China moving ahead of the U.S. in wind and solar power

[Chris]

I'm not lying at all. You are an enviroloon who supports other enviroloons who oppose the building of hydro projects.

You're guilty of aiding and abetting.

Liar, liar, liar.

 

[Oddball]

You want some liars, shit biscuit??

Here ya go: http://www.usmessageboard.com/environment/95445-a-globalclimatecoolerwarmering-conspiracy-3.html

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/hadley_hacked#63657

 

[mdn2000]

Who is calling names?

How about showing us YOUR education. Just kidding.

I dont want to point out names all the time, I seriously want people to look into what it takes to build green energy, its a giant scam by corporations that control the government.

Follow the money is the best way to look at all things political, who will make money, are there connections to big business.

Green energy requires a 100% back-up power, that can only be fossil fuel. Anyone who lives in southern california can see this, drive by the wind farm just east of the I-10 interstate freeway and there are hundreds of windmills and amongst the middle of them is a fossil fuel electrical energy plant. It is there because green energy companies are making contracts to provide power, they cannot reliably provide power so they must have a fossil fuel plant to fill the demands of contracts or they get sued, if not sued Southern California edison withholds payment for non-delivery. So a green energy wind farm sells Edison fossil fuel created electricity at the higher green energy rate, the higher rate of green energy although provided for less cost by the green energy company is still passed onto the customer.

Corporations win, those who supply fossil fuel to the wind farms.

Fossil fuel is used at wind farms to provide electricity to the grid and to supply electricity to the wind farm

Proof,

go to google maps. i will try and link to this later

ido a search on 19 ave & Karen ave, palm springs, zoom in and three fossil fuel Co-Gen plants are clearly seen, right in the midst of the oldest wind farm in the nation.

19th ave and karen ave, fossil fuel plant supplies power to a wind farm. Now that is real green energy

The Hoover Dam is green energy.

Does it require backup power?

the hoover dam is not green, dams have never been green, the environut movement was started fighting dams, the Sierra clubs first fight was against dams in the grand canyon.

dams are a tremendous waste of energy, go read the classic environut book that is extremely truthful and made into a PBS series;

The Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner

I own the book, quick news flash for you Chris, I am educated, I know what I speak of, especially in energy. I am not just posting links, I am giving you accurate information in which bullshit just wont fly. I know its all for naught, windmills are being built despite the truth and facts. I wish you were really concerned, shit is going to come and bite you in the ass if it aint already.

Chris, you made the comment that you made more money than me, you may or may not, it really dont matter, despite making 65k this year I live pay day to pay day and cannot afford an increase in the cost of electricity, which reminds me I aint paid the bill in a two months so I better call if I want electricity if I make it to my piece of shit mobil home sitting in the hills of temecula. People should be able to live easily on less than I make, I struggle. I am fucked by the government because I married a woman from brazil, I have paid thousands to get my wife here and the red tape liberals who take government jobs have screwed me, I get to see my kids and wife a month from now simply because life aint free in the USA.

Chris, you may make more than me you may not, dont really matter, I will be broke tomorrow and I pay higher taxes to support liberal ideals, despite all this tonight I will sit down for a meal in Carmel you can only dream of, my elbows will brush with the richest mother-fuckers in the USA. I will drink the same wine and eat the same pasta at Napoli by the Sea, last time I ate here I spent 150$ all by myself, dinner for one, and I had spaghetti and meatballs.

Chris, you aint got shit on no one, money wise or, well I will leave it at that and not take a cheap shot, I would prefer you and all others to see your error.

I support my posts, I can give facts and source, when I speak my knowledge and intelligence is impossible to refute, not because I am smarter, simply because I have recognized truth and have done my homework.

The Hoover dam is not green, the book Cadillac Desert easily proves this, if I was home I would give you quote, I am not home, I do not google, I dont cite wikipedia. Argue if you like, you dont argue with me, you argue with Marc Reisner, the man who wrote Cadillac Desert.

