Capitalism

[georgephillip]

Must always consider the source. The KFF source appears to be very "left" in it's content. Therefore a reader should be concerned of opinions based on bias and that bias can be read in the article due to lack of details or citation.

Can you point to any examples of KFF's "left" bias?
Why would you think leftist economists are less reliable than their conservative cousins?

 

[dblack]

Can you point to any examples of KFF's "left" bias?
Why would you think leftist economists are less reliable than their conservative cousins?

Partially because socialism isn't about understanding economics. Their only interest in economics is justifying state control.

 

[georgephillip]

This statement is not cited. Is this an opinion of the source/author? If so the logical reader would say this is a very broad brush and is only plausible.

This is the complete statement you snipped.
Rational readers would decide if it's plausible or likely:

Medical Debt Puts Housing Out of Reach for Millions of Consumers | Consumers for Quality Care

"Studies have shown that individuals faced with housing instability have an increased likelihood of experiencing poor health.

"According to Brian Klausner, a Raleigh, North Carolina-based physician, 'there are thousands of sick Americans who are likely homeless — and sick — because of medical debt.'"

 

[LibertyKid]

Can you point to any examples of KFF's "left" bias?

KFF Health News

kffhealthnews.org

Why would you think leftist economists are less reliable than their conservative cousins?

Here lies the issue. Economists, shouldn't have political biases. Economists who pursue to understand, instruct, or test either theoretical or empirical models should do so purely on statistical data based on upon premise. Their opinion or political opinion should never be able to be read into anything that is published. Period.

 

[georgephillip]

Partially because socialism isn't about understanding economics. Their only interest in economics is justifying state control.

Your definition of socialism is incomplete.

RD Wolff is among the leading Marxist economists alive today.

His definition of socialism extends the principle of democracy to the workplace, where most adults spend a majority of their waking hours:

https://www.democracyatwork.info/about_co_ops

"A co-op is a business that is owned and self-managed by its members with the principle of 'one person, one vote.'

"There is no boss, CEO, or Board of Directors who can make decisions by themselves and for their own personal benefit.

"Co-ops are people-centered, and are driven to create sustainable enterprises and long-term stability for all involved in them.

"The values that form the base of any cooperative are self-help, self-responsibility, democracy, equality, equity, and solidarity.

"The management structures and day-to-day operations are designed according to the needs and desires of the co-op members and can vary greatly."

 

[Soupnazi630]

Capitalism is a direct cause of homelessness; addiction and mental illness are often consequences of homelessness.

Capitalism treats basic needs like housing as a commodity to be sold for profit which prioritizes profit over human needs

The Indisputable Causality: Homelessness as a Byproduct of Capitalism and the Call for Revolutionary Change

"The evidence is overwhelming. Capitalism's intrinsic drive for accumulation leads to the concentration of wealth in the hands of the few, while the many are left to compete for the crumbs.

"This economic disparity creates a chasm where the bottom rung of the socioeconomic ladder is mired in poverty, unable to afford basic necessities.

"The unemployment, underemployment, and precarious employment that plague capitalist societies disproportionately affect those who find themselves homeless, further entrenching them in a cycle of destitution."

No it is not homelessness existed llong before capitalism.
Capitalism trets human labor as ghe rightful property of the people performing the labor which is the only morally correct position. Whether you need it or not you have no right to another persons work,

The evidence is non existence. Your claim of capitalism causing wealth to accumulate is absolutely dependant on a zero sum game view of wealth which is false.

Wealthy people create and earn their wealth they are not taking a bigger piece of the pie

 

[dblack]

Your definition of socialism is incomplete.

I have no special definition of socialism. Are you saying that the dictionary definition of socialism is incomplete?

His definition of socialism extends the principle of democracy to the workplace ...

Yikes. No, thanks. Democracy is fine for choosing government reps. It's a horrible way to make economic decisions.

 

[M14 Shooter]

So does one think capitalism is best for the human race?

Of all the economic systems, capitalism most closely resembles human nature -- people who are free to do so will do what they believe is in their best interests.
Other systems work against this, and thus, not best.

 

[pknopp]

With stupid comments like that, could someone stop the planet please, I want to get off.

Where in capitalism do we find the part where taxpayers have to bail out failed businesses?

 

[pknopp]

Same with socialism. Or democracy. Or justice. Or freedom. Or pretty much any abstract principle. Why do socialists keep saying this? They act like it proves a point or something.

It does.....see, I don't disagree with the rest of your post.


Understand?

 

[dblack]

It does....

Nope. It doesn't even make a coherent point, much less prove it.

