Can We Please Get Rid of the Pledge?

[BettyYeti]

pppffftttt Not to worry. You don't have to if you don't want to.

Not necessarily true.

Teachers forced me back when I was in school.

I met a group of modern teachers that forced their students to stand for the pledge.

Anyone required to stand does not have Liberty. End of discussion.

Yep. We could all lay on our sides and suck out thumbs instead.

This crap is SO stupid. I have never seen anyone have a problem with it before.

If you've never seen it then you are 11-years-old.

Oh the last time was 11 years ago? Why are people ashamed of it.

This has been an issue misunderstood by false patriots for decades, child.

 

[Onyx]

I see very clearly. And absolutely I am patriotic.

Do you support the course of action taken by the state currently?

If so, then pledging allegiance to that state is unpatriotic.

Patriotism is love for country. Not for state.

 

[BettyYeti]

I denounce American when it does wrong, and praise it when it does right.

The country cannot do wrong. The state can. Even the nation.

That is patriotism. My country right or wrong is a childish evil and nothing like being patriotic. A patriot is a liberal, defending a liberal and secular constitution forming a liberal and secular nation.

False.

Those ideals degrade the homeland an humanity.

When you defend NAMBLA as long as they act within the law then you are a liberal, a patriot, an American.

False.

If you identify as an American, then you are an American. Those conditions are baseless.

An American is one who has legal citizenship but a real one is a defender of liberty. Being upset because someone did not stand for the symbol of liberty makes you a fascist, not a defender of liberty. They have no qualms about someone standing or sitting for a symbol or an anthem.

 

[Onyx]

An American is one who has legal citizenship

False.

The state does not legitimize who belongs to this land and who does not.

but a real one is a defender of liberty.

Fallacy.

No true scotsman.

 

[BettyYeti]

I see very clearly. And absolutely I am patriotic.

Do you support the course of action taken by the state currently?

If so, then pledging allegiance to that state is unpatriotic.

Patriotism is love for country. Not for state.

Semantics. Drop it.

It's childish. The government of American represents America. It's not just when you approve of those in power.

 

[BettyYeti]

An American is one who has legal citizenship

False.

The state does not legitimize who belongs to this land and who does not.

but a real one is a defender of liberty.

Fallacy.

No true scotsman.

No True Scotsman is not a fallacy in a nation founded upon Liberalism. If you ain't liberal you ain't an American, it's liberal nation. It wasn't founded for flag-waving fascists.

 

[BettyYeti]

To be a true American you must be able to defend flying the flag, saluting the flag, or burning the flag. If you can't defend all three then fuck you and get out, you don't belong here.

 

[defcon4]

Nice Orwellian speak.

I am also a fan of anarchist George Orwell.

Orwell described the totalitarian government real well. Although you are Intelligentsia, I recommend a book for you if you accept the challenge coming form somebody who doesn't support your totalitarian agenda. You will see how utopia works in real life. It was written by a Pulitzer Prize awarded author. I'll never forget what I've read.
https://www.amazon.com/Bridge-Andau-Compelling-Embattled-People/dp/0812986741/?tag=usmb-20
I expressed my opinion of Old Glory as it is what it is. I referred to it its present state. It represents the Republic, thus the Constitution on which the Republic is founded.
Are you a Libertarian by any chance? I just saw some of your posts...(I am busy with other things while I am here also...sorry)

 

[Onyx]

Semantics. Drop it.

It's childish. The government of American represents America. It's not just when you approve of those in power.

False.

The ruling class government does not represent the interests of the collective people, or even the majority of people.

"The people" is all inclusive. Not just restricted to the majority of like minded sheep, or the minority of greedy and corrupt politicians/aristocrats.

 

[StLucieBengal]

Actually, without God all you are worshipping is the state.

In rare agreement, hence my distaste for nationalism.

Then you should be equal in your distaste for progressivism and socialism as well?

One of those is not like the other...

I agree nationalism is less of a problem. But the worst of nationalism is equal to normal progressivism and socialism.

I tend to think that the extremes of "isms" have more in common with each other then they do with their own mainstreams.

Progressivism is the slightly better looking cousin of socialism. It's nothing more than a bridge step to socialism. Look at the history of progressivism from Teddy Roosevelt and then look at the history alongside of the socialist movements in Europe (Nazi's) and then lenin's communist movement. Today's EU has become nothing more than the 4th Reich.