 

[mdn2000]

I note that GWV5903 is a resident of Houston, TX. Further note that Houston is not mentined on his/her list.
By cherry picking regions for sunshine, s/he neglects (lies by omission) to note the entire Southwest, the deep south, as well as the western states of Nevada, Utah, Colorado, and of course California have substantially more sunny days, and hours of sun each day then those s/he listed in the Northwest, New England and Alaska. However, the neglect does not end there, the midwestern states are well known for wind, work is being done to capture wave and tidal power and to more cheaply collect hydrogen from water.

And how many effective hours in one day, how does that change in the winter vs the summer, there is a huge difference in the length of the day in summer and winter, actually its a different number each and every day so it would be more accurate to state how many effective hours for summer, fall, sprng, and winter.

There is not clean energy technology, it is a fact that everything green produces more CO2 than fossil fuel, you must use fossil fuel to build the wind mill, the solar panel, to make hydrogen, and to make a geothermal plant.

Green Energy is not about saving the planet, I have yet to see one person explain how they can make a windmill without using fossil fuels.

Green Energy is an Oxymoron. It simply does not exsist.

So those who support Green Energy and ignore how you produce the power plants are either morons or marxist.

when confronted with a simple fact that has yet to be shown false, when that fact is repeatedly ignored by those of you that supposedly better educated, how can anyone see the green energy supporters as anything but being either a liberal/marxist or a moron

Wow, nice rant. Wind and water mills have been around for centuries, wood fins, wood gears, wood drive shafts for pumping water or grinding grain. My pool is heated by the sun, of course the black hose which circulates the water and the pump were produced using energy, but to pump the water throught the filter and hose requires much less energy than a gas pool heater.
Green energy exists, take rocks heated in the sun and put them in your sleeping bag. Warm, and as green as green gets.
I wonder, do you also believe the earth is flat?

PS
liberal and Marxist are words which describe different world views; calling someone a moron is simply using a pejorative and has zero relevance to the debate. Pejoratives are used by those unable to provide a credible argument.

green energy exists, so prove it, your speaking of windmills, tell us how much energy is used to create a ton of fiberglass, tell us what kinds of energy are used to create a ton of fiberglass, tell us how many tons of fiberglass in one windmill, tell us how much energy the generater connected to the wind turbine could make when connected to heat exchanger used in the primary coolant system of a PWR.

Green energy exists, tell us why there is fossil fuel plant sitting at the corner of 19th ave and Karen ave in palm springs, look it up on google maps and zoom in, this Co-gen plant provided power to a windmill farm.

Tell us how much electrical energy is used in an idle windmill farm.

How many tons of copper are used in each individual windmill?

Green energy does not exist, Morons exsist

 

[Oddball]

Another question I can't get any environutter to unambiguously answer:

How long does one of those goofy windmills have to be up and operating before its so-called "carbon footprint" from manufacturing, shipping, erecting and maintaining it is negated?

 

[Screaming Eagle]

Another question I can't get any environutter to unambiguously answer:

How long does one of those goofy windmills have to be up and operating before its so-called "carbon footprint" from manufacturing, shipping, erecting and maintaining it is negated?

About 10 times as long as it lasts.

 

[mdn2000]

Another question I can't get any environutter to unambiguously answer:

How long does one of those goofy windmills have to be up and operating before its so-called "carbon footprint" from manufacturing, shipping, erecting and maintaining it is negated?

About 10 times as long as it lasts.

Yea but if it dont last forever does it turn green when it dies, I mean, its green right, so even if we throw it in the garbage it makes the earth smell sweet right, its just pure green sweetness giving us good when its created and it never dies, windmills are the jesus, right, saving the earth.

 

[Old Rocks]

Mdn, don't post when you are drunk, you are stupid enough stone cold sober.

 

[mdn2000]

Mdn, don't post when you are drunk, you are stupid enough stone cold sober.

