Can Paris summit save two-state solution?

[P F Tinmore]

We already covered this. There are no "indigenous Palestinian Arabs". No such thing. Completely fabricated propaganda.

So, when was it that the entire population of Palestine left and whole new bunch of immigrants moved in?

Can you give me a date?

The history of the geographic area called Pal'istan (it must be a different place vs. your invented "country of Pal'istan"), is one of invaders coming and going. The Islamist invaders are just the more recent invaders.

1924 was a milestone and marked the inevitable clash of Islam's unreformed seventh century doctrine and the modern, civilized world led by the West. The Muslim Brotherhood was established in response to the end of the Caliphate and so any of the Islamist Death Cult all-stars have whined about the humiliation of Moslems in the decades since.

Of course that ducks my question.

 

[Hollie]

We already covered this. There are no "indigenous Palestinian Arabs". No such thing. Completely fabricated propaganda.

So, when was it that the entire population of Palestine left and whole new bunch of immigrants moved in?

Can you give me a date?

The history of the geographic area called Pal'istan (it must be a different place vs. your invented "country of Pal'istan"), is one of invaders coming and going. The Islamist invaders are just the more recent invaders.

1924 was a milestone and marked the inevitable clash of Islam's unreformed seventh century doctrine and the modern, civilized world led by the West. The Muslim Brotherhood was established in response to the end of the Caliphate and so any of the Islamist Death Cult all-stars have whined about the humiliation of Moslems in the decades since.

Of course that ducks my question.

Nice dodge™

Your silly one-liners literally shout out your befuddlement.

 

[Muhammed]

Can Paris summit save two-state solution?

No.

 

[Andylusion]

We already covered this. There are no "indigenous Palestinian Arabs". No such thing. Completely fabricated propaganda.

So, when was it that the entire population of Palestine left and whole new bunch of immigrants moved in?

Can you give me a date?

When was it the entire population of any country left at the same time? Never.

Asking for something that doesn't exist is stupid.

But the lack of some magic specific date, doesn't prove the claim wrong either. Don't be an idiot.

There was no 'indigenous Palestinian Arabs' ever. That never existed. In fact, the name in itself is a contradiction. It's the same as saying the 'indigenous Crimean Russians', or the 'indigenous Ukrainian Russians'.

The only people indigenous today, to the land of Israel, is the Jews. Prior to the land of Israel, all the people groups with older claims, no longer exist. The people there now, that are not Jews, are immigrants.

At the very most, prior to the British control of the land, there are roughly 200,000 people that lived there, and some of them were Jews. The Ottoman empire ruined the land, with bad policies and lack of proper governance.

Most of the people that you claim are "Palestinians" are Egyptian. Some are Jordan, some are Iraqi, some are Lebanese.

But the majority are Egyptian. Some Egyptians fled to Israel (palestine), to avoid conscription. Deserters. Some were brought to Israel, as forced labor. When Egypt was rolled out of Israel by the Ottomans, many Egyptian soldiers deserted the army to stay in Israel.

The only group of non-jews that have been there for any real length of time, is the Bedouin tribes of Arabs. These showed up around the 7th Century. But to this day, the Bedouin tribes make up a tiny tiny fraction of the non-Jewish population. We're talking just a hundred thousand or so.

And quite frankly, if the only group to still be in Israel was the Bedouins, they would live at peace with Israel. Jews have been accommodating to the Bedouins, and the Bedouins (for the most part) have been accommodating to the Jews.

That isn't to say it's because they have a fondness for each other. Largely because the Bedouins have been nomadic herders for generations, and that doesn't conflict with the Jews.

Again, I'm not suggesting there are no examples of conflict between the two, only that largely they don't bother each other, as opposed to how Hamas and the IDF do.

 

[P F Tinmore]

There was no 'indigenous Palestinian Arabs' ever.

Do Palestinians have to be Arab? I don't see the relevance.

 

[montelatici]

We already covered this. There are no "indigenous Palestinian Arabs". No such thing. Completely fabricated propaganda.

