Cartel - The Movie - What's wrong with public education

[antagon]

Right...It's mostly the fault of the fundies.

GAFB.

It's mostly the fault of parents and Federalization.

It's not a coincidence that the Federalization of education and the welfarization of many families has resulted in kids being set adrift in a system which serves the bureaucrats instead of providing an education.

i say that without federal standards for education, that the state of it, a national issue, would fall to incongruity and disrepair. interstate transferability, not to mention the international brand of an american-educated individual, would be compromised. funding would be imperiled as some states couldnt pull it off alone.

without welfare, real poverty would impact the classroom. attendance, altogether, would be reduced. in all likelihood, in your conservative, garbage fantasyland, child labor would remain more universal than child education, upheld by a national mandate to attend school sufficient to maintain our 99% literacy.

every last country with a top 20 literacy rank has a nationally regulated education. every last on has a social safety net, or welfare, system emplaced.

do you really mean that you would devolve education to states and abandon welfare to improve education? justify your right wing tip conservative bullshit. somehow.. i'd like to see.

 

[Oddball]

99% literacy?!?!?...You can't be serious!!

Devolve education to the states and junk the socialistic welfare state and you'd actually increase the funds available to be put into eduction. After all, the money for those misguided and utterly failed programs didn't come from the Tooth Fairy.

We already know what's a failure, and it isn't too little bureaucratic interference.

 

[antagon]

yes, dude, 99. have you been harping on the 1%?.

education does not need more funds.

nuance in bureaucracy is not at issue. it's you birdbrained idea that we could run the country without welfare or national ed standards at all. clearly you are a victim of lacking public ed, or a fool on a hill not dealing with the concerns of a real nation enough to witness it first-hand.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Right...It's mostly the fault of the fundies.

GAFB.

It's mostly the fault of parents and Federalization.

It's not a coincidence that the Federalization of education and the welfarization of many families has resulted in kids being set adrift in a system which serves the bureaucrats instead of providing an education.

i say that without federal standards for education, that the state of it, a national issue, would fall to incongruity and disrepair. interstate transferability, not to mention the international brand of an american-educated individual, would be compromised. funding would be imperiled as some states couldnt pull it off alone.

without welfare, real poverty would impact the classroom. attendance, altogether, would be reduced. in all likelihood, in your conservative, garbage fantasyland, child labor would remain more universal than child education, upheld by a national mandate to attend school sufficient to maintain our 99% literacy.

every last country with a top 20 literacy rank has a nationally regulated education. every last on has a social safety net, or welfare, system emplaced.

do you really mean that you would devolve education to states and abandon welfare to improve education? justify your right wing tip conservative bullshit. somehow.. i'd like to see.

Interesting that we had no federal education standards in America during its rise to becoming the Worlds #1 Economic and military power.

 

[boedicca]

yes, dude, 99. have you been harping on the 1%?.

education does not need more funds.

nuance in bureaucracy is not at issue. it's you birdbrained idea that we could run the country without welfare or national ed standards at all. clearly you are a victim of lacking public ed, or a fool on a hill not dealing with the concerns of a real nation enough to witness it first-hand.

All federalization has accomplished is a dumbing down of standards and the substitution of social promotion for actual accomplishments.

Just saying.

 

[Oddball]

yes, dude, 99. have you been harping on the 1%?.

education does not need more funds.

nuance in bureaucracy is not at issue. it's you birdbrained idea that we could run the country without welfare or national ed standards at all. clearly you are a victim of lacking public ed, or a fool on a hill not dealing with the concerns of a real nation enough to witness it first-hand.

The functional illiteracy rate is way above 1%, Bubba.

Next time you go to the grocery store, try handing the cashier $5.06 for something that costs $4.81 and watch their circuits fry....That's some first-hand experience, birdbrain.

Since the feds have intervened in education, the results and accountability have gone down, while costs have skyrocketed...Just like with any other monopoly.