 

[Ringo]

Jack London "The Iron heel" capter 8. Chapters 9-16 also very educational

The Iron Heel: Chapter 8: The Machine Breakers

 

[pknopp]

With stupid comments like that, could someone stop the planet please, I want to get off.

I'll try again since I never can seem to get anyone to answer this question when they pretend our economic system is Capitalism.

Where I Capitalism do we find the part where taxpayers are on the hook for bailing out failing businesses?

 

[Captain Caveman]

I'll try again since I never can seem to get anyone to answer this question when they pretend our economic system is Capitalism.

Where I Capitalism do we find the part where taxpayers are on the hook for bailing out failing businesses?

Obviously you didn't have money in the bank and let them collapse, no knowledge of economics there !!!!!! How you think a nation would survive without bailing the banks out in the economic collapse that you spanners created, is anyone's guess.
Portugal is probably one of the very very few nations that have socialism. What you wrote there, could you please explain Portugal's Economic Adjustment Programme

 

[georgephillip]

No it is not homelessness existed llong before capitalism.
Capitalism trets human labor as ghe rightful property of the people performing the labor which is the only morally correct position. Whether you need it or not you have no right to another persons work

Capitalism exploits human labor as a commodity without any significant difference from any other good or service; workers produce value but capitalists control how much of it is returned to them in wages. That lack of democracy should be enough to concern anyone committed to personal liberty.

 

[georgephillip]

The evidence is non existence. Your claim of capitalism causing wealth to accumulate is absolutely dependant on a zero sum game view of wealth which is false.

Capital accumulation is the fundamental part of a capitalist economy; it is the dynamic that motivates the pursuit of profit at the expense of the workers who produce the good or service:

Monthly Review | Grand Theft Capital: The Increasing Exploitation and Robbery of the U.S. Working Class

"Capitalism has always been based on the expropriation of land, resources, and human lives in order to create the conditions for the exploitation of labor.

"The Industrial Revolution, as Karl Marx indicated in the nineteenth century, was made possible by means of the brutal enclosure of the commons in England together with the even more barbaric colonization abroad carried out by the European powers, encompassing 'the discovery of gold and silver in the Americas, the extirpation, enslavement, and entombment in mines of the indigenous population of those continents, the beginnings of the conquest and plunder of India, and the conversion of Africa into a preserve for the commercial hunting of blackskins.'"

 

[georgephillip]

I have no special definition of socialism. Are you saying that the dictionary definition of socialism is incomplete?


Yikes. No, thanks. Democracy is fine for choosing government reps. It's a horrible way to make economic decisions.

Marx saw socialism as a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of communism.

Socialism advocates the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Collective ownership can involve government or not.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Capital accumulation is the fundamental part of a capitalist economy; it is the dynamic that motivates the pursuit of profit at the expense of the workers who produce the good or service:

Monthly Review | Grand Theft Capital: The Increasing Exploitation and Robbery of the U.S. Working Class

"Capitalism has always been based on the expropriation of land, resources, and human lives in order to create the conditions for the exploitation of labor.

"The Industrial Revolution, as Karl Marx indicated in the nineteenth century, was made possible by means of the brutal enclosure of the commons in England together with the even more barbaric colonization abroad carried out by the European powers, encompassing 'the discovery of gold and silver in the Americas, the extirpation, enslavement, and entombment in mines of the indigenous population of those continents, the beginnings of the conquest and plunder of India, and the conversion of Africa into a preserve for the commercial hunting of blackskins.'"

Quoting marx is a failure and does not support your cause. He was massively stupid and did not comprehend or understand economics at even the most fundamental level.

First of all exploitation is normal and necessary in any human interaction. What makes capitalism superior and more effecient is that exploitation is voluntary. Under collectivist systems there is still massive exploitation of the worker but it is forced and involuntary.

Collecting and accumulating wealth of any sort is normal and not a fundamental feature of capitalism it is simply a fundamental feature of humans.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Marx saw socialism as a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of communism.

Socialism advocates the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Collective ownership can involve government or not.

Wrong

Collective ownership has to involve government which in turn must be totalitarian and brutal.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Capitalism exploits human labor as a commodity without any significant difference from any other good or service; workers produce value but capitalists control how much of it is returned to them in wages. That lack of democracy should be enough to concern anyone committed to personal liberty.

Wrong

All systems ecploit human labor. Under capitalism it is volunatry and the worker has agency. In addition it is mutual. The real exploitationis the worker who is paid to do less for more personal gain

Under any collectivist system the worker is a slave to the state or to the mob

Democracy cancels and destroys personal liberty