So, when was it that the entire population of Palestine left and whole new bunch of immigrants moved in?

Can you give me a date?

When was it the entire population of any country left at the same time? Never.

Asking for something that doesn't exist is stupid.

But the lack of some magic specific date, doesn't prove the claim wrong either. Don't be an idiot.

There was no 'indigenous Palestinian Arabs' ever. That never existed. In fact, the name in itself is a contradiction. It's the same as saying the 'indigenous Crimean Russians', or the 'indigenous Ukrainian Russians'.

The only people indigenous today, to the land of Israel, is the Jews. Prior to the land of Israel, all the people groups with older claims, no longer exist. The people there now, that are not Jews, are immigrants.

At the very most, prior to the British control of the land, there are roughly 200,000 people that lived there, and some of them were Jews. The Ottoman empire ruined the land, with bad policies and lack of proper governance.

Most of the people that you claim are "Palestinians" are Egyptian. Some are Jordan, some are Iraqi, some are Lebanese.

But the majority are Egyptian. Some Egyptians fled to Israel (palestine), to avoid conscription. Deserters. Some were brought to Israel, as forced labor. When Egypt was rolled out of Israel by the Ottomans, many Egyptian soldiers deserted the army to stay in Israel.

The only group of non-jews that have been there for any real length of time, is the Bedouin tribes of Arabs. These showed up around the 7th Century. But to this day, the Bedouin tribes make up a tiny tiny fraction of the non-Jewish population. We're talking just a hundred thousand or so.

And quite frankly, if the only group to still be in Israel was the Bedouins, they would live at peace with Israel. Jews have been accommodating to the Bedouins, and the Bedouins (for the most part) have been accommodating to the Jews.

That isn't to say it's because they have a fondness for each other. Largely because the Bedouins have been nomadic herders for generations, and that doesn't conflict with the Jews.

Again, I'm not suggesting there are no examples of conflict between the two, only that largely they don't bother each other, as opposed to how Hamas and the IDF do.

Everything you wrote is Zionist propaganda. The Muslims and Christian Palestinians at the time of the British occupation were the descendants of the indigenous people of Palestine. Why would Egyptians go to Palestine to be conscripted into the Ottoman Army. LOL You people crack me up.

You are full of crap. Now the facts:

AN INTERIM REPORT
ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF

PALESTINE,

during the period
1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.


AN INTERIM REPORT
ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF
PALESTINE.

I.--THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR.

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews.

Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)

 

[P F Tinmore]

Most of the people that you claim are "Palestinians" are Egyptian. Some are Jordan, some are Iraqi, some are Lebanese.

You are forgetting that a hundred years ago they were all the same place. Moving from Amman to Jaffa was no different than moving from Albany to Buffalo. Somebody drawing a line between them does not make them foreigners.

The defining factor was when the Turkish Empire was divided into separate states in 1924. All of the people who normally lived in the territory that became Palestine became Palestinians. That was the recognized law of state succession. Palestinians are Palestinians by fact and law.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

There was no 'indigenous Palestinian Arabs' ever.

Do Palestinians have to be Arab? I don't see the relevance.

In their Charters and Declarations of Independence, the Palestinians claim to be part of the larger Arab nation in the very first paragraphs. So obviously being Arab is very important to their identity.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

We already covered this. There are no "indigenous Palestinian Arabs". No such thing. Completely fabricated propaganda.

So, when was it that the entire population of Palestine left and whole new bunch of immigrants moved in?

Can you give me a date?

When was it the entire population of any country left at the same time? Never.

Asking for something that doesn't exist is stupid.

But the lack of some magic specific date, doesn't prove the claim wrong either. Don't be an idiot.

There was no 'indigenous Palestinian Arabs' ever. That never existed. In fact, the name in itself is a contradiction. It's the same as saying the 'indigenous Crimean Russians', or the 'indigenous Ukrainian Russians'.

