Charlie Gard has passed

[Coyote]

Understand that by APRIL -- Courts had already RULED not only to deny transfer of care --- BUT they ruled to PULL HIS PLUG.. To kill him back in April... And there were extensions to this. But it took from January to April for fucking Bureaucracy to RULE. And then an appeal to the Intl Courts.

Parents had procured FUNDING and the tactical problems of life flighting over to the US in JANUARY...

Dr Hirano would NOT have allowed that transfer to happen, if he believed it would kill the child or that the child was too far progressed to treat.. IN JANUARY --- when it NEEDED to happen..

Timeline: Parents' battle to save Charlie Gard

The PROCESS killed Charlie and they wanted him DEAD BEFORE April...

No one wanted him dead.

By January they had determined he had deteriorated to far. You are creating unnecessary villains.

Oh HELL no. Not in January. BHS decided they were gonna FIGHT IT in January. But statements from Hirano say that by June -- he had been ignored too long..

In April -- the court ordered him DEAD. But that was their attitude ALL ALONG..

Maybe not...Charlie Gard: how new brain scans showed he could not be helped

Charlie Gard’s parents were told that their son had irreversible brain damage after he suffered seizures before Christmas, but they did not believe it. They maintained that an MRI scan in January showed the brain was normal. That has been the crux of the difference between parents and the hospital. Connie Yates and Chris Gard, bolstered by the opinions of doctors in other countries who had not seen their child, believed treatment was possible.

Their hopes came to an end at the weekend, after Michio Hirano, the US neurologist who had offered an experimental drug therapy, finally accepted an invitation that had been open since Christmas to come to London and see Charlie. He was expected to explain in court the new evidence that he said suggested nucleoside bypass therapy (NBT) could help Charlie.

Instead, the parents’ lawyer stood up to say they were ending their legal fight. He stated that Charlie’s muscle wastage meant it was too late to treat him. But Hirano, who had not seen Charlie, the scans or the medical notes when he made a first appearance in court on 13 July,
had been shown new imaging of the brain damage that Great Ormond Street hospital (Gosh) had always said was irreversible.

 

[Coyote]

A Socialized Medicine Death Panel killed that child.

No "god" worth following would allow an innocent baby to suffer like this.

Baby was not "suffering". What the hell you talking about? The suffering came in 5 MONTHS after the Brit Govt BLOCKED the transfer of this child to the treatment they had selected.

Govt even PREFERRED he died in April..

You haven't a clue when the suffered started or ended. Only the kid did....

Kid wasn't conscious after about April..

Actually since December I think.

 

[Coyote]

The left has certainly deflected from the only real issue. People who had the ability to pay for treatment were prohibited from receiving anything but death.

There was not and is not any "treatment".

The US doctors were clear that all they could do was extend his time on a respirator.

Nothing else.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

That wasn't true in January thru April.. By June/July, it was too late. Had the NHS not sent this court and tied it up and ORDERED CHARLIE TO DIE in April --- THERE WAS a hefty chance of remission. Actually BETTER than many cancer chemo therapies.

Get your facts straight.

How do you know there was "hefty chance" of remission?

Because the process actually REMAKES the mitochrondrial tranfers work in creating NEW tissue. And the researchers were seeing up to 50% REMISSION --- not just halting the disease in tissue that was still viable.

The low end/high end given in JANUARY was 15% to 50%.. Read the statement of the guy who had his "dead" child saved by this treatment.

NOBODY is ever "gonna get rich" off of a process that affects such a small percentage. But it's a stepping stone to reaching OTHER gene therapy treatments and THESE Weirder rarer cases could be done completely "gratis"... Because they now can. OR nearly can... And it helps the learning curve between LAB results and actual human trials.

BHS is gonna just close the door on all that. Because they don't want the costs of the Labs, researchers and treatments. It's a political/financial motivation..

Charlie's mutation isn't even the same as that other child. It's also not going to recreate severely damaged brain tissue or Charlie's condition wouldn't have mattered. The child who seems to have showed some very very slight improvement doesnt even have the same mutation.

It has nothing to do with BHS, read the articles.

 

[Coyote]

Noise noise noise. NO -- I stand by my answer. A "profit driven" insurance company NEVER prevents personal choices to choose and fund alternative treatments..

You can persist. But you'd just prove the axiom that leftists have no conception of how things actually work..

And the right's main mantra is "UK health bad, US health good". The main plank from the righties is that the US health system sucks and this is a prime example. All Jillian - and Joe to an extent - are pointing out, if this was the US system he wouldn't have gotten any treatment either...

RIGHT NOW -- because of govt laziness and incompetence and arrogance --- we're about 1 year short of COMPLETE COLLAPSE of our system.. Good job partisans... NOT a good time to compare -- is it really?

Now THAT I will agree with you on...sadly.