Hey asshole, why dont you post the source in alternative energy, are you too dumb to something as simple as post the source for your own thread.

Stupid yet you hide when I ask you one simple question.

Stupid is old crock in LOL, here is an example, Old Crock stated there was geothermal plant with design flaw at the salton sea in rebuttal to my fact that geothermal is extremely dirty energy. When asked old crock refused to provide the name of the plant. The stupid part is that OLD CROCK than posted an aritcle describing a geothermal plant that is making 100's of millions of dollars, STUPID THING FOR OLD CROCK TO DO, the article was ten years old, the geothermal plant had a design flaw and never worked, total losses of $500,000,000.

Old Crock posted that a geothermal plant had a design flaw
Old Crock when challenged failed to name the plant
Old Crock than used the same plant as an example of profitable clean geothermal
Old Crock used a ten year old article
Old Crock used a crippled money losing geothermal plant that never worked
Old Crock proved Old Crock is stupid

Go post your source for you other thread dumbass, I am tempted to call you a drunk or pot smoker but just cuz folks use drugs or booze dont make them dumb

Old Crock was born dumb, hell he worked in two steel mills, most likely got fired for being dumb, I would not doubt that Old Crock faked an injury and is on disability but thats a different debate that Old Crock will obviously deny, point being:

A person born a dumb-ass-fool will always be a dumb-ass-fool, old crock goes out of his way to prove this

 

[mdn2000]

Another question I can't get any environutter to unambiguously answer:

How long does one of those goofy windmills have to be up and operating before its so-called "carbon footprint" from manufacturing, shipping, erecting and maintaining it is negated?

About 10 times as long as it lasts.

Yea but if it dont last forever does it turn green when it dies, I mean, its green right, so even if we throw it in the garbage it makes the earth smell sweet right, its just pure green sweetness giving us good when its created and it never dies, windmills are the jesus, right, saving the earth.

over board sarcasm but where does a 270 ton windmill get thrown away?
That point is in there, the stupid cant see that though.

 

[Chris]

About 10 times as long as it lasts.

Yea but if it dont last forever does it turn green when it dies, I mean, its green right, so even if we throw it in the garbage it makes the earth smell sweet right, its just pure green sweetness giving us good when its created and it never dies, windmills are the jesus, right, saving the earth.

over board sarcasm but where does a 270 ton windmill get thrown away?
That point is in there, the stupid cant see that though.

No, you are stupid.

America spends $100 billion dollars a year on foreign oil.

It is the greatest national security threat we face.

Alternative energy is made in America.

 

[mdn2000]

Yea but if it dont last forever does it turn green when it dies, I mean, its green right, so even if we throw it in the garbage it makes the earth smell sweet right, its just pure green sweetness giving us good when its created and it never dies, windmills are the jesus, right, saving the earth.

over board sarcasm but where does a 270 ton windmill get thrown away?
That point is in there, the stupid cant see that though.

No, you are stupid.

America spends $100 billion dollars a year on foreign oil.

It is the greatest national security threat we face.

Alternative energy is made in America.

no, your stupid

America spends on foreign oil, so what, we spend money all kinds of foreign stuff, I saw this on TV, Barack Obama said we spent this moeny and now you repeat what Obama said, wow, that makes you so smart.

Alternative energy is made in the USA, nope, its not, tiny portion but the majority is made overseas.

Vesta is one of the biggest exporters of windmills to the USA, buying the fiberglass from China.

So Chris is stupid, Chris thought alternative energy was made in the USA.

Oil, you cannot make fiberglass without oil, currently I am researching fiberglass production. You cannot make fiberglass without fossil fuels. How can a wind mill be green if you use fossil fuels to make it, wind mills use more energy than they make.

Middle Eastern oil is the best oil in the world that is why we use it, that is why Obama is doing nothing to end our use of Middle Eastern oil, the oil companies are pushing for green energy because they are the same people who make windmills. The more raw materials these democrat business men can use and sell the more money they make, windmills is the biggest market for the oil companies as far as petrochemicals go and for the raw materials their other businesses produce.