The only people indigenous today, to the land of Israel, is the Jews. Prior to the land of Israel, all the people groups with older claims, no longer exist. The people there now, that are not Jews, are immigrants.

At the very most, prior to the British control of the land, there are roughly 200,000 people that lived there, and some of them were Jews. The Ottoman empire ruined the land, with bad policies and lack of proper governance.

Most of the people that you claim are "Palestinians" are Egyptian. Some are Jordan, some are Iraqi, some are Lebanese.

But the majority are Egyptian. Some Egyptians fled to Israel (palestine), to avoid conscription. Deserters. Some were brought to Israel, as forced labor. When Egypt was rolled out of Israel by the Ottomans, many Egyptian soldiers deserted the army to stay in Israel.

The only group of non-jews that have been there for any real length of time, is the Bedouin tribes of Arabs. These showed up around the 7th Century. But to this day, the Bedouin tribes make up a tiny tiny fraction of the non-Jewish population. We're talking just a hundred thousand or so.

And quite frankly, if the only group to still be in Israel was the Bedouins, they would live at peace with Israel. Jews have been accommodating to the Bedouins, and the Bedouins (for the most part) have been accommodating to the Jews.

That isn't to say it's because they have a fondness for each other. Largely because the Bedouins have been nomadic herders for generations, and that doesn't conflict with the Jews.

Again, I'm not suggesting there are no examples of conflict between the two, only that largely they don't bother each other, as opposed to how Hamas and the IDF do.

Everything you wrote is Zionist propaganda. The Muslims and Christian Palestinians at the time of the British occupation were the descendants of the indigenous people of Palestine. Why would Egyptians go to Palestine to be conscripted into the Ottoman Army. LOL You people crack me up.

You are full of crap. Now the facts:

AN INTERIM REPORT
ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF

PALESTINE,

during the period
1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.


AN INTERIM REPORT
ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF
PALESTINE.

I.--THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR.

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews.

Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)

That report only states the composition of the population at that particular point in time. There's nothing in that report to indicate that those people were direct descendants of the original inhabitants of the land.

 

[P F Tinmore]

We already covered this. There are no "indigenous Palestinian Arabs". No such thing. Completely fabricated propaganda.

So, when was it that the entire population of Palestine left and whole new bunch of immigrants moved in?

Can you give me a date?

When was it the entire population of any country left at the same time? Never.

Asking for something that doesn't exist is stupid.

But the lack of some magic specific date, doesn't prove the claim wrong either. Don't be an idiot.

There was no 'indigenous Palestinian Arabs' ever. That never existed. In fact, the name in itself is a contradiction. It's the same as saying the 'indigenous Crimean Russians', or the 'indigenous Ukrainian Russians'.

The only people indigenous today, to the land of Israel, is the Jews. Prior to the land of Israel, all the people groups with older claims, no longer exist. The people there now, that are not Jews, are immigrants.

At the very most, prior to the British control of the land, there are roughly 200,000 people that lived there, and some of them were Jews. The Ottoman empire ruined the land, with bad policies and lack of proper governance.

Most of the people that you claim are "Palestinians" are Egyptian. Some are Jordan, some are Iraqi, some are Lebanese.

But the majority are Egyptian. Some Egyptians fled to Israel (palestine), to avoid conscription. Deserters. Some were brought to Israel, as forced labor. When Egypt was rolled out of Israel by the Ottomans, many Egyptian soldiers deserted the army to stay in Israel.

The only group of non-jews that have been there for any real length of time, is the Bedouin tribes of Arabs. These showed up around the 7th Century. But to this day, the Bedouin tribes make up a tiny tiny fraction of the non-Jewish population. We're talking just a hundred thousand or so.

And quite frankly, if the only group to still be in Israel was the Bedouins, they would live at peace with Israel. Jews have been accommodating to the Bedouins, and the Bedouins (for the most part) have been accommodating to the Jews.

That isn't to say it's because they have a fondness for each other. Largely because the Bedouins have been nomadic herders for generations, and that doesn't conflict with the Jews.