 

[Synthaholic]

Oh hell no.. Single payer will OUTLAW doctors performing procedures that are NOT proscribed the way the GOVT WRITES the reimbursements

Oh, really? Please show me the text of this single payer bill, Nostradamus.

 

[Dr Grump]

And the right's main mantra is "UK health bad, US health good". The main plank from the righties is that the US health system sucks and this is a prime example. All Jillian - and Joe to an extent - are pointing out, if this was the US system he wouldn't have gotten any treatment either...

RIGHT NOW -- because of govt laziness and incompetence and arrogance --- we're about 1 year short of COMPLETE COLLAPSE of our system.. Good job partisans... NOT a good time to compare -- is it really?

My bad I meant "is that the UK health system sucks"

 

[koshergrl]

Health Rationing In England: Obese And Smokers Banned From Routine Surgery

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Bless you little one.

Charlie Gard, focus of international legal health battle, dies week before first birthday

British baby Charlie Gard, who was at the center of a legal battle that captured the world’s attention, died Friday, one week before his first birthday, UK’s Press Association reports.

Charlie Gard, focus of international legal health battle, dies week before first birthday

There's another baby now Alfie Evans, they do not know what sickness he has, his parents say that 20 hospitals in America have offered to look at the baby but the British Hospital are saying no and against the parents wishes want to turn off his life support and then he'll of course die.

The difference with Charlie Gard and Alfie Evans is that they do not know what sickness this baby has, they have not been able to give a diagnosis, this makes it more sinister because IF they don't KNOW what is wrong with this baby WHY do they INSIST his life support is ended KNOWING he'll die.

This from July 3rd - parents should NOT have to FIGHT Government funded Hospitals and Doctors to keep their OWN baby alive. Parents have RIGHTS.

Parents want diagnosis for son before they're 'forced to turn life support off'

This from July 31st.

Charlie Gard supporters rally round baby as father faces fight to keep him alive

This from July 31st.

Another Charlie Gard Case?

This is Alfie Evans aged 14 months old.

His parents CrowdFunding website.

Help raise £10000 to Get Alfie Evans a diagnosis and treatment!! #alfiesarmy #littlebluewarrior #alfieswar #alfiesfight

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Health Rationing In England: Obese And Smokers Banned From Routine Surgery

The British are letting babies die and against parents wishes wanting and forcing the life support to end. See my latest post about baby Alfie Evans, who has not even been diagnosed so they don't know what sickness he has but the British NHS want him dead.

 

[Synthaholic]

You haven't a clue when the suffered started or ended. Only the kid did....

Kid wasn't conscious after about April..

This doesn't gel with what the religious right said during the Terry Schiavo disaster.

 

[DarkFury]

A lot of folks are getting off point here and mired in shit. The point was this pre paid supposed free medical care for all is truly not for all. A third party decides if you are deserving. Those debating his deserving are no better then the death panel.

The death panel looked at his health and decided he was not worth the money. After the parents secured the money the death panel turned down a billionaire president to show its political power. The debate has nothing to do with would Charlie have lived but why was Charlie forced to die?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

You haven't a clue when the suffered started or ended. Only the kid did....

Kid wasn't conscious after about April..

This doesn't gel with what the religious right said during the Terry Schiavo disaster.

The British want this baby Alfie Evans to die, his parents are having to FIGHT the British NHS and the Hospital Doctors to KEEP his life support on, the Doctors do not even know what is wrong with this baby, so if they do not know what is wrong with him HOW do they know he can't be saved by treatment if like his parents want to take him to America where his father says 20 Hospitals have offered to look at the baby and see if they can discover what sickness he has.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Bless you little one.

Charlie Gard, focus of international legal health battle, dies week before first birthday

British baby Charlie Gard, who was at the center of a legal battle that captured the world’s attention, died Friday, one week before his first birthday, UK’s Press Association reports.

Charlie Gard, focus of international legal health battle, dies week before first birthday

There's another baby now Alfie Evans, they do not know what sickness he has, his parents say that 20 hospitals in America have offered to look at the baby but the British Hospital are saying no and against the parents wishes want to turn off his life support and then he'll of course die.

The difference with Charlie Gard and Alfie Evans is that they do not know what sickness this baby has, they have not been able to give a diagnosis, this makes it more sinister because IF they don't KNOW what is wrong with this baby WHY do they INSIST his life support is ended KNOWING he'll die.

View attachment 141612

This from July 3rd - parents should NOT have to FIGHT Government funded Hospitals and Doctors to keep their OWN baby alive. Parents have RIGHTS.

Parents want diagnosis for son before they're 'forced to turn life support off'

View attachment 141613

This from July 31st.

Charlie Gard supporters rally round baby as father faces fight to keep him alive

This from July 31st.

Another Charlie Gard Case?

This is Alfie Evans aged 13 months old.

View attachment 141615

His parents CrowdFunding website.

