Can Public Option Work?

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

If you need a car, you probably don't need a Mustang GT, but it's nice to have options.

If considered on it's own merit, the public 'option' should be just that, an option.

I have heard a lot of good praises for Medicare here in Florida, I would be happy if we scrapped the whole bucket of lobby-brewed 'reform' and just made Medicare A & B available to me as an option for a fair premium. If it were offered for less than private companies currently charge and the coverage were adequate, why not?

Why would I buy FIAT 500 from the Government Motors for the price of Mustang GT when I can buy Mustang GT directly from Ford Company for the same price?

That sir, is is a question that you must decide in the privacy of your own mind for yourself.

But isn't it nice to have options?​

It sure is but if we allow the public option to pass we will no longer have options....according to those in government who support it at least.

 

[saveliberty]

It appears Obamacare has a death penalty for those with pre-existing conditions.

If you are declined by an insurer for a pre-existing condition, you must wait six months for coverage under Obamacare. Six month wait while you have a failing heart or cancer? That is a death sentence.

 

[Bern80]

What we need is a maintenance program for physicals, pap smears and the occasional boo-boo sold separately from the 'insurance' we need for if our kid gets leukemia.

Totally agree (from the kid (well not a kid anymore) that got leukemia). Doesn't GEICO kind of do this already? Another idea that people can already do would be to set up an FSA or HSA for the more routine medical issues. I set aside about $1000 a year for checkups and prescriptions out of my paycheck. That's pretax, so it's really less than $1000 over having to pay straight out of pocket. All we need is for the insurance companies to offer this kind of option. My only fear would be that knowing them they would make the premiums higher than normal coverage.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

It appears Obamacare has a death penalty for those with pre-existing conditions.

If you are declined by an insurer for a pre-existing condition, you must wait six months for coverage under Obamacare. Six month wait while you have a failing heart or cancer? That is a death sentence.

Thats how it works in europe and canada. You have to wait months for specialists.

 

[Chris]

It appears Obamacare has a death penalty for those with pre-existing conditions.

If you are declined by an insurer for a pre-existing condition, you must wait six months for coverage under Obamacare. Six month wait while you have a failing heart or cancer? That is a death sentence.

Thats how it works in europe and canada. You have to wait months for specialists.

Bullshit.

France has very low waiting times.

Do a little research.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

It appears Obamacare has a death penalty for those with pre-existing conditions.

If you are declined by an insurer for a pre-existing condition, you must wait six months for coverage under Obamacare. Six month wait while you have a failing heart or cancer? That is a death sentence.

Verses being denied FOREVER by the ins COs? Wow that post makes a lot of sense.

 

[Chris]

It appears Obamacare has a death penalty for those with pre-existing conditions.

If you are declined by an insurer for a pre-existing condition, you must wait six months for coverage under Obamacare. Six month wait while you have a failing heart or cancer? That is a death sentence.

Verses being denied FOREVER by the ins COs? Wow that post makes a lot of sense.

The right and their corporate masters have lied and lied and lied about national health insurance, but anyone who does even the slightest bit of research can see through their lies.

Every other industrialized country in the world has national health insurance, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare.

 

[The Rabbi]

It appears Obamacare has a death penalty for those with pre-existing conditions.

If you are declined by an insurer for a pre-existing condition, you must wait six months for coverage under Obamacare. Six month wait while you have a failing heart or cancer? That is a death sentence.

Verses being denied FOREVER by the ins COs? Wow that post makes a lot of sense.

Coverage is denied where people have lied on their applications. Newsflash: the scumbags are often the insureds, not the insurers.

 

[saveliberty]

It appears Obamacare has a death penalty for those with pre-existing conditions.

If you are declined by an insurer for a pre-existing condition, you must wait six months for coverage under Obamacare. Six month wait while you have a failing heart or cancer? That is a death sentence.

Thats how it works in europe and canada. You have to wait months for specialists.

Bullshit.

France has very low waiting times.

Do a little research.

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/commerce.web/product_files/WaitingYourTurn2008.pdf

Despite a one week fall from the high reached in 2007, the total wait time remains high,
both historically and internationally. Compared to 1993, waiting time in 2008 is 86
percent longer. Moreover, academic studies of waiting time have found that Canadians
wait longer than Americans, Germans, and Swedes (sometimes) for cardiac care,
although not as long as New Zealanders or the British.

 

[Intense]

It appears Obamacare has a death penalty for those with pre-existing conditions.

If you are declined by an insurer for a pre-existing condition, you must wait six months for coverage under Obamacare. Six month wait while you have a failing heart or cancer? That is a death sentence.

Thats how it works in europe and canada. You have to wait months for specialists.

Bullshit.

France has very low waiting times.

Do a little research.

France focuses on care not Bureaucracy, Small administrative staffs.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

It appears Obamacare has a death penalty for those with pre-existing conditions.

If you are declined by an insurer for a pre-existing condition, you must wait six months for coverage under Obamacare. Six month wait while you have a failing heart or cancer? That is a death sentence.

Thats how it works in europe and canada. You have to wait months for specialists.

Bullshit.

France has very low waiting times.

Do a little research.

And Cuba, Canada, and England have to wait several months for specialists. I had to see a heart specialist a few months ago and I had to wait a week for an appointment.

Cherry pick one country....good job.

 

[saveliberty]

Actually I found France has a very high ratio of doctors to patients. A shorter waiting time seems very likely. The doctors pay very little for malpractice coverage and make about $55,000 a year. The tax rate is 40%, but much of that is not paid by doctors as part of the plan. Also, most of a doctor's education is government paid. Unlikely such a plan would work here.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

It appears Obamacare has a death penalty for those with pre-existing conditions.

