Chick-fil-A: Franchise Operators Must "Participate in Group Prayers"

[Dick Tuck]

Even Jesus says this is wrong,

But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Matthew 6:6

Matt 10:27
What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops

There's a difference between prayer and preaching. I think the Quakers got this one right.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Even Jesus says this is wrong,

Matthew 6:6

Matt 10:27
What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops

There's a difference between prayer and preaching. I think the Quakers got this one right.

As if you have any experience with either...

 

[Full-Auto]

Matt 10:27
What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops

There's a difference between prayer and preaching. I think the Quakers got this one right.

As if you have any experience with either...

Now now, he prays that monthly check arrives on time......

 

[The T]

There's a difference between prayer and preaching. I think the Quakers got this one right.

As if you have any experience with either...

Now now, he prays that monthly check arrives on time......

 

[martybegan]

What a preposterous concept.

Problem: "Don't like the fact that your rights are being infringed over here?"

Solution: "Go over there where you and your rights will be respected!"

Your rights can't be infringed WHEN YOU WILLINGLY SIGN A CONTRACT AGREEING TO A GIVEN ACTION YOU THUNDERING IDIOT.

How many times do I have to repeat the fact that a person can't be required to relinquish their constitutional rights as a condition for entering a contract? Nor can they be held to provisions which deny them their rights.

But perhaps you constitutional and legal illiterates need more concrete examples. So be it.

Let's say that a person signs the contract in good faith. Later on, he either converts to a different faith OR becomes an atheist after never really having any strong feelings about religion one way or the other. So, he no longer wants to participate in these group prayers because he no longer believes what he previously did.

Will C-f-A attempt to force this person to adhere to what is essentially a religious requirement in order to keep his franchise? Or will he be forced to relinquish his livelihood?

Now, IF Christians can't see the injustice of this because, after all, they are in possession of THE truth, perhaps they might see it differently if a franchise tried to require someone to openly state a belief that there was no God (essentially, an atheist requirement) in order to get a franchise in the first place. And what if that person, an avowed atheist, later has a religious conversion and commits his life to Christ? Should the owner of the business be allowed to discriminate against the holder of the franchise based solely on his new-found faith? Yes or no? If the answer is yes (that a business owner is legally able to discriminate against a person on the basis of his faith alone despite the fact that the business has no overt religious component to it), then, a precedent would be set that contracts could be used to deny people their 1st Amendment rights (and probably other constitutional rights, as well).

What he can do is sell the franchise, thus getting out of the contract. His choice to not adhere to the contract is his CHOICE. The person writing the contract to include participation in prayers is thier CHOICE.

What about when a person signs up for the military? They sign away alot of their actual rights, to an actual government entitiy, and they can be held to it.

And again, the consitutuion is a compact between people and the government, not people and other people, with the exception of owning slaves and transporting hooch into dry states or counties.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No one has to own a Chick Fil A franchise, they can go to any of hundreds of others.

What a preposterous concept.

Problem: "Don't like the fact that your rights are being infringed over here?"

Solution: "Go over there where you and your rights will be respected!"

All franchises have contracts that, if we adopt your interpretation, limit the rights of the people that buy into them. As an example, if you buy a Subway franchise you cannot sell Quizno's sandwiches. Do you think that is outrageous, or do you think that is common sense? If the latter, what makes a franchise that encourages, not demands, Christian values different? IS all of your outrage aimed at something you do not understand because you think the constitution gives you the right not to follow a contract you signed?

 

[Dick Tuck]

Matt 10:27
What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops

There's a difference between prayer and preaching. I think the Quakers got this one right.

As if you have any experience with either...

You're quite an ignorant jerk off. I bet your the type that makes a big show of going to church on Sunday and spends the rest of the week being a hateful moron.

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

 

[Cecilie1200]

A franchisee cannot be fired? Cathy has stated that "he would probably terminate the contract of an operator who had done something sinful..."

We're talking about a distinction without a difference. "Oh, I'm not firing you! I'm terminating your contract." See, it's COMPLETELY different."

Do you understand the difference between "firing" someone and "terminating a business contract"? Probably not, since you've already demonstrated you don't know shit about business contracts or franchises.

We're talking about something that's NONE OF YOUR FRIGGING BUSINESS. Are you a Chick-Fil-A franchisee? Someone hold a gun to your head and force you to sign a contract to open one of their stores, did they? No? Then what's it to you what contracts other people decide to sign?

My God, educate yourself a little and stop sounding like such a schmuck.

What is franchise? definition and meaning

Franchising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Franchise Definition | Investopedia

I can't doing anything about it since I don't have standing. But I certainly hope some franchisee takes them to court.

Why would they? Because YOU don't like the contract? Who cares? You just don't seem to be getting it into your rock skull that these people KNEW WHAT THEY WERE SIGNING AND SIGNED IT ANYWAY. They don't have any objections to the provisions, or they wouldn't be Chick-Fil-A franchisees.

