Can Anti-Same Sex M Advocates Address These Facts?

[CurveLight]

Uh yeah, I knew that. Every state has no-fault divorce, though not all no-fault divorce laws are the same. There's more to dissolution of marriage than fault vs. no-fault. Alimony laws, child support laws, property rights -- they all play a part in the dissolution of marriage. Not only that, but you ignore (or are generally ignorant of) other social and economic factors that might affect marriage and divorce in a given state. States with high costs of living, high taxes, states where the general population skews older (for example, MA has the 11th highest median age, PA has the 5th highest), states where there's a preponderance of religious activity, states with a large metropolitan area (which coincides with income and education level, which can affect when and if people marry, and if one or both spouses have money), and if there's a general trend of people being in long-term cohabiting relationships where there isn't such a push for marriage, all those factors play a part in the marriage/divorce issue. That's what I was referring to, so I don't know why you're trying to be a little smart-ass like you caught me pulling a fast one. You just took raw stats and came to your own (unfounded, falsely correlative) conclusions.

You cited divorce laws as the reason. That is what I responded to. Now you want to kick and scream and change your claim. Let's make this simple: why don't you back up your claim with facts? Thanks.

Yes I did say divorce laws were a reason. There's more to "divorce laws" than whether the state is has no-fault divorce. And though I could back up everything I just said, I wont. You don't have any reason to disagree with me, but you're trying save face by saying I'm "kicking and screaming" when I just showed you how you were wrong. You had sense enough to Google and find that site you posted. What don't you agree with and why?

You claimed the stats aren't legit so it is up to you to provide the evidence. It's that simple.

 

[The Rabbi]

You cited divorce laws as the reason. That is what I responded to. Now you want to kick and scream and change your claim. Let's make this simple: why don't you back up your claim with facts? Thanks.

Yes I did say divorce laws were a reason. There's more to "divorce laws" than whether the state is has no-fault divorce. And though I could back up everything I just said, I wont. You don't have any reason to disagree with me, but you're trying save face by saying I'm "kicking and screaming" when I just showed you how you were wrong. You had sense enough to Google and find that site you posted. What don't you agree with and why?

You claimed the stats aren't legit so it is up to you to provide the evidence. It's that simple.

Seems to me he did just that. The stats aren't legitimate in the sense of giving a complete picture. It's like saying the recession is over because GDP increased.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

That is not our idea but God's he states that very clearly in the Bible

The bible is a BOOK and it was written by men. Mortal men. Christianity is also a man-made belief system, as are all religions. Not everyone buys into it. I don't.

 

[CurveLight]

Yes I did say divorce laws were a reason. There's more to "divorce laws" than whether the state is has no-fault divorce. And though I could back up everything I just said, I wont. You don't have any reason to disagree with me, but you're trying save face by saying I'm "kicking and screaming" when I just showed you how you were wrong. You had sense enough to Google and find that site you posted. What don't you agree with and why?

You claimed the stats aren't legit so it is up to you to provide the evidence. It's that simple.

Seems to me he did just that. The stats aren't legitimate in the sense of giving a complete picture. It's like saying the recession is over because GDP increased.

Lol.

 

[Qball]

You cited divorce laws as the reason. That is what I responded to. Now you want to kick and scream and change your claim. Let's make this simple: why don't you back up your claim with facts? Thanks.

Yes I did say divorce laws were a reason. There's more to "divorce laws" than whether the state is has no-fault divorce. And though I could back up everything I just said, I wont. You don't have any reason to disagree with me, but you're trying save face by saying I'm "kicking and screaming" when I just showed you how you were wrong. You had sense enough to Google and find that site you posted. What don't you agree with and why?

You claimed the stats aren't legit so it is up to you to provide the evidence. It's that simple.

I didn't say your stats aren't legit. Your ARGUMENT isn't legit. You can't just pay attention to the two things you like and then act like you have the debate sown up. There's more to the social and economic institution of marriage and divorce than mere statistics.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Heterosexual couples fit the definition of marriage. One man and one woman.

