bigrebnc1775
][][][% NC Sheepdog
Of course income went up during the Reagan years. The work Carter had done was coming to bear.
Carter did noting but grow government new hand out programs. He did nothing.
Census finds record gap between Rich and Poor
- Thread starter rightwinger
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Carter did noting but grow government new hand out programs. He did nothing.
georgephillip
Diamond Member
The wealth gap which shrank steadily for about 50 years following the Great Depression began to widen in the late 70s because of events and actions taken by both major political parties. (See Post #210 above)
From ending Bretton Woods to the repeal of Glass-Steagall, Republicans AND Democrats served the interests of those who funded their campaigns, and those events and actions caused the wealth gap to widen today to approximately where it was in 1929.
The richest 10,000 Americans you're hoping for table scraps from payed just over 20% of their income in taxes. Please be sure to bow respectfully as you mail in your IRS donation on their behalf.
The corruption level in government and big business has only increased as the wealth gap has widened and that is probably cause and corollary. I agree with you about McCain Feingold, but it was probably delusional to expect "reform" from legislation co-sponsored by a member of the "Keating Five."
Finally the growth of the financial sector has re-introduced the "dark pools" of capital and added High Frequency Trading to Wall Street's systemic fraud:
"Last weekend, The Wall Street Journal highlighted new academic research showing that investors may be trading on insider information after companies approach hedge funds for loans.
"Researchers found that on average, in the five days before companies announce a loan from a hedge fund, the volume of short sales increases by 75 percent as compared with the 60 days before a deal is announced.
"There was no comparable uptick in betting against companies that borrowed money from commercial banks instead.
"With short selling, hedge funds and other investors make money by wagering that a stock's price will fall.
"Borrowing from hedge funds rather than commercial banks can be seen as a sign of distress, as hedge funds tend to charge higher interest rates."
In the spirit of taxing what we want less of, how about taxing corruption into extinction?
Eye on the Bailout
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Yes that's true. But how much does it have to do with the widening gap between rich and poor? Are more people being born in shittier places? Are more kids being born to shitty parents?
That's true of a lot of people that aren't wealthy. For some enough is enough. It isn't that they wouldn't like more money. It's that apparently they are comfortable enough to not pursue more. You must have employees or at least co-workers that make less than you. What is holding them back from attaining the wealth you have? Among my co-workers I can tell you what it is; apathy. Some speak of wealth like attaining it for themselves simply isn't possible. The only walls that I see in the way are the excuses people make. None of us make more than $15.00/hr. Do any of us have a good excuse to blame on someone else that we aren't wealthier? No. If you asked that question of people the only barriers you will see are the one's they build themselves.
And why didn't other people do that? Was it impossible for them to go to grad school to learn more? "Be the change you want to see in your life." I don't know who said that, but that's what you did. I'm sorry man but you are the proof that I'm right about this. You wanted change and you made it happen. When everyone else says they've tried and still can't make it maybe I'll believe in this invisible hand schtick holding people down. But out of most people here I'm not hearing even that. All I'm hearing is excuses.
Big Fitz
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Funny. Just released information from the IRS and GBO confirm the top 1% pay 40% of all income taxes. The top 10% pay 60% of the taxes.
I suppose a thank you is in order?
Fine. All we have to do is prove corruption, and I'm fine with having extremely severe punishments.
Short selling is a natural part of the market. Anyone who's played the game Railroad Tycoon knows the risk of doing that with Guilded age rules in place. But I am for in regulating the currently wide open derivative markets. There needs to be guardrails on wall street in regards to this.
Does that mean that the rich own more records while the poor own fewer records?
Trajan
conscientia mille testes
my god the humanity.
"what the traffic will bare"? ever hear of that term?
While that has a twisted logic lets see him do that with government regulation etc.....
georgephillip
Diamond Member
"Who are the top 0,01%? They are the top 10,000 income earners in the United States of America. If you THINK you are in the top 0.01%, you are not. People in the top 10,000 know only KNOW they are in the top 0.01% but they know where they rank as well.
"The median ANNUAL income of a person in the top 0.01% is $50,000,0000. They have $350,000,000 in assets and, since 1978, that is an increase of 550% - how have you done the past 30 years?"
Like Warren Buffett many of these elites pay taxes on capital gains and not on income.
BTW, the REALLY richest Americans (all 400 of them) have an average annual income about equal to the 0.01%ers' asset holdings.
Maybe we should open the next front in the class war at the top quintile of the richest 1%?
America is 234
"The median ANNUAL income of a person in the top 0.01% is $50,000,0000. They have $350,000,000 in assets and, since 1978, that is an increase of 550% - how have you done the past 30 years?"
Like Warren Buffett many of these elites pay taxes on capital gains and not on income.
BTW, the REALLY richest Americans (all 400 of them) have an average annual income about equal to the 0.01%ers' asset holdings.
Maybe we should open the next front in the class war at the top quintile of the richest 1%?
America is 234
And the young have no records at all, they just have data files...
Why?
georgephillip
Diamond Member
Is insider trader an acceptable part of the game?
How about High Frequency Trading?
About 1500 bankers went to prison for control fraud in the aftermath of the Savings and Loan scandal. There have been Zero bankers so far who have enjoyed the same fate from a crime that is orders of magnitude larger than the S&L.
