Capitalism is...Slavery; Democracy is Not

[LordBrownTrout]

The same founders who didn't think women should vote?

Elites have feared Democracy for centuries.
That's why they invented the corporation.
That's why they enforced chattel slavery.

Take a look at all of the different problems that were wrong that we corrected as a nation. Nothing is perfect because man is imperfect. Thats why there's the need for checks and balances out the wazoo.

Where are the checks and balances on the corporation and the richest Americans it enables?

"American candidates without vast financial resources or access to such resources can generally forget about being taken seriously in money- and media-driven campaigns.

"As most Americans see it, the democratic ideal of 'one person, one vote,' is negated by the harsh realities of 'dollar democracy' and the 'golden rule' ('those who have the gold rule').

"The candidate-selection and policy making processes belong primarily to the top 10 percent of Americans that own 73.2 percent of American wealth." (in Feb. 2000)

Capitalism and Democracy Don't Mix Very Well ::: International Endowment for Democracy

Since both parties have their sugar daddies(corps), it's ultimately up to us, the consumer.

 

[georgephillip]

Government is Good - Capitalism Requires Government

The capitalists are becoming very good at capturing government:

"...(T)here is something particularly evil about U.S. 'elites' use of the term 'democratic' in connection with an increasingly universalized and worldwide capitalism. Few if any aspects of contemporary capitalism are less democratic than precisely its tendency towards globalization.

"'As Edward S. Herman notes, "the globalization of recent decades was never a democratic choice by the peoples of the world-the process has been business driven, by business strategies and tactics, for business ends."

"Tops on the list of the relevant 'business ends' is the weakening of popular sovereignty. Capital seeks through globalization to evade, subvert, and preclude popular and governmental regulation and to roll back labor power."

Capitalism and Democracy Don't Mix Very Well ::: International Endowment for Democracy

 

[daveman]

I guess you have nothing real to add to the conversation huh Dave?

I haven't read the thread, but I think I can summarize it:

Lefty: Ridiculous assertion based on stereotype, revisionist history, and emotionalism

Righty: Counter with facts and logic

Lefty: Nuh-UH!​

That about cover it?

 

[dblack]

I guess you have nothing real to add to the conversation huh Dave?

I haven't read the thread, but ...

Confirmed

 

[Truthmatters]

it pretty much proves you have nothing to offer this conversation

 

[bripat9643]

Political conservatives were useful to their monarchs in deflecting Democracy.
Possibly that's because conservatives value obedience to "legitimate" authority over freedom.
Do you believe freedom comes from obedience?

What part of "the modern definitions of the terms "conservative" and "liberal" bare no resemblance whatsoever to their 18th Century definition" didn't you understand?

 

[bripat9643]

Given the actual definitions of the words they always seem to disapear

The actual definition has nothing to do with the liberal definition.

 

[georgephillip]

Capitalism is NOT slavery. But turning the country over to corporations IS.

Star-spangled authoritarianism?

"In the minds of the American public, the dominant media, and the accommodating pundits and intellectuals, there is no sense of how authoritarianism in its soft and hard forms can manifest itself as anything other than horrible images of concentration camps, goose-stepping storm troopers, rigid modes of censorship, and chilling spectacles of extremist government repression and violence.

"That is, there is little understanding of how new modes of authoritarian ideology, policy, values, and social relations might manifest themselves in degrees and gradations so as to create the conditions for a distinctly undemocratic and increasingly cruel and oppressive social order.

"As the late Susan Sontag suggested in another context, there is a willful ignorance of how emerging registers of power and governance 'dissolve politics into pathology.'”

Zombie Politics, Democracy, and the Threat of Authoritarianism - Part I | Truthout

 

[georgephillip]

Its time the right stopped pretending that democracy is evil and capitalism is what the founders believed in.

Capitalism is the aid of democracy not the other way arround.

Democracy is what made this country great.

Its what made us the first superpower.

The world had tried caplitalism well before we came along.

It was the mix of caplitalism FETTERED by democracy that was the magic combination that created what many in the world then sought to emmulate due to its wonderful results.