There is no inviolable definition of marriage. Polygamy is marriage by definition.

Polygamy is illegal.

Exactly!!!

But polygamy falls under the DEFINITION of marriage. Plural marriages are BY DEFINITION marriages, and yet...

...we were not deterred by any 'compelling' reason not to change the definition of marriage in order to legally exclude polygamy.

Therefore...there is no compelling reason not to 'change' the definition of marriage to legally include same sex marriage.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Keep in mind that no one is preventing anyone from getting married. Even here in TN any two people can get married.
The state won't sanction such a thing and won't award benefits to such a union. Any reason why they should? I don't see one.

Yes, there's a very good reason they should. Because they do it for heterosexual couples. There's no good reason heterosexual couples should receive special treatment.

The NYCRAPPER STILL doesn't geddit.....and probably never will.

The Abnormal Freaks, turtle and Kangaroo fuckers are not considered qualified because they are NOT considered a FAMILY UNIT (with the central premise of PROCREATION) by the Govt which relies on the definition of MARRIAGE established by the Organized Religions of the World.

Queers like the NYCRAPPER, no matter HOW THEY WANT IT....and HOW MANY TIMES THEY WHINE ABOUT IT....are NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE FACT ...... that they are ABNORMAL FREAKS ..... and will never be NORMALS.....because THEY ARE NOT NORMAL !!!!

There's no requirement to procreate when one gets married in this country. Where did you get that idea?

 

[rdean]

Legalizing same-sex marriage would send the message that it's OK to be gay. That's how I've always viewed the motives of those opposed to it. But hey, I'm for making it legal so I could be wrong.

Let it be noted: It's OK to be gay.

 

[rdean]

I've heard that gay men stick their weiners in each other's butt holes. What's up with that?

Imagine a straight man sticking his wiener in a woman's butt hole. It's pretty much the same.

Some woman like it. And if their husband won't do it, sometimes, they find someone who will.

Even funnier, sometimes the husband likes it too. It's one of the reasons the wife can buy a device called a "strap-on". If a married straight couple buys a "strap-on", many times, it's not the husband who is "using" it. Unless, you can say the way he's using it is the way she's "giving it" to him.

If you are married, sexual "adventure" is not only expected, it's recommended. Boredom is one of the main reasons, pardon the word, behind, "divorce".

 

[rdean]

Why do some gays want to marry each other anyway? (And not all gays think same-sex marriage should be legal.) They used to make fun of marriage.

Not all blacks agree with "interracial" marriage.

Some straights "make fun" of marriage.

The number of marriage has declined even though the population is growing.

Thought I would point that out.

 

[rdean]

We are all familiar with the claim SSM should not be allowed because it is immoral and will send an atomic wedgie up the nuclear family's fanny. Thus the strongest claim against SSM is for preservation of our Republic. On the question of its moral value: It does not matter. It truly does not. I think it's immoral for Christian churches, who operate tax free, to erect structures in the name of Christ, preach about the Love of God and the call to Sacrifice, then lock the doors to keep the homeless out. Does my indignation based on my moral compass justify robbing those Churches of their rights? No. The Constitution guarantees them the Right to gloriously display their hypocrisy on a regular basis. (this does not apply to all Christian churches, but the majority of US churches are guilty of following Caesar instead of Christ.) The cry of a moral crime without the justification of intrusion is a selfish microphone indeed.

Massachusetts has often been the iconic ridicule of radio pundits and Christian religious groups who claim it is a great example of the product of immorality, and especially in the Same Sex M debate. This demonstrates the fundamental cognitive dissonance of mob mentality. Here is why: MA has long been a leader in respecting and protecting the sanctity of Marriage. We are approaching a 20 year celebration of having the lowest divorce rates of any State in the entire nation:

"Massachusetts and Connecticut rank first and second, respectively, for having the lowest divorce rates in the nation, according to new 1994 divorce data from the National Center for Health Statistics."
STATE-BY-STATE DIVORCE RATES


That was a time when SSM was being lobbied here. Let's jump a decade and see those numbers:


"The District of Columbia had the lowest reported divorce rate, at 1.7, followed by Massachusetts at 2.2 and Pennsylvania at 2.5."
Divorce Statistics, Marriage Statistics: Divorce Rates in America, Marriage

It was around that time the Constitution chalked up another victory of being a more honest National manifesto. The anti-SSM crowds were ballistic with predictions. Five years later:



Provisional 2008 data from the CDC's National Vital Statistics Report show that after over four years of legal same-sex marriage, the divorce rate in Massachusetts has actually dropped, from 2.3 per thousand residents in 2007 to about 2.0 per thousand in 2008, the lowest rate in the nation—and one that hasn’t been seen since the 1940's.
Low Massachusetts divorce rate another defeat for same-sex marriage opponents


Wow. If that is the type of destruction gays bring to the sanctity of marriage and society I am scared as hell to find out what good it could possibly accomplish.

Iam not citing the data in a claim of causation and saying SSM made divorce rates go down. I am citing it to show the argument of causation put forth by anti-SSM crowds that Same Sex Marriage causes enough harm on society to justify burning portions of the Constitution is simply too damn gay to be true.

Are there any facts in this post that need to be addressed? Are there any at all?

Yes.

 

[Oscar Wao]

I've heard that gay men stick their weiners in each other's butt holes. What's up with that?

Imagine a straight man sticking his wiener in a woman's butt hole. It's pretty much the same.

Some woman like it. And if their husband won't do it, sometimes, they find someone who will.

Even funnier, sometimes the husband likes it too. It's one of the reasons the wife can buy a device called a "strap-on". If a married straight couple buys a "strap-on", many times, it's not the husband who is "using" it. Unless, you can say the way he's using it is the way she's "giving it" to him.

If you are married, sexual "adventure" is not only expected, it's recommended. Boredom is one of the main reasons, pardon the word, behind, "divorce".

You must remember, that's "different."

 

[rdean]

As a Christian I can tell you we will never advocate ssm. That is not our idea but God's he states that very clearly in the Bible. Wouldn't we be a hypocrite if we did? Obliviously some of you have no idea what a church does in our communities around the country. We are not perfect never claimed to be. We know we will never be perfect. But we do try to follow the instruction of the Bible as closely as we can that is the whole point.

The secular world likes to label us as to what they think we should be like. You know we think we are perfect yet we do not live up to their standard but we always measure up to God's standard. The difference is we have been saved our debt is settled with God and he the only one we are concerned about impressing.

Like I said God says no to ssm or homosexuality period. Again I say that is not our words but God's. Does this mean we get a right to hate gay people no it does not. We should always treat each other with respect that does not mean we get to disrespect God in that effort.

I do not say that ssm will destroy the traditional marriage. We are saying is God does not approve and we are not to disagree with him. Do u understand what I am telling you?

One more thing I assure you their are many Churches that reach out to the lost the hungry and the homeless. The churches are one of the last refuge that when somebody needs help the church will step out and try and help them I have been apart of that on many occasions. One church cannot help everybody in this world but we try and cover as much as we can.

I agree with you on one thing there are Church's out there that are not houses of worship but like you said money grubbers that is very sad but we are not all like that. God will deal with them I assure you. That will be his timing not ours.

For one, there is no such thing as invisible magical spirit beings.

Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT
"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction".

The Bible God is very destructive, very into murder and death. According to the Christians, he drowned the entire world. A magical being with so many powers could have simply killed the bad and let the dinosaurs live.

This is a God who told someone to "kill" their only child and then said "Stop, I was just kidding. I only wanted to see if you would actually do it". The very definition of sadism.

Why would anyone expect gays, who are perfectly normal and part of nature, to live by such terrible and arbitrary rules? It's pathetic. If the religious had any sense, they would be ashamed.

 

[Smartt33]

As a Christian I can tell you we will never advocate ssm. That is not our idea but God's he states that very clearly in the Bible. Wouldn't we be a hypocrite if we did? Obliviously some of you have no idea what a church does in our communities around the country. We are not perfect never claimed to be. We know we will never be perfect. But we do try to follow the instruction of the Bible as closely as we can that is the whole point.