Help raise £10000 to Get Alfie Evans a diagnosis and treatment!! #alfiesarmy #littlebluewarrior #alfieswar #alfiesfight

British father seeking US treatment for his ill baby | Daily Mail Online

The baby should be allowed to travel to the hospital in Miami that his father mentions and he says have Alfie Evans details.

The baby is in danger of imminent death from the British NHS who want to kill him and want to go to Court so Judges can give them the okay to kill this baby.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

There's more to this spate of let 'em die. This is background. It's to create precedent to prohibit any patient from paying for medical care.

 

[flacaltenn]

Oh hell no.. Single payer will OUTLAW doctors performing procedures that are NOT proscribed the way the GOVT WRITES the reimbursements

Oh, really? Please show me the text of this single payer bill, Nostradamus.

Single Payer means SINGLE PAYER. All medical tasks will be performed and reimbursed as DICTATED in the reimbursement codes. That's how they stopped me in Medicare from paying an $1000 to an anthesiologist to put my Dad under for a procedure. If I DID THAT -- none of the other doctors would be reimbursed for that procedure. OR for the prelim visits or follow-ups. AND it's not legal..

No "pay-arounds" in socialized medicine. All the proletariat is the same patient. OTHERWISE, those awful RICH bastards would be "bribing" doctors at the Brit NHS to move them up MONTHS for a procedure they need to stay alive.. Couldn't have that.. Could we comrade???

Learn how things work. Makes forming opinions a USEFUL past time.. .

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Oh hell no.. Single payer will OUTLAW doctors performing procedures that are NOT proscribed the way the GOVT WRITES the reimbursements

Oh, really? Please show me the text of this single payer bill, Nostradamus.

Single Payer means SINGLE PAYER. All medical tasks will be performed and reimbursed as DICTATED in the reimbursement codes. That's how they stopped me in Medicare from paying an $1000 to an anthesiologist to put my Dad under for a procedure. If I DID THAT -- none of the other doctors would be reimbursed for that procedure. OR for the prelim visits or follow-ups. AND it's not legal..

No "pay-arounds" in socialized medicine. All the proletariat is the same patient. OTHERWISE, those awful RICH bastards would be "bribing" doctors at the Brit NHS to move them up MONTHS for a procedure they need to stay alive.. Couldn't have that.. Could we comrade???

Learn how things work. Makes forming opinions a USEFUL past time.. .

Perhaps you could take a leaf out of your own book and learn how things work. In the UK you can go private if you have the means. Google Spire Healthcare,they are one of many companies in this field.
And private insurance is available. Some companies provide it as a benefit. I had it myself for several years and had to take a procedure through it because of the terms of my employment. It was called key people cover or similar and meant that you got seen when your employer could spare you.
The thing is though these policies only cover you for standard production line conditions.Anything difficult or long term is not covered because there is no profit in it for the insurers.
So ,contrary to your ghoulish vision, there is choice in the UK. Apart from when you have something bad and then only the state is willing to pick up the tab.
Th debate that you are having in the US is probably similar to one the rest of the world had 50 or 60 years ago. And it divides like this. On the one side there are people who are doing all right and can afford decent health care.And on the other side there are people who are poor and cant afford it.
The former have all the press and media on their side because of corporate interests. And they manage to rope in some willing idiots who think a public health service is somehow Un American.
But the tide is turning. Better to have sick people treated than another private jet for an insurance boss.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

In the UK you can go private if you have the means

And yet they couldn't.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

In the UK you can go private if you have the means

And yet they couldn't.

It was never a question of cash. It was about the best outcome for the child. The court stood up for him in a difficult and emotional situation.

 

[JoeB131]

No reason except for a political one. They can not tolerate our system possibly being able to help a child that theirs couldn't.

Or they realized that continuing treatments was just plain old cruel.

I still don't understand why the parents were overridden by the judge.

It couldn't have been about the money, because sufficient funds had been raised to pay for the US trip, and subsequent treatment.

Because as Coyote pointed out, every medical professional who had examined him had determined he had no prognosis for recovery. It wasn't about the money, it was about the cruelty of continuing treatment to make the parents feel better.

 

[JoeB131]

Stop trying to explain that the best interests of the patient is to die. That's ridiculous. Many killers have used that excuse. It doesn't work.

Socialized medicine is all about how many people die. That's success. It's part of utopian philosophy. Medical innovation and extending life is prohibited and that is why Charlie Gard died.

Here's the thing... EVERYBODY DIES.

So when discussing the merits of Socialized medicine vs. Corporate Medicine, let's look at the results.

The UK has a longer life expectancy and lower infant mortality rates. Yes, you might wait longer to see a doctor, but you will get to see one.

And re-reading the stuff posted by Coyote, it wasn't like the NHS wasn't spending shitloads of money on Gard, because they were. A case like this he'd have been cut off by his insurance company a long time ago.