Even if they went to court, the court would say, "Did you read the contract before you signed it? Yes? So you knew these provisions were in it? And you signed it anyway? Too bad for you."

 

[GuyPinestra]

There's a difference between prayer and preaching. I think the Quakers got this one right.

As if you have any experience with either...

You're quite an ignorant jerk off. I bet your the type that makes a big show of going to church on Sunday and spends the rest of the week being a hateful moron.

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

You ASSume too much, Dick Suck.

You lose......AGAIN.

 

[Cecilie1200]

A franchisee cannot be fired? Cathy has stated that "he would probably terminate the contract of an operator who had done something sinful..."

We're talking about a distinction without a difference. "Oh, I'm not firing you! I'm terminating your contract." See, it's COMPLETELY different."

so if you get thrown out of your apartment because you broke the rules of the contract does that mean you are "fired".....?

do you then get unemployment compensation.....?

Can a person legally be evicted from an apartment for refusing to pray with the apartment building owner when he is otherwise paying his rent on time and is in full compliance with the provisions of his lease?

Are rental contracts the same as franchise contracts? No, I don't believe they are, so why are you wasting our time conflating two utterly different circumstances with nothing in common?

 

[The T]

Do you understand the difference between "firing" someone and "terminating a business contract"? Probably not, since you've already demonstrated you don't know shit about business contracts or franchises.

We're talking about something that's NONE OF YOUR FRIGGING BUSINESS. Are you a Chick-Fil-A franchisee? Someone hold a gun to your head and force you to sign a contract to open one of their stores, did they? No? Then what's it to you what contracts other people decide to sign?

My God, educate yourself a little and stop sounding like such a schmuck.

What is franchise? definition and meaning

Franchising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Franchise Definition | Investopedia

I can't doing anything about it since I don't have standing. But I certainly hope some franchisee takes them to court.

Why would they? Because YOU don't like the contract? Who cares? You just don't seem to be getting it into your rock skull that these people KNEW WHAT THEY WERE SIGNING AND SIGNED IT ANYWAY. They don't have any objections to the provisions, or they wouldn't be Chick-Fil-A franchisees.

Even if they went to court, the court would say, "Did you read the contract before you signed it? Yes? So you knew these provisions were in it? And you signed it anyway? Too bad for you."

He doesn't care. Mustink has an axe to grind.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's not off base in the least. It's religious discrimination which, by the way, is something that conservatives are always crying about. Chick-fil-A is imposing their religious values on people who essentially work FOR them, whether they're called employees, or franchisees, or contract workers. The end result is still the same.

Show me the law CFA is breaking with these requirements of franchisee owners.

I know for a FACT that a person cannot legally sign away their constitutional rights in a contract. That's why, as an example, there's no such thing as someone who can legally selling themselves into slavery.

Too bad for your point that there's no "Constitutional right" in play here.

 

[OODA_Loop]

He doesn't care. Mustink has an axe to grind.

Tolerant ? Not very.

 

[The T]

He doesn't care. Mustink has an axe to grind.

Tolerant ? Not very.

Nope. He has latched himself into leftist groupthink that belives you must be forced into a herd.

NO ONE is forced to sign a contract if it is against thier beliefs. He should contact RIF for clarification...Hooked on phonics maybe?

 

[Mustang]

Do you understand the difference between "firing" someone and "terminating a business contract"? Probably not, since you've already demonstrated you don't know shit about business contracts or franchises.

We're talking about something that's NONE OF YOUR FRIGGING BUSINESS. Are you a Chick-Fil-A franchisee? Someone hold a gun to your head and force you to sign a contract to open one of their stores, did they? No? Then what's it to you what contracts other people decide to sign?

My God, educate yourself a little and stop sounding like such a schmuck.

What is franchise? definition and meaning

Franchising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Franchise Definition | Investopedia

I can't doing anything about it since I don't have standing. But I certainly hope some franchisee takes them to court.

Why would they? Because YOU don't like the contract? Who cares? You just don't seem to be getting it into your rock skull that these people KNEW WHAT THEY WERE SIGNING AND SIGNED IT ANYWAY. They don't have any objections to the provisions, or they wouldn't be Chick-Fil-A franchisees.

Even if they went to court, the court would say, "Did you read the contract before you signed it? Yes? So you knew these provisions were in it? And you signed it anyway? Too bad for you."

Because I don't like it when people think they have a right to use their greater relative power and/or leverage in the workplace to push their personal or religious values onto other people in or outside of the workplace or that they have some kind of right to approve of how someone lives or what they believe in order to belong to an organization that isn't religious in nature. And I would feel that way regardless of the religion, or political philosophy involved. If you have a job or a source of income, it's is NONE of their business whether you're religious, or not. And no one (not the gov't, not your employer, not your home owner's association, and not any business that offers public accommodations) has a right to insist that you pass some kind of religious test.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Personally, I think that all this Chick-fil-A brouhaha is much ado about nonsense. People on both sides need to get a life and stop acting so damn childish.