Who should apologize for that?
Big Fitz
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No, it's a crime and those who do it should be severely punished. This is done by unscrupulous people regardless of wealth.
That is a new tool that needs to have controls put in to make it managable. the Kilo-drop that occurred earlier this year is a good example of why you have to have safeguards added. Illegal? Criminal? no. It's a tool.
Maybe you should ask the regulators in the government tasked with doing the job of regulating the market. If you're not going to enforce the laws, and then nobody obeys them, who's fault is that? If there aren't sane regulations on these markets, why not? What is being done to correct this in a way that is rational and reasoned.
Who's fault is it first? Who's responsible for oversight? When there are no laws regarding it, there is no crime unfortunately. Morality was divorced from law during the Progressive Clarence Darrow's era.
rightwinger
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Maybe we should stop having them pay taxes at the same rate as someone who makes $250K
Big Fitz
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I didn't realize you were in favor of a flat tax.
Ohhh wait... you're talking about stealing everything from them. yeah, that's even MORE fair! How about after we rob em blind we shoot em too so they won't tell on us?
rightwinger
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No
I'm talking about differentiating between the super rich and the upper middle class. The Republicans succeeded in lumping those who make $250 K per year with those who make $250 million a year. That way, they protect the super wealthy from tax increases.
Time to go back to multiple indexed tax brackets that keep the wealthy from hiding
You lefties really miss the big picture. Have you never stopped to ask yourself why you argue so hard to give more money to a body that spends so inefficiently?
rightwinger
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Oh I see what you are talking about...
Instead we should just widen the gap between the working class and the super wealthy.
Based on your response below, clearly you don't.
So the best way to keep the gap from widening is tax the rich more? What does how much people are taxed have to do with the widening gap? Absolutely NOTHING. You couldn't close the gap by having the poor not pay taxes at all, so you think what is best for society is to take more money from the rich?
rightwinger
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It all comes down to a complex economic principle called "trickle down" and "Supply side" that we were sold on 30 years ago. We restructured our tax structure to encourage more investment in our economy and a trickle down of wealth
Never happened.........I WANT MY MONEY BACK
georgephillip
Diamond Member
And if the Federal Reserve is the central hub of insider trading on Wall Street...?
"On August 19, just nine days after the U.S. central bank surprised financial markets by deciding to buy more bonds to support a flagging economy, former Fed governor Larry Meyer sent a note to clients of his consulting firm with a breakdown of the policy-setting meeting.
The minutes from that same gathering of the powerful Federal Open Market Committee, or FOMC, are made available to the public -- but only after a three-week lag.
"So Meyer's clients were provided with a glimpse into what the Fed was thinking well ahead of other investors.
"His note cited the views of 'most members' and 'many members' as he detailed increasingly sharp divisions among the officials who determine the nation's monetary policy.
"The inside scoop, which explained how rising mortgage prepayments had prompted renewed central bank action, was simply too detailed to have come from anywhere but the Fed."
The Ties That Bind
Your point about regulators is another good one.
According to William Black, currently Associate Professor of Economics at the U of Missouri-Kansas City and author of The Best Way to Rob a Bank is to Own One, after 911 many FBI agents searching for evidence of "control fraud" on Wall Street were reassigned to Homeland Security and never replaced.
Even so, scores of regulators and others knew a subprime fiasco was building:
"The FBI knew ('In September 2004, the FBI began publicly warning that there was an "epidemic" of mortgage fraud, and it predicted that it would produce an economic crisis, if it were not dealt with.')
"The FDIC knew. ( In testimony before the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission, FDIC chairman Sheila Bair confirmed that she not only warned the Fed of what was going on in 2001, but cited particular regulations (HOEPA) under which the Fed could stop the 'unfair, abusive and deceptive practices' by the banks.)
"Also Fitch ratings knew, and even Alan Greenspan's good friend and former Fed governor Ed Gramlich knew."
Finally I don't think it would have made a dimes worth of difference if Al Gore had been in the White House.
Wall Street owns Republicans AND Democrats from Maine to Maui.
The Subprime Conspiracy
georgephillip
Diamond Member
Isolating the richest of the rich from those earning $250,000 a year makes even more sense if our tax code can be shown to be complicit in the recent Wall Street crime wave.
"Fraudulent lenders produce exceptional short-term ‘profits’ through a four-part strategy: extreme growth (Ponzi), lending to uncreditworthy borrowers, extreme leverage, and minimal loss reserves.
"These exceptional ‘profits’ defeat regulatory restrictions and turn private market discipline perverse. The profits also allow the CEO to convert firm assets for personal benefit through seemingly normal compensation mechanisms.
"The short-term profits cause stock options to appreciate.
"Fraudulent CEOs following this strategy are guaranteed extraordinary income while minimizing risks of detection and prosecution."
"(William K. Black, "Epidemics of'Control Fraud' Lead to Recurrent, Intensifying Bubbles andCrises", University of Missouri at Kansas City - School of Law)"
The "exceptional short-term profits" resulting in multi-million dollar bonuses and the deceptive rules of taxation could never has metastasized to their current dimensions without the complete corruption of both major political parties by Wall Street.
Along with the Fed and Treasury.
The Subprime Conspiracy
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