It created an exsistance that allowed everyone the chance to take advantage of their own abilities and prosper through hard work.

You begin chopping it up and trying to give its protections to corporations and you end up with the same damn thing as we had in the past.

Wealthy people getting so wealthy that they can enslave the rest of us and buy our freedoms right out from underneath us.

Economic inequality will derail US democracy, probably within a generation.

There is no way a "new normal" with 9% - 10% unemployment as a structural component of the economy will survive one person one vote. Republicans AND Democrats will vanish from the page of time first,and the only question is how many other Americans they will take with them.

Whatever solutions are available they won't come from corporate "new world order" sources.

They will more likely come from the least likely places and be dismissed out of hand when they first appear.

Social Credit could be one such place:

Social Credit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

Political conservatives were useful to their monarchs in deflecting Democracy.
Possibly that's because conservatives value obedience to "legitimate" authority over freedom.
Do you believe freedom comes from obedience?

What part of "the modern definitions of the terms "conservative" and "liberal" bare no resemblance whatsoever to their 18th Century definition" didn't you understand?

The part where you offer some proof of your claims.

 

[Steelplate]

Bush pushed for it, Obama voted for it. Those are facts. I never said anything about being above anyone. I don't even know what you are talking about there. I don't have that elitist attitude that so many on capitol hill DO have.

You are wrong... look it up... Bush both pushed for it and signed into law in OCTOBER of 2008.

Don't you find it coincidental that it was ONE MONTH before the general election? A time when most elected officials are trying extremely hard to retain their jobs? A time when they are most vulnerable to influence?

Nahh... never occurred to you, I bet.

 

[georgephillip]

Confused about the fundamental conflicts regarding proper distribution of power?

"Listen, for example, to liberal economist Lester Thurow who writes that 'democracy and capitalism have very different beliefs about the proper distribution of power.

"'One believes in a completely equal distribution of political power, "one man [sic] one vote," while the other believes that it is the duty of the economically fit to drive the unfit out of business and into extinction. "Survival of the fittest" and inequalities in purchasing power are what capitalist efficiency is all about.

"'Individual profit comes first and firms become efficient to be rich. To put it in its starkest form, capitalism is perfectly compatible with slavery. Democracy is not.'"

Capitalism and Democracy Don't Mix Very Well ::: International Endowment for Democracy

Well it's a damn good thing then that America is not a Democracy but a Republic.

A Republic like Rome's, rapidly losing ground to Empire?

One person; one vote means very little when the richest 1% of voters pick both major candidates.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Bush pushed for it, Obama voted for it. Those are facts. I never said anything about being above anyone. I don't even know what you are talking about there. I don't have that elitist attitude that so many on capitol hill DO have.

You are wrong... look it up... Bush both pushed for it and signed into law in OCTOBER of 2008.

Don't you find it coincidental that it was ONE MONTH before the general election? A time when most elected officials are trying extremely hard to retain their jobs? A time when they are most vulnerable to influence?

Nahh... never occurred to you, I bet.

Yes, Obama voted for it and Bush pushed for it......for the third time:

U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

What occurred to me at that time was a congress and senate that weren't on the side of the people.


"Obama (D-IL), Yea"

 

[Steelplate]

Confused about the fundamental conflicts regarding proper distribution of power?

"Listen, for example, to liberal economist Lester Thurow who writes that 'democracy and capitalism have very different beliefs about the proper distribution of power.

"'One believes in a completely equal distribution of political power, "one man [sic] one vote," while the other believes that it is the duty of the economically fit to drive the unfit out of business and into extinction. "Survival of the fittest" and inequalities in purchasing power are what capitalist efficiency is all about.

"'Individual profit comes first and firms become efficient to be rich. To put it in its starkest form, capitalism is perfectly compatible with slavery. Democracy is not.'"

Capitalism and Democracy Don't Mix Very Well ::: International Endowment for Democracy

Well it's a damn good thing then that America is not a Democracy but a Republic.