 

[boedicca]

I had to buy some gasoline while driving through East Palo Alto on Thursday on my way to a meeting. The Shell station was very shabby, with the card readers on the pumps disabled. The clerk asked for my credit card; I gave her $20 in cash instead. The pump stopped at $19.91, which I found rather amusing and sleazy.

I went up to the the window to ask for my change. The clerk was surprised and sheepish. I concluded that she's been cheating most customers in this nickel and dime way for quite awhile - and given the neighborhood, most are too illiterate to notice.

 

[Luissa]

Jillian Wrote:

we're 'failing' because 70% of this country is telling their kids that there is no such thing as evolution.

Yawn. Do you honestly think that more parents are teaching their children that NOW, then there were back when American education was working? Give me a break.

Trust me, Jillian, I'm working my ass off in an inner-city school. These kids aren't failing because their parents aren't teaching them about evolution. They're failing (in part) because their parents aren't teaching them anything except how to be a victim.

i'd add to that that your system is satisfied with passing the blame to parents.

The problem is, we are not blaming the parents.

 

[boedicca]

The problem (in addition to parents who do not instill a value for education in their kids) is this: schools are not teaching rigorous academic subjects and holding kids to a standard of achievement.

PJMedia has a good article on a failed attempt by Stanford Educrats to run a charter school in East Palo Alto:

In March, Stanford New Schools (aka East Palo Alto Academy) — a charter high school started in 2001 and elementary grades added in 2006 – made California’s list of schools in the lowest-achieving five percent in the state.

This month, the Ravenswood school board denied a new five-year charter. The elementary school — now with K-4 and eighth grade — will close in June. Another year or two wouldn’t be enough to improve poor student performance and weak behavior management, Superintendent Maria De La Vega told the board.

The high school will get two years to find a new sponsor: the local high school district has said “no,” but there are other options.

How did it happen? Stanford New Schools, run by the university’s school of education, seems to stress social and emotional support over academics.

(snip)

EPA Academy enrolls very disadvantaged students: Most are the children of poor and poorly educated Spanish-speaking immigrant families; the rest are black or Pacific Islanders. Their English skills are poor. Those who come in ninth grade are years behind in reading and math.

In comments on the news stories that have run, I see a common refrain: It’s impossible to teach these kids. Not even Stanford can do it.

But other schools with demographically identical students are doing much better. The top-scoring school in the district is East Palo Alto Charter School (EPAC), a K-8 run by Aspire Public Schools, Stanford’s original partner. An all-minority school, EPAC outperforms the state average.

Rather than send EPAC graduates to Stanford’s high school, Aspire started its own high school, Phoenix, which outperforms the state average for all high schools. All students in the first 12th grade class have applied to four-year colleges.

Aspire co-founded East Palo Alto Academy High with Stanford, but bowed out five years ago. There was a culture clash, Aspire’s founder, Don Shalvey told the New York Times. Aspire focused “primarily and almost exclusively on academics,” while Stanford focused on academics and students’ emotional and social lives, he said.

Pajamas Media A Model School Flops

 

[antagon]

It's mostly the fault of parents and Federalization.

It's not a coincidence that the Federalization of education and the welfarization of many families has resulted in kids being set adrift in a system which serves the bureaucrats instead of providing an education.

i say that without federal standards for education, that the state of it, a national issue, would fall to incongruity and disrepair. interstate transferability, not to mention the international brand of an american-educated individual, would be compromised. funding would be imperiled as some states couldnt pull it off alone.

without welfare, real poverty would impact the classroom. attendance, altogether, would be reduced. in all likelihood, in your conservative, garbage fantasyland, child labor would remain more universal than child education, upheld by a national mandate to attend school sufficient to maintain our 99% literacy.

every last country with a top 20 literacy rank has a nationally regulated education. every last on has a social safety net, or welfare, system emplaced.

do you really mean that you would devolve education to states and abandon welfare to improve education? justify your right wing tip conservative bullshit. somehow.. i'd like to see.