Not one word from the Oil Companies protesting green energy, why, because its using what they produce and a greater rate.

 

[HUGGY]

ANAHEIM, Calif. — The world's solar companies gathered here recently amid the nation's largest solar market under a brilliant sun – and the looming shadow of China.
China leads the world in making solar cells, the key component in solar panels, many of which are exported to the U.S.

But China is setting itself up to do more than just manufacture components for renewable energy, such as wind and solar. It's also spending heavily to build its own domestic market as it attempts to battle its greenhouse gas emissions, electrify its nation of 1.3 billion people and curb its massive pollution problem.

The buildup of a huge market in China for renewable energy is luring global manufacturers and research teams to China, energy executives say. That's causing concern in some corners that China – not the U.S. – will emerge as the hub of the new industries, leaving the U.S. as dependent on foreign nations for solar panels, wind turbines and other green-energy equipment and technology as it is on the Mideast for oil.

"The Chinese government has recognized that these industries are the 21st century's industries of importance, and it wants to be the Silicon Valley of renewables," says Alan Salzman, CEO of U.S.-based VantagePoint Venture Partners, which specializes in clean energy and clean tech investments.

He says the U.S. hasn't been as clear or as determined as China, a stance echoed by Energy Secretary Steven Chu in testimony before a Senate committee last month.

While China spends about $9 billion a month on clean energy development, the U.S. "has fallen behind," Chu said. He noted that the world's largest turbine-making company is headquartered in Denmark, that 99% of batteries for America's hybrid cars are made in Japan and that the U.S. has lost most of its solar cell manufacturing industry.

China pushes solar, wind power development - USATODAY.com

T Boone Pickens made us an offer over a year ago and it is still on the table. Someone like that is what it will take to pick up the ball and run with it. Commitees do not move enterprise.

 

[Screaming Eagle]

Actually T Boone has backed out and now has a huge amount of surplus inventory he doesn't know what to do with.

 

[mdn2000]

while China spends about $9 billion a month on clean energy development

to

Key point is this is not 9 billion on buying windmills, this is 9 billion investing in Nuclear and Fossil fuel plants to supply power to fiberglass producers as well as build factories for all aspects of building windmills to sell the the USA.

Westinghouse is selling AP1000 reactors to China, not sure of the number but I beleive 8 to start.

Wired magazine ran an article stating china plans on building one hundred reactors.

 

[Old Rocks]

while China spends about $9 billion a month on clean energy development

to

Key point is this is not 9 billion on buying windmills, this is 9 billion investing in Nuclear and Fossil fuel plants to supply power to fiberglass producers as well as build factories for all aspects of building windmills to sell the the USA.

Westinghouse is selling AP1000 reactors to China, not sure of the number but I beleive 8 to start.

Wired magazine ran an article stating china plans on building one hundred reactors.

When are you going to stop pulling gibberish out of your asshole, Mdn?

The Chinese have been using windmills for over 2000 years. And they are now a leading manufacturer of modern wind turbines.

The Niles Star » John Eby: Tilting at Chinese windmills with Lowe and Iacocca

The day before Halloween the Wall Street Journal trumpeted news that a Chinese firm will be the exclusive supplier to one of the largest wind-farm developments in the United States.

Trick or treat! And when did “business leaders” become an oxymoron?

Also, the developer of the project will be seeking U.S. taxpayer assistance!

Just like all the other overpaid, risk-averse captains of industry who used to espouse free markets and the invisible hand.

Are we nuts? We finally find something America could conceivably make to offset the collapse of our car industry and government intrusion into the marketplace and this opportunity is being outsourced, too?

If American firms can’t competitively build clean energy projects, either, this country is doomed.

The 36,000-acre West Texas development announced it would purchase 240 2.5-megawatt wind turbines from Shenyang Power Group, a five-month-old alliance with operations in China.