Again, I'm not suggesting there are no examples of conflict between the two, only that largely they don't bother each other, as opposed to how Hamas and the IDF do.

Everything you wrote is Zionist propaganda. The Muslims and Christian Palestinians at the time of the British occupation were the descendants of the indigenous people of Palestine. Why would Egyptians go to Palestine to be conscripted into the Ottoman Army. LOL You people crack me up.

You are full of crap. Now the facts:

AN INTERIM REPORT
ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF

PALESTINE,

during the period
1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.


AN INTERIM REPORT
ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF
PALESTINE.

I.--THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR.

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews.

Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)

That report only states the composition of the population at that particular point in time. There's nothing in that report to indicate that those people were direct descendants of the original inhabitants of the land.

Well, none of them were cave men if that is what you mean.

There was nothing in the report because it is irrelevant.

 

[Indeependent]

President Donald J Trump...Goodbye "2 State" Solution.

 

[P F Tinmore]

President Donald J Trump...Goodbye "2 State" Solution.

Good, we can stop beating that dead horse. The two state solution died in 1937.

 

[Indeependent]

President Donald J Trump...Goodbye "2 State" Solution.

Good, we can stop beating that dead horse. The two state solution died in 1937.

As did any deal between 2 Arab States.
Yep, they murder each other so Jews should trust them.
You're such a schmuck.

 

[Andylusion]

Most of the people that you claim are "Palestinians" are Egyptian. Some are Jordan, some are Iraqi, some are Lebanese.

You are forgetting that a hundred years ago they were all the same place. Moving from Amman to Jaffa was no different than moving from Albany to Buffalo. Somebody drawing a line between them does not make them foreigners.

The defining factor was when the Turkish Empire was divided into separate states in 1924. All of the people who normally lived in the territory that became Palestine became Palestinians. That was the recognized law of state succession. Palestinians are Palestinians by fact and law.

No, I get that. That doesn't change anything I said though. They are all still immigrants from other places. They were not "indigenous" to that land. The same is true of Ukrainian Russians. Yes, under soviet domination, they could move to and from Ukraine like it was nothing. That doesn't mean they are magically "indigenous" to Ukraine. They are Russians.

No, they are not Palestinians. And if they are by law, the law is wrong. And quite frankly, the Jews are going to kick them out, whether you claim they have a law saying so or not. So... too bad. Better move on, before you end up killed, eh?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Most of the people that you claim are "Palestinians" are Egyptian. Some are Jordan, some are Iraqi, some are Lebanese.

You are forgetting that a hundred years ago they were all the same place. Moving from Amman to Jaffa was no different than moving from Albany to Buffalo. Somebody drawing a line between them does not make them foreigners.

The defining factor was when the Turkish Empire was divided into separate states in 1924. All of the people who normally lived in the territory that became Palestine became Palestinians. That was the recognized law of state succession. Palestinians are Palestinians by fact and law.

No, I get that. That doesn't change anything I said though. They are all still immigrants from other places. They were not "indigenous" to that land. The same is true of Ukrainian Russians. Yes, under soviet domination, they could move to and from Ukraine like it was nothing. That doesn't mean they are magically "indigenous" to Ukraine. They are Russians.

No, they are not Palestinians. And if they are by law, the law is wrong. And quite frankly, the Jews are going to kick them out, whether you claim they have a law saying so or not. So... too bad. Better move on, before you end up killed, eh?

Pffft, we already know that Israel doesn't give a rat's ass about any law.

That will eventually catch up to them.

 

[Andylusion]

Most of the people that you claim are "Palestinians" are Egyptian. Some are Jordan, some are Iraqi, some are Lebanese.

You are forgetting that a hundred years ago they were all the same place. Moving from Amman to Jaffa was no different than moving from Albany to Buffalo. Somebody drawing a line between them does not make them foreigners.

