shooting war with the US. They will try to take advantage economically of a weakened Russia. There was no love lost between China and the USSR.

In the war chess/positioning game being played now, things have changed dramatically .. Everything is geared towards looking ahead, and China is looking at NATO as a huge threat also, otherwise because of it's combined involvement/efforts and/or actions in Ukraine, and it's looking at NATO's march towards being the strong arm of globalist wanting globalism to prevail for reasons that aren't in line with some nation's religious and cultural ideologies, and NATO will want capitulation of the nations to fall in line eventually in this regard.

 

[beagle9]

China is pooping itself, after seeing how badly the Russian weapons they copied have performed. Biden has them scared.

So why this thread? When Russia commands, the Putinbots obey.

Are you serious ? After that ridiculous post, it will be amazing if you are ever taken serious on this platform again.

 

[Mac-7]

"No fear of consequences" is the root of many problems brought on by the Biden Democrats. Whether it's Democrat politicians, their Media stooges or street criminals.

The chinese economy is in shambles

We dont have to go to war over chinese provocation in the South China Sea

All the nations in the region are now fully aware of the china menace and preparing to resist