The history is undeniable unless you just want to stick your fingers in your ears and deny the truth. The parallel's are amazing and it's obvious the modern day US progressive movement is a throw back to Wilson and FDR's failed attempt at remaking Wilson's vision.

 

[BettyYeti]

Semantics. Drop it.

It's childish. The government of American represents America. It's not just when you approve of those in power.

False.

The ruling class government does not represent the interests of the collective people, or even the majority of people.

"The people" is all inclusive. Not just restricted to the majority of like minded sheep, or the minority of greedy and corrupt politicians/aristocrats.

We are not a democracy, dumbass. The will of the people is not what rules here. Learn American history.

 

[Onyx]

No True Scotsman is not a fallacy in a nation founded upon Liberalism.

False.

The constitution did not found the American nation or the American country.

Lord Jeremy of Connecticut, or whatever that founding fathers name was, did not forge the countryside with his bear hands.

 

[Rustic]

I'll stand with my hand over my heart, out of respect for those that take it seriously, but I don't utter a word. It is a crock. I do not owe allegiance to a flag. I owe allegiance to the Constitution. The National Anthem is even worse. it is almost impossible to sing, and frankly, is a lousy song, anyway. I wish to hell that they would change it to "America the Beautiful".

You moron, the flag represents the Constitution. What a fucking idiot... hahahaha... whooosh over your head ...

True. The flag is sacred. That is the reason that the largest American flag in town flies over the Toyota dealership. I always put my hand over my heart when I drive by. Scares the hell out of my daughter.

That is why getting along is so overrated, it's obvious the country is separating. Rodney King is Dead.... Lol

 

[Onyx]

We are not a democracy, dumbass. The will of the people is not what rules here. Learn American history.

Contradiction.

Last post you stated that the government represents the American nation, which is synonymous with the American people.

Since the government does not represent the American people, it cannot represent the American nation. It is illegitimate on that basis. (and many others)

 

[Kat]

I see very clearly. And absolutely I am patriotic.

Do you support the course of action taken by the state currently?

If so, then pledging allegiance to that state is unpatriotic.

Patriotism is love for country. Not for state.

I didn't say anything about state, so I sure do not know where that is coming from. I am talking the country as a whole.

 

[defcon4]

I see very clearly. And absolutely I am patriotic.

Do you support the course of action taken by the state currently?

If so, then pledging allegiance to that state is unpatriotic.

Patriotism is love for country. Not for state.

The Pledge is not for the state..it is to the Republic what is founded on the Constitution. The pledge is to the Constitution. I shouldn't explain it to you... gosh... people are blinded by their creed..

 

[BettyYeti]

The constitution did not found the American nation or the American country.

You are fucking stupid. It is the foundational document of America. Without it there is no nation called America. You, sir, are a fucking moron.

 

[SYTFE]

"Back then we had dictators, kings and queens."

Back then it was better, Democracy is a failed concept and Democracy allows even the stupidest people to vote, a Dictatorship in tandem with a Monarchy is the best system for a nation.

Wow. Just...wow. Your posts in this thread have been absolutely astonishing. You are the most right wing person I've ever run into on the net. It's crazy! Thank God you are not American!

"Wow. Just...wow. Your posts in this thread have been absolutely astonishing. You are the most right wing person I've ever run into on the net. It's crazy! Thank God you are not American!"

Thank you darling for paying me this wonderful compliment You better stop flirting with me like this, you don't want to get high blood pressure.

I can tell you I look great in black, we Right-Wing Totalitarians have always had the most elegant of sartorial tastes, if you're lucky one of these days I might let you polish my boots and touch my Moroccan leather whip

In your wet authoritarian dreams, dear. I wouldn't touch you with Defcon's dick.

 

[Rustic]

I see very clearly. And absolutely I am patriotic.

Do you support the course of action taken by the state currently?

If so, then pledging allegiance to that state is unpatriotic.

Patriotism is love for country. Not for state.

Semantics. Drop it.

It's childish. The government of American represents America. It's not just when you approve of those in power.

The federal government and the country are not one in the same, in fact they could not be further apart. Dumbass

 

[Onyx]

Are you a Libertarian by any chance? I just saw some of your posts..

I am an anarchist.

That outdated term "intelligentsia" you are using refers to the British scholarly elite.