A Republic like Rome's, rapidly losing ground to Empire?

One person; one vote means very little when the richest 1% of voters pick both major candidates.

And George hits the nail on the head.... again. It really doesn't matter which party the candidate comes from.. Dem, GOP... they are both the same.

I personally find more in common with Libertarians...except for one small area.. Social Programs. I believe in them, they don't.

If Progressives and Libertarians could find common ground on that one small issue, I would very much be a Libertarian.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Well it's a damn good thing then that America is not a Democracy but a Republic.

A Republic like Rome's, rapidly losing ground to Empire?

One person; one vote means very little when the richest 1% of voters pick both major candidates.

And George hits the nail on the head.... again. It really doesn't matter which party the candidate comes from.. Dem, GOP... they are both the same.

I personally find more in common with Libertarians...except for one small area.. Social Programs. I believe in them, they don't.

If Progressives and Libertarians could find common ground on that one small issue, I would very much be a Libertarian.

True libertarians and progressives will never find common ground. They are the antithesis of each other.

 

[Freedom1]

Slavery = Taxes

 

[Steelplate]

True libertarians and progressives will never find common ground. They are the antithesis of each other.

No... they aren't. They have more in common than you are willing to recognize. The ONLY stumbling block between them is their stance on Social Programs.

Libertarians believe that even the worst off of us are responsible for our own futures. Progressives believe that at least a good percentage of the worst off of us are victims of the unregulated advancement of Capitalism.

There is room for compromise.

 

[Mr.Nick]

I love it when retards imply capitalism is slavery.

As opposed to what? the freedom of dictated economies? In planned socioeconomic environments where an individuals destiny has already been chiseled in stone the second they were born? Where the government assigns you a job or a career based on need of government and NOT the individuals want or drive to succeed in a career of their choosing??

God forbid capitalism creates an equal economic environment for all..

A person can be a ditch digger or a brain surgeon - its their choice.... But at least they have a choice and that chose only exists for them because of that "slavery" known as capitalism.

Capitalism is not only an economic model but a socioeconomic model. Capitalism is based on competition and that competition translates over into our social environment, and that environment rewards the best of the best.

A thesis could be written on the relationship between capitalism and social environment (and I'm sure many have) many books have been..

 

[georgephillip]

Well it's a damn good thing then that America is not a Democracy but a Republic.

A Republic like Rome's, rapidly losing ground to Empire?

One person; one vote means very little when the richest 1% of voters pick both major candidates.

And George hits the nail on the head.... again. It really doesn't matter which party the candidate comes from.. Dem, GOP... they are both the same.

I personally find more in common with Libertarians...except for one small area.. Social Programs. I believe in them, they don't.

If Progressives and Libertarians could find common ground on that one small issue, I would very much be a Libertarian.

So would I, Steel.

Huey Long looked at DC in the 1930s and saw a restaurant that served only one dish with waiters labeled Republican OR Democrat, but no matter which party delivered your order, "all the grub came from Wall Street's kitchen."

I suspect Huey would know how to use the internet to FLUSH Republicans AND Democrats straight into history's sewer if he was around in 2012.

 

[dblack]

True libertarians and progressives will never find common ground. They are the antithesis of each other.

Not at all. Libertarians are the antithesis of authoritarians. They have a fair amount in common with progressives. Given that both the Democrats and Republicans are dominated by authoritarians, I believe it's imperative that progressives and libertarians work together to provide some counter-balance.

The thing is, we don't have to agree on social welfare - we can simply leave that one alone until we've solved the problems we do agree on. Ron Paul and Ralph Nader are among the growing number who are beginning to see the pressing need for this kind of alliance. Instead of nullifying our efforts by focusing on our differences, we should combine forces to make real progress on civil liberties, ending the drug war, the war on terror, corporate welfare (bailouts and corrupt tax policy), the increased surveillance state, our insane military budget - the list is longer than you'd think.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwIZ4syCFLc]YouTube - ‪Ralph Nader & Ron Paul Interviewed Together!‬‏[/ame]