Interesting that we had no federal education standards in America during its rise to becoming the Worlds #1 Economic and military power.

at that time, idiot, education was not the factor it is now. next.

 

[California Girl]

read deeper, CG. that is a statement about some folks satisfaction with ignorance, and an increasingly anti-, nay, counter-intellectual movement on the right side of america. i'd couple that with the deeply entrenched relegation to failure mentality from those on the left.

in the end, i dont think 70% of people do anything like she says. i feel most people sabotage their kid's education by what they don't do/say/believe/teach versus what they do.

I know quite a few who home school their kids. And those kids beat the crap out of public school educated children in tests. They are also very social, bright, polite kids who seem to enjoy learning. These kids don't have cell phones or tv. If I had kids, that's exactly how I'd raise them.

Liberals seem to think that everyone who home schools or is conservative teaches their kids a stilted view of the world. That simply is not the case.

 

[chanel]

To be honest - if NJ brought back expulsion for convicted criminals and incorrigibles, I imagine at least 10-20% of the education budget could be cut. But instead we provide psychiatrists, social workers, drug and alcohol counselors, behavior modification specialists, tutors, alternative programs, etc.... All of which are well-meaning, but not very effective.

I was watching Celebrity Rehab yesterday and Dr. Drew said you cannot provide treatment for anyone who doesn't want it. The same goes for teaching - at least at the high school level. You can lead a horse to water...

 

[antagon]

yes, dude, 99. have you been harping on the 1%?.

education does not need more funds.

nuance in bureaucracy is not at issue. it's you birdbrained idea that we could run the country without welfare or national ed standards at all. clearly you are a victim of lacking public ed, or a fool on a hill not dealing with the concerns of a real nation enough to witness it first-hand.

The functional illiteracy rate is way above 1%, Bubba.

Next time you go to the grocery store, try handing the cashier $5.06 for something that costs $4.81 and watch their circuits fry....That's some first-hand experience, birdbrain.

Since the feds have intervened in education, the results and accountability have gone down, while costs have skyrocketed...Just like with any other monopoly.

your theory is hokus pokus. you, bo, crufrank, and any such partisan/conservative hackjobs attribute your talking-points to every argument presented you.

the fundamental problem which american public schools have, which privates don't, and which relates directly to reading, is the basal process. most private schools use a phonics system, the DOE promotes a phonics system, but idiots in your enlightened state education systems consistently back basal memorization. i feel that the feds should force the hand on this topic through funding coercion, rather than half-steppin like the no child left approach.

you feel there are merits in devolving schools further to states which aim to fill their prisons with illiterate americans of their own making -- to extort fed funds. fail in meeting fed standards -- to extort fed funds. all of the accusations you attribute to federal influence seem to indicate state welfare, in fact. these lil governments have a tight grip on the fed's pubes -- education being, perhaps, the tightest clutch.

i welcome you to substantiate your shit with something more than grocery-store anecdotes.

ultimately, a culture of stupidity trumps all of these administrative/tactical factors; however, at no level has education aimed to affect cultural influence with the 8 hours waking time they have american youth.

 

[antagon]

read deeper, CG. that is a statement about some folks satisfaction with ignorance, and an increasingly anti-, nay, counter-intellectual movement on the right side of america. i'd couple that with the deeply entrenched relegation to failure mentality from those on the left.

in the end, i dont think 70% of people do anything like she says. i feel most people sabotage their kid's education by what they don't do/say/believe/teach versus what they do.

I know quite a few who home school their kids. And those kids beat the crap out of public school educated children in tests. They are also very social, bright, polite kids who seem to enjoy learning. These kids don't have cell phones or tv. If I had kids, that's exactly how I'd raise them.

Liberals seem to think that everyone who home schools or is conservative teaches their kids a stilted view of the world. That simply is not the case.

any type of education above/beyond or in lieu of our public education system seems to work better than our public schools.

another one with the conservative/liberal complex, through which they think everything fits in these baskets.