The defining factor was when the Turkish Empire was divided into separate states in 1924. All of the people who normally lived in the territory that became Palestine became Palestinians. That was the recognized law of state succession. Palestinians are Palestinians by fact and law.

No, I get that. That doesn't change anything I said though. They are all still immigrants from other places. They were not "indigenous" to that land. The same is true of Ukrainian Russians. Yes, under soviet domination, they could move to and from Ukraine like it was nothing. That doesn't mean they are magically "indigenous" to Ukraine. They are Russians.

No, they are not Palestinians. And if they are by law, the law is wrong. And quite frankly, the Jews are going to kick them out, whether you claim they have a law saying so or not. So... too bad. Better move on, before you end up killed, eh?

Pffft, we already know that Israel doesn't give a rat's ass about any law.

That will eventually catch up to them.

Well if that's true then yes. If you are referring to a morally wrong law, that says others should have their land.... no. It won't. Promise you.

 

[Challenger]

No one believes that Russian and other European Jews are "returnees" in any sense of the word whereas indigenous Palestinians whose land was robbed to create Israel are the true people who have a birthright to their homeland. Having to explain this is proof that talking to the Israelis is a dead end.

I have two distinct answers to this:

First,

If you think that "no one" believes that the Jewish people are returning to their homeland, the land of their ancestors, the land they originated in, the land they were forcibly removed from, then you are incapable of understanding, and thus, discussing this conflict.

The British Mandate believed that the Jewish people were returning to their homeland (thus: "reconstituting their national homeland" and "they are here by right and not on sufferance"). Emir Faisal believed that the Jewish people were returning to their homeland: "We will wish the Jews a most hearty welcome home." Gandhi said: "...so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home” (emphasis mine). And the Jewish people most certainly believe that they are returning to their homeland.

To say that "no one" believes....is an obvious falsehood.

Indeed, the idea that the Jewish homeland is NOT Israel and Judea and Samaria is rather a new idea, developed only in the past 70 years or so and directly as a propaganda against Jewish people in the context of the conflict.

Second,

The history of the Jewish people in Israel, Judea and Samaria is factually true. Obviously, undeniably, inarguably, factually true. You can argue that they no longer have rights to return to those lands -- but to argue that the Jewish people weren't there, that the Jewish people didn't originate there, didn't have history there, didn't exist there is an obvious falsehood.


You, and others, are trying to make the argument that indigeneity is passed to those who remain on the land, even when the land is overtaken by an invading, conquering, settler colonialist culture and the original culture is disenfranchised, cleansed, forcibly removed or overtaken and converted.

The problem with your argument is that, held consistently (and by that I mean sans anti-semitism) it legitimizes the Jews colonization of Israel, Juda and Samaria and renders all "Palestinians" living outside of Palestine as foreigners.

It would be fair to say, no-one who has researched the subject objectively, "believes that Russian and other European Jews are "returnees" in any sense of the word whereas indigenous Palestinians whose land was robbed to create Israel are the true people who have a birthright to their homeland." Zionists and their stooges, however cling to the propaganda and misinformation that spews out of the Zionist Hasbara machine.

 

[Challenger]

Ironically prior to the 1960s, many of this same "palestinians" were insulted to be called Palestinians, and always preferred to be called Jordanians, Egyptians, Arabians and Iraqis. They self-identified as being immigrants.

Yeah, the Hasbarists keep coming up with this a lot, care to provide a link to a credible source for this assertion?

 

[Andylusion]

No one believes that Russian and other European Jews are "returnees" in any sense of the word whereas indigenous Palestinians whose land was robbed to create Israel are the true people who have a birthright to their homeland. Having to explain this is proof that talking to the Israelis is a dead end.

I have two distinct answers to this:

First,

If you think that "no one" believes that the Jewish people are returning to their homeland, the land of their ancestors, the land they originated in, the land they were forcibly removed from, then you are incapable of understanding, and thus, discussing this conflict.

