China stunned by the ineffectiveness of their air defense batteries in Maduro Raid

[justoffal]

Just read this morning where the Chinese are dumbfounded by the total no show of some of their elite air defense equipment in Venezuela the other day.

So much so that they are now rethinking the Taiwan position

Jo

 

[1srelluc]

The Russians learned the same lesson in Iraq.

 

[Harry Dresden]

i live next to a capt in the AF a pilot who flys the F22's out of Nellis and he told me more than once that the military has things going that we dont know about....

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

i live next to a capt in the AF a pilot who flys the F22's out of Nellis and he told me more than once that the military has things going that we dont know about....

I was in charge of our ship's radar systems in the 1980s. We had things going back then that no one has even heard of today. I still cannot talk about some of the technology we had even back then!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The Russians learned the same lesson in Iraq.

Didn't the Russians also provide Iran's air defense capabilities we annihilated in Midnight Hammer?

 

[JoeB131]

Just read this morning where the Chinese are dumbfounded by the total no show of some of their elite air defense equipment in Venezuela the other day.

So much so that they are now rethinking the Taiwan position

Jo

Whatever fantasies you like.

Reality- Venezuela didn't have the missiles tied into their radar, some systems were still in the warehouses..

And more than likely, this was an inside job. One of Maduro's own people probably sold him out.

 

[justoffal]

Whatever fantasies you like.

Reality- Venezuela didn't have the missiles tied into their radar, some systems were still in the warehouses..

And more than likely, this was an inside job. One of Maduro's own people probably sold him out.

Oh I'm quite sure there was some inside help...
I'm just transferring information I read in military journals.... Why so distressed?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Whatever fantasies you like.

Reality- Venezuela didn't have the missiles tied into their radar, some systems were still in the warehouses..

And more than likely, this was an inside job. One of Maduro's own people probably sold him out.

his VP....

 

[justoffal]

I was in charge of our ship's radar systems in the 1980s. We had things going back then that no one has even heard of today. I still cannot talk about some of the technology we had even back then!

A retired military buddy ( Navy) told me much the same thing.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Just read this morning where the Chinese are dumbfounded by the total no show of some of their elite air defense equipment in Venezuela the other day.

So much so that they are now rethinking the Taiwan position

Jo

Yes, and they now will have to sort things out. Which means their development will come much sooner.

 

[toobfreak]

Just read this morning where the Chinese are dumbfounded by the total no show of some of their elite air defense equipment in Venezuela the other day. So much so that they are now rethinking the Taiwan position

As they should be. Turns out they've been stealing the wrong information from the wrong American universities.

 

[AZrailwhale]

I was in charge of our ship's radar systems in the 1980s. We had things going back then that no one has even heard of today. I still cannot talk about some of the technology we had even back then!

the US generally has unknown systems. When I was in EOD School way back in 1971, the CIA briefed us on a marine mine that they had that could be set to detonate by the acoustic and magnetic signature of a specific ship and was immune to sweeping.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh I'm quite sure there was some inside help...
I'm just transferring information I read in military journals.... Why so distressed?

Because I don't want some idiots saying, "We can take China!!!" and then having thousands of young men coming home in boxes saying, "No, you can't."

his VP....

I wouldn't be surprised if she did. Think about it. Her main claim to fame was that she was the one who got Venezuela's oil industry back on track where they could start doing exports again, the only thing blocking it was Cheeto Hitler's obsession with Maduro.

So why not get rid of Maduro, give yourself a promotion, and start selling oil again?

After all Trump's mewling about Machado, he seems to have embraced Rodriguez pretty quickly.

 

[Unkotare]

Because I don't want some idiots saying, "We can take China!!!" and then having thousands of young men coming home in boxes saying, "No, you can't."



I wouldn't be surprised if she did. Think about it. Her main claim to fame was that she was the one who got Venezuela's oil industry back on track where they could start doing exports again, the only thing blocking it was Cheeto Hitler's obsession with Maduro.

So why not get rid of Maduro, give yourself a promotion, and start selling oil again?

After all Trump's mewling about Machado, he seems to have embraced Rodriguez pretty quickly.

Yeah, yeah, we all know who you're rooting for, agent #21549912548955.

 

[Skull]

China blusters to hide how feeble they are:

 

[Mushroom]

Just read this morning where the Chinese are dumbfounded by the total no show of some of their elite air defense equipment in Venezuela the other day.