The secular world likes to label us as to what they think we should be like. You know we think we are perfect yet we do not live up to their standard but we always measure up to God's standard. The difference is we have been saved our debt is settled with God and he the only one we are concerned about impressing.

Like I said God says no to ssm or homosexuality period. Again I say that is not our words but God's. Does this mean we get a right to hate gay people no it does not. We should always treat each other with respect that does not mean we get to disrespect God in that effort.

I do not say that ssm will destroy the traditional marriage. We are saying is God does not approve and we are not to disagree with him. Do u understand what I am telling you?

One more thing I assure you their are many Churches that reach out to the lost the hungry and the homeless. The churches are one of the last refuge that when somebody needs help the church will step out and try and help them I have been apart of that on many occasions. One church cannot help everybody in this world but we try and cover as much as we can.

I agree with you on one thing there are Church's out there that are not houses of worship but like you said money grubbers that is very sad but we are not all like that. God will deal with them I assure you. That will be his timing not ours.

For one, there is no such thing as invisible magical spirit beings.

Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT
"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction".

The Bible God is very destructive, very into murder and death. According to the Christians, he drowned the entire world. A magical being with so many powers could have simply killed the bad and let the dinosaurs live.

This is a God who told someone to "kill" their only child and then said "Stop, I was just kidding. I only wanted to see if you would actually do it". The very definition of sadism.

Why would anyone expect gays, who are perfectly normal and part of nature, to live by such terrible and arbitrary rules? It's pathetic. If the religious had any sense, they would be ashamed.

SSM is immoral, against God's creation plan, and cannot be condoned by believers.

God is absolute, and no matter what people believe about Him, He is who He is.

The Word of God, the Bible, is powerful enough to eternally save a soul, but man is free enough to say no to it.

Nothing we do can cause God to love us any less, and nothing we can do can cause God to love us any more. However, God's justice and righteousness will not allow for sin to live in His presence. That is why sin will lead to separation from the presence of God forever. The gifts of forgiveness, grace, and mercy are all because of God's love. He not only made those gifts available, He paid for them personally for us. When we reject them, it does not change His love for us, it does result in the possiblility of an eternal personal relationship
with Him.

 

[Toro]

I've heard that gay men stick their weiners in each other's butt holes. What's up with that?

Imagine a straight man sticking his wiener in a woman's butt hole. It's pretty much the same.

Some woman like it. And if their husband won't do it, sometimes, they find someone who will.

Even funnier, sometimes the husband likes it too. It's one of the reasons the wife can buy a device called a "strap-on". If a married straight couple buys a "strap-on", many times, it's not the husband who is "using" it. Unless, you can say the way he's using it is the way she's "giving it" to him.

If you are married, sexual "adventure" is not only expected, it's recommended. Boredom is one of the main reasons, pardon the word, behind, "divorce".

You must remember, that's "different."

Isn't it still against the law in about a dozen states to engage in oral sex?

SEX

 

[Oscar Wao]

LOL, I'm sure other countries have antiquated, repressed laws themselves...

We're probably not the only guilty ones.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

SSM is immoral, against God's creation plan, and cannot be condoned by believers.

Riiight. And just why would a being with such a "plan" allow people that he "created" to be born homosexual, hmmm? Christianity today is total "wear my piousness on my sleeve" bullcrap. Very many of you guys don't even practice what you preach and very few of you know even basic geography and recorded history of your religion, which, IMO has become the bane of mankind.

Whew, that rant felt good. People should be allowed to officially spend their lives with whatever consenting adult that they choose. It is truly no one else's business.

 

[LuckyDan]

SSM is immoral, against God's creation plan, and cannot be condoned by believers.

Riiight. And just why would a being with such a "plan" allow people that he "created" to be born homosexual, hmmm? Christianity today is total "wear my piousness on my sleeve" bullcrap. Very many of you guys don't even practice what you preach and very few of you know even basic geography and recorded history of your religion, which, IMO has become the bane of mankind.