The British Mandate believed that the Jewish people were returning to their homeland (thus: "reconstituting their national homeland" and "they are here by right and not on sufferance"). Emir Faisal believed that the Jewish people were returning to their homeland: "We will wish the Jews a most hearty welcome home." Gandhi said: "...so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home” (emphasis mine). And the Jewish people most certainly believe that they are returning to their homeland.

To say that "no one" believes....is an obvious falsehood.

Indeed, the idea that the Jewish homeland is NOT Israel and Judea and Samaria is rather a new idea, developed only in the past 70 years or so and directly as a propaganda against Jewish people in the context of the conflict.

Second,

The history of the Jewish people in Israel, Judea and Samaria is factually true. Obviously, undeniably, inarguably, factually true. You can argue that they no longer have rights to return to those lands -- but to argue that the Jewish people weren't there, that the Jewish people didn't originate there, didn't have history there, didn't exist there is an obvious falsehood.


You, and others, are trying to make the argument that indigeneity is passed to those who remain on the land, even when the land is overtaken by an invading, conquering, settler colonialist culture and the original culture is disenfranchised, cleansed, forcibly removed or overtaken and converted.

The problem with your argument is that, held consistently (and by that I mean sans anti-semitism) it legitimizes the Jews colonization of Israel, Juda and Samaria and renders all "Palestinians" living outside of Palestine as foreigners.

It would be fair to say, no-one who has researched the subject objectively, "believes that Russian and other European Jews are "returnees" in any sense of the word whereas indigenous Palestinians whose land was robbed to create Israel are the true people who have a birthright to their homeland." Zionists and their stooges, however cling to the propaganda and misinformation that spews out of the Zionist Hasbara machine.

I like that. You provided a meter of your own post, for our benefit. Kudos for providing such an accurate meter for us.

 

[Challenger]

No one believes that Russian and other European Jews are "returnees" in any sense of the word whereas indigenous Palestinians whose land was robbed to create Israel are the true people who have a birthright to their homeland. Having to explain this is proof that talking to the Israelis is a dead end.

I have two distinct answers to this:

First,

If you think that "no one" believes that the Jewish people are returning to their homeland, the land of their ancestors, the land they originated in, the land they were forcibly removed from, then you are incapable of understanding, and thus, discussing this conflict.

The British Mandate believed that the Jewish people were returning to their homeland (thus: "reconstituting their national homeland" and "they are here by right and not on sufferance"). Emir Faisal believed that the Jewish people were returning to their homeland: "We will wish the Jews a most hearty welcome home." Gandhi said: "...so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home” (emphasis mine). And the Jewish people most certainly believe that they are returning to their homeland.

To say that "no one" believes....is an obvious falsehood.

Indeed, the idea that the Jewish homeland is NOT Israel and Judea and Samaria is rather a new idea, developed only in the past 70 years or so and directly as a propaganda against Jewish people in the context of the conflict.

Second,

The history of the Jewish people in Israel, Judea and Samaria is factually true. Obviously, undeniably, inarguably, factually true. You can argue that they no longer have rights to return to those lands -- but to argue that the Jewish people weren't there, that the Jewish people didn't originate there, didn't have history there, didn't exist there is an obvious falsehood.


You, and others, are trying to make the argument that indigeneity is passed to those who remain on the land, even when the land is overtaken by an invading, conquering, settler colonialist culture and the original culture is disenfranchised, cleansed, forcibly removed or overtaken and converted.

The problem with your argument is that, held consistently (and by that I mean sans anti-semitism) it legitimizes the Jews colonization of Israel, Juda and Samaria and renders all "Palestinians" living outside of Palestine as foreigners.

It would be fair to say, no-one who has researched the subject objectively, "believes that Russian and other European Jews are "returnees" in any sense of the word whereas indigenous Palestinians whose land was robbed to create Israel are the true people who have a birthright to their homeland." Zionists and their stooges, however cling to the propaganda and misinformation that spews out of the Zionist Hasbara machine.

I like that. You provided a meter of your own post, for our benefit. Kudos for providing such an accurate meter for us.