Why should this be any surprise at all?

They should have known about that since they have been failing in almost every conflict they have been in for almost a decade. Last year they spectacularly failed in Iran when Israel and the US devastated their air defense systems for days with no losses.

And they also failed many times in Pakistan, Syria, and pretty much every nation in the last decade that has tried to rely upon them.



And there is really no "new secret" system that the US uses, they simply use systems that are proven and reliable. Like the PATRIOT, now on its 5th major upgrade since it was first deployed in the early 1980s. Roughly every decade or so that system has gone through major upgrades, and multiple minor ones every 2-3 years.

And a lot of nations use some really cobbled together crap systems. Like those made by Russia and China, which are engineered to mesh with systems developed in China, the Soviet Union, Russia, and other Warsaw Pact nations going back to the early 1950s. Then throwing in other nations, like Iran. Who's main domestic missile system is just a locally made copy of the freaking 1970s era MIM-23 HAWK, first deployed by the US over 65 years ago and retired by the US Army after the Gulf War. And only used by the Marines until 2002 because they had nothing else.

Part of the reason that the US systems are so reliable is that the US does not promise they will work with every ground based air defense system ever made. HAWK, PATRIOT, and THAAD. Along with a few other systems mostly US Naval based, like AEGIS (as in Aegis Ashore). And even for the HAWK, that is only when it incorporates newer systems as even though it no longer uses it the US still updates and modernizes the system for foreign nations. Some of which the US is now buying back from other nations and modernizing them before sending them to Ukraine.

But when you buy Temu military grade equipment, you get Temu grade performance.

 

[toobfreak]

Why should this be any surprise at all? They should have known about that since they have been failing in almost every conflict they have been in for almost a decade.

Worth adding is that the chinese have also been aiding Russia in its battle to take Ukraine and last I checked, Russia still wasn't going much of anywhere there.

 

[Deadstick]

Didn't the Russians also provide Iran's air defense capabilities we annihilated in Midnight Hammer?

Not really, whatever you say it didn't stop Iranian missiles trashing targets in Israel., and it looks like Trump has backed off at the moment on bombing Iran again because the retaliation wouldn't be pretty for him or Israel.

 

[Deadstick]

Worth adding is that the chinese have also been aiding Russia in its battle to take Ukraine and last I checked, Russia still wasn't going much of anywhere there.

Well you should check again.

 

[Mushroom]

Worth adding is that the chinese have also been aiding Russia in its battle to take Ukraine and last I checked, Russia still wasn't going much of anywhere there.

That is the problem with authoritarian regimes that claim that everything they make is the best.

They all fall into the same loops where they proclaim everything they make is the best. And it becomes even worse when not only are they major arms producers and exporters, but they have not actually been involved in any serious conflicts in a half-century or more. And during that half century their weapons were used by multiple nations on both sides of conflicts, so they can point at any failures as being the fault of the users and not the equipment.

It's all well and good for Russia and China to claim that they produce and sell the best equipment in the world, that is a time honored way to sell anything. But it also can become a dangerous feedback loop for that nation when they start to believe their own claims and those very items are a key part of their own defensive systems.

I learned decades ago to seriously question such claims and predictions without any actual evidence of their performance on the battlefield. Or at a minimum some seriously non-biased real world tests to validate those claims. And both Russia and China have long histories dating back over half a century of producing equipment that simply never works, or denying any problems with any of their equipment and screaming any claims otherwise are lies.

Even when there are clear examples of their lying. Like the GR-1/SS-X-10 SCRAG. An ICBM that the Soviets developed and paraded through Red Square multiple times.

The only problem was, the thing never worked. Yet they maintained the fiction it was real until freaking 1979 when they offered it up as a sacrifice to the SALT II agreement. Quite literally offering to cancel a missile that never worked.

And now that we are seeing how effective Soviet-Chinese equipment is in real world conflicts, the results are extremely underwhelming. Even the fact that Russia has been deadlocked with Ukraine for almost 4 years is a prime example of how much they have fallen. As a lot of the problem has been the failure of their equipment to perform as promised.

One great thing about the current conflict they are in, it has been a great sales tool for the US. Seeing the failures of the S-300 when used defensively by both sides, and at the same time successes there and in other conflicts of PATRIOT has been a great sales tool. It's just too bad for Russia it is for other nations to look away from the S-300 and look back at PATRIOT and other systems.