Brain357
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It depends on the discussion. He is claiming they make the owner safe. Given the most likely person to be shot by that gun is the owner, that claim is not true.
CDC: Accidental car deaths 2013...35,369. Accidental gun deaths 2013...505.
- Thread starter 2aguy
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It depends on the discussion. He is claiming they make the owner safe. Given the most likely person to be shot by that gun is the owner, that claim is not true.
Brain357
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Crime rates have been going down for 30 years. That has nothing to do with concealed carry.
actual studies on the subject say you are wrong....
Sure they do.
Missourian
Diamond Member
I don't know how many times I've said it, but I'll link to it here.
Mass shooting in Chicago - 13 shot US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
This is from January 2013...quoted in its entirety...
Missourian said:
As a good faith gesture, I will answer this third off topic reply.
In return, please take a stab at my OP instead of repeatedly attempting to derail my thread.
I don't want to point a gun at anyone, ever, as long as I live.
I may someday be FORCED to do so to defend myself, my loved ones or even a complete stranger like you from death or grievous injury.
And in my minds eye, even under those circumstances, I do not relish the thought of being responsible for the death of another human being, even if it was self defense or the protection of an innocent person.
That's still someones child, and I will be the instrument that inflicts that pain on their innocent family and friends.
I've given this scenario much deliberation...I carry a firearm...and before that I was a soldier during the Cold-War who could have been called upon to kill to defend my country.
FTR I will die a happy man if I am never ever put in a position that I am forced to use a firearm against another human being.
So why do oppose a ban on Semi-automatic rifles?
Because I understand the axiom "Power Corrupts".
As the government becomes more and more powerful and centralized, the more corrupt it becomes.
Do I think it is a certainty that our government will become oppressive?
Not at all.
But I do see the POSSIBILITY that it could, someday in the future.
And to forestall that possibility, the founders gave us an uninfringable amendment, one that keeps, if not an equal power, a power that is formidable, to keep that oppressive nature of government in check...and every attempt to chip away that right lessens it's effectiveness...maybe someday to the point that a future corrupt government believes it is a manageable power.
The left mocks your desire to protect.... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
As a good faith gesture, I will answer this third off topic reply.
In return, please take a stab at my OP instead of repeatedly attempting to derail my thread.
I don't want to point a gun at anyone, ever, as long as I live.
I may someday be FORCED to do so to defend myself, my loved ones or even a complete stranger like you from death or grievous injury.
And in my minds eye, even under those circumstances, I do not relish the thought of being responsible for the death of another human being, even if it was self defense or the protection of an innocent person.
That's still someones child, and I will be the instrument that inflicts that pain on their innocent family and friends.
I've given this scenario much deliberation...I carry a firearm...and before that I was a soldier during the Cold-War who could have been called upon to kill to defend my country.
FTR I will die a happy man if I am never ever put in a position that I am forced to use a firearm against another human being.
So why do oppose a ban on Semi-automatic rifles?
Because I understand the axiom "Power Corrupts".
As the government becomes more and more powerful and centralized, the more corrupt it becomes.
Do I think it is a certainty that our government will become oppressive?
Not at all.
But I do see the POSSIBILITY that it could, someday in the future.
And to forestall that possibility, the founders gave us an uninfringable amendment, one that keeps, if not an equal power, a power that is formidable, to keep that oppressive nature of government in check...and every attempt to chip away that right lessens it's effectiveness...maybe someday to the point that a future corrupt government believes it is a manageable power.
The left mocks your desire to protect.... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Brain357
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Chicago and wisconsin got concealed carry. Violent crime is up.
Missourian
Diamond Member
Safe from others.
If they didn't own a gun, would that keep them safe from themselves? No.
Now, there is a discussion to be had when it comes to murder suicide. But those murders are already accounted for in the 8,000 criminal homicides.
When it comes to straight suicide, no legislation or gun control can keep a person protected from themselves.
It's sad, but beyond the scope of our discussion, as the remedy gun control offers can't reduce the ability of persons to end their own life.
2aguy
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as is the Japanese way of jumping in front of a train a millisecond after you leave the platform you are dead...I have seen a person get hit by a train.....there is no coming back.....and it leaves a much bigger mess....more body parts all over the place.....
2aguy
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My mother worked for a telemarketing company in the 90s....one of the girls she knew was dumped by her boyfriend....she decided to kill herself...she drove to an abandoned parking lot, took a can of gas and emptied it over herself and the interior of her car and lit a match......there was no going back after the match was struck....she wrote to her family...and also sent a note to her co workers....she said she used fire because she did not want to be stopped, and she didn't want to chicken out....
Brain357
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Yes you will wait till crime is down then claim victory. Oh wait you did that for Chicago already. Oops. Back to waiting now right?
2aguy
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Hmmm...funny....but there are now over 11.1 million concealed carry people in the United States....and gun murder is going down...not up...across the country.....so yeah....seems like concealed carry is part of the solution.....not part of the problem.....and cherry picking two new additions.....typical lefty tactic..........
Brain357
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They do not make the owner safer. The most likely person by far to be shot by that gun is the owner either accidently or intentionally.
Brain357
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It is neither. Concealed carry does not effect crime.
rightwinger
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You think Americans are going to start jumping in front of trains?
That is what? Like number 40 on the US suicide list?
rightwinger
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US also watches more Netflix
That may be adding to the drop in the murder rate
Your cause and effect is lacking
Missourian
Diamond Member
A woman has twins, and gives them up for adoption. One of them goes to a family in Egypt and is named 'Amal.' The other goes to a family in Spain, they name him Juan'. Years later; Juan sends a picture of himself to his mum. Upon receiving the picture, she tells her husband that she wished she also had a picture of Amal. Her husband responds, ''But they are twins. If you've seen Juan, you've seen Amal.''
2aguy
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Did you do a study? No. you just decided you don't think concealed carry effects crime........that is very scientific of you......I have listed many studies on the topic that say it does...and the ones who say it doesn't....the ones who say concealed carry effects the crime rate are more.....the others...less....
Brain357
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If you are going to claim they make the owner safer then yes suicide does count. The most likely use of that gun is suicide, how is that making the owner safer?
Brain357
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Do we need a study when we have the real world? Chicago and Wisconsin got concealed carry. Violent crime is up in both. No study needed.
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