HOWEVER, it has managed to shed a light on some CfA internal requirements for franchisees that, in my humble opinion, is anathema to the notion of freedom in this country and what is and IS NOT appropriate for an employer to expect and demand out of an employee.

I don't read Daily Kos, but this was the first site where I could find this information. That's why I included it here.

they're not employes.

no one forces them to buy a franchise.

you may or may not wish to unbunch your panties now.

have a pleasant day.

While franchisees supposedly are not 'required' to be Christian, my guess is that most (if not all) franchisees are (or profess to be) Christians. Regardless, as a condition for being awarded a franchise, the operators are required or coerced into participating in group prayer.

Now, let's start with a premise at this point. IF there actually ARE some franchisees who are NOT Christian, doesn't it stand to reason that they feel that they're required to pray to a God they don't believe in just to maintain their franchise?

There is no coercion involved in a freely-disclosed contract stipulation to which one has voluntarily agreed.

Let's start with a premise at this point. If someone is a franchisee, he has CHOSEN of his own free will to purchase that franchise, knowing before the fact that group prayer is part of the deal. Doesn't it stand to reason that if he felt group prayer was a problem for him, he would have bought a Burger King store instead?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Now, let's start with a premise at this point. IF there actually ARE some franchisees who are NOT Christian, doesn't it stand to reason that they feel that they're required to pray to a God they don't believe in just to maintain their franchise?

They shouldn't have bought into that system to begin with.

I can't decide if Mustang thinks someone forced these people to sign the franchise contracts, or if he thinks they were unaware of this stipulation until after they had signed.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I know for a FACT that a person cannot legally sign away their constitutional rights in a contract. That's why, as an example, there's no such thing as someone who can legally selling themselves into slavery.

you mean that you can volutarily agree to do non-religious things but you cannot voluntarily agree to do religious things.....?

If it's truly voluntary to engage in group prayer, then a person may decline to pray as well as agree to pray. Since declining obviously is not an option if one wants to maintain their franchise, then it's obviously not voluntary.

See how that works?

The declining happens when you read the contract, see that clause, and say, "Oh, no thanks, I don't want to join a group of which this is a part", and then go open a Subway store instead.

See how that works?

 

[The T]

I can't doing anything about it since I don't have standing. But I certainly hope some franchisee takes them to court.

Why would they? Because YOU don't like the contract? Who cares? You just don't seem to be getting it into your rock skull that these people KNEW WHAT THEY WERE SIGNING AND SIGNED IT ANYWAY. They don't have any objections to the provisions, or they wouldn't be Chick-Fil-A franchisees.

Even if they went to court, the court would say, "Did you read the contract before you signed it? Yes? So you knew these provisions were in it? And you signed it anyway? Too bad for you."

Because I don't like it when people think they have a right to use their greater relative power and/or leverage in the workplace to push their personal or religious values onto other people in or outside of the workplace or that they have some kind of right to approve of how someone lives or what they believe in order to belong to an organization that isn't religious in nature. And I would feel that way regardless of the religion, or political philosophy involved. If you have a job or a source of income, it's is NONE of their business whether you're religious, or not. And no one (not the gov't, not your employer, not your home owner's association, and not any business that offers public accommodations) has a right to insist that you pass some kind of religious test.

You mean like UNIONS?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I can't doing anything about it since I don't have standing. But I certainly hope some franchisee takes them to court.

Why would they? Because YOU don't like the contract? Who cares? You just don't seem to be getting it into your rock skull that these people KNEW WHAT THEY WERE SIGNING AND SIGNED IT ANYWAY. They don't have any objections to the provisions, or they wouldn't be Chick-Fil-A franchisees.

Even if they went to court, the court would say, "Did you read the contract before you signed it? Yes? So you knew these provisions were in it? And you signed it anyway? Too bad for you."

Because I don't like it when people think they have a right to use their greater relative power and/or leverage in the workplace to push their personal or religious values onto other people in or outside of the workplace or that they have some kind of right to approve of how someone lives or what they believe in order to belong to an organization that isn't religious in nature. And I would feel that way regardless of the religion, or political philosophy involved. If you have a job or a source of income, it's is NONE of their business whether you're religious, or not. And no one (not the gov't, not your employer, not your home owner's association, and not any business that offers public accommodations) has a right to insist that you pass some kind of religious test.

Who gives a **** what you like or don't like? Who the hell are you?

Here's a thought, don't buy a Chick-fil-a franchise and I think this will have zero impact on your life. You libs slay me, in the name of tolerance we must all goosestep to your tune or else.