 

[antagon]

yes, dude, 99. have you been harping on the 1%?.

education does not need more funds.

nuance in bureaucracy is not at issue. it's you birdbrained idea that we could run the country without welfare or national ed standards at all. clearly you are a victim of lacking public ed, or a fool on a hill not dealing with the concerns of a real nation enough to witness it first-hand.

All federalization has accomplished is a dumbing down of standards and the substitution of social promotion for actual accomplishments.

Just saying.

how about just proving, bo. too much conservative hot-air for my taste.

 

[editec]

The Cartel Movie - A Film by Bob Bowdon - The Film


Wow. Money is not the answer. Teachers are not the problem. Tenure may be necessary for those that speak out. Who woulda thunk?

Very, very interesting.

What's wrong with American education is what's wrong with America itself.

It is preposterous to expect an instituion in a sick society not to be sick as the society from which it draws its sick clients.

The problems in education are not about unions, nor about tenure.

The root source of the problem is about the state of zietgiest of the students walking into the school every day.

Their families are sick and scared, and they are, too.

 

[chanel]

Partially. I do believe that schools are a microcosm of the larger community. I also believe that for the most part, the public gets the type of education it wants - at least in NJ, where the public gets to vote on the school board/budget every year. I'm not sure how it works in other states, but it seems ludicrous to me that we do not vote on any other budget.

But this movie should expose a lot of the dirty little secrets that most people don't know about. The producer will be doing a Q and A after the show. Any questions anyone would like me to ask?

 

[antagon]

Partially. I do believe that schools are a microcosm of the larger community. I also believe that for the most part, the public gets the type of education it wants - at least in NJ, where the public gets to vote on the school board/budget every year. I'm not sure how it works in other states, but it seems ludicrous to me that we do not vote on any other budget.

But this movie should expose a lot of the dirty little secrets that most people don't know about. The producer will be doing a Q and A after the show. Any questions anyone would like me to ask?

take into account what you see in the film, naturally, but i wonder if the dirty little secrets it exposes are really that fundamental to the lackluster results which the system produces. i would ask, "is that really the issue with out education system?"

maybe the movie will put forth some valid cause-effect relationships, rather than highlighting side issues.

 

[antagon]

Jillian Wrote:


Yawn. Do you honestly think that more parents are teaching their children that NOW, then there were back when American education was working? Give me a break.

Trust me, Jillian, I'm working my ass off in an inner-city school. These kids aren't failing because their parents aren't teaching them about evolution. They're failing (in part) because their parents aren't teaching them anything except how to be a victim.

i'd add to that that your system is satisfied with passing the blame to parents.

The problem is, we are not blaming the parents.

i'd accept that it's subjective. in that light, it's based on how you define a cop-out and the extent you accept excuses from an organization emplaced to produce results.

this is the major issue, the parenting and the culture. when will the ed system stop with cop-out and begin to accept a responsibility for the cultural education which is required to get positive results? everybody knows that's what it takes. blaming parents is not acceptable to me. the extent that others accept it, constitutes the shelter of pardon under which the ed system seeks comfort when they fail americans and america.

 

[chanel]

Just got back from the movie. Everyone should see it if it comes to your town or is shown on T.V. (which will probably never happen). I learned a lot.

a. The word "voucher" has been demonized to mean "Republican elitist conspiracy to steal dollars from public ed - ie. racist". However, there are many, many black leaders that are pushing for this. They would like people to now use the term "scholarships". Words matter.

b. Tenure protects bad teachers however the documentary notes that these are the minority. Education expenses of $400K should be spent IN THE CLASSROOM! Teachers do not make too much money.

c. My school is doing a damn good job compared to the stats. I was shocked.

The most moving part was the tears of parents whose children were selected by lottery to attend a charter school. And of course, the children who were not.

I believe this will get national attention. As it should...