Whew, that rant felt good. People should be allowed to officially spend their lives with whatever consenting adult that they choose. It is truly no one else's business.

People are allowed to spend their lives with whatever consenting adult they choose, and it is no one else's business. Why do you need a piece of paper to make it official all the sudden?

 

[rdean]

SSM is immoral, against God's creation plan, and cannot be condoned by believers.

Riiight. And just why would a being with such a "plan" allow people that he "created" to be born homosexual, hmmm? Christianity today is total "wear my piousness on my sleeve" bullcrap. Very many of you guys don't even practice what you preach and very few of you know even basic geography and recorded history of your religion, which, IMO has become the bane of mankind.

Whew, that rant felt good. People should be allowed to officially spend their lives with whatever consenting adult that they choose. It is truly no one else's business.

People are allowed to spend their lives with whatever consenting adult they choose, and it is no one else's business. Why do you need a piece of paper to make it official all the sudden?

There was a time when children would inherit the debt of their parents. That means that if the parents were "indentured servants", the children could very well end up as being pretty much slaves.

There was a time when a man would die and others could take advantage of a grieving widow and trick her and their children out of the husband's money.

Of course, laws written in the late 1800's and early 1900's protect the family that these things aren't even an issue anymore. Many people don't understand that they were ever an issue because the laws have been in place for so long. These laws protecting families have been in place so long, they are considered a "right".

So, what are the difference between marriage and civil union. At last count, there are over a thousand. Here are a few:

1.Joint parental rights of children
2.Joint adoption
3.Status as "next-of-kin" for hospital visits and medical decisions
4.Right to make a decision about the disposal of loved ones remains
5.Immigration and residency for partners from other countries
6.Crime victims recovery benefits
7.Domestic violence protection orders
8.Judicial protections and immunity
9.Automatic inheritance in the absence of a will
10.Public safety officers death benefits
11.Spousal veterans benefits
12.Social Security
13.Medicare
14.Joint filing of tax returns
15.Wrongful death benefits for surviving partner and children
16.Bereavement or sick leave to care for partner or children
17.Child support
18.Joint Insurance Plans
19.Tax credits including: Child tax credit, Hope and lifetime learning credits
20.Deferred Compensation for pension and IRAs
21.Estate and gift tax benefits
22.Welfare and public assistance
23.Joint housing for elderly
24.Credit protection
25.Medical care for survivors and dependents of certain veterans

Legal Benefits of Marriage - What are the legal benefits of marriage

Then of course, you have the religious who have been indoctrinated into a culture of hatred for a couple of thousand years and they have been told so many times is "moral", they actually believe it.

If someone told you that those people should be put to death because you don't like who they love, you would think them deranged. Who they love is a reason for such hatred? Really? You can't be serious. Hate? Over who someone loves? Because a Bible written by primitive Middle Eastern desert people who didn't know to wash after wiping and believe that you should be put to death simply for wearing cotton and rayon at the same time and who believe eating shrimp and crab is an abomination told you who to hate and discriminate against?

Laws preventing gays from having equality isn't protecting "morality". They are there to protect the conservative religious "lack of morality". Conservatives just want someone they can point at and say, "We are better than them".

It's why, when you point out the endless and amazing contributions to society and our culture by the gays, and the lack of such contributions by the conservative right, the right goes ballistic. What it suggests is that their gawd favors the gays over them and they are jealous.

As far as the Bible being the "word of God", we know when it was written. We know by who. We know who translated it. We know which parts were "stolen" from other religions. Scholars who have studied the "history" of the Bible know there things. Most American Christians do not. And why should they? They actually believe "Noah's Ark" was a historical event. They really believe that, is if that children's fable were a true historical event. Talk about "deranged".

 

[Toro]

People are allowed to spend their lives with whatever consenting adult they choose, and it is no one else's business. Why do you need a piece of paper to make it official all the sudden?

Well, maybe we should get rid of heterosexual marriage then, too.