If you are declined by an insurer for a pre-existing condition, you must wait six months for coverage under Obamacare. Six month wait while you have a failing heart or cancer? That is a death sentence.

Verses being denied FOREVER by the ins COs? Wow that post makes a lot of sense.

Coverage is denied where people have lied on their applications. Newsflash: the scumbags are often the insureds, not the insurers.

total backwards out your ass bullshit. It's the people who are TRUTHFULL about their pre-exsisting conditions who have them denied as pre-exsisting and therefor DENIED! Quit you bullshit outright LIES.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Oh and Rabbi you are quickly becoming the biggest liar on this board. Try to start posting FACTS rather than your OPINION.

 

[saveliberty]

It appears Obamacare has a death penalty for those with pre-existing conditions.

If you are declined by an insurer for a pre-existing condition, you must wait six months for coverage under Obamacare. Six month wait while you have a failing heart or cancer? That is a death sentence.

Verses being denied FOREVER by the ins COs? Wow that post makes a lot of sense.

In the cases I suggest the person is dead either way. Pre-existing conditions are supposed to be covered by private insurers under Obamacare. Do they get to wait six months or just the government plan?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

It appears Obamacare has a death penalty for those with pre-existing conditions.

If you are declined by an insurer for a pre-existing condition, you must wait six months for coverage under Obamacare. Six month wait while you have a failing heart or cancer? That is a death sentence.

Verses being denied FOREVER by the ins COs? Wow that post makes a lot of sense.

In the cases I suggest the person is dead either way. Pre-existing conditions are supposed to be covered by private insurers under Obamacare. Do they get to wait six months or just the government plan?

You have to understand that the ins COs are motivated by only one thing......PROFIT! So when you have adjusters getting 6 figure bonuses for keeping payout as low as possible then people will NOT get fair coverage.

 

[saveliberty]

Verses being denied FOREVER by the ins COs? Wow that post makes a lot of sense.

In the cases I suggest the person is dead either way. Pre-existing conditions are supposed to be covered by private insurers under Obamacare. Do they get to wait six months or just the government plan?

You have to understand that the ins COs are motivated by only one thing......PROFIT! So when you have adjusters getting 6 figure bonuses for keeping payout as low as possible then people will NOT get fair coverage.

Some might view that as cost control. Seems like that was one of the big reasons government had to be a part of this. I would be interested in seeing your 6 figure bonuses for adjusters list.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Actually I found France has a very high ratio of doctors to patients. A shorter waiting time seems very likely. The doctors pay very little for malpractice coverage and make about $55,000 a year. The tax rate is 40%, but much of that is not paid by doctors as part of the plan. Also, most of a doctor's education is government paid. Unlikely such a plan would work here.

Indeed, the existence or non existence of a national health insurance program is irrelevant to the cost of health care/insurance. In wealthy countries that have substantially lower health care costs than the US, the governments achieve lower health care costs by mandates lower reimbursements to health care providers.

The less health care providers are paid, the lower health care/insurance costs are with or without a public plan of any sort. There are two ways to lower payments to health care providers. We can do it the way Canada and some other countries have by not allowing providers to charge more for covered services even if consumers are willing to pay it, or we can get rid of archaic federal and state laws that limit price competition in the health care markets, specifically by passing a law to allow insurance companies to sell national health care policies and by amending ERISA so that workers can use the company's contribution to by individual policies instead of being forced, as the present system requires, to buy a health care policy that was designed to serve the company's interests rather than the worker's interests.

These two steps would greatly increase competition in all health insurance markets with insurance companies putting downward pressure on providers in order to maintain profits as consumers sought the least expensive policies that served their needs, but companies that paid too little would find few providers wanted to do business with them, so that by increasing competition in this way, free markets would find the lowest sustainable health care costs that would not require us to sacrifice quality.

On the other hand, in countries like Canada that used coercive legislation to lower health care costs the lower costs of health care are subsidized by consumers who must endure months of pain and suffering while waiting for back surgery or joint replacements and other care the government deems non urgent, and cancer patients must endure the older anti cancer drugs that will do the job but cause much more pain and suffering and collateral damage than newer ones. And even France, which has much higher health care costs than Canada has, although lower than the US, is finding its low rates of payments to health care providers is causing a too low rate of capital investment so that it may soon have to start raising taxes or turn to longer wait times and less advanced medical technologies as Canada has been forced to do. France is now trying to stretch the euro to put off the time when it will have to do these things by encouraging primary care physicians to limit access to tests and specialists just as Obama has proposed doing in his "rewarding quality not quantity" sloganeering.

Obviously, it makes more sense to leave health care and health insurance costs to negotiations between consumers and providers in free market negotiations than to leave these decisions up employers or to politicians who are seeking to please one or another special interest group.

 

[toomuchtime_]

In the cases I suggest the person is dead either way. Pre-existing conditions are supposed to be covered by private insurers under Obamacare. Do they get to wait six months or just the government plan?

You have to understand that the ins COs are motivated by only one thing......PROFIT! So when you have adjusters getting 6 figure bonuses for keeping payout as low as possible then people will NOT get fair coverage.

Some might view that as cost control. Seems like that was one of the big reasons government had to be a part of this. I would be interested in seeing your 6 figure bonuses for adjusters list.

That's very open minded of you. Some might simply dismiss the claim as bogus since the AMA claims Medicare denies a higher percentage of claims than private insurers do.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/368/reportcard.pdf

See metric 12.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Health Care is ALL ABOUT PROFIT!!! They don't give a SHIT about the HUMAN cost of their policies. They would let you die rather than pay out make no mistake about that.